Hector Sosa/Julie Rowe Update.

[Isaiah]

People CAN and DO predict things and can see things before they happen.
DON"T judge people just because they have had a dream, vision, NDE, etc. or whatever,
and have tried to warn others about it.
If it doesn't happen - then ALL THE BETTER - NO BIG DEAL.
and if it does happen then aren't you glad that someone told you about it, and you listened and prepared for it.

We should all be more appreciative that someone is willing to tell us what they saw
at the risk of being cut down, ridiculed, and criticized by others.

My wife has had 2 dreams about earthquakes just before they happened.
The last one was just a few days ago when she woke up from a dream crying because
see saw a terrible earthquake.
We found out a few hours later that a BIG quake had just hit Italy.
I'm sure most of you saw it in the news headlines.
---------------------------------------------------------------
These scriptures may or may not apply to this
but they DO mention dreams and visions, and the Lord pouring out his spirit in these last days.

The Acts of the Apostles and (Joel 2:28-32)
Chapter 2

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days,
saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens
I will pour out in those days of my Spirit;
and they shall prophesy:

[kirtland r.m.]

Not a peep from Julie Rowe, she has gone quiet as she said she would.

It interesting that her going quiet and receiving donated land for her family to live on are during the same couple of weeks. Care to explain why PTZ removed her membership and deleted all her posts as well? Or why she has cancelled all of the Greater Tomorrow Relief Fund meetings?

Ask her personal questions, if you think your info. is accurate, her website is still up. And as for me, I am a member of PTZ and have seen some things posted on this forum that are half truths, and exaggerations from time to time. I don't feel the need to fix everything all of the time written about PTZ. Also, like KurtTheMormon and others, I don't post everything I know. The backing and filling continues on the forum for now. When I get hard info. I can post, I will.
I have posted over and over about receiving personal revelation on this subject, which seems to be largely ignored by J.R., H.S, Sarah M. detractors. I have also now posted over one hundred scripture and G.A. quotes, talked with G.A.S. prophesy witness, and have more I haven't written. One of the first things we will see, I believe, is the economy tank, and a warning earthquake. It would also be good to read that four part series I wrote about that came from someone I personally know, who spoke with the G.A.S. family member,(Horne family ) Who gave more detail than I was given. This is not about me, it is about not panicking when things really get tough, it is about having our lamps full, and relying on the Lord. This information will be very valuable.Take care my friends.

[Summerwind]

People CAN and DO predict things and can see things before they happen.
DON"T judge people just because they have had a dream, vision, NDE, etc. or whatever,
and have tried to warn others about it.
If it doesn't happen - then ALL THE BETTER - NO BIG DEAL.
and if it does happen then aren't you glad that someone told you about it, and you listened and prepared for it.

We should all be more appreciative that someone is willing to tell us what they saw
at the risk of being cut down, ridiculed, and criticized by others.

My wife has had 2 dreams about earthquakes just before they happened.
The last one was just a few days ago when she woke up from a dream crying because
see saw a terrible earthquake.
We found out a few hours later that a BIG quake had just hit Italy.
I'm sure most of you saw it in the news headlines.
---------------------------------------------------------------
These scriptures may or may not apply to this
but they DO mention dreams and visions, and the Lord pouring out his spirit in these last days.

The Acts of the Apostles and (Joel 2:28-32)
Chapter 2

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days,
saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens
I will pour out in those days of my Spirit;
and they shall prophesy:

I've had dreams also - but they were meant for me and not for the world. Those dreams and things I was shown directly contradict many of the things that JR discusses. Hence my reason for not believing her.

[DesertWonderer]

The Church has quite a different take of food storage than JR et al...

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/food-storage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PRINT EMAIL TOPICFood Storage
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are encouraged by their leaders to store a three-month supply of food. This stems from one of the Church’s guiding welfare principles: self-reliance.

President Thomas S. Monson explained, “Self-reliance is a product of our work and undergirds all other welfare practices. It is an essential element in our spiritual as well as our temporal well-being.”

downloadDry pack cannery
Dry pack cannery
Food storage
Food storage
Food storage

1 of 3 The Church currently operates 101 home storage centers in the United States and Canada where food storage items such as beans, dry milk, wheat, rice and sugar may be purchased © All rights reserved.
Based on that counsel to care for ourselves and our families in the routine or extenuating circumstances of life, Latter-day Saints store and use food and water in their homes that would sustain them in the event of weather-related catastrophes, illness or economic challenges. (See the Church’s All Is Safely Gathered In: Family Finances pamphlet for more information.)

Occasionally this storage guideline is publicly misconstrued and emphasis is placed on gathering an abundant cache of foodstuffs to stave off unexpected disasters. Such a response is unusual in Mormon culture, where a simple guideline suggesting the accumulation of a three-month food and water supply falls into the overall Church welfare philosophy of preparedness in every aspect of life.

