Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

[harakim]

Thanks for bumping this thread, Dr. Jones. It's the first time for me to see it, too. I see that the original poster hasn't been on LDSFF for over a year.

The links provided still worked and the organization mentioned here is having another Homestead Fair over the Thanksgiving Weekend 2017 in Waco, Texas. (Yes, that's where the Branch Davidians were murdered by Janet Reno and Eric Holder.) Not too far from where I live...anybody wanna meet up assuming the end of the world doesn't happen before then?

Dr. Jones, I'm currently reading Richard Bushman's Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling. On pages 219-222, Bushman describes the prophet's plans for cities. Joseph want them to stay small and to each become a City of Zion with a public square in the center of town and a temple in the square. Farmers would live in town (because the towns were small enough to get to the farms immediately). Interesting reading.

A tempting offer

[oxbloodangel]

From what I have seen as we've built a new commonwealth school with a focus on community (a la The Abundant Community), even the small towns in Utah are not ready for these types of Zion-building exercises. Through our Hometown Heroes Project, we try to bring together craftsman and mentees, homesteaders and mentees, musicians and mentees, but few people around here are even interested in these free events. We've had master wood-workers, instrument-makers, farmers, photographers, herbalists, and a few scientists featured at our local, free events, and the number of people from the community who come can be counted on one hand. Our board has discussed many times why more LDS people in our little town (seriously little town) don't make the time to come to something so cool when they don't even have to fork over any money for it, and the answers seem to be rooted in the problems McKnight and Block discuss in the book The Abundant Community. A reliance on big, impersonal systems, an investment in the rat race, a struggle just to survive in the standard of living they believe they should be maintaining. Our townsfolk who public school their children are bussing them two towns over for school. All the family activity revolves around the sports and academic clubs offered there, and anything outside of that is basically ignored. Personally, I think it's very sad. Our towns are separated by natural features like mountains and rivers, and when it all goes south, the people in my own ward who should be my tightest community won't even know how to work together because so much of their relationship investments have been placed elsewhere. I am willing to bet this is true everywhere, outside of religious communal societies like what this town used to be. My sister and I felt called to try to re-establish here some of that Zion our ancestors were sent here by Brigham Young to establish. It's actually part of our mission statement to create a Zion society among us in preparation for Christ's return. We've only been operating for a year and we don't even have a building yet, so perhaps that mission will still be fulfilled in the future, but it's hard work operating a school and communitt outreach program with so few volunteers and a world that seems largely apathetic to the ideals of "intentional community" or even "building Zion where you are."

[harakim]

From what I have seen as we've built a new commonwealth school with a focus on community (a la The Abundant Community), even the small towns in Utah are not ready for these types of Zion-building exercises. Through our Hometown Heroes Project, we try to bring together craftsman and mentees, homesteaders and mentees, musicians and mentees, but few people around here are even interested in these free events. We've had master wood-workers, instrument-makers, farmers, photographers, herbalists, and a few scientists featured at our local, free events, and the number of people from the community who come can be counted on one hand. Our board has discussed many times why more LDS people in our little town (seriously little town) don't make the time to come to something so cool when they don't even have to fork over any money for it, and the answers seem to be rooted in the problems McKnight and Block discuss in the book The Abundant Community. A reliance on big, impersonal systems, an investment in the rat race, a struggle just to survive in the standard of living they believe they should be maintaining. Our townsfolk who public school their children are bussing them two towns over for school. All the family activity revolves around the sports and academic clubs offered there, and anything outside of that is basically ignored. Personally, I think it's very sad. Our towns are separated by natural features like mountains and rivers, and when it all goes south, the people in my own ward who should be my tightest community won't even know how to work together because so much of their relationship investments have been placed elsewhere. I am willing to bet this is true everywhere, outside of religious communal societies like what this town used to be. My sister and I felt called to try to re-establish here some of that Zion our ancestors were sent here by Brigham Young to establish. It's actually part of our mission statement to create a Zion society among us in preparation for Christ's return. We've only been operating for a year and we don't even have a building yet, so perhaps that mission will still be fulfilled in the future, but it's hard work operating a school and communitt outreach program with so few volunteers and a world that seems largely apathetic to the ideals of "intentional community" or even "building Zion where you are."

Vaguely, where are you from?

