Conceal Carry in Church??

[Silver Pie]

I think you are absolutely right, FFA.

[David13]

What good are guns in church if no one is out in the parking lot observing cars coming and going or any suspicious activity? If perps gain entry to the church and then start shooting, it is already too late. There needs to be security measures before anyone can start hurting those inside. Then any guns inside can be more effective much sooner.

I really got to wholeheartedly disagree with you on that.
First, there is no prior restraint. So there is not a lot that can be done prior to someone doing something wrong.

Second, I think what you are saying is what the "gun control" idiots say. Let's put restraints on everyone, because one person in all might do something wrong.
Do you really think we all want to go through, or should go through a metal detector to get into the chapel? Or the parking lot? No, we can't and won't do that. It won't work anyway, because ... there is a back door, isn't there?

Third, if someone comes in and starts shooting, those ccws will be able to respond and stop them from doing more harm. Thus we pray.

Fourth, if you have a suspicious car or activity in the parking lot, what are you going to do about it? Nothing. Observe doesn't do anything to stop a shooter. Ccw does, or can.

dc

[freedomforall]

What good are guns in church if no one is out in the parking lot observing cars coming and going or any suspicious activity? If perps gain entry to the church and then start shooting, it is already too late. There needs to be security measures before anyone can start hurting those inside. Then any guns inside can be more effective much sooner.

I really got to wholeheartedly disagree with you on that.
First, there is no prior restraint. So there is not a lot that can be done prior to someone doing something wrong.

Second, I think what you are saying is what the "gun control" idiots Am I to take this personally? say. Let's put restraints on everyone, because one person in all might do something wrong.
Do you really think we all want to go through, or should go through a metal detector to get into the chapel? Or the parking lot? No, we can't and won't do that. It won't work anyway, because ... there is a back door, isn't there?

Third, if someone comes in and starts shooting, those ccws will be able to respond and stop them from doing more harm. Thus we pray.

Fourth, if you have a suspicious car or activity in the parking lot, what are you going to do about it? Nothing. Observe doesn't do anything to stop a shooter. Ccw does, or can.

dc

I doubt very much that you have spent very much time in a foxhole all night in total darkness. The people in the foxhole are the first line of defense for the "what ifs" and the "maybes." They are the alarm for potential attack and the warning to get others to get ready for action.
To have people sitting in pews with holstered guns and not knowing what is going on outside is just plain stupid and careless, not to mention useless. It sounds like you'd rather have several people get shot by a perp before anyone can respond to the commotion. So who are you willing to let die or get maimed before you pull your pistol, huh? Just a couple of people in the parking lot could potentially deter perps from carrying out their intent. Your way is a near guaranty of someone getting hurt. Would you recommend people wear blinders while driving? Or does that little bit of extra line of sight make a difference for increased defense?
Let's not let ego override common sense.
I said nothing about metal detectors or having to show a weapon before becoming seated. If it'll help, I'll type slower.

[David13]

What good are guns in church if no one is out in the parking lot observing cars coming and going or any suspicious activity? If perps gain entry to the church and then start shooting, it is already too late. There needs to be security measures before anyone can start hurting those inside. Then any guns inside can be more effective much sooner.

I really got to wholeheartedly disagree with you on that.
First, there is no prior restraint. So there is not a lot that can be done prior to someone doing something wrong.

Second, I think what you are saying is what the "gun control" idiots Am I to take this personally? say. Let's put restraints on everyone, because one person in all might do something wrong.
Do you really think we all want to go through, or should go through a metal detector to get into the chapel? Or the parking lot? No, we can't and won't do that. It won't work anyway, because ... there is a back door, isn't there?

Third, if someone comes in and starts shooting, those ccws will be able to respond and stop them from doing more harm. Thus we pray.