"The Church has created a strong culture of preparedness among its members," said Gail McGovern, president and CEO of the American Red Cross. "I believe it can be a model for others throughout the country."

As people become self-reliant, they are better prepared to endure adversities and are “better able to serve and care for others,” advises the Church’s handbook (Handbook 2: Administering the Church [2010], 6.1.1).

[Rensai]

The Church has quite a different take of food storage than JR et al...
Occasionally this storage guideline is publicly misconstrued and emphasis is placed on gathering an abundant cache of foodstuffs to stave off unexpected disasters. Such a response is unusual in Mormon culture, where a simple guideline suggesting the accumulation of a three-month food and water supply falls into the overall Church welfare philosophy of preparedness in every aspect of life.

I'm no fan of JR and the rest, but this quote is very misleading. In the past the church has taught from general conference and other talks that that is exactly what the food storage is for and originally members were asked to store years of supplies. Just because the church has watered it down and now wants to de-emphasize that now doesn't make it less true. ETB equated foood storage to being on the ark for crying out loud. That type of talk is where the idea comes from and its been around long before JR.

In his general conference address "Prepare Ye," delivered in 1973, the late prophet President Ezra Taft Benson said, "The revelation to store food may be as essential to our temporal salvation today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah."

This is just one example. There are numerous talks from the church linking food storage to disasters and end time events.

[Rensai]

People CAN and DO predict things and can see things before they happen.
DON"T judge people just because they have had a dream, vision, NDE, etc. or whatever,
and have tried to warn others about it.
If it doesn't happen - then ALL THE BETTER - NO BIG DEAL.
and if it does happen then aren't you glad that someone told you about it, and you listened and prepared for it.

We should all be more appreciative that someone is willing to tell us what they saw
at the risk of being cut down, ridiculed, and criticized by others.

My wife has had 2 dreams about earthquakes just before they happened.
The last one was just a few days ago when she woke up from a dream crying because
see saw a terrible earthquake.
We found out a few hours later that a BIG quake had just hit Italy.
I'm sure most of you saw it in the news headlines.
---------------------------------------------------------------
These scriptures may or may not apply to this
but they DO mention dreams and visions, and the Lord pouring out his spirit in these last days.

The Acts of the Apostles and (Joel 2:28-32)
Chapter 2

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days,
saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens
I will pour out in those days of my Spirit;
and they shall prophesy:

Yes, some people are surely receiving visions and dreams from God. That doesn't mean JR and the rest are. if they are, they wouldn't be out trying to make money off of it. They are writing books, making public appearances, etc. They ARE making MONEY off of this stuff. That means, at BEST it is priestcraft and the Lord would not give them visions or dreams for that purpose. That is one reason I dismiss them. Another reason is because they've all been proven wrong and have revised their timelines multiple times, changed the story, etc. There is absolutely no reason to believe these people. They exhibit all the warning signs of a false prophet and as a counter to the scripture you quote, we have matthew 24:11.

11 And many afalse prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

So we know there will be real visions and dreams given to some and there will be many false prophets with false visions, etc. Now where does that leave us? We have to determine which is which. If you want to defend JR or someone else, you'll have to show that their fruits are good, their prophecies have been proven, they aren't charging money for the word, etc. From what I can see, all these people publishing books, etc have proven themselves false.

[gungadin500]

The Church has quite a different take of food storage than JR et al...

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/food-storage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PRINT EMAIL TOPICFood Storage
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are encouraged by their leaders to store a three-month supply of food. This stems from one of the Church’s guiding welfare principles: self-reliance.

President Thomas S. Monson explained, “Self-reliance is a product of our work and undergirds all other welfare practices. It is an essential element in our spiritual as well as our temporal well-being.”

downloadDry pack cannery
Dry pack cannery
Food storage
Food storage
Food storage

1 of 3 The Church currently operates 101 home storage centers in the United States and Canada where food storage items such as beans, dry milk, wheat, rice and sugar may be purchased © All rights reserved.
Based on that counsel to care for ourselves and our families in the routine or extenuating circumstances of life, Latter-day Saints store and use food and water in their homes that would sustain them in the event of weather-related catastrophes, illness or economic challenges. (See the Church’s All Is Safely Gathered In: Family Finances pamphlet for more information.)

Occasionally this storage guideline is publicly misconstrued and emphasis is placed on gathering an abundant cache of foodstuffs to stave off unexpected disasters. Such a response is unusual in Mormon culture, where a simple guideline suggesting the accumulation of a three-month food and water supply falls into the overall Church welfare philosophy of preparedness in every aspect of life.

