Who will be the next Prophet?

[chrisargyle18captain of 100]

Who will be the next Prophet? Just Wondering

[pjbrowniecaptain of 1,000]

It seems unlikely but I have an inkling it will be Boyd K Packer.

[chrisargyle18captain of 100]

Doesn't the church pick prophets on senority of service? if it is by seniority of service, will Boyd be pres.?

[mattctrcaptain of 100]

Doesn't the church pick prophets on senority of service? if it is by seniority of service, will Boyd be pres.?

Yes, the most senior (service not age) living apostle, who is the president of the 12, once the first presidency is disbanded following the death of the prophet, becomes the next president of the church. Currently, Elder Packer is the most senior apostle (president of the 12) and would become the next prophet, if he were to outlive President Monson, which may or may not be the case. Elder Perry and Elder Nelson are next in seniority.

[AngelPalmonicaptain of 100]

Christ will be, because the millenium will come before the end of Thomas S Monson... Or I guess Thomas S Monson will never Die, he will live to the age of a Tree and then be Twinkled... as will all of you.

[mattctrcaptain of 100]

Christ will be, because the millenium will come before the end of Thomas S Monson... Or I guess Thomas S Monson will never Die, he will live to the age of a Tree and then be Twinkled... as will all of you.

Pretty bold assertion. I cannot say whether it is right or wrong, but I can tell you feel very convinced of your timeline. My only concern, what if you're wrong? Do you give up and lose faith, or do you continue moving forward, awaiting the Savior's return? If you're right, great!

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

Well, Christ will be King, and He will certainly preside over the church as he does even now. But do we know during the millenium if there will still be a quorum of 12, Seventies etc, and if so, why not still a first Presidency who would of course be subject to the Lord - but that's not any different than now.

I may be wrong, but I think during the millenium we may learn to focus more on each becoming prophets within our own sphere.

[Songbirdcaptain of 1,000]

Doesn't the church pick prophets on senority of service? if it is by seniority of service, will Boyd be pres.?

Forgive me, but I would like to ask you to show respect for President Packer's leadership and position: Please refer to him as President Packer, not "Boyd".
Thank you

[chrisargyle18captain of 100]

Sorry songbird. I'm tired and I tried to shorten his name.Angel Palomni when do you think the millenium will start?

[Songbirdcaptain of 1,000]

Thanks...sorry you are tired...

[durangoutcaptain of 1,000]

Christ will be, because the millenium will come before the end of Thomas S Monson... Or I guess Thomas S Monson will never Die, he will live to the age of a Tree and then be Twinkled... as will all of you.

hmmmmm I'll just let that pass w/o comment.

AP: I do have a questions for you about ADA. Either I missed it or your scrolls say little to nothing about ADA. When do your scrolls say ADA will occur?

[AngelPalmonicaptain of 100]

Christ will be, because the millenium will come before the end of Thomas S Monson... Or I guess Thomas S Monson will never Die, he will live to the age of a Tree and then be Twinkled... as will all of you.

Pretty bold assertion. I cannot say whether it is right or wrong, but I can tell you feel very convinced of your timeline. My only concern, what if you're wrong? Do you give up and lose faith, or do you continue moving forward, awaiting the Savior's return? If you're right, great!

I hope I am wrong! Nope I have plans A to Z just in case it happens later or sooner. If nothing happens soon then I will probably start trying to work for the CES here in calgary or just keep working my way up in the Bank. I am pretty convinced as well. But it's never healthy to put all your heart into something because if nothing happens you are as good as dead anyways lol.

Cheers

[gkearneycaptain of 100]

I think it is worth to point out that the matter of secession to the Presidency in one of tradition and not written out practice, for example it is not found in the D&C. Now let's assume that nothing major happens, like the second coming of Christ, then following the traditional practice of the Church it would be President Packer. However President Packer's health is not good and it seems that he may pass away before President Monson. Then it would be Elder Perry and then Elder Nelson

Now let's indulge in a bit of speculation for a moment. Let's say the President of the 12 were to become mentally incapacitated in some way. Think of President Benson's condition late in his life as an example. Would, in such a case, the Presidency of the church fall to the President of the 12 or would it move on to the next senior apostle? Remember that our traditional practice is not codified in scripture.