[oxbloodangel]

Southern Utah

[AI2.0]

FYI, Here's another thread which was started a couple of years ago on the forum about these communities;
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=39473

I can see how members would be interested in these communities, but personally, I'm not unless it was promoted or encouraged by our church leadership.

[Michelle]

From what I have seen as we've built a new commonwealth school with a focus on community (a la The Abundant Community), even the small towns in Utah are not ready for these types of Zion-building exercises. Through our Hometown Heroes Project, we try to bring together craftsman and mentees, homesteaders and mentees, musicians and mentees, but few people around here are even interested in these free events. We've had master wood-workers, instrument-makers, farmers, photographers, herbalists, and a few scientists featured at our local, free events, and the number of people from the community who come can be counted on one hand. Our board has discussed many times why more LDS people in our little town (seriously little town) don't make the time to come to something so cool when they don't even have to fork over any money for it, and the answers seem to be rooted in the problems McKnight and Block discuss in the book The Abundant Community. A reliance on big, impersonal systems, an investment in the rat race, a struggle just to survive in the standard of living they believe they should be maintaining. Our townsfolk who public school their children are bussing them two towns over for school. All the family activity revolves around the sports and academic clubs offered there, and anything outside of that is basically ignored. Personally, I think it's very sad. Our towns are separated by natural features like mountains and rivers, and when it all goes south, the people in my own ward who should be my tightest community won't even know how to work together because so much of their relationship investments have been placed elsewhere. I am willing to bet this is true everywhere, outside of religious communal societies like what this town used to be. My sister and I felt called to try to re-establish here some of that Zion our ancestors were sent here by Brigham Young to establish. It's actually part of our mission statement to create a Zion society among us in preparation for Christ's return. We've only been operating for a year and we don't even have a building yet, so perhaps that mission will still be fulfilled in the future, but it's hard work operating a school and communitt outreach program with so few volunteers and a world that seems largely apathetic to the ideals of "intentional community" or even "building Zion where you are."

I think the problem is that some of us are spiritually ready to build these Zion communities, but we are currently separated by location, skill level, finding each other and even spouse readiness.

I have friends at all levels of readiness, but some are waiting for a call out instead of just taking action.

Even with what I do and have learned I feel unprepared: homeschool, homebirth, chickens, fruit trees, gardening, soap making. I know this isn't unknowable or undoable,all our ancestors did it.

I think that is the key. What did our ancestors really do? I love the church's teachings on family history. I have Mayflower and pioneer ancestors. In both instances they gave up comfort, there own gardens of Eden to draw closer to God. I've only known their stories a few years, but I have known for many years I wasn't born for this world. Since I was a kid I have dreamed of a simpler agricultural life. I believe this is where I will live someday, it is the world I came to build.

I had planned on visiting Homestead Heritage in March,but 3 days before leaving my Grandmother was ill and we changed plans to visit here before she passed. I would love to meet people there at the Nov. activities. I am not sure how feasible it will be, I am due with my 7th baby in December, but I would love to try.

[BeNotDeceived]

Thanks for bumping this thread, Dr. Jones. It's the first time for me to see it, too. I see that the original poster hasn't been on LDSFF for over a year.

The links provided still worked and the organization mentioned here is having another Homestead Fair over the Thanksgiving Weekend 2017 in Waco, Texas. (Yes, that's where the Branch Davidians were murdered by Janet Reno and Eric Holder.) Not too far from where I live...anybody wanna meet up assuming the end of the world doesn't happen before then?

Dr. Jones, I'm currently reading Richard Bushman's Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling. On pages 219-222, Bushman describes the prophet's plans for cities. Joseph want them to stay small and to each become a City of Zion with a public square in the center of town and a temple in the square. Farmers would live in town (because the towns were small enough to get to the farms immediately). Interesting reading.

Dearly departed

Search keyword “bumping” brung me here. Once a bird bumped the ground, so I thunk to bump a thread. Been bumps a plenty the last while which may correlate with intentional communities. RELi is one keyword to search should you choose to discover further details.

Chandelier Craven were a pair of keywords that failed to find results stored in my personal memory banks. While concerning that Ancestry’s newspaper.com didn’t find a thing, even more concerning is it fails to find my dads obituary; familysearch.org still shows him alive, and many other omissions are of concern. We’re all failing to do what needs to be done, and I’m off to hopefully correct areas where myself heretofore am deficient. OP, over and out.