"The Church has created a strong culture of preparedness among its members," said Gail McGovern, president and CEO of the American Red Cross. "I believe it can be a model for others throughout the country."

As people become self-reliant, they are better prepared to endure adversities and are “better able to serve and care for others,” advises the Church’s handbook (Handbook 2: Administering the Church [2010], 6.1.1).

The emphasis on all families accumulating a 3-month supply is clear. Just a couple of points - the phrase "abundant" is inherently ambiguous. The FBI would likely consider you to be a suspicious person if you were to buy your entire 3-month supply in one shopping trip, especially if you paid in cash. http://www.shtfplan.com/images/articlep ... sStore.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It is easy to find videos of Rand Paul reading from a document stating that persons with more than 7 days of food/water storage could be domestic terrorists/extremists, but I've never seen that actual flyer. My only point is that the emphasis is actually on a 3-month supply, to be followed by a "longer term" supply as clearly discussed on the lds.org food storage page. I don't know what Julie Rowe recommends, but it is clear that many people would consider even the 3-month supply to be an "abundant cache," much less any long term food storage.

[DesertWonderer]

The Church has quite a different take of food storage than JR et al...
Occasionally this storage guideline is publicly misconstrued and emphasis is placed on gathering an abundant cache of foodstuffs to stave off unexpected disasters. Such a response is unusual in Mormon culture, where a simple guideline suggesting the accumulation of a three-month food and water supply falls into the overall Church welfare philosophy of preparedness in every aspect of life.

I'm no fan of JR and the rest, but this quote is very misleading. In the past the church has taught from general conference and other talks that that is exactly what the food storage is for and originally members were asked to store years of supplies. Just because the church has watered it down and now wants to de-emphasize that now doesn't make it less true. ETB equated foood storage to being on the ark for crying out loud. That type of talk is where the idea comes from and its been around long before JR.

In his general conference address "Prepare Ye," delivered in 1973, the late prophet President Ezra Taft Benson said, "The revelation to store food may be as essential to our temporal salvation today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah."

This is just one example. There are numerous talks from the church linking food storage to disasters and end time events.

Why then would they "water it down"? It seems like you are saying The Church is purposely misleading us with this statement or do I misunderstand you?If so, why would they do that?

Is it possible that a more complete understanding of the truth of things develops over time (i.e. line upon line)?

[Summerwind]

The church is a bit more worldwide now and they still say where possible to have a larger food supply, but in some areas, it's against the law of the country to store more than 3 months worth of food and supplies. If you discuss it with your local leadership, He can guide you as to what the directions are for your specific area.

[Rensai]

The Church has quite a different take of food storage than JR et al...
Occasionally this storage guideline is publicly misconstrued and emphasis is placed on gathering an abundant cache of foodstuffs to stave off unexpected disasters. Such a response is unusual in Mormon culture, where a simple guideline suggesting the accumulation of a three-month food and water supply falls into the overall Church welfare philosophy of preparedness in every aspect of life.

I'm no fan of JR and the rest, but this quote is very misleading. In the past the church has taught from general conference and other talks that that is exactly what the food storage is for and originally members were asked to store years of supplies. Just because the church has watered it down and now wants to de-emphasize that now doesn't make it less true. ETB equated foood storage to being on the ark for crying out loud. That type of talk is where the idea comes from and its been around long before JR.

In his general conference address "Prepare Ye," delivered in 1973, the late prophet President Ezra Taft Benson said, "The revelation to store food may be as essential to our temporal salvation today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah."

This is just one example. There are numerous talks from the church linking food storage to disasters and end time events.

Why then would they "water it down"? It seems like you are saying The Church is purposely misleading us with this statement or do I misunderstand you?If so, why would they do that?

Is it possible that a more complete understanding of the truth of things develops over time (i.e. line upon line)?

You'd have to ask whoever wrote the article those questions. I have no idea, but if you do some google searches or look through this forum for statements on food storage from leaders in the past the facts are indisputable and very clearly support the idea that food storage is critical for us to have if we want to survive end times or other disasters, etc.

[Isaiah]

People CAN and DO predict things and can see things before they happen.
DON"T judge people just because they have had a dream, vision, NDE, etc. or whatever,
and have tried to warn others about it.
If it doesn't happen - then ALL THE BETTER - NO BIG DEAL.
and if it does happen then aren't you glad that someone told you about it, and you listened and prepared for it.

We should all be more appreciative that someone is willing to tell us what they saw
at the risk of being cut down, ridiculed, and criticized by others.
---------------------------------------------------------------
These scriptures may or may not apply to this
but they DO mention dreams and visions, and the Lord pouring out his spirit in these last days.

