One of the first important coming events, an economic collapse

[Spaced_Out]

almost too late to the put your seat belts on the accelerating crash has started.

You're almost plagiarizing something Sarah Menet said 10 years ago. And here we are...

But really, I think this is a precarious time we're in and maybe we'll see a small economic disruption but for the most part my opinion is that religious freedoms will be taken prior to anything catastrophic happening.

Perhaps you have heard it all before but things are very different to 10y ago, we have had the hastening and world events and global economy is much worse than another point in the history of the world. It is no just one sector of the economy in a bubble but virtually all of the economy and not just one country but all of the major western and Asian economies. Negative interest rates are unheard off. No country that has been involved in money printing has had a good result, they have all fallen spectacularly and very rapidly. It simply cant continue much longer. The debt based economy on the ground with the destruction of the middle class and debt having reached a peak, it can only be days or months away not years.

The chorus of respected economists and major businesses and even the IMF is now a very loud chorus.

[brianj]

We are not children or pets. It is not necessary nor appropriate for a bishop, or anybody else to reprimand us for every little thing that we might do wrong. I would not expect a bishop to reprimand you for every sharing of a "revelation".

No, we don't need a reprimand every time we do something wrong, but at times it certainly helps to get some gentle direction. The new convert or investigator who attends a YSA beach or pool activity in a bikini needs to be pulled aside at the end of the event and gently taught the church principles of modesty and attire. This should happen at the end of the event so she can enjoy her time without discomfort, and obviously must be done gently so she knows that she isn't being picked on.

I joined the church more than a quarter century ago, but am a prime example of the Dunning-Kruger effect in that the more I learn, the more I come to realize how little I know. If I am doing something wrong by not keeping a personal revelation private, I won't know unless I am taught that principle either by a leader or by the Holy Ghost. And so far I have been taught that there are times and places when such revelation should not be shared but I have never been told to keep personal revelation confidential.

[I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS]

Have you not heard?
Sosa is a fraud.

What do you mean by this? What evidence do you have that he is lying? I don't live my life according to Hector but have seen nothing that would indicate he is engaged in fraud. Can you shed light on this?

We'll know 100% by inauguration day, since Sosa prophesied Obama will be the last president. If a new president takes office then Sosa will have been proven a fraud.

Fraud is a harsh word. Deceived or just having dreams that are just dreams is probably more appropriate. I don't get the impression that he is trying to deceive people purposefully and knowingly.

Good point. I don't believe he's trying to purposely deceive, so I should have chosen a different word.

[Spaced_Out]

"It's Really Broken" - Divergences & Decouplings Dominate Week In Stocks, Bonds, FX
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-2 ... s-bonds-fx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[kirtland r.m.]

Kirtland

Is this from his old book or his new book?

This is from first book. Chad Daybell(publisher) told me earlier this year that Hector would add a second book this fall. I get information directly from Hector, he is waiting for something to happen before publicly putting out more information. I know what it is, it could happen any day now. I continue to be given sacred information that some will share, at least in part, about revelation concerning coming trials. We have been given some ourselves on this forum by KurtTheMormon and others. I will be posting more about this subject in a couple of days on a thread where I was asked a direct question in an opening post a few days ago right hereviewtopic.php?f=2&t=43842. take care KillerPanda

[kirtland r.m.]

For any on the forum who have not read any quotes from Hector Sosa's book, a change is coming, here is a quote to show what it is about. He tells that he is blessed with visions of the future, and he shares some of them. He is an active l.d.s. member.

I was thinking deeply about these things when my surroundings changed. I was no longer in my office space. Instead, I was in the middle of a large crowd in a distant U.S. city

I was on a sidewalk with many other people. In front of me I saw young black folks in T-shirts. I vividly remember the guy in front of me wearing a red T-shirt.

To my right were cars parked along the road. To my left was a building wall. I was being pushed along by a crowd going forward on the sidewalk. This looked like a typical residential neighborhood close to the city center, but I have no idea which city it was.

There was a palpable sense of fear, anger, and frustration among the people that surrounded me. They were in the road and on the opposite sidewalk as well.

I heard snippets of a few nearby conversations. Some people were talking about finding food, while others were talking about several stores that had already been cleaned out.

There was an angry buzz throughout the crowd when people started talking about going to the richer suburbs to get food. I had been walking with the crowd for a while, and I noticed we had reached an area that was much nicer than where I was when the vision began. The road was not patched up like in the earlier area, ad there was actually grass between the curb and the sidewalk.

We reached a nice suburb where the homes were surrounded by iron fences. The people started climbing these fences in droves to loot the homes.

The next thing I knew it was evening. The sun was going down. There was a big commotion up ahead of me, and the crowd rushed forward. I found myself in the middle of a very large and violent melee. I felt something strike me on the right side of my face, then on the bridge of my nose. My eyesight turned black, and I felt myself hit the sidewalk, landing on my side.

I opened my eyes, and I was several thousand feet in the air above southern Utah and northern Arizona. I was looking east. I saw pillars of smoke rising from cities all across the land. The eastern seaboard had a thick haze covering it. I learned that rioting was happening in many cities at the same time. I looked toward Texas and saw a few pillars of smoke, but nothing like what I saw along the East Coast.

I turned around to look at the West Coast. Southern California had a thick haze blowing out to the west. The haze thinned out heading northward about halfway up the state. The U.S. Northwest was also covered in smoky haze.

