Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Discuss the last days, Zion, second coming, emergency preparedness, alternative health, etc.
Michelle
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by Michelle »

I first heard about Homestead Heritage in February while reading this board. I planned on visiting in March with a friend, but I had to cancel because of a family emergency.

This is my first post because I don't love putting things online, so without too many details, I was led to learn about these people by the Spirit. They hold many common beliefs with LDS: no infant baptism; church leadership from lay members; intentional community, but private property; I could go on. It is amazing, they seem to lack only the knowledge that the restoration they wait for has already happened.

I know many on this board say "the Spirit" has told them things that I know to be false, so I won't ask you to believe me, but I will bear my testimony that I believe we will soon be living in such communties as described in Doctrine and Covenants 45:62-73. Study and pray for yourself.

62 For verily I say unto you, that great things await you;

63 Ye hear of wars in foreign lands; but, behold, I say unto you, they are nigh, even at your doors, and not many years hence ye shall hear of wars in your own lands.

64 Wherefore I, the Lord, have said, gather ye out from the eastern lands, assemble ye yourselves together ye elders of my church; go ye forth into the western countries, call upon the inhabitants to repent, and inasmuch as they do repent, build up churches unto me.

65 And with one heart and with one mind, gather up your riches that ye may purchase an inheritance which shall hereafter be appointed unto you.

66 And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God;

67 And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion.

68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

71 And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy.

72 And now I say unto you, keep these things from going abroad unto the world until it is expedient in me, that ye may accomplish this work in the eyes of the people, and in the eyes of your enemies, that they may not know your works until ye have accomplished the thing which I have commanded you;

73 That when they shall know it, that they may consider these things.

A short intro about me: this may not be popular, but because it matters to me, it may matter to you. I believe that the LDS Church with Thomas S. Monson as the current prophet is the Lord's church. I do not subscribe to the various offshoot versions of mormonism. I do not believe in energy healing, I believe in the proper priesthood authority and sincere prayer. I do not subscribe to the many prepper groups whose source is unauthorized revelation related to visions which do not follow the patterns of God or NDEs. (While I do believe in assistance from beyond the veil, I believe that we must do as Joseph Smith directed and "try the spirits" to see if they be from God or some other sort.) I do believe in personal revelation according to stewardship.

I believe in learning by study and faith. I believe that many of changes that will take place are visible to all who seek truth. The Family: A Proclamation to the World says the disintigration of the family will lead the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. Those seeds have been sown and cannot be changed in the short term.

2007-2008 Oldest of boomers reach early retirement; demographically predicted economic downturn; economically predicted reduction of birth rates.

2008-2017 birth rates continue to drop; August 2016 CDC begins to release fertility rates quartly instead of annually because of steep declines since 2007.

2024 "Generation Not Born" (babies not born in 2008) would be entering employment (unskilled labor-after school jobs). They cannot, they were not born.

2026 oldest of boomer generation hits early retirement

2028 "Generation Not Born" would be entering unskilled labor-post high school They cannot, they were not born.

2030 "Generation Not Born" would be skilled labor-post undergraduate college. They cannot, they were not born.

2031 Oldest of baby boomers hits full life expectancy of 85 years.

Each of these dates is a economic tremor leading to an economic earthquake. There will be no outlasting these events. You can't stockpile enough things, so just focus on what the prophets have said about getting out of debt, a year supply of food and a bit of savings. You must have skills. Interestingly the scriptures (yes, for real! lol) have a lot of answers about self sufficiency. But all the reading in the world can't replace real world practice.

This is the tip of the iceburg. These patterns are worldwide. Some countries are farther "ahead" than the US. Some are farther "behind." There is no quick fix for children not born, we can't create full grown adults. Technology can help mitigate some of the effects. (I use the word "help" very loosely.) But even tech will end up being limited by unavailable manpower.