The Acts of the Apostles and (Joel 2:28-32)
Chapter 2

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days,
saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens
I will pour out in those days of my Spirit;
and they shall prophesy:

Yes, some people are surely receiving visions and dreams from God. That doesn't mean JR and the rest are. if they are, they wouldn't be out trying to make money off of it. They are writing books, making public appearances, etc. They ARE making MONEY off of this stuff. That means, at BEST it is priestcraft and the Lord would not give them visions or dreams for that purpose. That is one reason I dismiss them. Another reason is because they've all been proven wrong and have revised their timelines multiple times, changed the story, etc. There is absolutely no reason to believe these people. They exhibit all the warning signs of a false prophet and as a counter to the scripture you quote, we have matthew 24:11.

11 And many afalse prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

So we know there will be real visions and dreams given to some and there will be many false prophets with false visions, etc. Now where does that leave us? We have to determine which is which. If you want to defend JR or someone else, you'll have to show that their fruits are good, their prophecies have been proven, they aren't charging money for the word, etc. From what I can see, all these people publishing books, etc have proven themselves false.

That's soooo Ridiculous
you know you couldn't be more wrong.
you are totally mislead.

It's obvious that all these people are not out there just trying to deceive you,
and take your money and run. or want to be in the spotlight, What a joke !

I'm sure that there are many that have had these experiences and felt
that they didn't even want to share them simple because of people like you
that would be very critical of them, and that for some, it was a very personal and private
experience for them and did not want to tell others about it at all.
Then there are others that want or that have been told to share their experience with all that they can,
so they write them down - these NDE, dreams and visions and put them in a book so MANY can read them.
It's sooo ridiculous to think that these people made these things up - purposely trying to deceive people
and then put them in a book so that they can just make some money from it. lol

People like you seem to think that just because someone has said something
and it doesn't come true, then everything they say is a lie.
and are labeled a liar, a deceiver, a fake, a fraud, etc.
out to take your money. how ridiculous.
I hope the Lord has more tolerance with YOU.

I believe that when a person has a NDE, first of all it is very personal,
but secondly, it is a lot like a dream -
not ALL things we dream about come true. But some things do.
Most of us have had a dream and then later in the future
we see it comes true, or, it plays out in our lives the way we
saw it in our dream, or in some similar way.

If a person touches death, and temporarily crosses over the veil.
and comes back to life and tells what they saw;
I really don't think that they are just out there trying to make
money and deceive you; even if what they say doesn't happen.

Before judging others ask yourself -
are you perfect ?
are you ALWAYS is tune with the Lords spirit so that he speaks
through you and EVERYTHING you say will happen ? NO
(I think that the prophets themselves sometimes even have
a hard time with that one.)
so don't expect it of others when their predictions don't happen
instead be glad that it didn't happen.
WE ARE ALL fallible not infallible.

Dreams and Visions and Prophesying play an important role in our church
and are part of our legacy; they're in our scriptures EVERYWHERE.
Where would or church be today without them !
"Joseph Smith's First Vision"

NDE are very special and are like visions, and dreams.
And If the Lord wants to show someone visions of the future
while on the other side of the veil, then so be it.
Who am I to say that he hasn't ?
And just because it doesn't come from some church official
doesn't mean that it's not true.
"I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh" "in the last days and they shall prophesy"

[Summerwind]

Question Isaiah - would you trust your own experiences (visions, dreams, NDE, etc.) over someone else's? Or would you take their word for it if they contradict your own and disregard your experiences?

[DesertWonderer]

That's soooo Ridiculous
you know you couldn't be more wrong.
you are totally mislead.

It's obvious that all these people are not out there just to trying to deceive you,
and take your money and run. or want to be in the spotlight, What a joke !
]

Please be specific. Exactly who has given us visions and NOT tried to deceive?

I can tell you who has done just that if you'd be interested.

[Rensai]

People CAN and DO predict things and can see things before they happen.
DON"T judge people just because they have had a dream, vision, NDE, etc. or whatever,
and have tried to warn others about it.
If it doesn't happen - then ALL THE BETTER - NO BIG DEAL.
and if it does happen then aren't you glad that someone told you about it, and you listened and prepared for it.

We should all be more appreciative that someone is willing to tell us what they saw
at the risk of being cut down, ridiculed, and criticized by others.
---------------------------------------------------------------
These scriptures may or may not apply to this
but they DO mention dreams and visions, and the Lord pouring out his spirit in these last days.