[tmac]

I'm back, to some extent, and based on recent interest in another thread, it may be useful to bump this one.

The only additional thing I'll note is that, unlike the sentiments of some expressed on this thread, although I am still a member in good standing, what the past 10 years has taught me is that, while, as a general rule TCJCLDS and its members have embraced worldliness and materialism more than ever, some other Christian groups have done more with less, and have done a much better job resisting that temptation. Consequently, at this point, I put little faith, hope, stock or confidence in TCJCLDS or its general membership on this front. As far as I am concerned these are completely lost ways in current LDS culture and society -- which means at this point we'll need to look elsewhere for that kind of knowledge, direction, skillset, and cooperative spirit, etc.

[Cruiserdude]

I'm back, to some extent, and based on recent interest in another thread, it may be useful to bump this one.

The only additional think I'll note is that, unlike the sentiments of some expressed on this thread, although I am still a member in good standing, what the past 10 years has taught me is that, while, as a general rule TCJCLDS and its members have embraced worldliness and materialism more than ever, other Christian groups have done more with less, and have done a much better job resisting that temptation. Consequently, at this point, I put little faith, hope, stock or confidence in TCJCLDS or its general membership on this front. As far as I am concerned these are completely lost ways in current LDS culture and society -- which means at this point we'll need to look elsewhere for that kind of knowledge, direction, and cooperative spirit, etc.

Do you know of any groups like that heritage one, or even if it's smaller, here in Utah that may not be completely successful, but that the group at least desires that lifestyle?
I can't find squat online but I know a lot of that stuff is done on the facebooks group stuff now and I don't have a facebooks.

[tmac]

As someone mentioned somewhere, there is a small group at The Rock, in San Juan County. And there is a much older group at Eskdale, affiliated with what is known as the Order of Aaron. It is group that has had ups and downs, etc., but has survived, and even thrived, for decades, perhaps even 100 years now.

You may find some more information and answers here:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8767

[technomagus]

Riverbed Ranch in Juab County is doing this. I've visited there and they do have a very compelling story. The only problem I have with it is the location is not one I would pick. I just wish they had other such co-ops in other locations.
The upsides: lots of people all building a tiny town with little enterprises, shared common lands to use, shared facilities, cooperative neighbors to help build...
The down sides: 40 miles of dirt road through the UT desert to get there. After driving an hour from the nearest town. That's pretty rough on vehicles and perhaps dangerous in the winter. No internet. (though Starlink is fixing that). It'd dry, windy UT desert county.
This should be replicated in the Ozarks and Idaho and everywhere. How do we?
https://www.facebook.com/AcademyofSelfReliance/

[Niemand]

Three that spring to mind are the Bruderhof and the Kibbutzim in Israel. Very different. The first group is pacifist and Christian, the second armed to the teeth and Jewish.

[tmac]

A group that seems to fly completely under the radar, and very few know much about them -- unless you happen to live or travel in close proximity to their colonies are the Hutterites. They have extensive and growing, literal Law of Consecration type intentional communities in Wyoming, Montana, and through-out the Prairie Provinces of Canada. In fact, they have been so successful and are so competitive, agriculturally, that other agricultural interests in Montana were putting pressure on the state legislature to pass laws to start trying to rein them in, because they are able to out-compete just about everyone else for land, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterites

The idea that Mormons tried the Law of Consecration and failed, and so has everyone else (failed) is purely a Mormon myth. There are other very successful and long-lasting examples of actual application of LoC principles -- just not among Mormons.

[Niemand]

A group that seems to fly completely under the radar, and very few know much about them -- unless you happen to live or travel in close proximity to their colonies are the Hutterites.

The Hutterites are interconnected with the Bruderhof, which I just mentioned. A complex connection in fact.

Some of it is detailed here:
https://peacefulsocieties.uncg.edu/2006 ... -explored/

While forum members may differ from these groups on some matters, I thought the discussion of the two groups in this article worth quoting... and some of these differing attitudes are probably worth thinking about.

Comparing the two groups, he indicates that the Bruderhof members are quite courteous and controlled. They tend to speak carefully and thoughtfully, and are often very serious in their relationships, while the Hutterites tend to be more blunt. The Hutterites have no problem gossiping about one another, both positively and negatively, while the Bruderhof members firmly believe, in the words of one of their documents, that “there must never be talk, either in open remarks or by insinuation, against a brother or sister …” (p.532).