I looked down and noticed some smoke rising from Salt Lake City, but it was nothing like the other cities across the United States. In the West, the Phoenix metro area had the most smoke. Las Vegas had about the same amount as Salt Lake City.

I closed my eyes, and when I opened them again, I was looking at the front page of a newspaper. I wasn't able to see what the name of the newspaper was. Only the news stories themselves were clear.

One headline read: "New York Stock Exchange closes due to rapid drop in stock values."

To my right, I saw a TV showing footage of a news anchorman talking about the electronic safeguards kicking in on Wall Street and halting trading.

The anchorman said that after the third time this safeguard had been triggered, officials decided to stop trading at the New York Stock Exchange. I was made aware this had happened on a Monday.

The newspaper and the TV news changed quickly to Tuesday. It was a repeat of Monday. The newspaper and TV footage then switched to Wednesday, when the world was told the stock exchange was closed until further notice.

The talking heads on the TV news shows were all trying to put a positive spin on the bad news, but few people were buying their lies anymore.

Everything shifted forward to Friday. I ignored the TV news and looked at the newspaper. One big headline read: "Bankruptcies Announced."

I looked closer and saw a fairly long list of companies closing their doors. I was extremely surprised to see some very well-known companies on that list. I saw Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan.

I saw a blurb about Wells Fargo closing several divisions, but that the company was not completely going under. There were many other company names mentioned in the article that I did not recognize.

I spotted another headline that read: "300K Out of Work."

the newspaper moved away to my left and out of my sight. Then the TV moved directly in front of me. I stepped back as other TVs moved around the first TV, until I was facing a full wall of TVs.

Each TV was playing a different snippet of what was happening in regard to this financial crisis. There was too much information being thrown at me, and I was barely able to understand all of the voices talking.

The little bits and pieces I caught were very disturbing. Whole industries were shutting down, forcing tens of thousands of people out of work overnight. The most worrisome aspect, at least to me, was that many transportation companies simply stopped operating. They just turned off the lights and posted notices on their doors that they were out of business. This caused massive disruptions to all types of deliveries that were scheduled in the cities.

The people in the nation's rural areas fared much better, but they still suffered the effects of the financial meltdown.

This event will be known as Obsidian Monday, and it will happen soon. It will be a dark and sharp dagger that will cut out the heart of the American economy. Moloch is getting his sacrifice and his pound of flesh.

Have you not heard?
Sosa is a fraud.

My friend, if you know what I know, you would change your opinion.

[gangbusters]

For any on the forum who have not read any quotes from Hector Sosa's book, a change is coming, here is a quote to show what it is about. He tells that he is blessed with visions of the future, and he shares some of them. He is an active l.d.s. member.

I was thinking deeply about these things when my surroundings changed. I was no longer in my office space. Instead, I was in the middle of a large crowd in a distant U.S. city

I was on a sidewalk with many other people. In front of me I saw young black folks in T-shirts. I vividly remember the guy in front of me wearing a red T-shirt.

To my right were cars parked along the road. To my left was a building wall. I was being pushed along by a crowd going forward on the sidewalk. This looked like a typical residential neighborhood close to the city center, but I have no idea which city it was.

There was a palpable sense of fear, anger, and frustration among the people that surrounded me. They were in the road and on the opposite sidewalk as well.

I heard snippets of a few nearby conversations. Some people were talking about finding food, while others were talking about several stores that had already been cleaned out.

There was an angry buzz throughout the crowd when people started talking about going to the richer suburbs to get food. I had been walking with the crowd for a while, and I noticed we had reached an area that was much nicer than where I was when the vision began. The road was not patched up like in the earlier area, ad there was actually grass between the curb and the sidewalk.

We reached a nice suburb where the homes were surrounded by iron fences. The people started climbing these fences in droves to loot the homes.

The next thing I knew it was evening. The sun was going down. There was a big commotion up ahead of me, and the crowd rushed forward. I found myself in the middle of a very large and violent melee. I felt something strike me on the right side of my face, then on the bridge of my nose. My eyesight turned black, and I felt myself hit the sidewalk, landing on my side.

I opened my eyes, and I was several thousand feet in the air above southern Utah and northern Arizona. I was looking east. I saw pillars of smoke rising from cities all across the land. The eastern seaboard had a thick haze covering it. I learned that rioting was happening in many cities at the same time. I looked toward Texas and saw a few pillars of smoke, but nothing like what I saw along the East Coast.

I turned around to look at the West Coast. Southern California had a thick haze blowing out to the west. The haze thinned out heading northward about halfway up the state. The U.S. Northwest was also covered in smoky haze.

I looked down and noticed some smoke rising from Salt Lake City, but it was nothing like the other cities across the United States. In the West, the Phoenix metro area had the most smoke. Las Vegas had about the same amount as Salt Lake City.

I closed my eyes, and when I opened them again, I was looking at the front page of a newspaper. I wasn't able to see what the name of the newspaper was. Only the news stories themselves were clear.

One headline read: "New York Stock Exchange closes due to rapid drop in stock values."

To my right, I saw a TV showing footage of a news anchorman talking about the electronic safeguards kicking in on Wall Street and halting trading.

The anchorman said that after the third time this safeguard had been triggered, officials decided to stop trading at the New York Stock Exchange. I was made aware this had happened on a Monday.

The newspaper and the TV news changed quickly to Tuesday. It was a repeat of Monday. The newspaper and TV footage then switched to Wednesday, when the world was told the stock exchange was closed until further notice.