The Acts of the Apostles and (Joel 2:28-32)
Chapter 2

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days,
saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens
I will pour out in those days of my Spirit;
and they shall prophesy:

Yes, some people are surely receiving visions and dreams from God. That doesn't mean JR and the rest are. if they are, they wouldn't be out trying to make money off of it. They are writing books, making public appearances, etc. They ARE making MONEY off of this stuff. That means, at BEST it is priestcraft and the Lord would not give them visions or dreams for that purpose. That is one reason I dismiss them. Another reason is because they've all been proven wrong and have revised their timelines multiple times, changed the story, etc. There is absolutely no reason to believe these people. They exhibit all the warning signs of a false prophet and as a counter to the scripture you quote, we have matthew 24:11.

11 And many afalse prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

So we know there will be real visions and dreams given to some and there will be many false prophets with false visions, etc. Now where does that leave us? We have to determine which is which. If you want to defend JR or someone else, you'll have to show that their fruits are good, their prophecies have been proven, they aren't charging money for the word, etc. From what I can see, all these people publishing books, etc have proven themselves false.

That's soooo Ridiculous
you know you couldn't be more wrong.
you are totally mislead.

It's obvious that all these people are not out there just to trying to deceive you,
and take your money and run. or want to be in the spotlight, What a joke !

I'm sure that there are many that have had these experiences and felt
that they didn't even want to share them simple because of people like you
that would be very critical of them, and that for some, it was a very personal and private
experience for them and did not want to tell others about it at all.
Then there are others that want or that have been told to share their experience with all that they can,
so they write them down - these NDE, dreams and visions and put them in a book so MANY can read them.
It's sooo ridiculous to think that these people made these things up - purposely trying to deceive people
and then put them in a book so that they can just make some money from it. lol

People like you seem to think that just because someone has said something
and it doesn't come true, then everything they say is a lie.
and are labeled a liar, a deceiver, a fake, a fraud, etc.
out to take your money. how ridiculous.
I hope the Lord has more tolerance with YOU.

I believe that when a person has a NDE, first of all it is very personal,
but secondly, it is a lot like a dream -
not ALL things we dream about come true. But some things do.
Most of us have had a dream and then later in the future
we see it comes true, or, it plays out in our lives the way we
saw it in our dream, or in some similar way.

If a person touches death, and temporarily crosses over the veil.
and comes back to life and tells what they saw;
I really don't think that they are just out there trying to make
money and deceive you; even if what they say doesn't happen.

Before judging others ask yourself -
are you perfect ?
are you ALWAYS is tune with the Lords spirit so that he speaks
through you and EVERYTHING you say will happen ? NO
(I think that the prophets themselves sometimes even have
a hard time with that one.)
so don't expect it of others when their predictions don't happen
instead be glad that it didn't happen.
WE ARE ALL fallible not infallible.

Dreams and Visions and Prophesying play an important role in our church
and are part of our legacy; they're in our scriptures EVERYWHERE.
Where would or church be today without them !
"Joseph Smith's First Vision"

NDE are very special and are like visions, and dreams.
And If the Lord wants to show someone visions of the future
while on the other side of the veil, then so be it.
Who am I to say that he hasn't ?
And just because it doesn't come from some church official
doesn't mean that it's not true.
"I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh" "in the last days and they shall prophesy"

Shame on you sir. You write a post laden with personal attacks and ridicule and then have the nerve to end by lecturing me on judging?? You offer absolutely nothing but generalities and personal attacks to defend these people. If you want to post examples of times they have been right or argue their merits in some meaningful way, I'm game. I think their fruits are clear, but if you can show otherwise I'm willing to reconsider my view on any given one of them. Until then, I stand by what I said and all your insults will not change a thing.

Now that said, I do agree with much of what you said in GENERAL. I know visions and dreams are important to the church. I know they are in the scriptures. I am not judging everyone that's ever had a dream as a fraud. I find many of the dreams people have shared very interesting at least and so in general, I agree they should be given a fair chance. However, I've seen JR backpedal her words and change them as her predictions continue to fail. Same with the others' dreams that are mentioned here. They have also all made money from them. I am saying that they, SPECIFICALLY, have failed to show any good fruits that I've seen. That does not mean all dreams are false or lies, etc.

EDIT: Just to be as clear as possible. I have 2 main issues with JR and those like her. First, they are making money. The scriptures teaches us that that is priest craft. Second, they have not been right about a single prediction yet that I am aware of.

You attempted to defend the book profits by saying:

so they write them down - these NDE, dreams and visions and put them in a book so MANY can read them.

I reject that reasoning because we have far better options if it was just about getting the word out. They could publish a website for a very cheap cost. Web hosts are as little as 2-3 dollars per month now. If that doesn't work, they could publish an E-book through Amazon for less than a dollar. Either way would make their words far more accessible than a full priced book so as I see it, your reasoning fails. Can you offer anything better?

Now for the second point. Show me a prediction from JR or Sosa, etc that has been correct.