[mattctrcaptain of 100]

I think it is worth to point out that the matter of secession to the Presidency in one of tradition and not written out practice, for example it is not found in the D&C. ...Would, in such a case, the Presidency of the church fall to the President of the 12 or would it move on to the next senior apostle? Remember that our traditional practice is not codified in scripture.

Worth consideration. I presume the unified voice of the quorum could make such a decision. Here's an interesting bit from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism on how the practice evolved (I've heard it said that "current practice dictates doctrine"):
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/President_of_the_Church

Instituted through revelation, the position or calling of President of the Church has developed together with the organization of the Church as a whole. Prior to the official organization of the church in 1830, Joseph Smith held the central leadership role as prophet of the restoration. In a revelation given on May 15, 1829, Joseph Smith was instructed that he and Oliver Cowdery should be ordained the first and second elders when the Church was formally organized (JS-H 1:72). This took place on April 6, 1830.

During the organizational meeting, Joseph Smith received a revelation in which he was given the titles of seer, translator, prophet, apostle of Jesus Christ, and elder of the Church of Jesus Christ. He was also told how to lay the foundation of the Church (D&C 21:1-2). Those present at the first meeting voted unanimously to accept Joseph Smith as first elder and prophet. At this meeting the fundamental precedent for Church government was established: Callings, including that of prophet, require that the mind and will of God be made manifest and that the will and consent of the people to abide by it be indicated through a sustaining vote (see Common Consent).

While the Church was in its early years, Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, and a small group of elders met quarterly and made basic policy decisions for the Church. In September 1830 the uniqueness of Joseph Smith's position in the Church was affirmed when Hiram Page, a member of the Church, claimed to have received revelations for the Church. Joseph Smith inquired of the Lord and received a clarifying revelation that he alone was to receive commandments and revelations for the entire Church (D&C 28:2, 11-14).

In January 1832, at a small conference of elders in Amherst, Ohio, Joseph Smith was sustained as President of the High Priesthood and ordained to that office by Sidney Rigdon. In March of that same year, the office of President of the Church was further elaborated by the announcement of the organization of a Presidency to consist of a President and counselors (D&C 81:1-3). On April 26, 1832, a general conference of the Church was held in Jackson County, Missouri, where Joseph Smith was sustained and acknowledged as President of the High Priesthood.

Presidents of the Church serve for life and are not released because of age or health. The authority to designate a successor after receiving revelation from the Lord, rests in the hands of the Twelve, who meet for that purpose after the death of the President. Once a new president has been designated and approved by the unanimous vote of the apostles, he selects his counselors, who are also sustained by the Twelve. These actions are then sustained by the Church membership at the next general conference.

The procedures of succession in the presidency have developed gradually since the organization of the Church. After the Prophet Joseph Smith was assassinated, some members thought his counselor, or even his son, should be his successor; but the Twelve knew that they held the keys and that the senior apostle should preside. Accordingly, Brigham Young, the president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, led the Church from that position for three and a half years until he was installed and sustained with counselors as a First Presidency. The next two Presidents were also ordained after about the same lapse of time; but since 1898 the succession process has been invoked without delay after the death of a President.

[tribraccaptain of 100]

Who sets apart the president of the Church? Who interviews him and issues the call? From whom does he recieve keys?

[Libertascaptain of 100]

Who sets apart the president of the Church? Who interviews him and issues the call? From whom does he recieve keys?

"Jesus Christ holds all the keys of the priesthood pertaining to His Church. He has conferred upon each of His Apostles all the keys that pertain to the kingdom of God on earth. The senior living Apostle, the President of the Church, is the only person on earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys (see D&C 43:1–4; 81:2; 107:64–67, 91–92; 132:7)." Handbook 2, section 2.1.1.

Upon ordination to the holy apostleship and membership in the quorum of the 12, an apostle is given all priesthood keys, but only the senior member, the president of the church, can exercise all the keys. The remaining apostles hold them in abeyance. Nowadays, the succession in the presidency goes something like this: the living apostles meet shortly after the death of the senior apostle under the direction of the senior apostle who is always the president of the quorum of the 12; the 2nd in seniority, nominates the most senior apostle to be president of the church and acts as voice in the setting apart. Because the Lord decides who lives or dies, He directly controls the process of who becomes the next president of the church.