Sources for a quick primer on demographics and how birth rates are changing the world:

Elder Cook: BYU Devotional February 7, 2017 "A Banquet of Consequences: The Cumulative Result of All Choices"

https://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostl ... s?lang=eng

Demographic Winter:

http://www.byutv.org/watch/59b6b917-984 ... ter-part-1

Demographic Bomb: (can be watched free with ads on Amazon.com)

https://www.amazon.com/Demographic-Bomb ... aphic+bomb

brianj
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by brianj »

Michelle wrote: May 12th, 2017, 4:30 pm 2007-2008 Oldest of boomers reach early retirement; demographically predicted economic downturn; economically predicted reduction of birth rates.

2008-2017 birth rates continue to drop; August 2016 CDC begins to release fertility rates quartly instead of annually because of steep declines since 2007.

2024 "Generation Not Born" (babies not born in 2008) would be entering employment (unskilled labor-after school jobs). They cannot, they were not born.

2026 oldest of boomer generation hits early retirement

2028 "Generation Not Born" would be entering unskilled labor-post high school They cannot, they were not born.

2030 "Generation Not Born" would be skilled labor-post undergraduate college. They cannot, they were not born.

2031 Oldest of baby boomers hits full life expectancy of 85 years.

Each of these dates is a economic tremor leading to an economic earthquake. There will be no outlasting these events. You can't stockpile enough things, so just focus on what the prophets have said about getting out of debt, a year supply of food and a bit of savings. You must have skills. Interestingly the scriptures (yes, for real! lol) have a lot of answers about self sufficiency. But all the reading in the world can't replace real world practice.

Welcome to the board, Michelle.
I'm going to disagree with you on the significance of the above dates. The 2008 beginning of the current recession (which is not still officially a recession only because of serious manipulation of the numbers) was the result of things other than some of the baby boom generation taking early retirement.
I don't believe retirement will be an issue at all. The overwhelming majority of that generation is totally unprepared financially for retirement. Some of them will retire as soon as they are old enough to collect social security, others will wait until they can get a maximum social security check. But most of those who retire will discover, to their great disappointment, that even with social security they don't have enough money to maintain their lifestyle so they will go back to work.

I have also read the claims by Robert Kiyosaki and others that a massive depression will occur when enough baby boomers retire because there won't be enough people to fill jobs, what you referred to above as when children never born should be entering the workforce. But, as long as the United States is a country that people around the world desire to live in, we will be able to accept immigrants to fill those jobs.

I firmly believe that we have much more to fear from the economic house of cards collapsing or from our nation losing the blessings that accompany a righteous population than we do from shifting demographics.

Michelle
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by Michelle »

I agree that sin is the cause of it all, less babies are a symptom. The reason the economic downturn was heavily contributed to by the age of the baby boomers is because retirement coincides with downsizing. They tried to sell family homes for small homes and flooded a bubble market. Retirement means less spent on kids, cars, everything really. I still believe that was the cause of the downturn. Other political issues (and there are plenty) just exacerbated the problem.

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gclayjr
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by gclayjr »

dennis,
The Amish have taken over the manufacture of the Mormon invention of the Handcart. The handcarts we used in the trecks in Argentina Came from the Amish. When it comes to manufactured products they are hard to beat. Same can be said of their produce.
Good to know that my neighbors are conducting a good business with members of the church. I can tell you that they have a good reputation for craftsmanship, and many of the best woodworkers and cabinetmakers around here are Amish.

They are also an excellent example of provident, independent living.


Regards,

George Clay

PS: Note my avatar

Michelle
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by Michelle »

I lived near and knew Amish as a teenager. I've been known to say a few times, "If I wasn't Mormon, I'd be Amish." and mean it. ;) I have always believed they would be with us in Zion as those who would not take up swords against their neighbors. More than that I have become convinced that they would be a great blessing in teaching us, the Latter-day Saints, the skills needed to survive such a day.

I feel the Homestead Heritage people may be in the same camp.

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harakim
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by harakim »

Silver wrote: May 9th, 2017, 4:52 am Thanks for bumping this thread, Dr. Jones. It's the first time for me to see it, too. I see that the original poster hasn't been on LDSFF for over a year.

The links provided still worked and the organization mentioned here is having another Homestead Fair over the Thanksgiving Weekend 2017 in Waco, Texas. (Yes, that's where the Branch Davidians were murdered by Janet Reno and Eric Holder.) Not too far from where I live...anybody wanna meet up assuming the end of the world doesn't happen before then?