Another striking difference is that the Bruderhof members see work as a form of worship, while the Hutterites see work as “simply a way to put bread on the table.” The latter don’t resent working, but, according to Janzen, “they simply do not associate the construction of a new hog barn with the worship of God.” (p.533).

The two groups also view education differently. The Hutterites minimize formal education for their young people, except that the Schmiedeleut has recently showed interest in training their own schoolteachers; but otherwise the Hutterites are happy to rely on outside professionals when they need them. In contrast, the Bruderhof encourage their young people to achieve a higher education, and their communities now include dentists and lawyers who were born in a hof.

[tmac]

Here's the chance:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/67615290

[JuneBug12000]

Here's the chance:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/67615290

That is awesome tmac! If I wasn't here, I would be there.

I hope you find the right people.

[tmac]

Here's the chance:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/67615290

That is awesome tmac! If I wasn't here, I would be there.

I hope you find the right people.

I've learned some interesting things in this process.

The first is that there are very, very few mainstream Mormons (TBMs?) with a productive and reproductive orientation anymore, and almost none that have any interest in production agriculture and/or an agrarian lifestyle. Of the younger generations, interest in that stuff can virtually not be found on the radar screens of Mormon millenials, etc.

I had already connected the dots on all that, so I thought that there might be more fertile ground in that regard reaching out to fundamentalists, with whom I have more exposure and background than most. And I've learned some very interesting things there as well, including the fact that Warren Jeffs issued an edict 10-12 years ago that faithful members of the FLDS Church were supposed to abstain from any and all sexual activity, and completely abstain from procreation and having children. Consequently, at least that branch of fundamentalists are completely unreproductive at this point.

In this process, I have run across whole families of faithful adult FLDS siblings in the 20-35 age range, who are all celibate and live and work together in an intentional agrarian community that is essentially like a celibate monastery. It is very interesting, and very disheartening.

The world is really screwed up right now -- on almost every front.

[mudflap]

Here's the chance:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/67615290

That is awesome tmac! If I wasn't here, I would be there.

I hope you find the right people.

I've learned some interesting things in this process.

The first is that there are very, very few mainstream Mormons (TBMs?) with a productive and reproductive orientation anymore, and almost none that have any interest in production agriculture and/or an agrarian lifestyle. Of the younger generations, interest in that stuff can virtually not be found on the radar screens of Mormon millenials, etc.

I had already connected the dots on all that, so I thought that there might be more fertile ground in that regard reaching out to fundamentalists, with whom I have more exposure and background than most. And I've learned some very interesting things there as well, including the fact that Warren Jeffs issued an edict 10-12 years ago that faithful members of the FLDS Church were supposed to abstain from any and all sexual activity, and completely abstain from procreation and having children. Consequently, at least that branch of fundamentalists are completely unreproductive at this point.

In this process, I have run across whole families of faithful FLDS siblings in the 20-35 range, who are all celibate and live and work together in an intentional agrarian community that is essentially like a celibate monastery. It is very interesting, and very disheartening.

The world is really screwed up right now -- on almost every front.

I sincerely wish you the best on this. I cannot believe nobody near there is jumping for this chance at an agrarian lifestyle. I feel like my whole life has been an attempt to get out of the city. Caught the bug at probably age 5, visiting my great aunt's 150 acre ranch in N. CA. Grew up, wanted to get a job as a forest ranger, till I figured out how woke you have to be to work for the Gov. Ex wife wanted to live "in the heart of it all", but somehow I managed to convince her to let me buy a 20 acre parcel with a cabin on it in Paris Idaho. Tried to convince her we should farm it and move there, but she loved city life too much. eventually had to sell my dream after the divorce.

Also taught me that you can't effectively run 2 homes and have a full-time J.O.B. (Just Over Broke). You either live the rural life (and deal with being poor and far away from things and learn how to take care of yourself), or you merely dabble in it on the weekends - "a gentleman farmer", i.e. "Glenn Beck", who owns a ranch, but hires people to run it for him. He's simply "playing rancher". If you spend your life in the city, trying to make enough money to escape, by the time you make enough money, you'll be too old and tired to work the land you could buy with the money. It's a death cycle, or slavery, or maybe both. But ahhhh! the things you can buy in this world with money!