Fourth, if you have a suspicious car or activity in the parking lot, what are you going to do about it? Nothing. Observe doesn't do anything to stop a shooter. Ccw does, or can.

dc

I doubt very much that you have spent very much time in a foxhole all night in total darkness. The people in the foxhole are the first line of defense for the "what ifs" and the "maybes." They are the alarm for potential attack and the warning to get others to get ready for action.
To have people sitting in pews with holstered guns and not knowing what is going on outside is just plain stupid and careless, not to mention useless. It sounds like you'd rather have several people get shot by a perp before anyone can respond to the commotion. So who are you willing to let die or get maimed before you pull your pistol, huh? Just a couple of people in the parking lot could potentially deter perps from carrying out their intent. Your way is a near guaranty of someone getting hurt. Would you recommend people wear blinders while driving? Or does that little bit of extra line of sight make a difference for increased defense?
Let's not let ego override common sense.
I said nothing about metal detectors or having to show a weapon before becoming seated. If it'll help, I'll type slower.

What would help would be to put your bloated ego aside and say what you are saying. If not metal detectors, what on earth are you talking about?
Opening fire out in the parking lot?

There are no foxholes anywhere near any of the many meeting houses I have been to. So what do you think your ridiculous crack about foxholes should be interpreted as other than insanity, or drunkenness.
dc

[freedomforall]

What good are guns in church if no one is out in the parking lot observing cars coming and going or any suspicious activity? If perps gain entry to the church and then start shooting, it is already too late. There needs to be security measures before anyone can start hurting those inside. Then any guns inside can be more effective much sooner.

I really got to wholeheartedly disagree with you on that.
First, there is no prior restraint. So there is not a lot that can be done prior to someone doing something wrong.

Second, I think what you are saying is what the "gun control" idiots Am I to take this personally? say. Let's put restraints on everyone, because one person in all might do something wrong.
Do you really think we all want to go through, or should go through a metal detector to get into the chapel? Or the parking lot? No, we can't and won't do that. It won't work anyway, because ... there is a back door, isn't there?

Third, if someone comes in and starts shooting, those ccws will be able to respond and stop them from doing more harm. Thus we pray.

Fourth, if you have a suspicious car or activity in the parking lot, what are you going to do about it? Nothing. Observe doesn't do anything to stop a shooter. Ccw does, or can.

dc

I doubt very much that you have spent very much time in a foxhole all night in total darkness. The people in the foxhole are the first line of defense for the "what ifs" and the "maybes." They are the alarm for potential attack and the warning to get others to get ready for action.
To have people sitting in pews with holstered guns and not knowing what is going on outside is just plain stupid and careless, not to mention useless. It sounds like you'd rather have several people get shot by a perp before anyone can respond to the commotion. So who are you willing to let die or get maimed before you pull your pistol, huh? Just a couple of people in the parking lot could potentially deter perps from carrying out their intent. Your way is a near guaranty of someone getting hurt. Would you recommend people wear blinders while driving? Or does that little bit of extra line of sight make a difference for increased defense?
Let's not let ego override common sense.
I said nothing about metal detectors or having to show a weapon before becoming seated. If it'll help, I'll type slower.

What would help would be to put your bloated ego aside and say what you are saying. If not metal detectors, what on earth are you talking about?
Opening fire out in the parking lot?

There are no foxholes anywhere near any of the many meeting houses I have been to. So what do you think your ridiculous crack about foxholes should be interpreted as other than insanity, or drunkenness. As fact, because I spent several nights in one in Vietnam, and the experience ain't no picnic. So please keep your wisecracks to yourself.
dc

Why don't you quit while you're behind. You don't want to get me started when it comes to insults. If you don't agree with using logic, reasoning and strategy...that's fine, but don't insult my intelligence to suit your ridiculous, over the top ego.
We will have to agree to disagree. And I was 100% correct about you and foxholes. You couldn't grasp the point of having a first line of defense, which is nothing more than a preventive measure geared to hopefully stop any further action by those bent on hurting others. But you just keep wearing your blinders.

Oh, crap, somebody is shooting a rapid fire weapon from out in the foyer, I guess I should pull my CC I just got licensed for and go after them. Darn it, I just got hit in the chest, I hope someone else will get the shooter since my Smith & Wesson Model 500 .50-Cal. Magnum is still in its holster. Oh, no, the floor just hit me in the face...who turned out the lights?