The talking heads on the TV news shows were all trying to put a positive spin on the bad news, but few people were buying their lies anymore.

Everything shifted forward to Friday. I ignored the TV news and looked at the newspaper. One big headline read: "Bankruptcies Announced."

I looked closer and saw a fairly long list of companies closing their doors. I was extremely surprised to see some very well-known companies on that list. I saw Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan.

I saw a blurb about Wells Fargo closing several divisions, but that the company was not completely going under. There were many other company names mentioned in the article that I did not recognize.

I spotted another headline that read: "300K Out of Work."

the newspaper moved away to my left and out of my sight. Then the TV moved directly in front of me. I stepped back as other TVs moved around the first TV, until I was facing a full wall of TVs.

Each TV was playing a different snippet of what was happening in regard to this financial crisis. There was too much information being thrown at me, and I was barely able to understand all of the voices talking.

The little bits and pieces I caught were very disturbing. Whole industries were shutting down, forcing tens of thousands of people out of work overnight. The most worrisome aspect, at least to me, was that many transportation companies simply stopped operating. They just turned off the lights and posted notices on their doors that they were out of business. This caused massive disruptions to all types of deliveries that were scheduled in the cities.

The people in the nation's rural areas fared much better, but they still suffered the effects of the financial meltdown.

This event will be known as Obsidian Monday, and it will happen soon. It will be a dark and sharp dagger that will cut out the heart of the American economy. Moloch is getting his sacrifice and his pound of flesh.

Have you not heard?
Sosa is a fraud.

My friend, if you know what I know, you would change your opinion.

May I ask, what do you know that is so convincing that you believe it validates what Mr. Sosa says? I'm genuinely curious.

[kirtland r.m.]

Kirkland R.M

I do not read all the posts on this board. I often assume that the obvious has been stated over and over. I suppose, with all of the fervor over Julie Rowe, Denver Snuffer, Hector Sosa, etc on this board, that somebody has stated the obvious way to tell that they are NOT receiving revelation from the Lord. But just in case, the obvious hasn't been said, I will drop in a quote from Boyd K Packer

We are entitled to personal revelation. However, unless we are set apart to some presiding office, we will not receive revelations concerning what others should do. …

We are entitled to personal revelation. But if we are truly receiving revelation from God, then we know that it is PERSONAL, and not to be shared with anybody other than family, and whoever we may have stewardship over.

Regards,

George Clay

You almost nailed it completely. Some revelation is not to be shared. Some can be and is still not overstepping our stewardship. Want an example. If we strictly followed what you wrote, we couldn't share any personal revelation in fast and testimony meetings, ect., no witness of sacred things we know for ourselves, unless we asked Bishop ect. first. There is a difference between sharing SOME of our sacred information as witnesses of the Lord , and doing what Hyrum Page did. Interestingly, in the thousands of posts I have read on this forum, I cannot remember even one where someone(rank and file member, not priesthood leader) told me they had personal revelation that I must follow to be saved in the Celestial Kingdom in the way H.Page did.
Hector has said on tape at Utah Valley State college when asked for advice "I can't tell you what to do, I can only tell you what I saw". I also don't try to tell others what to do. However, I do post a boatload of quotes, many are scriptures, and G.A. quotes, but not all, I do testify of things I know to be true, and I also testify of things I believe to be true as my personal belief. I work extremely hard to follow the H.G., and have been blessed with some spiritual gifts, and I don't share everything I know. Thanks George, and take care brother!!!

[Robin Hood]

For any on the forum who have not read any quotes from Hector Sosa's book, a change is coming, here is a quote to show what it is about. He tells that he is blessed with visions of the future, and he shares some of them. He is an active l.d.s. member.

I was thinking deeply about these things when my surroundings changed. I was no longer in my office space. Instead, I was in the middle of a large crowd in a distant U.S. city

I was on a sidewalk with many other people. In front of me I saw young black folks in T-shirts. I vividly remember the guy in front of me wearing a red T-shirt.

To my right were cars parked along the road. To my left was a building wall. I was being pushed along by a crowd going forward on the sidewalk. This looked like a typical residential neighborhood close to the city center, but I have no idea which city it was.

There was a palpable sense of fear, anger, and frustration among the people that surrounded me. They were in the road and on the opposite sidewalk as well.

I heard snippets of a few nearby conversations. Some people were talking about finding food, while others were talking about several stores that had already been cleaned out.

There was an angry buzz throughout the crowd when people started talking about going to the richer suburbs to get food. I had been walking with the crowd for a while, and I noticed we had reached an area that was much nicer than where I was when the vision began. The road was not patched up like in the earlier area, ad there was actually grass between the curb and the sidewalk.

We reached a nice suburb where the homes were surrounded by iron fences. The people started climbing these fences in droves to loot the homes.

The next thing I knew it was evening. The sun was going down. There was a big commotion up ahead of me, and the crowd rushed forward. I found myself in the middle of a very large and violent melee. I felt something strike me on the right side of my face, then on the bridge of my nose. My eyesight turned black, and I felt myself hit the sidewalk, landing on my side.

I opened my eyes, and I was several thousand feet in the air above southern Utah and northern Arizona. I was looking east. I saw pillars of smoke rising from cities all across the land. The eastern seaboard had a thick haze covering it. I learned that rioting was happening in many cities at the same time. I looked toward Texas and saw a few pillars of smoke, but nothing like what I saw along the East Coast.