[Nancaptain of 1,000]

And since they are told when they are made apostles that their setting apart isn't finished until Christ comes to them and lays his hands on them I suppose that is what happens to a new prophet too.

[sbsioncaptain of 1,000]

"....0ne mighty and strong..................."

[AussieOicaptain of 1,000]

Doesn't the church pick prophets on senority of service? if it is by seniority of service, will Boyd be pres.?

Forgive me, but I would like to ask you to show respect for President Packer's leadership and position: Please refer to him as President Packer, not "Boyd".
Thank you

well if you are going to be sanctimoneous about it I want YOU to include his first name AND initial (now that the church is a middle initial official kingdom)

Funny that one eh, Isaiah, Jeremiah, John, they all got ONE name, then Joseph Smith got 2, Brigham Young, Lorenzo Snow, they all got 2. And then the Americans had to go and give us the middle initial. Yes the middle initial. I dare any of you to call Gordon B Hinckley "President Gordon Hinckley". Or Boyd K Packer "President Boyd Packer"

You won't be able to do it I assure you. You can refer to him by just his NAME with Middle Initial alone, but even if you preface it with "President", if you drop the all powerful middle initial I bet you can't do it

Thus I question the assertion that we must be reminded that by using the middle initial we are showing respect for these great men.

I look forward to the day when the church drops the middle initial thing and joins the rest of the world.
George Dubya Bush
William Jefferson Clinton
Michael J Fox

UNless I am mistaking President Boyd Packer with the other President of the quorum of the 12 in the LDS Church President Boyd K Packer.

[iamse7encaptain of 1,000]

"....0ne mighty and strong..................."

Art Bulla? He'll have to shave that beard if he's going to be the next prophet.

[dewajackcaptain of 100]

I believe Nan is referring to the charge given the apostles by Oliver Cowdery.

[hedgehogcaptain of 100]

In modern tradition it has been the seniormost member but I distinctly recall it being not required. Also do the 12 have to be unanimous or only a majority have to support it? Remember the 12 hold all the keys and I believe the 70 also do. So even if all the 12 were instantly killed the 70 still collectively holds the authority to reorganize.

I received some interesting what I believe was revelation about the millennial structure of the 12 +first presidency. It seems so obvious once I started thinking about it. "My house is a house of order" It came to me while reading 3Nephi where the American 12 are chosen. I always found the wording curious. They are careful to say that those twelve do not supplant the 12 of Judah.

Ishmael was Ephraim. So when Lehi (Manasseh) sons married Ishmael s daughters they became Joseph of both Ephraim and Manasseh. Thus shouldn't all Lamanites be both Ephraim and Manasseh?

[reesecaptain of 1,000]

I received some interesting what I believe was revelation about the millennial structure of the 12 +first presidency. It seems so obvious once I started thinking about it. "My house is a house of order" It came to me while reading 3Nephi where the American 12 are chosen. I always found the wording curious. They are careful to say that those twelve do not supplant the 12 of Judah.Interesting that Christ called the 12 in America 'disciples' not apostles. They were also called disciples at the beginning of the restoration too, until someone changed it to apostles sometime in the 1900's.

Ishmael was Ephraim. So when Lehi (Manasseh) sons married Ishmael s daughters they became Joseph of both Ephraim and Manasseh. Thus shouldn't all Lamanites be both Ephraim and Manasseh?This can put an interesting new dimesion to the prophesies about Ephraim crowning the house of Israel with blessings. It could actually be accomplished by "the remnant", that makes us "gentiles" a bit more unecessary than we like to think we are. It makes sense as it will be the remnant building New Jerusalem, with us gentiles that repent assiting them.

[reesecaptain of 1,000]

Doesn't the church pick prophets on senority of service? if it is by seniority of service, will Boyd be pres.?

Forgive me, but I would like to ask you to show respect for President Packer's leadership and position: Please refer to him as President Packer, not "Boyd".
Thank you

well if you are going to be sanctimoneous about it I want YOU to include his first name AND initial (now that the church is a middle initial official kingdom)

Funny that one eh, Isaiah, Jeremiah, John, they all got ONE name, then Joseph Smith got 2, Brigham Young, Lorenzo Snow, they all got 2. And then the Americans had to go and give us the middle initial. Yes the middle initial. I dare any of you to call Gordon B Hinckley "President Gordon Hinckley". Or Boyd K Packer "President Boyd Packer"

You won't be able to do it I assure you. You can refer to him by just his NAME with Middle Initial alone, but even if you preface it with "President", if you drop the all powerful middle initial I bet you can't do it

Thus I question the assertion that we must be reminded that by using the middle initial we are showing respect for these great men.