The moral to this scenario is:

“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”... Benjamin Franklin

[David13]

I really got to wholeheartedly disagree with you on that.
First, there is no prior restraint. So there is not a lot that can be done prior to someone doing something wrong.

Second, I think what you are saying is what the "gun control" idiots Am I to take this personally? say. Let's put restraints on everyone, because one person in all might do something wrong.
Do you really think we all want to go through, or should go through a metal detector to get into the chapel? Or the parking lot? No, we can't and won't do that. It won't work anyway, because ... there is a back door, isn't there?

Third, if someone comes in and starts shooting, those ccws will be able to respond and stop them from doing more harm. Thus we pray.

Fourth, if you have a suspicious car or activity in the parking lot, what are you going to do about it? Nothing. Observe doesn't do anything to stop a shooter. Ccw does, or can.

dc

I doubt very much that you have spent very much time in a foxhole all night in total darkness. The people in the foxhole are the first line of defense for the "what ifs" and the "maybes." They are the alarm for potential attack and the warning to get others to get ready for action.
To have people sitting in pews with holstered guns and not knowing what is going on outside is just plain stupid and careless, not to mention useless. It sounds like you'd rather have several people get shot by a perp before anyone can respond to the commotion. So who are you willing to let die or get maimed before you pull your pistol, huh? Just a couple of people in the parking lot could potentially deter perps from carrying out their intent. Your way is a near guaranty of someone getting hurt. Would you recommend people wear blinders while driving? Or does that little bit of extra line of sight make a difference for increased defense?
Let's not let ego override common sense.
I said nothing about metal detectors or having to show a weapon before becoming seated. If it'll help, I'll type slower.

What would help would be to put your bloated ego aside and say what you are saying. If not metal detectors, what on earth are you talking about?
Opening fire out in the parking lot?

There are no foxholes anywhere near any of the many meeting houses I have been to. So what do you think your ridiculous crack about foxholes should be interpreted as other than insanity, or drunkenness. As fact, because I spent several nights in one in Vietnam, and the experience ain't no picnic. So please keep your wisecracks to yourself.
dc

Why don't you quit while you're behind. You don't want to get me started when it comes to insults. If you don't agree with using logic, reasoning and strategy...that's fine, but don't insult my intelligence to suit your ridiculous, over the top ego.
We will have to agree to disagree. And I was 100% correct about you and foxholes. You couldn't grasp the point of having a first line of defense, which is nothing more than a preventive measure geared to hopefully stop any further action by those bent on hurting others. But you just keep wearing your blinders.

Oh, crap, somebody is shooting a rapid fire weapon from out in the foyer, I guess I should pull my CC I just got licensed for and go after them. Darn it, I just got hit in the chest, I hope someone else will get the shooter since my Smith & Wesson Model 500 .50-Cal. Magnum is still in its holster. Oh, no, the floor just hit me in the face...who turned out the lights?

The moral to this scenario is:

“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”... Benjamin Franklin

"So please keep your wisecracks to yourself." Practice what you preach.

Insanity or drunkenness. Let me be charitable. Yesterday, Friday night, Dia de los Borachos. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you have sobered up enough today to ANSWER THE QUESTION.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO IN THE PARKING LOT? And who are you going to get to spend Sacrament meeting in the parking lot?


"Why don't you quit while you're behind." Again, practice what you preach.


" ... a first line of defense, which is nothing more than a preventive measure geared to hopefully stop any further action by those bent on hurting others."


What line of defense? What preventive measure? What are you talking about? Describe these things.

And finally, tell me how you are going to identify anyone "bent on hurting others" in the parking lot.

Are you going to question everyone in the parking lot? What is this "line of defense" going to consist of? Prior restraint?

Are you going to say "Visitors Welcome" or not?

Do you think someone bent on doing harm is going to tell you in the parking lot? Or wear a sign? You think they are going to make a "commotion" in the parking lot? Define commotion, as you see it. Then what alarm are you going to sound? The fire alarm?

