Conceal Carry in Church??

[tribrac]

A couple of weeks ago a brother in the ward was discussing concealed carrying with me. He said he takes his gun everywhere he goes EXCEPT CHURCH.

My response was that if I was a concealed carrier Church would be one of the places I would be most likely to carry. With all the women and children to protect and the doors wide open for nut jobs.

I reconsidered later, thinking that perhaps it was wrong to take an instrument of violence into the church, that perhaps it would be too easy to rely on it rather than on God in a desperate moment. Also I didn't know if the church has ever said anything about weapons in Church buildings.

In light of the tragic shooting death of the Bishop in California, it made me think about it again. So I want to know if what ya'll think and if you conceal carry do you carry to church?

[Like]

My Bishop asked our Stake President if guns were allowed to be carried to church the anwser was no. I am ok with the answer. I really don't care either way.

[Hyrcanus]

A couple of weeks ago a brother in the ward was discussing concealed carrying with me. He said he takes his gun everywhere he goes EXCEPT CHURCH.

My response was that if I was a concealed carrier Church would be one of the places I would be most likely to carry. With all the women and children to protect and the doors wide open for nut jobs.

I reconsidered later, thinking that perhaps it was wrong to take an instrument of violence into the church, that perhaps it would be too easy to rely on it rather than on God in a desperate moment. Also I didn't know if the church has ever said anything about weapons in Church buildings.

In light of the tragic shooting death of the Bishop in California, it made me think about it again. So I want to know if what ya'll think and if you conceal carry do you carry to church?

It's illegal in Texas unfortunately. The Church has also taken a pretty unfriendly stance on it across the board though. As I understand it they helped to get the CC law changed in Utah so that instead of having to post notices at all the entrances of the chapels, they could post a notice once a month in the papers notifying the public that concealed carry wasn't allowed in churches.

As far as I'm concerned, if it was legal I would absolutely carry. Carrying a gun in my view is no different then carrying jumper cables. I don't expect Moroni to show up and jump a members dead battery at church, so I have no problem believing that the defense of the flock may be left to members as well.

[armedtotheteeth]

I carry every Sunday and to all Church meetings. I know LEO can carry in LDS churches, but citizen canceled carry discouraged or even not allowed......I am not LE. I carry to the temple but leave my firearm in the locker. I NEVER feel comfortable leaving it in my car; If my car gets nicked, the criminal now has a gun to aid in his crime, or even worse.

Like you Hyrcanus, I see my firearms as a tool in case of emergencies. I carry a gun praying I will never have to use it. Shooting someone would be a life changing event, I would carry around those emotional scars for life, even if the person wholeheartedly need to be shot and killed.

[pritchet1]

My wife will only sit in the pew at the isle and closest to the exit doors in church. Her experiences in El Salvador have made it so. She expects bombs to go off.

Yes, Guerillas have entered in the back doors of chapels and sprayed machine gun fire in the rooms - during meetings.

Yes, we will see more of it.

Rely on faith for God to always fight our battles (D&C covenant promise) or be a minuteman, always ready to protect the flock? I would rely heavily on the Holy Ghost for promptings (do I arm myself today for church or not?).

What does a priesthood light-saber look like? Ask a cherubim.

[Henmasher]

Obedience is more important than a weapon.
Rather die from obedience than live after failing to do so and then losing my membership in the True church.
Otherwise there is a .40 on my hip 99% of the time
I actually feel the safest when I am worthy to hold the priesthood and feel confident in my abilities to perceive the spirit and the promptings given.

[Cowboy]

This is definitely one I struggle with. The Church has taken the firm stand of no guns in Church buildings. Even Concealed Carry Permit holders. I do not look at them as instruments of violence but instruments for protection. As happened in the Trolley Square shootings in SLC years ago and now in the Church shooting in Calif.... The shooter ignored all of that and walked in and shot innocent... UNPROTECTED people. Maybe a gun on a few people would have made a difference, but I guess we will never know.

[Henmasher]

This is definitely one I struggle with. The Church has taken the firm stand of no guns in Church buildings. Even Concealed Carry Permit holders. I do not look at them as instruments of violence but instruments for protection. As happened in the Trolley Square shootings in SLC years ago and now in the Church shooting in Calif.... The shooter ignored all of that and walked in and shot innocent... UNPROTECTED people. Maybe a gun on a few people would have made a difference, but I guess we will never know.