I turned around to look at the West Coast. Southern California had a thick haze blowing out to the west. The haze thinned out heading northward about halfway up the state. The U.S. Northwest was also covered in smoky haze.

I looked down and noticed some smoke rising from Salt Lake City, but it was nothing like the other cities across the United States. In the West, the Phoenix metro area had the most smoke. Las Vegas had about the same amount as Salt Lake City.

I closed my eyes, and when I opened them again, I was looking at the front page of a newspaper. I wasn't able to see what the name of the newspaper was. Only the news stories themselves were clear.

One headline read: "New York Stock Exchange closes due to rapid drop in stock values."

To my right, I saw a TV showing footage of a news anchorman talking about the electronic safeguards kicking in on Wall Street and halting trading.

The anchorman said that after the third time this safeguard had been triggered, officials decided to stop trading at the New York Stock Exchange. I was made aware this had happened on a Monday.

The newspaper and the TV news changed quickly to Tuesday. It was a repeat of Monday. The newspaper and TV footage then switched to Wednesday, when the world was told the stock exchange was closed until further notice.

The talking heads on the TV news shows were all trying to put a positive spin on the bad news, but few people were buying their lies anymore.

Everything shifted forward to Friday. I ignored the TV news and looked at the newspaper. One big headline read: "Bankruptcies Announced."

I looked closer and saw a fairly long list of companies closing their doors. I was extremely surprised to see some very well-known companies on that list. I saw Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan.

I saw a blurb about Wells Fargo closing several divisions, but that the company was not completely going under. There were many other company names mentioned in the article that I did not recognize.

I spotted another headline that read: "300K Out of Work."

the newspaper moved away to my left and out of my sight. Then the TV moved directly in front of me. I stepped back as other TVs moved around the first TV, until I was facing a full wall of TVs.

Each TV was playing a different snippet of what was happening in regard to this financial crisis. There was too much information being thrown at me, and I was barely able to understand all of the voices talking.

The little bits and pieces I caught were very disturbing. Whole industries were shutting down, forcing tens of thousands of people out of work overnight. The most worrisome aspect, at least to me, was that many transportation companies simply stopped operating. They just turned off the lights and posted notices on their doors that they were out of business. This caused massive disruptions to all types of deliveries that were scheduled in the cities.

The people in the nation's rural areas fared much better, but they still suffered the effects of the financial meltdown.

This event will be known as Obsidian Monday, and it will happen soon. It will be a dark and sharp dagger that will cut out the heart of the American economy. Moloch is getting his sacrifice and his pound of flesh.

Have you not heard?
Sosa is a fraud.

My friend, if you know what I know, you would change your opinion.

People used to say the same about Julie Rowe (who Sosa endorsed) and look at where that got them!
You're wrong about him, mark my words.
Seriously mate..... distance yourself.

[Original_Intent]

A thought I haven't seen shared yet.

These DDOS attacks, which are still ongoing by the way, could easily trigger said economic collapse, Our economy is already at the breaking point, afew days or worse weeks of ongoing internet outage would be devastating for many businesses. This could easily trigger a big stock market move which many have said we are overdue for even without the DDOS attacks.

[gclayjr]

Brianj, Kirtland RM,

You almost nailed it completely. Some revelation is not to be shared. Some can be and is still not overstepping our stewardship. Want an example. If we strictly followed what you wrote, we couldn't share any personal revelation in fast and testimony meetings, ect., no witness of sacred things we know for ourselves, unless we asked Bishop ect. first. There is a difference between sharing SOME of our sacred information as witnesses of the Lord , and doing what Hyrum Page did. Interestingly, in the thousands of posts I have read on this forum, I cannot remember even one where someone(rank and file member, not priesthood leader) told me they had personal revelation that I must follow to be saved in the Celestial Kingdom in the way H.Page did.

I may have not used precise enough language, for you. I'm not sure whether this is true confusion, or whether this is an attempt at playing "gotcha". I guess if you want to get technical, saying in testimony meeting that you followed Moroni's admonition and it was "revealed" to you that the Book of Mormon is true, not only is permissible, but encouraged. If you get up in testimony meeting and say that you and your wife prayed and was inspired to take a job in some new town and move, that is certainly also no problem. I guess you could call that sharing your revelations. and I admit that that is fine.

However, then you take a strange left turn here. Julie Rowe, Denver Snuffer, Hector Sosa, etc, are not telling inspiring stories as to how they got a testimony of the Book of Mormon "revealed" to them. They are not relating stories of how following the guidance of the spirit in making family choices like where to live, or what job to take blessed them. They are telling people that based upon their special knowledge or revelation what is coming and what they should do about it. If this were not true, then there would not be so much commotion over what they say, particularly in regards to whether one should listen to them or God's anointed.

You also say that you have never heard anybody anybody anywhere say that they had personal revelation that you must follow to be saved. Again you are either straining at jots and tittles (the problem with this line of reasoning), or you are clueless. I don't want to name names, but there are a number of well-known posters here who avocate or preach their own special "revelation" or knowledge, whether it be to reject the Church's teachings on tithing and listening to "revelation" of the true order of Enoch, and becoming some sort of Hippie socialists, or to reject the idea that tithing is to be donated to the church.... it is interesting that so many involve filthy lucre... to what the church is wrong about in regards to gay marriage, and the baptism of their children.