Dr. Jones, I'm currently reading Richard Bushman's Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling. On pages 219-222, Bushman describes the prophet's plans for cities. Joseph want them to stay small and to each become a City of Zion with a public square in the center of town and a temple in the square. Farmers would live in town (because the towns were small enough to get to the farms immediately). Interesting reading.
A tempting offer

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oxbloodangel
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by oxbloodangel »

From what I have seen as we've built a new commonwealth school with a focus on community (a la The Abundant Community), even the small towns in Utah are not ready for these types of Zion-building exercises. Through our Hometown Heroes Project, we try to bring together craftsman and mentees, homesteaders and mentees, musicians and mentees, but few people around here are even interested in these free events. We've had master wood-workers, instrument-makers, farmers, photographers, herbalists, and a few scientists featured at our local, free events, and the number of people from the community who come can be counted on one hand. Our board has discussed many times why more LDS people in our little town (seriously little town) don't make the time to come to something so cool when they don't even have to fork over any money for it, and the answers seem to be rooted in the problems McKnight and Block discuss in the book The Abundant Community. A reliance on big, impersonal systems, an investment in the rat race, a struggle just to survive in the standard of living they believe they should be maintaining. Our townsfolk who public school their children are bussing them two towns over for school. All the family activity revolves around the sports and academic clubs offered there, and anything outside of that is basically ignored. Personally, I think it's very sad. Our towns are separated by natural features like mountains and rivers, and when it all goes south, the people in my own ward who should be my tightest community won't even know how to work together because so much of their relationship investments have been placed elsewhere. I am willing to bet this is true everywhere, outside of religious communal societies like what this town used to be. My sister and I felt called to try to re-establish here some of that Zion our ancestors were sent here by Brigham Young to establish. It's actually part of our mission statement to create a Zion society among us in preparation for Christ's return. We've only been operating for a year and we don't even have a building yet, so perhaps that mission will still be fulfilled in the future, but it's hard work operating a school and communitt outreach program with so few volunteers and a world that seems largely apathetic to the ideals of "intentional community" or even "building Zion where you are."

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harakim
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by harakim »

oxbloodangel wrote: May 25th, 2017, 10:06 pm From what I have seen as we've built a new commonwealth school with a focus on community (a la The Abundant Community), even the small towns in Utah are not ready for these types of Zion-building exercises. Through our Hometown Heroes Project, we try to bring together craftsman and mentees, homesteaders and mentees, musicians and mentees, but few people around here are even interested in these free events. We've had master wood-workers, instrument-makers, farmers, photographers, herbalists, and a few scientists featured at our local, free events, and the number of people from the community who come can be counted on one hand. Our board has discussed many times why more LDS people in our little town (seriously little town) don't make the time to come to something so cool when they don't even have to fork over any money for it, and the answers seem to be rooted in the problems McKnight and Block discuss in the book The Abundant Community. A reliance on big, impersonal systems, an investment in the rat race, a struggle just to survive in the standard of living they believe they should be maintaining. Our townsfolk who public school their children are bussing them two towns over for school. All the family activity revolves around the sports and academic clubs offered there, and anything outside of that is basically ignored. Personally, I think it's very sad. Our towns are separated by natural features like mountains and rivers, and when it all goes south, the people in my own ward who should be my tightest community won't even know how to work together because so much of their relationship investments have been placed elsewhere. I am willing to bet this is true everywhere, outside of religious communal societies like what this town used to be. My sister and I felt called to try to re-establish here some of that Zion our ancestors were sent here by Brigham Young to establish. It's actually part of our mission statement to create a Zion society among us in preparation for Christ's return. We've only been operating for a year and we don't even have a building yet, so perhaps that mission will still be fulfilled in the future, but it's hard work operating a school and communitt outreach program with so few volunteers and a world that seems largely apathetic to the ideals of "intentional community" or even "building Zion where you are."
Vaguely, where are you from?