Do you seriously spend your Sunday 3 hour block in the parking lot? That may explain what you have here so far.



"Just a couple of people in the parking lot could potentially deter perps from carrying out their intent." How? In what way? What are they (you) going to do? How do you determine their intent out there?



The topic here was Concealed Carry in Church. Not foxholes in Vietnam, nor the parking lot. So answer the questions, if you can.

What are you going to do with/in the parking lot. What are you going to do out there? What have you done so far. And if you are not thinking of foxholes in the parking lot, what compelled you to get foxholes into this thread?


In other words DESCRIBE YOUR OUNCE OF PREVENTION.

Meanwhile there will continue to be concealed carry in the church as has been stated here.

Thank you
dc

[freedomforall]

"So please keep your wisecracks to yourself." Practice what you preach.

Insanity or drunkenness. Let me be charitable. Yesterday, Friday night, Dia de los Borachos. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you have sobered up enough today to ANSWER THE QUESTION.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO IN THE PARKING LOT? And who are you going to get to spend Sacrament meeting in the parking lot?


"Why don't you quit while you're behind." Again, practice what you preach.


" ... a first line of defense, which is nothing more than a preventive measure geared to hopefully stop any further action by those bent on hurting others."


What line of defense? What preventive measure? What are you talking about? Describe these things.

And finally, tell me how you are going to identify anyone "bent on hurting others" in the parking lot.

Are you going to question everyone in the parking lot? What is this "line of defense" going to consist of? Prior restraint?

Are you going to say "Visitors Welcome" or not?

Do you think someone bent on doing harm is going to tell you in the parking lot? Or wear a sign? You think they are going to make a "commotion" in the parking lot? Define commotion, as you see it. Then what alarm are you going to sound? The fire alarm?

Do you seriously spend your Sunday 3 hour block in the parking lot? That may explain what you have here so far.



"Just a couple of people in the parking lot could potentially deter perps from carrying out their intent." How? In what way? What are they (you) going to do? How do you determine their intent out there?



The topic here was Concealed Carry in Church. Not foxholes in Vietnam, nor the parking lot. So answer the questions, if you can.

What are you going to do with/in the parking lot. What are you going to do out there? What have you done so far. And if you are not thinking of foxholes in the parking lot, what compelled you to get foxholes into this thread?


In other words DESCRIBE YOUR OUNCE OF PREVENTION.

Meanwhile there will continue to be concealed carry in the church as has been stated here.

Thank you
dc

Your first post to me was laced with insults and innuendo, and it continues from then on, so don't play the innocent and accusatory card now. Frankly, do you deserve a detailed explanation of my ideas given as an answer? Aren't you too busy being a hotheaded know it all, and happy that you can be sober enough to carry a gun into church like Wyatt Earp and be the toughest, most admired guy in the chapel?
At this point I'm going to let you keep guessing, which is a lot more fun for me rather than weeding through your insults and appeasing your arrogant laced statements, unless you want to become civil and ask questions respectfully.

I think what you are saying is what the "gun control" idiots say.

.
This is in no way a good opener for discussion. It only puts someone on the defensive from the get go. And you prejudged what I was saying by saying things I hadn't even mentioned, like metal detectors...where the heck did that come from?

[KurtTheMormon]

In the state of Utah one of the few illegal places to carry a gun is inside an LDS church.

I bring pepper spray instead.

[David13]

"So please keep your wisecracks to yourself." Practice what you preach.

Insanity or drunkenness. Let me be charitable. Yesterday, Friday night, Dia de los Borachos. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you have sobered up enough today to ANSWER THE QUESTION.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO IN THE PARKING LOT? And who are you going to get to spend Sacrament meeting in the parking lot?


"Why don't you quit while you're behind." Again, practice what you preach.


" ... a first line of defense, which is nothing more than a preventive measure geared to hopefully stop any further action by those bent on hurting others."


What line of defense? What preventive measure? What are you talking about? Describe these things.

And finally, tell me how you are going to identify anyone "bent on hurting others" in the parking lot.