I look forward to the day when the church drops the middle initial thing and joins the rest of the world.
George Dubya Bush
William Jefferson Clinton
Michael J Fox

UNless I am mistaking President Boyd Packer with the other President of the quorum of the 12 in the LDS Church President Boyd K Packer.

Personally I wish we were in the day of "Brother Joseph". It would make it a lot easier to remember that these men are just men, like everybody else.

[hedgehogcaptain of 100]

This can put an interesting new dimension to the prophesies about Ephraim crowning the house of Israel with blessings. It could actually be accomplished by "the remnant", that makes us "gentiles" a bit more unecessary than we like to think we are. It makes sense as it will be the remnant building New Jerusalem, with us gentiles that repent assiting them.

That was one of my primary lines of thinking also when I read about Ishmael being Ephraim. Unless Mothers tribe doesn't matter then we euro-peons are technically redundant to the prophecies.

[reesecaptain of 1,000]

This can put an interesting new dimension to the prophesies about Ephraim crowning the house of Israel with blessings. It could actually be accomplished by "the remnant", that makes us "gentiles" a bit more unecessary than we like to think we are. It makes sense as it will be the remnant building New Jerusalem, with us gentiles that repent assiting them.

That was one of my primary lines of thinking also when I read about Ishmael being Ephraim. Unless Mothers tribe doesn't matter then we euro-peons are technically redundant to the prophecies.

Try announcing that in sacrament meeting next week. Won't go over well. I had a discussion a few days ago with a friend. He was insistant that we "the church members, the covenant people, the house of Israel, the strongest and most worthy spirits", are not called "gentiles"(oh the shame!) in the B of M, and WE are the ones who will build New Jerusalem. I proceeded to show him several scriptures in the B of M that show that we are indeed idenified as the gentiles, and that WE will ASSIST the remnant when they build New Jerusalem, if we repent in time!

He quit arguing, but he was still skeptical. Why are the chains of false traditions so difficult to break free of?!

[Libertascaptain of 100]

In modern tradition it has been the seniormost member but I distinctly recall it being not required. Also do the 12 have to be unanimous or only a majority have to support it? Remember the 12 hold all the keys and I believe the 70 also do. So even if all the 12 were instantly killed the 70 still collectively holds the authority to reorganize.

The principles of succession in the presidency have developed over the years, but the senior apostle has always been the president of the church. The seventies have no keys, except for limited keys held by the presidency of the seventy to preside over the quorums of the seventy. In the unlikely event that multiple apostles were killed, there would have to be at least one apostle left to reorganize otherwise the keys would have to be reconferred by angelic keyholders.

"Seventies act by assignment and by the delegation of authority from the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Area Presidents are assigned to administer areas under the authorization of the First Presidency and the Twelve. The Presidency of the Seventy are set apart and are given the keys to preside over the Quorums of Seventy.

"The President of the Church delegates priesthood keys to other priesthood leaders so they can preside in their areas of responsibility. Priesthood keys are bestowed on presidents of temples, missions, stakes, and districts; bishops; branch presidents; and quorum presidents. This presiding authority is valid only for the designated responsibilities and within the geographic jurisdiction of each leader’s calling. When priesthood leaders are released from their callings, they no longer hold the associated keys." from section 2.1.1 of the recently revised Handbook 2.

[Stella Solariscaptain of 1,000]

Funny that one eh, Isaiah, Jeremiah, John, they all got ONE name, then Joseph Smith got 2, Brigham Young, Lorenzo Snow, they all got 2. And then the Americans had to go and give us the middle initial.

Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and Lorenzo Snow were just as "American" as Gordon B. Hinckley, Thomas S. Monson, et al. - nationality had nothing to do with using a middle initial. The first latter-day prophet to use his middle initial was Joseph F. Smith in 1901 - which he most likely did to avoid any confusion with Joseph Smith, Jr. - makes sense. Then after Joseph F. Smith, all the prophets have either used their middle initial or middle name spelled out (as in George Albert Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, Ezra Taft Benson).