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oxbloodangel
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by oxbloodangel »

Southern Utah

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AI2.0
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by AI2.0 »

FYI, Here's another thread which was started a couple of years ago on the forum about these communities;
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=39473

I can see how members would be interested in these communities, but personally, I'm not unless it was promoted or encouraged by our church leadership.

Michelle
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by Michelle »

oxbloodangel wrote: May 25th, 2017, 10:06 pm From what I have seen as we've built a new commonwealth school with a focus on community (a la The Abundant Community), even the small towns in Utah are not ready for these types of Zion-building exercises. Through our Hometown Heroes Project, we try to bring together craftsman and mentees, homesteaders and mentees, musicians and mentees, but few people around here are even interested in these free events. We've had master wood-workers, instrument-makers, farmers, photographers, herbalists, and a few scientists featured at our local, free events, and the number of people from the community who come can be counted on one hand. Our board has discussed many times why more LDS people in our little town (seriously little town) don't make the time to come to something so cool when they don't even have to fork over any money for it, and the answers seem to be rooted in the problems McKnight and Block discuss in the book The Abundant Community. A reliance on big, impersonal systems, an investment in the rat race, a struggle just to survive in the standard of living they believe they should be maintaining. Our townsfolk who public school their children are bussing them two towns over for school. All the family activity revolves around the sports and academic clubs offered there, and anything outside of that is basically ignored. Personally, I think it's very sad. Our towns are separated by natural features like mountains and rivers, and when it all goes south, the people in my own ward who should be my tightest community won't even know how to work together because so much of their relationship investments have been placed elsewhere. I am willing to bet this is true everywhere, outside of religious communal societies like what this town used to be. My sister and I felt called to try to re-establish here some of that Zion our ancestors were sent here by Brigham Young to establish. It's actually part of our mission statement to create a Zion society among us in preparation for Christ's return. We've only been operating for a year and we don't even have a building yet, so perhaps that mission will still be fulfilled in the future, but it's hard work operating a school and communitt outreach program with so few volunteers and a world that seems largely apathetic to the ideals of "intentional community" or even "building Zion where you are."
I think the problem is that some of us are spiritually ready to build these Zion communities, but we are currently separated by location, skill level, finding each other and even spouse readiness.

I have friends at all levels of readiness, but some are waiting for a call out instead of just taking action.

Even with what I do and have learned I feel unprepared: homeschool, homebirth, chickens, fruit trees, gardening, soap making. I know this isn't unknowable or undoable,all our ancestors did it.

I think that is the key. What did our ancestors really do? I love the church's teachings on family history. I have Mayflower and pioneer ancestors. In both instances they gave up comfort, there own gardens of Eden to draw closer to God. I've only known their stories a few years, but I have known for many years I wasn't born for this world. Since I was a kid I have dreamed of a simpler agricultural life. I believe this is where I will live someday, it is the world I came to build.

I had planned on visiting Homestead Heritage in March,but 3 days before leaving my Grandmother was ill and we changed plans to visit here before she passed. I would love to meet people there at the Nov. activities. I am not sure how feasible it will be, I am due with my 7th baby in December, but I would love to try.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Silver wrote: May 9th, 2017, 4:52 am Thanks for bumping this thread, Dr. Jones. It's the first time for me to see it, too. I see that the original poster hasn't been on LDSFF for over a year.

The links provided still worked and the organization mentioned here is having another Homestead Fair over the Thanksgiving Weekend 2017 in Waco, Texas. (Yes, that's where the Branch Davidians were murdered by Janet Reno and Eric Holder.) Not too far from where I live...anybody wanna meet up assuming the end of the world doesn't happen before then?

Dr. Jones, I'm currently reading Richard Bushman's Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling. On pages 219-222, Bushman describes the prophet's plans for cities. Joseph want them to stay small and to each become a City of Zion with a public square in the center of town and a temple in the square. Farmers would live in town (because the towns were small enough to get to the farms immediately). Interesting reading.
Dearly departed :P

Search keyword “bumping” brung me here. Once a bird bumped the ground, so I thunk to bump a thread. Been bumps a plenty the last while which may correlate with intentional communities. RELi is one keyword to search should you choose to discover further details.