Are you going to question everyone in the parking lot? What is this "line of defense" going to consist of? Prior restraint?

Are you going to say "Visitors Welcome" or not?

Do you think someone bent on doing harm is going to tell you in the parking lot? Or wear a sign? You think they are going to make a "commotion" in the parking lot? Define commotion, as you see it. Then what alarm are you going to sound? The fire alarm?

Do you seriously spend your Sunday 3 hour block in the parking lot? That may explain what you have here so far.



"Just a couple of people in the parking lot could potentially deter perps from carrying out their intent." How? In what way? What are they (you) going to do? How do you determine their intent out there?



The topic here was Concealed Carry in Church. Not foxholes in Vietnam, nor the parking lot. So answer the questions, if you can.

What are you going to do with/in the parking lot. What are you going to do out there? What have you done so far. And if you are not thinking of foxholes in the parking lot, what compelled you to get foxholes into this thread?


In other words DESCRIBE YOUR OUNCE OF PREVENTION.

Meanwhile there will continue to be concealed carry in the church as has been stated here.

Thank you
dc

Your first post to me was laced with insults and innuendo, and it continues from then on, so don't play the innocent and accusatory card now. Frankly, do you deserve a detailed explanation of my ideas given as an answer? Aren't you too busy being a hotheaded know it all, and happy that you can be sober enough to carry a gun into church like Wyatt Earp and be the toughest, most admired guy in the chapel?
At this point I'm going to let you keep guessing, which is a lot more fun for me rather than weeding through your insults and appeasing your arrogant laced statements, unless you want to become civil and ask questions respectfully.

I think what you are saying is what the "gun control" idiots say.

.
This is in no way a good opener for discussion. It only puts someone on the defensive from the get go. And you prejudged what I was saying by saying things I hadn't even mentioned, like metal detectors...where the heck did that come from?

You are rather insulting for someone who wants to act so sanctimonious.

There was never any guessing on my part at all. I knew you had no idea of this parking lot defense, but that you just wanted to blow a lot of hot air.
I called your bluff and you couldn't lay down your cards. Since you can't put up, shut up.
dc

[Elizabeth]

In Australia, neither are allowed nor legal anywhere.

In the state of Utah one of the few illegal places to carry a gun is inside an LDS church.

I bring pepper spray instead.

[gkearney]

In Australia, neither are allowed nor legal anywhere.

In the state of Utah one of the few illegal places to carry a gun is inside an LDS church.

I bring pepper spray instead.

It any church in Utah not just LDS ones.

[freedomforall]

You are rather insulting for someone who wants to act so sanctimonious.

There was never any guessing on my part at all. I knew you had no idea of this parking lot defense, but that you just wanted to blow a lot of hot air.
I called your bluff and you couldn't lay down your cards. Since you can't put up, shut up.
dc

Here is a book I recommend to you:

How to Win Friends and Influence People

[freedomforall]

In Australia, neither are allowed nor legal anywhere.

In the state of Utah one of the few illegal places to carry a gun is inside an LDS church.

I bring pepper spray instead.

It any church in Utah not just LDS ones.

This is when spit wads come in handy. Or even a pea shooter.

Maybe even a very nice wrist rocket:

Wrist Rocket.jpg (191.41 KiB) Viewed 1808 times

[David13]

You are rather insulting for someone who wants to act so sanctimonious.

There was never any guessing on my part at all. I knew you had no idea of this parking lot defense, but that you just wanted to blow a lot of hot air.
I called your bluff and you couldn't lay down your cards. Since you can't put up, shut up.
dc

Here is a book I recommend to you:

How to Win Friends and Influence People

Have you read the book? It sure don't show!

I'm not trying to influence you. You are trying to tell me you have some magic parking lot defense system, and I say you have nothing. And you have presented ... nothing.

Therefore ...
dc

[David13]

In Australia, neither are allowed nor legal anywhere.

In the state of Utah one of the few illegal places to carry a gun is inside an LDS church.

I bring pepper spray instead.

It any church in Utah not just LDS ones.