I want none of that - well, I wouldn't mind a thousand acres, but I'm content with the land the Lord blessed me and my wife with. It's been whispered to both of us that riches await us. It's been confirmed that this piece of land is the right piece of land for us at this time, and we'll be blessed there. Meanwhile, my current J.O.B. is extremely easy to work with, and supplies 100% of the funds it takes to build this cabin. But I'm not above quitting if they, say....started requiring a vaccine to keep my J.O.B.. Wife is 100% behind me on this. She likes her shoes, but she knows how to live poor, too. With my "skills" (earned the hard way: through work and struggling), we should be able to survive.

Now, living in AL, feel like I have a second chance at rural life, and I'm taking my best shot at it with the debt-free cabin.

I'm starting to wonder.....can all these agrarian lifestyle farms connect economically somehow? It seems like if enough of them banded together with trade agreements (I'm serious), we could enable more folks to escape the current 9-5 slavery.

I would guess that location is a major limiting factor for most folks.

[tmac]

Here's the chance:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/67615290

That is awesome tmac! If I wasn't here, I would be there.

I hope you find the right people.

I've learned some interesting things in this process.

The first is that there are very, very few mainstream Mormons (TBMs?) with a productive and reproductive orientation anymore, and almost none that have any interest in production agriculture and/or an agrarian lifestyle. Of the younger generations, interest in that stuff can virtually not be found on the radar screens of Mormon millenials, etc.

I had already connected the dots on all that, so I thought that there might be more fertile ground in that regard reaching out to fundamentalists, with whom I have more exposure and background than most. And I've learned some very interesting things there as well, including the fact that Warren Jeffs issued an edict 10-12 years ago that faithful members of the FLDS Church were supposed to abstain from any and all sexual activity, and completely abstain from procreation and having children. Consequently, at least that branch of fundamentalists are completely unreproductive at this point.

In this process, I have run across whole families of faithful FLDS siblings in the 20-35 range, who are all celibate and live and work together in an intentional agrarian community that is essentially like a celibate monastery. It is very interesting, and very disheartening.

The world is really screwed up right now -- on almost every front.

I sincerely wish you the best on this. I cannot believe nobody near there is jumping for this chance at an agrarian lifestyle. I feel like my whole life has been an attempt to get out of the city. Caught the bug at probably age 5, visiting my great aunt's 150 acre ranch in N. CA. Grew up, wanted to get a job as a forest ranger, till I figured out how woke you have to be to work for the Gov. Ex wife wanted to live "in the heart of it all", but somehow I managed to convince her to let me buy a 20 acre parcel with a cabin on it in Paris Idaho. Tried to convince her we should farm it and move there, but she loved city life too much. eventually had to sell my dream after the divorce.

Also taught me that you can't effectively run 2 homes and have a full-time J.O.B. (Just Over Broke). You either live the rural life (and deal with being poor and far away from things and learn how to take care of yourself), or you merely dabble in it on the weekends - "a gentleman farmer", i.e. "Glenn Beck", who owns a ranch, but hires people to run it for him. He's simply "playing rancher". If you spend your life in the city, trying to make enough money to escape, by the time you make enough money, you'll be too old and tired to work the land you could buy with the money. It's a death cycle, or slavery, or maybe both. But ahhhh! the things you can buy in this world with money!

I want none of that - well, I wouldn't mind a thousand acres, but I'm content with the land the Lord blessed me and my wife with. It's been whispered to both of us that riches await us. It's been confirmed that this piece of land is the right piece of land for us at this time, and we'll be blessed there. Meanwhile, my current J.O.B. is extremely easy to work with, and supplies 100% of the funds it takes to build this cabin. But I'm not above quitting if they, say....started requiring a vaccine to keep my J.O.B.. Wife is 100% behind me on this. She likes her shoes, but she knows how to live poor, too. With my "skills" (earned the hard way: through work and struggling), we should be able to survive.

Now, living in AL, feel like I have a second chance at rural life, and I'm taking my best shot at it with the debt-free cabin.

I'm starting to wonder.....can all these agrarian lifestyle farms connect economically somehow? It seems like if enough of them banded together with trade agreements (I'm serious), we could enable more folks to escape the current 9-5 slavery.