In your pursuit of jots and tittles you get it wrong both ways. You slam me as if I was stating that you shouldn't share an inspirational story about how you were blessed by following personal inspiration and then blow by the fact that there are so many all over, including here in this board, who use their belief of personal revelation that goes contrary to the teachings of the gospel, to try and persuade people down their "stony path", and simply because maybe they didn't actually use the words "You must follow my personal revelation to get to the Celestial kingdom" you don't see that they have tried to use their "revelation" or special knowledge to lead people to Satan!

Be careful. In straining at gnats, you are swallowing camels!

REgards,

George Clay

[Durzan]

but that's the thing... most DONT tell us what to do, and the ones that have are either crazy (julie rowe), or have been excommunicated (denver snuffer)! At best, they give suggestions, with the "ymmv" disclaimer, and then go on to encourage others to listen to council of previous and current prophets as well as the spirit!

Some have given educated guesses based on their dreams and visions, but that's it... just guesses. Some have jumped the gun, interpreting what they see or hear themselves before the Spirit instructs them as to the proper meaning. Others are flat out discieved.

[brianj]

George,
First off, it appears to have been confusion. Your follow-up post shows that you didn't intend to communicate what I understood from your post.

Through a process called reverse osmosis, alcohol can be removed from wine to the point where a glass of wine has less alcohol than a glass of fresh orange juice. Do you believe that it is wrong for me to say that I was inspired to know that it is wrong for me to drink wine with alcohol removed? I f I were to tell you that it is wrong for you to drink alcohol free wine, I would be grossly overstepping appropriate boundaries.
I can't claim obvious personal revelation on the consequences of debt, but I keep having the impression of hyperinflation causing interest rates to skyrocket and making finances get even more difficult for people who need to make debt payments. If those thoughts are revelation, is it wrong of me to warn others of what has been impressed upon me as one more reason why they should follow the counsel of prophets?

I don't know if what Rowe, Sosa, and others have said is truly revelation they have received, but I have read Sosa's book and never seen him tell people what to do beyond following the counsel and guidance of church leaders. Although Rowe encouraged readers of her books to acquire camping supplies in addition to acquiring the food storage we all have been counseled to acquire, she did also tell readers to pray about what they should do instead of just doing what she recommends.

Yes, there are some people on these boards and elsewhere that mislead. In the last week or two i have seen posts warning me of condemnation for not living the united order today or taking multiple wives. But I don't see or feel the same things when I read Rowe's books or Sosa's book. And neither of them has said you won't be saved for ignoring what they say. They have expressed that life will be much more difficult, or maybe even shorter, for people who don't prepare for what they say is coming, but even those consequences aren't as bad as some would think. If I die this month I will be very disappointed over experiences I haven't had and progress I won't have the opportunity to make in mortality, but I will have new experiences and I will not lose any opportunity to continue growing spiritually or becoming the type of person who will one day become worthy of salvation through the Atonement.

[OCDMOM]

AOL Story: Global Markets could see a downfall if this Candidate wins. Can you guess who...Trump.

[gclayjr]

Brianj,

Through a process called reverse osmosis, alcohol can be removed from wine to the point where a glass of wine has less alcohol than a glass of fresh orange juice. Do you believe that it is wrong for me to say that I was inspired to know that it is wrong for me to drink wine with alcohol removed? I

''

You're right, we may be closer than it first appeared. My father, though poor as dirt, was "in to " French cooking. You can't do French cooking without using wine. My dad would tell me that it is no problem, because cooking, cooked out the alcohol. I never felt comfortable eating such dishes. (Which was pretty easy, because, unlike my father, I am a meat and potatoes man, and did not like such fru-fru cooking).

However, I would not judge my father as to how truly he followed the word of wisdom, just because he made choices I wouldn't.

Do you eat Vanilla Ice Cream? The vanilla extract has alcohol in it, and it is never cooked, so Vanilla Ice Cream, particularly home made Ice Cream, has some alcohol in it, although microscopic.

I think that I would just tell someone that I prefer to not eat foods cooked in wine or beer, or drink wine that had the alcohol removed by reverse osmosis, than to tell them that I felt INSPIRED, by god or received a REVELATION about this. At a minimum, I would sound judgmental about something that is well within accepted Church boundaries, and more likely, it might appear that I am telling you that I have received a REVELATION that what I am doing is right, and what they are doing is wrong... which would be crossing the line.

Regards,

George Clay

[kirtland r.m.]

For any on the forum who have not read any quotes from Hector Sosa's book, a change is coming, here is a quote to show what it is about. He tells that he is blessed with visions of the future, and he shares some of them. He is an active l.d.s. member.

I was thinking deeply about these things when my surroundings changed. I was no longer in my office space. Instead, I was in the middle of a large crowd in a distant U.S. city

I was on a sidewalk with many other people. In front of me I saw young black folks in T-shirts. I vividly remember the guy in front of me wearing a red T-shirt.

To my right were cars parked along the road. To my left was a building wall. I was being pushed along by a crowd going forward on the sidewalk. This looked like a typical residential neighborhood close to the city center, but I have no idea which city it was.

There was a palpable sense of fear, anger, and frustration among the people that surrounded me. They were in the road and on the opposite sidewalk as well.

I heard snippets of a few nearby conversations. Some people were talking about finding food, while others were talking about several stores that had already been cleaned out.

There was an angry buzz throughout the crowd when people started talking about going to the richer suburbs to get food. I had been walking with the crowd for a while, and I noticed we had reached an area that was much nicer than where I was when the vision began. The road was not patched up like in the earlier area, ad there was actually grass between the curb and the sidewalk.