So did God look the other way while that was happening? No, he was well aware. I have to remember to never justify disobedience to a church commandment because of fear. Elijah took out a whole primary class with two "she bears" for calling him bald, by virtue of the priesthood, not a man made weapon.
We are never unprotected when living worthy of His protection. (also I do not choose to judge whether that bishop was worthy of protection, Gods will is still a mystery to me in many ways.) Death truly is a new birth into immortality. The fear of death should be shattered by faith in a living God and his ability to perfect us.
(p.s., I am terrified of dying but with my testimony growing my fear does recede. I desire faith that conquers the fear of death!)

[shadow]

The fear of death should be shattered by faith in a living God and his ability to perfect us.
(p.s., I am terrified of dying but with my testimony growing my fear does recede. I desire faith that conquers the fear of death!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8MIULx7WSc

[Henmasher]

The fear of death should be shattered by faith in a living God and his ability to perfect us.
(p.s., I am terrified of dying but with my testimony growing my fear does recede. I desire faith that conquers the fear of death!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8MIULx7WSc

got that on any other format. Stupid work filters

[shadow]

The fear of death should be shattered by faith in a living God and his ability to perfect us.
(p.s., I am terrified of dying but with my testimony growing my fear does recede. I desire faith that conquers the fear of death!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8MIULx7WSc

got that on any other format. Stupid work filters

Nope. It's a video of Davy Jones asking Jack Sparrow if he fears death. His reply is "You have no idea."

[Cowboy]

This is definitely one I struggle with. The Church has taken the firm stand of no guns in Church buildings. Even Concealed Carry Permit holders. I do not look at them as instruments of violence but instruments for protection. As happened in the Trolley Square shootings in SLC years ago and now in the Church shooting in Calif.... The shooter ignored all of that and walked in and shot innocent... UNPROTECTED people. Maybe a gun on a few people would have made a difference, but I guess we will never know.

So did God look the other way while that was happening? No, he was well aware. I have to remember to never justify disobedience to a church commandment because of fear. Elijah took out a whole primary class with two "she bears" for calling him bald, by virtue of the priesthood, not a man made weapon.
We are never unprotected when living worthy of His protection. (also I do not choose to judge whether that bishop was worthy of protection, Gods will is still a mystery to me in many ways.) Death truly is a new birth into immortality. The fear of death should be shattered by faith in a living God and his ability to perfect us.
(p.s., I am terrified of dying but with my testimony growing my fear does recede. I desire faith that conquers the fear of death!)

This response makes absolutely no sense. It is like comparing Apples to Orangeeee.........Cadillacs!
Also... I sure don't remember that story being about Elijah. Should you check that?

[Henmasher]

This is definitely one I struggle with. The Church has taken the firm stand of no guns in Church buildings. Even Concealed Carry Permit holders. I do not look at them as instruments of violence but instruments for protection. As happened in the Trolley Square shootings in SLC years ago and now in the Church shooting in Calif.... The shooter ignored all of that and walked in and shot innocent... UNPROTECTED people. Maybe a gun on a few people would have made a difference, but I guess we will never know.

So did God look the other way while that was happening? No, he was well aware. I have to remember to never justify disobedience to a church commandment because of fear. Elijah took out a whole primary class with two "she bears" for calling him bald, by virtue of the priesthood, not a man made weapon.
We are never unprotected when living worthy of His protection. (also I do not choose to judge whether that bishop was worthy of protection, Gods will is still a mystery to me in many ways.) Death truly is a new birth into immortality. The fear of death should be shattered by faith in a living God and his ability to perfect us.
(p.s., I am terrified of dying but with my testimony growing my fear does recede. I desire faith that conquers the fear of death!)

This response makes absolutely no sense. It is like comparing Apples to Orangeeee.........Cadillacs!
Also... I sure don't remember that story being about Elijah. Should you check that?

Bible Verses:
King James Version, Second Kings 2:23-24
23: And he [Elisha] went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up that way, there came forth little children of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; Go up, thou bald head.

24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood and tare forty and two children of them.

Oops it is Elisha that is being refered to. Either way the priesthood took out the primary class
Explain how this is apples to corsicas when Elisha held the same priesthood that I do and I would suppose you do
Maybe it is a matter of worthiness after all and an understanding that the priesthood is eternal and is not taylored to the time in which it is held

[Henmasher]

Although I am a gun advocate and open carry all the time (I'm a 90 lb woman with a disabled child to protect), I have felt that until the church changes their position on carrying (concealed or otherwise) in the church or temple, I leave my gun in the car and have faith that if anything happens inside one of these buildings, then the Lord allowed it for a reason. This is difficult especially in light of the bishop who was shot the other day inside the church, but maybe this will spark a change in this particular policy as the world becomes even more dangerous.

http://lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-rel ... of-worship

I agree. Again this is obedience and faith. One Bishop and 13 million members still alive. Not an excuse to break church policy in my mind.

