The Enemy From Within

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Lizzy60
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Lizzy60 »

My son was in a Single's ward for several years, and it turned him completely off the church. He was ignored by the Bishopric, and shunned when he attended events. He had a minor case of anxiety, that he was attempting to treat through therapy, and the ward was very detrimental for him. We tried to talk to the Bushopric, and they were not willing to even discuss our son's needs.
His anxiety has not stopped him from being very successful in his career, and he has several close friends, not members of the church. Because he doesn't fit the cookie-cutter LDS mold, he has found love and acceptance elsewhere. He also loves visiting his parents and siblings, because we know and appreciate his goodness.

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Jim Kelley
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Jim Kelley »

Marktheshark replied:

"The link works fine. I'm not going to put forth the effort to read 17 pages.

"How about some cliff notes?

"From a super quick skim, here's what I got:

"You had programs shut down and didn't like your leaders in your ward and stake? So you complained, they did nothing of the magnitude you were hoping.


"So you started calling the leaders corrupt. Then you get called on for bad mouthing general authorities and you refuse to just forgive and move forward, so you got ex'd for insisting on the corruption of leadership?

"Sound about right?"


I think you hit the nail on the head when you said your not going to put forth the efforts to read 17 pages.

As for your cliff notes attempt; keep your day job, you got it pretty wrong as anyone who is willing to read the 17 page Title Of Liberty report to President Monson can see for themselves

By the way the 17 page document was written in 2007 and the Church Court was 2012 so that 17 page letter was way before.

Brother Jim

marktheshark
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by marktheshark »

Jim, you never answered my earlier question:

What were you doing that led to you being put on trial?

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Jim Kelley
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Jim Kelley »

Jim Kelley wrote:Marktheshark asked:

"What were you doing that led to you being put on trial?"

Writing letters to The Church, about the official interpretation for "the holy church of God" and getting the runaround so I kept asking.

The website mormon8-38.com came a year later after the Church Court.

I think you are asking the wrong questions:

Perhaps you should ask why does The Church keep the interpretation for "the holy church of God" so veiled?

Perhaps you should ask what is so offensive about Mormon 8:33-41 that it was disallowed to be read in a Church Court?

Perhaps you should ask why didn't The First Presidency insist on another Church Court (as required by scripture) when evidence of errors and unfairness were presented according to Church Policy in the appeals documents?

This is what an honest person should ask instead of using Satan's tactics of attacking the messenger of the truth.

Brother Jim
I will repost this for marktheshark's statement that I did not answer his question why I was put on trial in the first place.

Here you go marktheshark.

I respectfully point out this is not 17 pages long and not a hard read.

Brother Jim

samizdat
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by samizdat »

Lizzy60 wrote:My son was in a Single's ward for several years, and it turned him completely off the church. He was ignored by the Bishopric, and shunned when he attended events. He had a minor case of anxiety, that he was attempting to treat through therapy, and the ward was very detrimental for him. We tried to talk to the Bushopric, and they were not willing to even discuss our son's needs.
His anxiety has not stopped him from being very successful in his career, and he has several close friends, not members of the church. Because he doesn't fit the cookie-cutter LDS mold, he has found love and acceptance elsewhere. He also loves visiting his parents and siblings, because we know and appreciate his goodness.
Sorry to hear of that experience.

My experience with singles wards have been varied. My favorite one was by far in San Diego where there was a LOT of diversity. Marines, Asians, Hispanics, Blacks, as well as Whites. The BYU wards weren't too shabby either as I lived in a complex that had their own activities together. Some SA wards though especially in the Intermountain West and in Utah outside of the BYU wards were wanting for love however. My wife hated her BYU singles ward as she saw many hypocrites so she attended the Spanish language family ward. We always went there since we became BF/GF and then got married.

In Mexico and in most other countries, there are no singles wards. The people still manage to find each other at Institute however. One thing that is needed is more dynamism and acceptance on the part of those called to guide the singles. That was something my San Diego bishop had. NOT something a couple of Utah bishops had. There was a BIG difference in the two.

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Sirocco
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Sirocco »

samizdat wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:My son was in a Single's ward for several years, and it turned him completely off the church. He was ignored by the Bishopric, and shunned when he attended events. He had a minor case of anxiety, that he was attempting to treat through therapy, and the ward was very detrimental for him. We tried to talk to the Bushopric, and they were not willing to even discuss our son's needs.
His anxiety has not stopped him from being very successful in his career, and he has several close friends, not members of the church. Because he doesn't fit the cookie-cutter LDS mold, he has found love and acceptance elsewhere. He also loves visiting his parents and siblings, because we know and appreciate his goodness.
Sorry to hear of that experience.