We reached a nice suburb where the homes were surrounded by iron fences. The people started climbing these fences in droves to loot the homes.

The next thing I knew it was evening. The sun was going down. There was a big commotion up ahead of me, and the crowd rushed forward. I found myself in the middle of a very large and violent melee. I felt something strike me on the right side of my face, then on the bridge of my nose. My eyesight turned black, and I felt myself hit the sidewalk, landing on my side.

I opened my eyes, and I was several thousand feet in the air above southern Utah and northern Arizona. I was looking east. I saw pillars of smoke rising from cities all across the land. The eastern seaboard had a thick haze covering it. I learned that rioting was happening in many cities at the same time. I looked toward Texas and saw a few pillars of smoke, but nothing like what I saw along the East Coast.

I turned around to look at the West Coast. Southern California had a thick haze blowing out to the west. The haze thinned out heading northward about halfway up the state. The U.S. Northwest was also covered in smoky haze.

I looked down and noticed some smoke rising from Salt Lake City, but it was nothing like the other cities across the United States. In the West, the Phoenix metro area had the most smoke. Las Vegas had about the same amount as Salt Lake City.

I closed my eyes, and when I opened them again, I was looking at the front page of a newspaper. I wasn't able to see what the name of the newspaper was. Only the news stories themselves were clear.

One headline read: "New York Stock Exchange closes due to rapid drop in stock values."

To my right, I saw a TV showing footage of a news anchorman talking about the electronic safeguards kicking in on Wall Street and halting trading.

The anchorman said that after the third time this safeguard had been triggered, officials decided to stop trading at the New York Stock Exchange. I was made aware this had happened on a Monday.

The newspaper and the TV news changed quickly to Tuesday. It was a repeat of Monday. The newspaper and TV footage then switched to Wednesday, when the world was told the stock exchange was closed until further notice.

The talking heads on the TV news shows were all trying to put a positive spin on the bad news, but few people were buying their lies anymore.

Everything shifted forward to Friday. I ignored the TV news and looked at the newspaper. One big headline read: "Bankruptcies Announced."

I looked closer and saw a fairly long list of companies closing their doors. I was extremely surprised to see some very well-known companies on that list. I saw Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan.

I saw a blurb about Wells Fargo closing several divisions, but that the company was not completely going under. There were many other company names mentioned in the article that I did not recognize.

I spotted another headline that read: "300K Out of Work."

the newspaper moved away to my left and out of my sight. Then the TV moved directly in front of me. I stepped back as other TVs moved around the first TV, until I was facing a full wall of TVs.

Each TV was playing a different snippet of what was happening in regard to this financial crisis. There was too much information being thrown at me, and I was barely able to understand all of the voices talking.

The little bits and pieces I caught were very disturbing. Whole industries were shutting down, forcing tens of thousands of people out of work overnight. The most worrisome aspect, at least to me, was that many transportation companies simply stopped operating. They just turned off the lights and posted notices on their doors that they were out of business. This caused massive disruptions to all types of deliveries that were scheduled in the cities.

The people in the nation's rural areas fared much better, but they still suffered the effects of the financial meltdown.

This event will be known as Obsidian Monday, and it will happen soon. It will be a dark and sharp dagger that will cut out the heart of the American economy. Moloch is getting his sacrifice and his pound of flesh.

Have you not heard?
Sosa is a fraud.

My friend, if you know what I know, you would change your opinion.

May I ask, what do you know that is so convincing that you believe it validates what Mr. Sosa says? I'm genuinely curious.

I do know him personally. I know much more than is publicly known because I know him and he trusts me(although he keeps many things to himself and his family). He really only shares less than a half of what he is shown, much like KurtTheMormon on this forum, and I have more information from quite a few others who don't want sacred experiences shared outside of certain circles, and still not sharing most of what they know. I have my own personal revelation as well.

[Robin Hood]

I do know him personally. I know much more than is publicly known because I know him and he trusts me(although he keeps many things to himself and his family). He really only shares less than a half of what he is shown, much like KurtTheMormon on this forum, and I have more information from quite a few others who don't want sacred experiences shared outside of certain circles, and still not sharing most of what they know. I have my own personal revelation as well.

We've heard this kind of thing before.
Anyone remember the GAS "extra infornation" which turned out to be the biggest non-event in the forums history?
The very fact that he is claiming this completely disqualifies him in my opinion.
He's just playing with people and exploiting their vulnerabilities.
No doubt there will be a book with all this extra stuff in it when the bank balance dictates.

[DesertWonderer]

For any on the forum who have not read any quotes from Hector Sosa's book, a change is coming, here is a quote to show what it is about. He tells that he is blessed with visions of the future, and he shares some of them. He is an active l.d.s. member.

I was thinking deeply about these things when my surroundings changed. I was no longer in my office space. Instead, I was in the middle of a large crowd in a distant U.S. city

I was on a sidewalk with many other people. In front of me I saw young black folks in T-shirts. I vividly remember the guy in front of me wearing a red T-shirt.

To my right were cars parked along the road. To my left was a building wall. I was being pushed along by a crowd going forward on the sidewalk. This looked like a typical residential neighborhood close to the city center, but I have no idea which city it was.

There was a palpable sense of fear, anger, and frustration among the people that surrounded me. They were in the road and on the opposite sidewalk as well.

I heard snippets of a few nearby conversations. Some people were talking about finding food, while others were talking about several stores that had already been cleaned out.