Chandelier Craven were a pair of keywords that failed to find results stored in my personal memory banks. While concerning that Ancestry’s newspaper.com didn’t find a thing, even more concerning is it fails to find my dads obituary; familysearch.org still shows him alive, and many other omissions are of concern. We’re all failing to do what needs to be done, and I’m off to hopefully correct areas where myself heretofore am deficient. OP, over and out.

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tmac
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by tmac »

I'm back, to some extent, and based on recent interest in another thread, it may be useful to bump this one.

The only additional thing I'll note is that, unlike the sentiments of some expressed on this thread, although I am still a member in good standing, what the past 10 years has taught me is that, while, as a general rule TCJCLDS and its members have embraced worldliness and materialism more than ever, some other Christian groups have done more with less, and have done a much better job resisting that temptation. Consequently, at this point, I put little faith, hope, stock or confidence in TCJCLDS or its general membership on this front. As far as I am concerned these are completely lost ways in current LDS culture and society -- which means at this point we'll need to look elsewhere for that kind of knowledge, direction, skillset, and cooperative spirit, etc.
Last edited by tmac on February 27th, 2021, 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Cruiserdude
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by Cruiserdude »

tmac wrote: February 27th, 2021, 8:38 am I'm back, to some extent, and based on recent interest in another thread, it may be useful to bump this one.

The only additional think I'll note is that, unlike the sentiments of some expressed on this thread, although I am still a member in good standing, what the past 10 years has taught me is that, while, as a general rule TCJCLDS and its members have embraced worldliness and materialism more than ever, other Christian groups have done more with less, and have done a much better job resisting that temptation. Consequently, at this point, I put little faith, hope, stock or confidence in TCJCLDS or its general membership on this front. As far as I am concerned these are completely lost ways in current LDS culture and society -- which means at this point we'll need to look elsewhere for that kind of knowledge, direction, and cooperative spirit, etc.
Do you know of any groups like that heritage one, or even if it's smaller, here in Utah that may not be completely successful, but that the group at least desires that lifestyle?
I can't find squat online but I know a lot of that stuff is done on the facebooks group stuff now and I don't have a facebooks.

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tmac
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by tmac »

As someone mentioned somewhere, there is a small group at The Rock, in San Juan County. And there is a much older group at Eskdale, affiliated with what is known as the Order of Aaron. It is group that has had ups and downs, etc., but has survived, and even thrived, for decades, perhaps even 100 years now.

You may find some more information and answers here:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8767

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technomagus
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by technomagus »

Riverbed Ranch in Juab County is doing this. I've visited there and they do have a very compelling story. The only problem I have with it is the location is not one I would pick. I just wish they had other such co-ops in other locations.
The upsides: lots of people all building a tiny town with little enterprises, shared common lands to use, shared facilities, cooperative neighbors to help build...
The down sides: 40 miles of dirt road through the UT desert to get there. After driving an hour from the nearest town. That's pretty rough on vehicles and perhaps dangerous in the winter. No internet. (though Starlink is fixing that). It'd dry, windy UT desert county.
This should be replicated in the Ozarks and Idaho and everywhere. How do we?
https://www.facebook.com/AcademyofSelfReliance/

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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by Niemand »

Three that spring to mind are the Bruderhof and the Kibbutzim in Israel. Very different. The first group is pacifist and Christian, the second armed to the teeth and Jewish.

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tmac
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by tmac »

A group that seems to fly completely under the radar, and very few know much about them -- unless you happen to live or travel in close proximity to their colonies are the Hutterites. They have extensive and growing, literal Law of Consecration type intentional communities in Wyoming, Montana, and through-out the Prairie Provinces of Canada. In fact, they have been so successful and are so competitive, agriculturally, that other agricultural interests in Montana were putting pressure on the state legislature to pass laws to start trying to rein them in, because they are able to out-compete just about everyone else for land, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterites

The idea that Mormons tried the Law of Consecration and failed, and so has everyone else (failed) is purely a Mormon myth. There are other very successful and long-lasting examples of actual application of LoC principles -- just not among Mormons.