This is when spit wads come in handy. Or even a pea shooter.

Maybe even a very nice wrist rocket:

Wrist Rocket.jpg

You are going to take a pea shooter to a gun fight? You are a real defense expert, aren't you!
dc

[freedomforall]

In Australia, neither are allowed nor legal anywhere.

It any church in Utah not just LDS ones.

This is when spit wads come in handy. Or even a pea shooter.

Maybe even a very nice wrist rocket:

Wrist Rocket.jpg

You are going to take a pea shooter to a gun fight? You are a real defense expert, aren't you!
dc

I'm merely thoroughly enjoying watching you have a panty twisting, emotional frustrating, heart wrenching, hissy fit style tantrum. :)) :)) :))

Temper Tantrum.jpg (27.83 KiB) Viewed 1715 times

If you're planning on moving to UT, don't count on taking a gun to church...so you better get used to the idea of buying a pea shooter or mass producing some spit wads and purchasing a good wrist rocket. Perps out in the parking lot will be too afraid to enter the building when they see your wrist rocket at the ready.
Remember what the Scout motto is? That's right, Be Prepared.

[David13]

It any church in Utah not just LDS ones.

This is when spit wads come in handy. Or even a pea shooter.

Maybe even a very nice wrist rocket:

Wrist Rocket.jpg

You are going to take a pea shooter to a gun fight? You are a real defense expert, aren't you!
dc

I'm merely thoroughly enjoying watching you have a panty twisting, emotional frustrating, heart wrenching, hissy fit style tantrum. :)) :)) :))

Temper Tantrum.jpg


If you're planning on moving to UT, don't count on taking a gun to church...so you better get used to the idea of buying a pea shooter or mass producing some spit wads and purchasing a good wrist rocket. Perps out in the parking lot will be too afraid to enter the building when they see your wrist rocket at the ready.
Remember what the Scout motto is? That's right, Be Prepared.

Now I'm wondering if you've been drinking or taking LSD.
First you imagine that I'm trying to influence you. Now you think I give a hoot about your silly ideas. Or your inability to post anything about your wild parking lot defense scheme.
Really amateur jokes. As they say, don't quit the day job.
And save your silly advice for someone who's interested in nonsense.
dc

You posted and posted and posted about how there has to be a defense in the parking lot. And then you began to think and realized you had no idea what this parking lot defense would be. You have thought of foxholes, but then realized that they were in Vietnam, maybe some "flash backs" or something.
Then realized that foxholes wouldn't do a lot of good in LDS meeting house parking lots.
But you aren't man enough, or sober enough, or adult enough to admit it.
So you clown around and come up with a ridiculous fantasy that I have thrown a temper tantrum.

All I asked you to do was outline this parking lot defense. And you still can't do that and aren't man enough to admit it.
Sad, not funny.

[Fishwalker]

Most members of the church could find great benefit by reading the LDS Handbook #2:

21.2.4 Firearms
Churches are dedicated for the worship of God and as havens from the cares and concerns of the world. The carrying of lethal weapons, concealed or otherwise, within their walls is inappropriate except as required by officers of the law.

That being said, I know several people who carry everywhere, including church. But, most of them have some form of law enforcement or security guard training.

[freedomforall]

This is when spit wads come in handy. Or even a pea shooter.

Maybe even a very nice wrist rocket:

Wrist Rocket.jpg

You are going to take a pea shooter to a gun fight? You are a real defense expert, aren't you!
dc

I'm merely thoroughly enjoying watching you have a panty twisting, emotional frustrating, heart wrenching, hissy fit style tantrum. :)) :)) :))

Temper Tantrum.jpg


If you're planning on moving to UT, don't count on taking a gun to church...so you better get used to the idea of buying a pea shooter or mass producing some spit wads and purchasing a good wrist rocket. Perps out in the parking lot will be too afraid to enter the building when they see your wrist rocket at the ready.
Remember what the Scout motto is? That's right, Be Prepared.