[Rensai]

Bible Verses:
King James Version, Second Kings 2:23-24
23: And he [Elisha] went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up that way, there came forth little children of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; Go up, thou bald head.

24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood and tare forty and two children of them.

Oops it is Elisha that is being refered to. Either way the priesthood took out the primary class
Explain how this is apples to corsicas when Elisha held the same priesthood that I do and I would suppose you do
Maybe it is a matter of worthiness after all and an understanding that the priesthood is eternal and is not taylored to the time in which it is held

I've always thought their must be more to that Elisha story. I can't see a prophet of god using the priesthood to curse CHILDREN for mocking him for being bald. That just doesn't jive. Nowhere else in scripture is there any story about cursing children or anyone else, for such a minor offense that I know of.

[WhereCanITurn4Peace]

Bible Verses:
King James Version, Second Kings 2:23-24
23: And he [Elisha] went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up that way, there came forth little children of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; Go up, thou bald head.

24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood and tare forty and two children of them.

Oops it is Elisha that is being refered to. Either way the priesthood took out the primary class
Explain how this is apples to corsicas when Elisha held the same priesthood that I do and I would suppose you do
Maybe it is a matter of worthiness after all and an understanding that the priesthood is eternal and is not taylored to the time in which it is held

I've always thought their must be more to that Elisha story. I can't see a prophet of god using the priesthood to curse CHILDREN for mocking him for being bald. That just doesn't jive. Nowhere else in scripture is there any story about cursing children or anyone else, for such a minor offense that I know of.

We were just discussing this in Gospel Doctrine 3 or 4 weeks ago (2 Kings, Chapter 2, Verse 23). The teacher mentioned it was teenagers (youths), not children. Makes more sense that way!

[scottja]

I believe that it was not the outward actions of mocking the Prophet, but the inner character and attitudes, (lack of respect and reverence, worldly-ness) that were prevalent in the children (that they learned from their parents and their society).
The Lord through natural laws did some cleansing up.

Does anyone notice similar characteristics and attitudes in the younger generations of today? Don't get me wrong there are good honorable upstanding youth out there, but it also seems to me that the natural law includes opposition in all things. Where you have good, you will have a mix of bad too. The greater the good, the greater the bad will be mixed in...

[Joppa]

You weren't considered an adult till you were 30 in ancient Israel. Therefor they could have been anywhere from teens to 29

[Hyrcanus]

You weren't considered an adult till you were 30 in ancient Israel. Therefor they could have been anywhere from teens to 29

Just an aside, but that is an old Mormon urban legend. Most Israelites were considered adults by the age of 20.

[Joppa]

Yup. You right. I was remembering incorrectly 30 was the age to be a preacher. That's why Christ waited tell he was 30.
On other note from the instuite manual page 64
" the word that in the king James version is translated 'little children' means young as comared to old, and can be translated not only as child, but as young man, meaning a servant or one fit to go to battle."
So the ones mocking Elisha were old enough to know what they were doing.

[creator]

King James Version, Second Kings 2:23-24
23: And he [Elisha] went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up that way, there came forth little children of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; Go up, thou bald head.

24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood and tare forty and two children of them.

Seems so extreme! Imagine if someone made a movie out of that Bible story!!! (viewer discretion advised)

[Henmasher]

Yup. You right. I was remembering incorrectly 30 was the age to be a preacher. That's why Christ waited tell he was 30.
On other note from the instuite manual page 64
" the word that in the king James version is translated 'little children' means young as comared to old, and can be translated not only as child, but as young man, meaning a servant or one fit to go to battle."
So the ones mocking Elisha were old enough to know what they were doing.

Possibly coming up to destroy Elisha. IT was in self defense 8)

[AussieOi]

Yup. You right. I was remembering incorrectly 30 was the age to be a preacher. That's why Christ waited tell he was 30.
On other note from the instuite manual page 64
" the word that in the king James version is translated 'little children' means young as comared to old, and can be translated not only as child, but as young man, meaning a servant or one fit to go to battle."
So the ones mocking Elisha were old enough to know what they were doing.

we clutch at straws for what is probably a bad translation of a passed down story

as for guns. i only have one word.

Americans

[rcbako]

I think church is the safest place besides temple. I always feel secure whenever I am at church whether for church activities or church meetings. Overall I believe that it is His house definitely He will protect us.

[forbey]

I'm a tad conflicted on this. I carry everywhere. However, section 21.2.4 of Handbook 2 says firearms in church is inappropriate.

The priedthood consists of sheppards of the flock. I believe every sheppard should have some sheepdogs.

With today's targetting of gunfree zones. Insisting on church members being willing victims has me at odds with the First Presidency. Obedient, but at odds.