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Niemand
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by Niemand »

tmac wrote: April 19th, 2022, 4:08 pm A group that seems to fly completely under the radar, and very few know much about them -- unless you happen to live or travel in close proximity to their colonies are the Hutterites.
The Hutterites are interconnected with the Bruderhof, which I just mentioned. A complex connection in fact.

Some of it is detailed here:
https://peacefulsocieties.uncg.edu/2006 ... -explored/

While forum members may differ from these groups on some matters, I thought the discussion of the two groups in this article worth quoting... and some of these differing attitudes are probably worth thinking about.
Comparing the two groups, he indicates that the Bruderhof members are quite courteous and controlled. They tend to speak carefully and thoughtfully, and are often very serious in their relationships, while the Hutterites tend to be more blunt. The Hutterites have no problem gossiping about one another, both positively and negatively, while the Bruderhof members firmly believe, in the words of one of their documents, that “there must never be talk, either in open remarks or by insinuation, against a brother or sister …” (p.532).
Another striking difference is that the Bruderhof members see work as a form of worship, while the Hutterites see work as “simply a way to put bread on the table.” The latter don’t resent working, but, according to Janzen, “they simply do not associate the construction of a new hog barn with the worship of God.” (p.533).
The two groups also view education differently. The Hutterites minimize formal education for their young people, except that the Schmiedeleut has recently showed interest in training their own schoolteachers; but otherwise the Hutterites are happy to rely on outside professionals when they need them. In contrast, the Bruderhof encourage their young people to achieve a higher education, and their communities now include dentists and lawyers who were born in a hof.

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tmac
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

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JuneBug12000
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by JuneBug12000 »

tmac wrote: April 21st, 2022, 11:12 am Here's the chance:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/67615290
That is awesome tmac! If I wasn't here, I would be there.

I hope you find the right people.

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tmac
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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

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JuneBug12000 wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:09 pm
tmac wrote: April 21st, 2022, 11:12 am Here's the chance:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/67615290
That is awesome tmac! If I wasn't here, I would be there.

I hope you find the right people.
I've learned some interesting things in this process.

The first is that there are very, very few mainstream Mormons (TBMs?) with a productive and reproductive orientation anymore, and almost none that have any interest in production agriculture and/or an agrarian lifestyle. Of the younger generations, interest in that stuff can virtually not be found on the radar screens of Mormon millenials, etc.

I had already connected the dots on all that, so I thought that there might be more fertile ground in that regard reaching out to fundamentalists, with whom I have more exposure and background than most. And I've learned some very interesting things there as well, including the fact that Warren Jeffs issued an edict 10-12 years ago that faithful members of the FLDS Church were supposed to abstain from any and all sexual activity, and completely abstain from procreation and having children. Consequently, at least that branch of fundamentalists are completely unreproductive at this point.

In this process, I have run across whole families of faithful adult FLDS siblings in the 20-35 age range, who are all celibate and live and work together in an intentional agrarian community that is essentially like a celibate monastery. It is very interesting, and very disheartening.

The world is really screwed up right now -- on almost every front.

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Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by mudflap »

tmac wrote: April 27th, 2022, 10:13 am
JuneBug12000 wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:09 pm
tmac wrote: April 21st, 2022, 11:12 am Here's the chance:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/67615290
That is awesome tmac! If I wasn't here, I would be there.

I hope you find the right people.
I've learned some interesting things in this process.

The first is that there are very, very few mainstream Mormons (TBMs?) with a productive and reproductive orientation anymore, and almost none that have any interest in production agriculture and/or an agrarian lifestyle. Of the younger generations, interest in that stuff can virtually not be found on the radar screens of Mormon millenials, etc.

I had already connected the dots on all that, so I thought that there might be more fertile ground in that regard reaching out to fundamentalists, with whom I have more exposure and background than most. And I've learned some very interesting things there as well, including the fact that Warren Jeffs issued an edict 10-12 years ago that faithful members of the FLDS Church were supposed to abstain from any and all sexual activity, and completely abstain from procreation and having children. Consequently, at least that branch of fundamentalists are completely unreproductive at this point.