Reese said - Personally I wish we were in the day of "Brother Joseph". It would make it a lot easier to remember that these men are just men, like everybody else.

Agreed. And on a more local level - in our ward, "position worship" has gotten so bad - the Bishop, and others, insist on calling everyone by the title of their church position, as in 'President So'n'so' (whether they're the RS pres. EQ pres. SS pres. etc...), 'Executive Secretary So'n'so' for the ward exec. sec't, etc.. etc... instead of just referring to people as 'Brother or Sister So'n'so'. It's absurd.

[hedgehogcaptain of 100]

@Libertas, I really like it when someone can point to something wrong and set me straight, if however 2 seconds on google either support me or make it clear that it is not definitive then I really dont appreciate people telling me I am outright wrong.

I am unaware of any statements ever that state that if the 12 were removed the seventy would be helpless and that only Angelic ministers could restore the twelve. I may not have worded myself real well, did not realize it was a controversial issue. Here is just 3 statements from the first page of google, feel free to search further.

http://www.fact-index.com/p/pr/priestho ... aint_.html

"The First Quorum of the Seventy was set up February 28, 1835, (Documentary History of the Church 2:201-2) and these quorums are equal in authority to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in absentia. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventy_%2 ... _Saints%29

As a body, the seventy in the LDS Church are considered to be equal in priesthood authority with the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. This presumably means that if the apostles were killed or incapacitated, the seventy could take over the function of the apostles. However, in such circumstances, the seventy would be required to act unanimously.[5]

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Journal_o ... Priesthood

Twelve were called and ordained, they possessed the same power and authority as the three First Presidents; and in reading further you find that there must needs be appendages and helps growing out of this Priesthood. The Seventies possess the same power and authority; they hold the keys of establishing, building up, regulating, ordaining, and setting in order the kingdom of God in all its perfections upon the earth.

[hedgehogcaptain of 100]

You know what I think some of you may like... Some years ago now I was thinking about this very thing and started looking up the dates of the ordinations of the 12 and thus made a list. Its dated now but I think that's even more interesting to see how things would have been different. Alternate futures so to speak. ie. President Tanner

* President Boyd K. Packer - (ordained Apostle 1970) Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve since 1994
* Elder L. Tom Perry (ordained 1974)
* Elder Russell M. Nelson (1984)
* Elder Dallin H. Oaks (1984)
* Elder M. Russell Ballard (1985)
* Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin (1986)
* Elder Richard G. Scott (1988)
* Elder Robert D. Hales (1994)
* Elder Jeffrey R. Holland (1994)
* Elder Henry B. Eyring (1995)
* Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf (2004)
* Elder David A. Bednar (2004)


-----------------------------------------------
Here is my even older list

# Howard W. Hunter (October 15, 1959) November 14, 1907
# Gordon B. Hinckley (October 5, 1961) June 23, 1910
# N. Eldon Tanner (October 11, 1962) 9 May 1898
# Thomas S. Monson (October 10, 1963) 21 August 1927
# Boyd K. Packer (April 9, 1970) 10 September 1924
# Marvin J. Ashton (December 2, 1971) 6 May 1915
# Bruce R. McConkie (October 12, 1972) 29 July 1915
# L. Tom Perry (April 11, 1974) August 5, 1922
# David B. Haight (January 8, 1976) September 2, 1906
# James E. Faust (October 1, 1978) July 21, 1920
# Neal A. Maxwell (July 23, 1981) 6 July 1926
# Russell M. Nelson (April 7, 1984)
# Dallin H. Oaks (May 3, 1984) August 12, 1932.
# M. Russell Ballard (October 10, 1985)
# Joseph B. Wirthlin (October 9, 1986) 8 October 1928
# Richard G. Scott (October 6, 1988) 7 November 1928
# Robert D. Hales (April 7, 1994) 24 August 1932
# Jeffrey R. Holland (June 23, 1994) 3 December 1940
# Henry B. Eyring (April 6, 1995) 31 May 1933
# Dieter F. Uchtdorf (October 7, 2004)
# David A. Bednar (October 7, 2004) 15 June 1952

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