If you cannot defend them on either of those points then on what basis would you claim their fruits are good? Please be specific to JR, Sosa, etc because that is who we are specifically talking about.

[iWriteStuff]

Now for the second point. Show me a prediction from JR or Sosa, etc that has been correct.

JR defenders can't, because there aren't any predictions that have been correct. There's a whole thread on this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42386" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AI2.0]

The Church has quite a different take of food storage than JR et al...
Occasionally this storage guideline is publicly misconstrued and emphasis is placed on gathering an abundant cache of foodstuffs to stave off unexpected disasters. Such a response is unusual in Mormon culture, where a simple guideline suggesting the accumulation of a three-month food and water supply falls into the overall Church welfare philosophy of preparedness in every aspect of life.

I'm no fan of JR and the rest, but this quote is very misleading. In the past the church has taught from general conference and other talks that that is exactly what the food storage is for and originally members were asked to store years of supplies. Just because the church has watered it down and now wants to de-emphasize that now doesn't make it less true. ETB equated foood storage to being on the ark for crying out loud. That type of talk is where the idea comes from and its been around long before JR.

In his general conference address "Prepare Ye," delivered in 1973, the late prophet President Ezra Taft Benson said, "The revelation to store food may be as essential to our temporal salvation today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah."

This is just one example. There are numerous talks from the church linking food storage to disasters and end time events.

I disagree with your perception that they have 'watered down' the message and that, in essence, the counsel from earlier leaders is more inspired and should be followed and not the counsel from present day leaders. This is one reason why;

The world was a different place when those leaders spoke. They gave counsel which was right for members at that time and I'm certain that you could find members who were literally saved from disaster because they followed the counsel to have 2 years supply etc. But, I believe that our present day leaders are giving counsel which is RIGHT and INSPIRED FOR OUR TIME AND OUR MEMBERS.

If YOU feel personally, spiritually prompted and have the resources to have more supplies, then by all means, store them. Heeding those promptings may be what saves YOU and your loved ones or others around you, temporally, one day. But, IMO, your perceptions on this topic are not faith building and even sow seeds of doubt in modern revelation and can create anxiety among members who have less than you, and/or are not in a position to do anything other than have the bare minimum of storage items--but still are in compliance with what is being taught today.

[Rensai]

The Church has quite a different take of food storage than JR et al...
Occasionally this storage guideline is publicly misconstrued and emphasis is placed on gathering an abundant cache of foodstuffs to stave off unexpected disasters. Such a response is unusual in Mormon culture, where a simple guideline suggesting the accumulation of a three-month food and water supply falls into the overall Church welfare philosophy of preparedness in every aspect of life.

I'm no fan of JR and the rest, but this quote is very misleading. In the past the church has taught from general conference and other talks that that is exactly what the food storage is for and originally members were asked to store years of supplies. Just because the church has watered it down and now wants to de-emphasize that now doesn't make it less true. ETB equated foood storage to being on the ark for crying out loud. That type of talk is where the idea comes from and its been around long before JR.

In his general conference address "Prepare Ye," delivered in 1973, the late prophet President Ezra Taft Benson said, "The revelation to store food may be as essential to our temporal salvation today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah."

This is just one example. There are numerous talks from the church linking food storage to disasters and end time events.

I disagree with your perception that they have 'watered down' the message and that, in essence, the counsel from earlier leaders is more inspired and should be followed and not the counsel from present day leaders. This is one reason why;

The world was a different place when those leaders spoke. They gave counsel which was right for members at that time and I'm certain that you could find members who were literally saved from disaster because they followed the counsel to have 2 years supply etc. But, I believe that our present day leaders are giving counsel which is RIGHT and INSPIRED FOR OUR TIME AND OUR MEMBERS.

If YOU feel personally, spiritually prompted and have the resources to have more supplies, then by all means, store them. Heeding those promptings may be what saves YOU and your loved ones or others around you, temporally, one day. But, IMO, your perceptions on this topic are not faith building and even sow seeds of doubt in modern revelation and can create anxiety among members who have less than you, and/or are not in a position to do anything other than have the bare minimum of storage items--but still are in compliance with what is being taught today.

I think you've misunderstood my point. I'm not arguing about what amount of resources is correct or how inspired the leaders are, etc. I'm stating a simple fact that in the past the church most definitely gave the impression that food storage was for end times and other serious disasters. They likened it to being on Noahs ark and therefore, the statement from that newsroom is incorrect and misleading. I gave one example but there are so many quotes from past leaders linking food storage to disasters that there is no reasonable way to defend this statement from the news article that I was commenting on.

Here's the specific quote I was referencing again:

Occasionally this storage guideline is publicly misconstrued and emphasis is placed on gathering an abundant cache of foodstuffs to stave off unexpected disasters.[/size] Such a response is unusual in Mormon culture, where a simple guideline suggesting the accumulation of a three-month food and water supply falls into the overall Church welfare philosophy of preparedness in every aspect of life.