In this process, I have run across whole families of faithful FLDS siblings in the 20-35 range, who are all celibate and live and work together in an intentional agrarian community that is essentially like a celibate monastery. It is very interesting, and very disheartening.

The world is really screwed up right now -- on almost every front.
I sincerely wish you the best on this. I cannot believe nobody near there is jumping for this chance at an agrarian lifestyle. I feel like my whole life has been an attempt to get out of the city. Caught the bug at probably age 5, visiting my great aunt's 150 acre ranch in N. CA. Grew up, wanted to get a job as a forest ranger, till I figured out how woke you have to be to work for the Gov. Ex wife wanted to live "in the heart of it all", but somehow I managed to convince her to let me buy a 20 acre parcel with a cabin on it in Paris Idaho. Tried to convince her we should farm it and move there, but she loved city life too much. eventually had to sell my dream after the divorce.

Also taught me that you can't effectively run 2 homes and have a full-time J.O.B. (Just Over Broke). You either live the rural life (and deal with being poor and far away from things and learn how to take care of yourself), or you merely dabble in it on the weekends - "a gentleman farmer", i.e. "Glenn Beck", who owns a ranch, but hires people to run it for him. He's simply "playing rancher". If you spend your life in the city, trying to make enough money to escape, by the time you make enough money, you'll be too old and tired to work the land you could buy with the money. It's a death cycle, or slavery, or maybe both. But ahhhh! the things you can buy in this world with money!

I want none of that - well, I wouldn't mind a thousand acres, but I'm content with the land the Lord blessed me and my wife with. It's been whispered to both of us that riches await us. It's been confirmed that this piece of land is the right piece of land for us at this time, and we'll be blessed there. Meanwhile, my current J.O.B. is extremely easy to work with, and supplies 100% of the funds it takes to build this cabin. But I'm not above quitting if they, say....started requiring a vaccine to keep my J.O.B.. Wife is 100% behind me on this. She likes her shoes, but she knows how to live poor, too. With my "skills" (earned the hard way: through work and struggling), we should be able to survive.

Now, living in AL, feel like I have a second chance at rural life, and I'm taking my best shot at it with the debt-free cabin.

I'm starting to wonder.....can all these agrarian lifestyle farms connect economically somehow? It seems like if enough of them banded together with trade agreements (I'm serious), we could enable more folks to escape the current 9-5 slavery.

I would guess that location is a major limiting factor for most folks.

User avatar
tmac
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4526
Location: Reality

Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by tmac »

mudflap wrote: April 27th, 2022, 11:39 am
tmac wrote: April 27th, 2022, 10:13 am
JuneBug12000 wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:09 pm
tmac wrote: April 21st, 2022, 11:12 am Here's the chance:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/67615290
That is awesome tmac! If I wasn't here, I would be there.

I hope you find the right people.
I've learned some interesting things in this process.

The first is that there are very, very few mainstream Mormons (TBMs?) with a productive and reproductive orientation anymore, and almost none that have any interest in production agriculture and/or an agrarian lifestyle. Of the younger generations, interest in that stuff can virtually not be found on the radar screens of Mormon millenials, etc.

I had already connected the dots on all that, so I thought that there might be more fertile ground in that regard reaching out to fundamentalists, with whom I have more exposure and background than most. And I've learned some very interesting things there as well, including the fact that Warren Jeffs issued an edict 10-12 years ago that faithful members of the FLDS Church were supposed to abstain from any and all sexual activity, and completely abstain from procreation and having children. Consequently, at least that branch of fundamentalists are completely unreproductive at this point.

In this process, I have run across whole families of faithful FLDS siblings in the 20-35 range, who are all celibate and live and work together in an intentional agrarian community that is essentially like a celibate monastery. It is very interesting, and very disheartening.

The world is really screwed up right now -- on almost every front.
I sincerely wish you the best on this. I cannot believe nobody near there is jumping for this chance at an agrarian lifestyle. I feel like my whole life has been an attempt to get out of the city. Caught the bug at probably age 5, visiting my great aunt's 150 acre ranch in N. CA. Grew up, wanted to get a job as a forest ranger, till I figured out how woke you have to be to work for the Gov. Ex wife wanted to live "in the heart of it all", but somehow I managed to convince her to let me buy a 20 acre parcel with a cabin on it in Paris Idaho. Tried to convince her we should farm it and move there, but she loved city life too much. eventually had to sell my dream after the divorce.