I would guess that location is a major limiting factor for most folks.

The biggest limiting factor is that at this point there just aren't enough people who care and/or have a clue what to do about it.

[JuneBug12000]

Here's the chance:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/67615290

That is awesome tmac! If I wasn't here, I would be there.

I hope you find the right people.

I've learned some interesting things in this process.

The first is that there are very, very few mainstream Mormons (TBMs?) with a productive and reproductive orientation anymore, and almost none that have any interest in production agriculture and/or an agrarian lifestyle. Of the younger generations, interest in that stuff can virtually not be found on the radar screens of Mormon millenials, etc.

I had already connected the dots on all that, so I thought that there might be more fertile ground in that regard reaching out to fundamentalists, with whom I have more exposure and background than most. And I've learned some very interesting things there as well, including the fact that Warren Jeffs issued an edict 10-12 years ago that faithful members of the FLDS Church were supposed to abstain from any and all sexual activity, and completely abstain from procreation and having children. Consequently, at least that branch of fundamentalists are completely unreproductive at this point.

In this process, I have run across whole families of faithful adult FLDS siblings in the 20-35 age range, who are all celibate and live and work together in an intentional agrarian community that is essentially like a celibate monastery. It is very interesting, and very disheartening.

The world is really screwed up right now -- on almost every front.

Yup.

I use to encourage people to have kids, but they just get offended when I quote the scriptures, prophets and Proclamation.

So finally I just started telling them: "You don't have to have kids, but this is what is coming because no one is." It isn't a pretty picture.

Those who do have children, and all they they are suppose to, will find spiritual and temporal salvation in their choice. Those who don't, well, we all have to die sometimes, I suppose.

As for the agrarian lifestyle, I couldn't agree more. God gave Adam and Eve three commandments He never revoked: multiply and replenish, till the earth, tend the animals. People don't seem to understand that these are foundational lessons we are to learn in mortality and they may be surprised to find these matter at the "final exam."

I know this seems a frustrating process, but I do believe if are patient and have faith, the right people will slowly find their way to you. Don't give up tmac!

[mudflap]

not to bag on the church some more, but all they've been preaching - career-wise, anyway - is to get as much education as you can, which everyone interprets as "go to college and become a lawyer", so that's what the herd is doing.

Meanwhile, their kids think milk comes from a carton.

[tmac]

not to bag on the church some more, but all they've been preaching - career-wise, anyway - is to get as much education as you can, which everyone interprets as "go to college and become a lawyer", so that's what the herd is doing.

Meanwhile, their kids think milk comes from a carton.

I don't think I could say it any better.

Even here on LDSFF, what are there, maybe a half dozen or so people, who share any contrary paradigm (to the mainstream) on this issue?

[JuneBug12000]

not to bag on the church some more, but all they've been preaching - career-wise, anyway - is to get as much education as you can, which everyone interprets as "go to college and become a lawyer", so that's what the herd is doing.

Meanwhile, their kids think milk comes from a carton.

Or worse, that milk is bad.

[mudflap]

That is awesome tmac! If I wasn't here, I would be there.

I hope you find the right people.

I've learned some interesting things in this process.

The first is that there are very, very few mainstream Mormons (TBMs?) with a productive and reproductive orientation anymore, and almost none that have any interest in production agriculture and/or an agrarian lifestyle. Of the younger generations, interest in that stuff can virtually not be found on the radar screens of Mormon millenials, etc.

I had already connected the dots on all that, so I thought that there might be more fertile ground in that regard reaching out to fundamentalists, with whom I have more exposure and background than most. And I've learned some very interesting things there as well, including the fact that Warren Jeffs issued an edict 10-12 years ago that faithful members of the FLDS Church were supposed to abstain from any and all sexual activity, and completely abstain from procreation and having children. Consequently, at least that branch of fundamentalists are completely unreproductive at this point.

In this process, I have run across whole families of faithful FLDS siblings in the 20-35 range, who are all celibate and live and work together in an intentional agrarian community that is essentially like a celibate monastery. It is very interesting, and very disheartening.

The world is really screwed up right now -- on almost every front.