First Point: Church members were originally told to have 7 years of food storage. This directly relates to Daniels week of disasters in end times. Then the counsel was 2 years, then 1 year. What could you possibly need a year or more of food for except disaster?

Second Point: I gave one example, but I've seen literally at least a dozen different leaders talk about food storage being linked to disasters. Saying that members who link food storage to disaster are misconstruing things or that such a belief is "unusual" is not true.

Now, once again, I'm not speculating about any reasoning for why its changed to 3 months or what amount is correct. I am simply stating that the news article said people "misconstrued" food storage by emphasizing that its for disasters. That is clearly false. No one is misconstruing anything. Leaders and food storage counsel have flat out told us its for disasters in the past. That is all I'm stating. Just a plain, simple fact that I don't see how anyone can argue with.

Finally, watered down is exactly the right term. In the past we have leaders like ETB telling us food storage is as important as being on Noah's ark. In other words, you'll die without it and that type of talk was said by many leaders. It probably originated with Brigham Young. For example, in the teaching of Brigham young manual, chapter 3, it says:

My warfare is, and has been for years, to get the people to understand that if they do not take care of themselves they will not be taken care of; that if we do not lay the foundation to feed and clothe and shelter ourselves we shall perish with hunger and with cold; we might also suffer in the summer season from the direct rays of the sun upon our naked and unprotected bodies (DBY, 16–17).

When you go from telling members, "you will all die if you do not get food storage" to something like " the accumulation of a three-month food and water supply falls into the overall Church welfare philosophy of preparedness in every aspect of life," you can't get a much clearer example of watered down. Its also watered down in the sense that it started as 7 years and is now down to a 3 month supply. That too is exactly the definition of watering the food storage policy down.

The church's statements and policies about food storage are easy to google up. I find the words quoted from that article offensive because they say people are "misconstruing" what food storage is about when in fact, it was the church itself that gave everyone that idea through leaders in the past. That's all. I don't care how much food storage anyone has, I don't care why the church has changed policies or which leaders are right etc. My original post said nothing about any of that, you simply assumed that on your own. It was just a simple post showing that that quote is very misleading. Its not a matter of opinion. There's nothing for you to disagree with me on. Its a simple statement of fact.

[Summerwind]

... and here we see that prophets and apostles are no longer good enough for people, and instead they invest in those with no authority at all. The judgment of mortals is ultimately fallible.

[Serve]

Has any one read the vision of the profit John Taylor I'm new to this web site but as my understanding is if the prophets have seen a vision or dream then it is open to any one if you have read JR books or any other books about their visions like Visions Of Golory what is the differentness from one vision or dream to the next ?

[Serve]

They have not watered down the food storage policie it is against the law to have more than a three month supply of food storage its called the hoarding law giving to us by Bill Clinton I think ,so they have to call it a three month food storage

[kirtland r.m.]

I think the reason this topic has gotten so contentious is that some are so emotionally caught up in the insistence that we all must accept these claims and I am dismayed by the implication that because some of us aren't accepting these 'dreamers' as true messengers from God, we're trying to harm the humble 'christians' on LDSFF.

:ymapplause:

I've been sharing most of the quotes that Kirtland throws out since the mid to late 80's. Some came later, so I can't say I've discussed and/or shared them for that long. He hasn't yet given me any new information. I've stayed away from timelines on purpose, though I'd sure like to know "when" so I can finish off any last minute preps. Kirtland likes to put timeframes on things. that is a problem. If you don't understand why it is a problem I don't know how to get that through to you. I've watched the fearmonger preps since the mid 90's. I've watched families destroyed because of this mentality. The same mentality that Kirtland promotes. The LDS church does not promote a fear based approach to preparedness. First because fear is from Satan, not God. Second, because of the type of behaviors that fear induces into people.

Lastly, my dreams/visions/revelations are just as valid as anyone else's. However, I hold mine sacred, some people just think they do.