There was an angry buzz throughout the crowd when people started talking about going to the richer suburbs to get food. I had been walking with the crowd for a while, and I noticed we had reached an area that was much nicer than where I was when the vision began. The road was not patched up like in the earlier area, ad there was actually grass between the curb and the sidewalk.

We reached a nice suburb where the homes were surrounded by iron fences. The people started climbing these fences in droves to loot the homes.

The next thing I knew it was evening. The sun was going down. There was a big commotion up ahead of me, and the crowd rushed forward. I found myself in the middle of a very large and violent melee. I felt something strike me on the right side of my face, then on the bridge of my nose. My eyesight turned black, and I felt myself hit the sidewalk, landing on my side.

I opened my eyes, and I was several thousand feet in the air above southern Utah and northern Arizona. I was looking east. I saw pillars of smoke rising from cities all across the land. The eastern seaboard had a thick haze covering it. I learned that rioting was happening in many cities at the same time. I looked toward Texas and saw a few pillars of smoke, but nothing like what I saw along the East Coast.

I turned around to look at the West Coast. Southern California had a thick haze blowing out to the west. The haze thinned out heading northward about halfway up the state. The U.S. Northwest was also covered in smoky haze.

I looked down and noticed some smoke rising from Salt Lake City, but it was nothing like the other cities across the United States. In the West, the Phoenix metro area had the most smoke. Las Vegas had about the same amount as Salt Lake City.

I closed my eyes, and when I opened them again, I was looking at the front page of a newspaper. I wasn't able to see what the name of the newspaper was. Only the news stories themselves were clear.

One headline read: "New York Stock Exchange closes due to rapid drop in stock values."

To my right, I saw a TV showing footage of a news anchorman talking about the electronic safeguards kicking in on Wall Street and halting trading.

The anchorman said that after the third time this safeguard had been triggered, officials decided to stop trading at the New York Stock Exchange. I was made aware this had happened on a Monday.

The newspaper and the TV news changed quickly to Tuesday. It was a repeat of Monday. The newspaper and TV footage then switched to Wednesday, when the world was told the stock exchange was closed until further notice.

The talking heads on the TV news shows were all trying to put a positive spin on the bad news, but few people were buying their lies anymore.

Everything shifted forward to Friday. I ignored the TV news and looked at the newspaper. One big headline read: "Bankruptcies Announced."

I looked closer and saw a fairly long list of companies closing their doors. I was extremely surprised to see some very well-known companies on that list. I saw Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan.

I saw a blurb about Wells Fargo closing several divisions, but that the company was not completely going under. There were many other company names mentioned in the article that I did not recognize.

I spotted another headline that read: "300K Out of Work."

the newspaper moved away to my left and out of my sight. Then the TV moved directly in front of me. I stepped back as other TVs moved around the first TV, until I was facing a full wall of TVs.

Each TV was playing a different snippet of what was happening in regard to this financial crisis. There was too much information being thrown at me, and I was barely able to understand all of the voices talking.

The little bits and pieces I caught were very disturbing. Whole industries were shutting down, forcing tens of thousands of people out of work overnight. The most worrisome aspect, at least to me, was that many transportation companies simply stopped operating. They just turned off the lights and posted notices on their doors that they were out of business. This caused massive disruptions to all types of deliveries that were scheduled in the cities.

The people in the nation's rural areas fared much better, but they still suffered the effects of the financial meltdown.

This event will be known as Obsidian Monday, and it will happen soon. It will be a dark and sharp dagger that will cut out the heart of the American economy. Moloch is getting his sacrifice and his pound of flesh.

Have you not heard?
Sosa is a fraud.

My friend, if you know what I know, you would change your opinion.

You must know then that Sosa is open about the fact that routinely evil spirits frequent his home. That should tell you all you need to know about Sosa.

[GrandMasterB]

For any on the forum who have not read any quotes from Hector Sosa's book, a change is coming, here is a quote to show what it is about. He tells that he is blessed with visions of the future, and he shares some of them. He is an active l.d.s. member.

I was thinking deeply about these things when my surroundings changed. I was no longer in my office space. Instead, I was in the middle of a large crowd in a distant U.S. city

I was on a sidewalk with many other people. In front of me I saw young black folks in T-shirts. I vividly remember the guy in front of me wearing a red T-shirt.

To my right were cars parked along the road. To my left was a building wall. I was being pushed along by a crowd going forward on the sidewalk. This looked like a typical residential neighborhood close to the city center, but I have no idea which city it was.

There was a palpable sense of fear, anger, and frustration among the people that surrounded me. They were in the road and on the opposite sidewalk as well.

I heard snippets of a few nearby conversations. Some people were talking about finding food, while others were talking about several stores that had already been cleaned out.

There was an angry buzz throughout the crowd when people started talking about going to the richer suburbs to get food. I had been walking with the crowd for a while, and I noticed we had reached an area that was much nicer than where I was when the vision began. The road was not patched up like in the earlier area, ad there was actually grass between the curb and the sidewalk.

We reached a nice suburb where the homes were surrounded by iron fences. The people started climbing these fences in droves to loot the homes.

The next thing I knew it was evening. The sun was going down. There was a big commotion up ahead of me, and the crowd rushed forward. I found myself in the middle of a very large and violent melee. I felt something strike me on the right side of my face, then on the bridge of my nose. My eyesight turned black, and I felt myself hit the sidewalk, landing on my side.