Also taught me that you can't effectively run 2 homes and have a full-time J.O.B. (Just Over Broke). You either live the rural life (and deal with being poor and far away from things and learn how to take care of yourself), or you merely dabble in it on the weekends - "a gentleman farmer", i.e. "Glenn Beck", who owns a ranch, but hires people to run it for him. He's simply "playing rancher". If you spend your life in the city, trying to make enough money to escape, by the time you make enough money, you'll be too old and tired to work the land you could buy with the money. It's a death cycle, or slavery, or maybe both. But ahhhh! the things you can buy in this world with money!

I want none of that - well, I wouldn't mind a thousand acres, but I'm content with the land the Lord blessed me and my wife with. It's been whispered to both of us that riches await us. It's been confirmed that this piece of land is the right piece of land for us at this time, and we'll be blessed there. Meanwhile, my current J.O.B. is extremely easy to work with, and supplies 100% of the funds it takes to build this cabin. But I'm not above quitting if they, say....started requiring a vaccine to keep my J.O.B.. Wife is 100% behind me on this. She likes her shoes, but she knows how to live poor, too. With my "skills" (earned the hard way: through work and struggling), we should be able to survive.

Now, living in AL, feel like I have a second chance at rural life, and I'm taking my best shot at it with the debt-free cabin.

I'm starting to wonder.....can all these agrarian lifestyle farms connect economically somehow? It seems like if enough of them banded together with trade agreements (I'm serious), we could enable more folks to escape the current 9-5 slavery.

I would guess that location is a major limiting factor for most folks.
The biggest limiting factor is that at this point there just aren't enough people who care and/or have a clue what to do about it.

JuneBug12000
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2066

Re: Homestead Heritage & Intentional Communities

Post by JuneBug12000 »

tmac wrote: April 27th, 2022, 10:13 am
JuneBug12000 wrote: April 21st, 2022, 7:09 pm
tmac wrote: April 21st, 2022, 11:12 am Here's the chance:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/67615290
That is awesome tmac! If I wasn't here, I would be there.

I hope you find the right people.
I've learned some interesting things in this process.

The first is that there are very, very few mainstream Mormons (TBMs?) with a productive and reproductive orientation anymore, and almost none that have any interest in production agriculture and/or an agrarian lifestyle. Of the younger generations, interest in that stuff can virtually not be found on the radar screens of Mormon millenials, etc.

I had already connected the dots on all that, so I thought that there might be more fertile ground in that regard reaching out to fundamentalists, with whom I have more exposure and background than most. And I've learned some very interesting things there as well, including the fact that Warren Jeffs issued an edict 10-12 years ago that faithful members of the FLDS Church were supposed to abstain from any and all sexual activity, and completely abstain from procreation and having children. Consequently, at least that branch of fundamentalists are completely unreproductive at this point.

In this process, I have run across whole families of faithful adult FLDS siblings in the 20-35 age range, who are all celibate and live and work together in an intentional agrarian community that is essentially like a celibate monastery. It is very interesting, and very disheartening.

The world is really screwed up right now -- on almost every front.
Yup.

I use to encourage people to have kids, but they just get offended when I quote the scriptures, prophets and Proclamation.

So finally I just started telling them: "You don't have to have kids, but this is what is coming because no one is." It isn't a pretty picture.

Those who do have children, and all they they are suppose to, will find spiritual and temporal salvation in their choice. Those who don't, well, we all have to die sometimes, I suppose.

As for the agrarian lifestyle, I couldn't agree more. God gave Adam and Eve three commandments He never revoked: multiply and replenish, till the earth, tend the animals. People don't seem to understand that these are foundational lessons we are to learn in mortality and they may be surprised to find these matter at the "final exam."

I know this seems a frustrating process, but I do believe if are patient and have faith, the right people will slowly find their way to you. Don't give up tmac! :)

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