I sincerely wish you the best on this. I cannot believe nobody near there is jumping for this chance at an agrarian lifestyle. I feel like my whole life has been an attempt to get out of the city. Caught the bug at probably age 5, visiting my great aunt's 150 acre ranch in N. CA. Grew up, wanted to get a job as a forest ranger, till I figured out how woke you have to be to work for the Gov. Ex wife wanted to live "in the heart of it all", but somehow I managed to convince her to let me buy a 20 acre parcel with a cabin on it in Paris Idaho. Tried to convince her we should farm it and move there, but she loved city life too much. eventually had to sell my dream after the divorce.

Also taught me that you can't effectively run 2 homes and have a full-time J.O.B. (Just Over Broke). You either live the rural life (and deal with being poor and far away from things and learn how to take care of yourself), or you merely dabble in it on the weekends - "a gentleman farmer", i.e. "Glenn Beck", who owns a ranch, but hires people to run it for him. He's simply "playing rancher". If you spend your life in the city, trying to make enough money to escape, by the time you make enough money, you'll be too old and tired to work the land you could buy with the money. It's a death cycle, or slavery, or maybe both. But ahhhh! the things you can buy in this world with money!

I want none of that - well, I wouldn't mind a thousand acres, but I'm content with the land the Lord blessed me and my wife with. It's been whispered to both of us that riches await us. It's been confirmed that this piece of land is the right piece of land for us at this time, and we'll be blessed there. Meanwhile, my current J.O.B. is extremely easy to work with, and supplies 100% of the funds it takes to build this cabin. But I'm not above quitting if they, say....started requiring a vaccine to keep my J.O.B.. Wife is 100% behind me on this. She likes her shoes, but she knows how to live poor, too. With my "skills" (earned the hard way: through work and struggling), we should be able to survive.

Now, living in AL, feel like I have a second chance at rural life, and I'm taking my best shot at it with the debt-free cabin.

I'm starting to wonder.....can all these agrarian lifestyle farms connect economically somehow? It seems like if enough of them banded together with trade agreements (I'm serious), we could enable more folks to escape the current 9-5 slavery.

I would guess that location is a major limiting factor for most folks.

The biggest limiting factor is that at this point there just aren't enough people who care and/or have a clue what to do about it.

yeah, I guess I was too hopeful. That is the saddest part right there: "aren't enough people who care". Mormons USED to be the most independent folks in the USA, but we've since learned how to sell that birthright for a porridge of speculating along the wasatch front.

Give me 4-5 years on my own land, and don't bother me, and I'll have my own garden of Eden. Can't wait.

[Jason]

Riverbed Ranch in Juab County is doing this. I've visited there and they do have a very compelling story. The only problem I have with it is the location is not one I would pick. I just wish they had other such co-ops in other locations.
The upsides: lots of people all building a tiny town with little enterprises, shared common lands to use, shared facilities, cooperative neighbors to help build...
The down sides: 40 miles of dirt road through the UT desert to get there. After driving an hour from the nearest town. That's pretty rough on vehicles and perhaps dangerous in the winter. No internet. (though Starlink is fixing that). It'd dry, windy UT desert county.
This should be replicated in the Ozarks and Idaho and everywhere. How do we?
https://www.facebook.com/AcademyofSelfReliance/

I've been watching them from a distance for awhile now after they reached out to me a year or two ago. Offered some resources to be of assistance.

Worthwhile aim and it won't be the first nor likely the last that what appears to be inhabitable can be made habitable. That said I see the work load ahead of them, the timing of things, and cringe. But with labor and resources...anything is possible. The distance from large population centers could be their saving grace. In a recent trip down the Wasatch front I marveled at all the people. It has only been a decade since I lived in the middle of that...but after being away and in much much smaller communities...I wonder how it will all look in the not so distant future when chariots have issues, food supplies dwindle...you get my drift.

That and I've located my own area and endeavor to build. I look out the window at chickens hunting bugs in the rain...the initial start on a mini-bed acre garden...the acre next to it that needs to get launched in the next month or so...the honeyberries starting to leaf out and get started...the strawberry beds growing and the new one that needs to get finished. The fruit trees that need planted (of course must be Ellen White with all the work that entails). And here is my one year old my wife and I have been graced with in our old age and autoimmune defficiencies...with a blow out almost reaching the back of his head...I have my hands full without launching on a clean slate that needs everything from shelter to out buildings to soil testing & mediation to piping water in...and my hat goes off to the brave in spirit who embrace it. Better address the one year old now...