I opened my eyes, and I was several thousand feet in the air above southern Utah and northern Arizona. I was looking east. I saw pillars of smoke rising from cities all across the land. The eastern seaboard had a thick haze covering it. I learned that rioting was happening in many cities at the same time. I looked toward Texas and saw a few pillars of smoke, but nothing like what I saw along the East Coast.

I turned around to look at the West Coast. Southern California had a thick haze blowing out to the west. The haze thinned out heading northward about halfway up the state. The U.S. Northwest was also covered in smoky haze.

I looked down and noticed some smoke rising from Salt Lake City, but it was nothing like the other cities across the United States. In the West, the Phoenix metro area had the most smoke. Las Vegas had about the same amount as Salt Lake City.

I closed my eyes, and when I opened them again, I was looking at the front page of a newspaper. I wasn't able to see what the name of the newspaper was. Only the news stories themselves were clear.

One headline read: "New York Stock Exchange closes due to rapid drop in stock values."

To my right, I saw a TV showing footage of a news anchorman talking about the electronic safeguards kicking in on Wall Street and halting trading.

The anchorman said that after the third time this safeguard had been triggered, officials decided to stop trading at the New York Stock Exchange. I was made aware this had happened on a Monday.

The newspaper and the TV news changed quickly to Tuesday. It was a repeat of Monday. The newspaper and TV footage then switched to Wednesday, when the world was told the stock exchange was closed until further notice.

The talking heads on the TV news shows were all trying to put a positive spin on the bad news, but few people were buying their lies anymore.

Everything shifted forward to Friday. I ignored the TV news and looked at the newspaper. One big headline read: "Bankruptcies Announced."

I looked closer and saw a fairly long list of companies closing their doors. I was extremely surprised to see some very well-known companies on that list. I saw Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan.

I saw a blurb about Wells Fargo closing several divisions, but that the company was not completely going under. There were many other company names mentioned in the article that I did not recognize.

I spotted another headline that read: "300K Out of Work."

the newspaper moved away to my left and out of my sight. Then the TV moved directly in front of me. I stepped back as other TVs moved around the first TV, until I was facing a full wall of TVs.

Each TV was playing a different snippet of what was happening in regard to this financial crisis. There was too much information being thrown at me, and I was barely able to understand all of the voices talking.

The little bits and pieces I caught were very disturbing. Whole industries were shutting down, forcing tens of thousands of people out of work overnight. The most worrisome aspect, at least to me, was that many transportation companies simply stopped operating. They just turned off the lights and posted notices on their doors that they were out of business. This caused massive disruptions to all types of deliveries that were scheduled in the cities.

The people in the nation's rural areas fared much better, but they still suffered the effects of the financial meltdown.

This event will be known as Obsidian Monday, and it will happen soon. It will be a dark and sharp dagger that will cut out the heart of the American economy. Moloch is getting his sacrifice and his pound of flesh.

Have you not heard?
Sosa is a fraud.

My friend, if you know what I know, you would change your opinion.

You must know then that Sosa is open about the fact that routinely evil spirits frequent his home. That should tell you all you need to know about Sosa.

How is this possible?!

[brianj]

ou must know then that Sosa is open about the fact that routinely evil spirits frequent his home. That should tell you all you need to know about Sosa.

It doesn't tell me everything that I need or want to know, but it does tell me enough. The presence of evil spirits indicates that Sosa is righteous enough that evil spirits need to devote attention to him. If Sosa doesn't have evil spirits around him any time he is not in a temple, I would be very disturbed.

[rewcox]

Have you not heard?
Sosa is a fraud.

My friend, if you know what I know, you would change your opinion.

You must know then that Sosa is open about the fact that routinely evil spirits frequent his home. That should tell you all you need to know about Sosa.

How is this possible?!

Are we there yet?

[Older/wiser?]

My only concern then should be that Elder Holland and the rest of the apostles , and Pres. Monson aren't surrounded by evil spirits. I respect your posts brianj , but going by that statement then those whom I know are righteous should be surrounded by evil spirits? Surely that can not be a sign of righteousness nor a visionary.

[DesertWonderer]

ou must know then that Sosa is open about the fact that routinely evil spirits frequent his home. That should tell you all you need to know about Sosa.

It doesn't tell me everything that I need or want to know, but it does tell me enough. The presence of evil spirits indicates that Sosa is righteous enough that evil spirits need to devote attention to him. Simply not true. If Sosa doesn't have evil spirits around him any time he is not in a temple, I would be very disturbed. I'm disturbed that you are disturbed.

[shadow]

The presence of evil spirits indicates that Sosa is UNrighteous enough that evil spirits need to devote attention to him.

The opposite is true. Evil people have evil spirits around. Birds of a feather flock together...

[96walker]

ou must know then that Sosa is open about the fact that routinely evil spirits frequent his home. That should tell you all you need to know about Sosa.

It doesn't tell me everything that I need or want to know, but it does tell me enough. The presence of evil spirits indicates that Sosa is righteous enough that evil spirits need to devote attention to him. Simply not true. If Sosa doesn't have evil spirits around him any time he is not in a temple, I would be very disturbed. I'm disturbed that you are disturbed.

I completely agree with BrianJ. I would expect evil spirits to try and stop righteous saints from doing anything good and praiseworthy. See the below story from Wilford Woodruff on a very similar topic. Also recall the Saint George Temple President from many years ago with the same type story.

http://www.moroni10.com/mormon_history/ ... stles.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;