First of all, I am not a fear monger. No fear based approach, as you say. Go read the G.A.'s saying the same things as I say, and they said it first, in my boatloat of prophesy about the second coming civil war in U.S.. They must be fear mongers under your definition, mirk.
Two, we are told to keep journals. Any input on that mirk? It is so we can write down faith promoting thoughts and events including revelation, for family members and others who will read, soon or years from now, and be blessed, as well as a reminder to ourselves of past experiences. Third, much of the early history of the restoration is known to us because these events where written in journals, and elsewhere. Where those not sacred events? You really think those should never have been written down or passed on? As the scriptures point out, without revelation, a nation will dwindle and perish in unbelief 1 Nephi 4:13.
And by the way mirkwood, what is scripture? Whatever is spoken under the influence of the Holy Ghost is scripture:D&C 68:4. Don't give me that jive that unless it has been said by a G.A. it is worthless or invalid. That is not what the scripture I just quoted said. Also you say your "dreams/visions/revelations are just as valid as anyone else's. However, I hold mine sacred, some people just think they do" What does this have to do with anyone else? If you want to share anything go ahead, if not go ahead. That is your choice. Why are you picking apart others who
desire to warn their neighbors. Is it your right to cast stones? You don't see me criticizing you for your personal choice on this matter. The answer is no.
And lastly, just because you have heard about these things "since the mid to late 80's" don't get complacency bias. You say I put dates on things. I have said two things about timing. One I believe the world economy will tank within about the next five months. Also, that we will, I believe, see big changes by January, including big problems surrounding the coming election. Hardly two weeks go by without you and desertwonderer criticizing me for that. You may want to lay off the criticizing untill then, if you can.

[brianj]

Now, once again, I'm not speculating about any reasoning for why its changed to 3 months or what amount is correct. I am simply stating that the news article said people "misconstrued" food storage by emphasizing that its for disasters.

I felt the need to point out that the year's food storage counsel has not changed. If anything, it has been expanded from one year to 15 months. And if you look at the issue from my point of view, you will see that both views - disaster preparedness and self sufficiency - are correct reasons for the current counsel.

Looking at the church website I see multiple pages counseling us to have a three month supply of foods we normally eat and a long-term food storage. On one page I found the counsel to start with a three month supply of foods we eat regularly then add long-term food storage to that supply.

We aren't storing wheat, oats, rice, and powdered milk for a short-term financial emergency or a winter storm where trucks can't deliver food to local stores for a few days - that long-term food storage is, to me, clearly for a situation such as a disaster or surviving the coming storm.

I don't try to have 24 pounds of beef, another 24 pounds of chicken, and more cereal juice than I care to inventory for disaster survival. If the power is out for more than a few hours I am going to have to have a big cookout and share with my neighbors! This food is clearly for short-term financial emergencies.

Just as we were leaving for a prepaid vacation at the end of April, my family was informed that the owners of the house we were renting had decided to sell. The owners suddenly treated us very poorly because we didn't agree to move out immediately when they said an offer was accepted, and we were forced out when the rental contract expired, at the end of July. Because of some very unpleasant trials we did not have the money to move. But since we had a lot of food toward that three month counsel, we were able to save a lot of money on groceries to help pay for that move. Inspired counsel to have both short and long term food storage will lead to blessings for everybody who follows that counsel.

[mirkwood]

One I believe the world economy will tank within about the next five months. Also, that we will, I believe, see big changes by January, including big problems surrounding the coming election. Hardly two weeks go by without you and desertwonderer criticizing me for that. You may want to lay off the criticizing untill then, if you can.

The bolded are two dates you are giving. Or if you prefer, timelines. Same thing. I guess we will see come January won't we?

I'm about as far from complacent as you can get.

Oh...and comparing yourself to GA's? Just wow.

Funny how anyone who challenges the dreamer/NDE/tent etc. crowd is complacent, or ___________, whatever aspersion they feel like throwing out.

[GrandMasterB]

One I believe the world economy will tank within about the next five months. Also, that we will, I believe, see big changes by January, including big problems surrounding the coming election. Hardly two weeks go by without you and desertwonderer criticizing me for that. You may want to lay off the criticizing untill then, if you can.

The bolded are two dates you are giving. Or if you prefer, timelines. Same thing. I guess we will see come January won't we?

I'm about as far from complacent as you can get.

Oh...and comparing yourself to GA's? Just wow.

Funny how anyone who challenges the dreamer/NDE/tent etc. crowd is complacent, or ___________, whatever aspersion they feel like throwing out.

I think the dreamer crowd means well and are sincerely praying for our Lord's return but I also think some of them have gone on the fringes. It is like every single dream they have is about end times. I have had some crazy dreams about end times but I feel they are more messages or warnings than actual future events. For example what troubles me is that you will have posters sharing dreams about Obama not leaving office, being killed, leaving office, Trump being killed before taking office. And they believe all the versions and try to fit them together like it is some puzzle to solve. I had a dream that Hillary became the president. So is my dream to come true too. Maybe it works like this, Obama leaves office and then is killed in Israel like Natan says. Trump wins the presidency but, is killed right after taking office so Hillary just declares herself the winner by forfeit. Yeah that must be how all these dreams can be true at the same time. Seriously it is getting ridiculous.

[shadow]

I'll be headed to the USU vs Weber game soon. I predict the Aggies will win.