Now I'm wondering if you've been drinking or taking LSD.
First you imagine that I'm trying to influence you. Now you think I give a hoot about your silly ideas. Or your inability to post anything about your wild parking lot defense scheme.
Really amateur jokes. As they say, don't quit the day job.
And save your silly advice for someone who's interested in nonsense.
dc

You posted and posted and posted about how there has to be a defense in the parking lot. And then you began to think and realized you had no idea what this parking lot defense would be. You have thought of foxholes, but then realized that they were in Vietnam, maybe some "flash backs" or something.
Then realized that foxholes wouldn't do a lot of good in LDS meeting house parking lots.
But you aren't man enough, or sober enough, or adult enough to admit it.
So you clown around and come up with a ridiculous fantasy that I have thrown a temper tantrum.

All I asked you to do was outline this parking lot defense. Coupled with insults and innuendo due to the fact you don't keep a civil tongue in your head. Don't agree? Just go back and see how many large red highlights I brought to light for others to read. You cannot deny it. And you truly expect me to respond with kindness after that? You must have a lot of nerve. And you still can't do that and aren't man enough to admit it.
Sad, not funny.

I don't have to justify myself to you. And at this point I could care less what you think I should provide or explain, either. You blew it!

[freedomforall]

Most members of the church could find great benefit by reading the LDS Handbook #2:

21.2.4 Firearms
Churches are dedicated for the worship of God and as havens from the cares and concerns of the world. The carrying of lethal weapons, concealed or otherwise, within their walls is inappropriate except as required by officers of the law.

That being said, I know several people who carry everywhere, including church. But, most of them have some form of law enforcement or security guard training.

Do you mean "are officers of law" or just having had law enforcement/security guard training? There is a difference. I can see an officer of law carrying in church but not just anyone claiming to have had extensive training. Additionally, after a person has qualified for a CCW they should have enough common sense to not brandish a weapon anywhere. This is also illegal.
Both UT and OR, as well as others, are also open carry so a holstered gun in view is then legal even though there are some restrictions. It's better to have a CCW except in church by the sound of it.

[Elizabeth]

I think it is a great privilege and excellent security for responsible persons to conceal carry a weapon they are proficient at using for defence. I only wish we had this opportunity in Australia.

[David13]

I don't have to justify myself to you. And at this point I could care less what you think I should provide or explain, either. You blew it!
[/quote]


Still not honest enough to admit that you had no such parking lot defense plan at all. Why not just be honest, and most of all honest with yourself.
dc

[JK4Woods]

The Lord protects us from any harm. Have you heard of any shooting/attacks at any LDS churches? The Lord will keep us safe from weirdos, until its time to let all Hell break loose.

Yep I have. Just because the PR arm of Salt Lake keeps a clamp on it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Besides, doesn't just have to be a shooting incident... a Molotov coctail or running down people by car in the parking lot...

[Z2100]

The Lord protects us from any harm. Have you heard of any shooting/attacks at any LDS churches? The Lord will keep us safe from weirdos, until its time to let all Hell break loose.

Yep I have. Just because the PR arm of Salt Lake keeps a clamp on it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Besides, doesn't just have to be a shooting incident... a Molotov coctail or running down people by car in the parking lot...

Wow. Then we are closer to the end of The Times of The Gentiles than I previously thought....

[brianj]

I don't have to justify myself to you. And at this point I could care less what you think I should provide or explain, either. You blew it!

Still not honest enough to admit that you had no such parking lot defense plan at all. Why not just be honest, and most of all honest with yourself.
dc

He just admitted that he does care. If he can care less that means his level of care is greater than zero. If he said he couldn't care less then he doesn't care.

As far as I'm concerned, the parking lot defense idea is silly nonsense. In every single ward I've been in there are people sitting in the foyers during sacrament meeting. These people would be all the early warning you need. If they see someone hostile approaching they can raise the alarm. If they are in their own world until hostile people enter the foyer, the sound of the foyer residents being shot would raise the alarm. Either way, if there are even half a dozen armed police officers and veterans in a sacrament meeting then there are enough people to cover each route of ingress to stop a massacre before it starts.