My experience with singles wards have been varied. My favorite one was by far in San Diego where there was a LOT of diversity. Marines, Asians, Hispanics, Blacks, as well as Whites. The BYU wards weren't too shabby either as I lived in a complex that had their own activities together. Some SA wards though especially in the Intermountain West and in Utah outside of the BYU wards were wanting for love however. My wife hated her BYU singles ward as she saw many hypocrites so she attended the Spanish language family ward. We always went there since we became BF/GF and then got married.

In Mexico and in most other countries, there are no singles wards. The people still manage to find each other at Institute however. One thing that is needed is more dynamism and acceptance on the part of those called to guide the singles. That was something my San Diego bishop had. NOT something a couple of Utah bishops had. There was a BIG difference in the two.
guide how?

samizdat
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by samizdat »

Sirocco wrote:
samizdat wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:My son was in a Single's ward for several years, and it turned him completely off the church. He was ignored by the Bishopric, and shunned when he attended events. He had a minor case of anxiety, that he was attempting to treat through therapy, and the ward was very detrimental for him. We tried to talk to the Bushopric, and they were not willing to even discuss our son's needs.
His anxiety has not stopped him from being very successful in his career, and he has several close friends, not members of the church. Because he doesn't fit the cookie-cutter LDS mold, he has found love and acceptance elsewhere. He also loves visiting his parents and siblings, because we know and appreciate his goodness.
Sorry to hear of that experience.

My experience with singles wards have been varied. My favorite one was by far in San Diego where there was a LOT of diversity. Marines, Asians, Hispanics, Blacks, as well as Whites. The BYU wards weren't too shabby either as I lived in a complex that had their own activities together. Some SA wards though especially in the Intermountain West and in Utah outside of the BYU wards were wanting for love however. My wife hated her BYU singles ward as she saw many hypocrites so she attended the Spanish language family ward. We always went there since we became BF/GF and then got married.

In Mexico and in most other countries, there are no singles wards. The people still manage to find each other at Institute however. One thing that is needed is more dynamism and acceptance on the part of those called to guide the singles. That was something my San Diego bishop had. NOT something a couple of Utah bishops had. There was a BIG difference in the two.
guide how?
Guide them in the gospel. And when the singles are looking for someone to marry, guide them into the marriage process.

Note I said guide and neither force nor pressure. In the end the decision to marry will be taken by the two parties involved in the marriage. The leaders can only play a support role.

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Sirocco
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Sirocco »

How do you guide someone into the marriage process?

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Jim Kelley
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Jim Kelley »

About any accusations if a member is wrongfully excommunicated that that is still binding for all eternity let me quote The Lord who spoke through The Prophet Joseph Smith on this subject.

“When we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambitions, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man” (D&C 121:37).

Judging from the denial crowd that anything bad about The Lord’s anointed could ever come from The Lord Himself about The Church Priesthood leadership it is a good thing the priesthood is specifically mentioned in this verse or no doubt the doubting ones would claim this is against the government authorities who put the brethren in the Liberty Jail.

I hope this is plain enough that if Church leaders who hold mock trial Church courts to punish members for telling the truth and then excommunicate them they really didn’t have the Priesthood Authority to do anything and were probably acting in a stupor of thoughts pertaining to The Gospel Principles since the heavens withdraw and the Spirit is grieved during these actions.

So if the excommunication actions are null and void then The Lord will make that known at a future date and obviously all those priesthood brethren who had a hand or voice in these mock trials will be present when The Lord announces this if for no other reason than to be a learning experience to the “yes men” brethren and that would include The First Presidency.

Can there be anything more clearer than this?

In my particular case the first Church Court letter dated January 19, 2012, specifically outlined “the counsel and conditions imposed…Cease to teach that Mormon 8:38 specifically means The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its leaders.”

This is real interesting language for the first Church Court because mormon8-38.com was more than a year in coming and the only ones I was repeating Mormon 8:38 to were The Church leadership while asking for the official Church interpretation for “the holy church of God” so that was a lie right on Church stationary and signed by the Stake President and “affirmed” by The First Presidency.

More than a year later mormon8-38.com was launched and I did start teaching the truth that “the holy church of God” is a direct reference to The Church but that was more than a year later.

So as anyone can see one condition for my return and rebaptism is to deny Jesus Christ and the BofM. Is there anyone with an ounce of brains and any kind of testimony at all that would really do that just to be able to bow down to the arm of flesh and kiss Satan’s ring?

Put yourself in my place and what would you do? Yes, take your 10% raise, don’t have to do anything else the brethren would require and be free to tell the truth without further abuse, official anyway, from The Church.

Brother Jim

marktheshark
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by marktheshark »

""Cease to teach that Mormon 8:38 specifically means The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its leaders.”"

Jim, you don't have the right or the authority to declare doctrine or interpret scripture for the whole Church. Even if you're right, it's beyond the scope of your authority. You have done exactly what this claim says you have done on this forum over and over again. You are undeniably guilty of it and your excommunication is continually proven to be just. Your pride in your feeling and need to "be right" is not doing you any favors my friend.

You outright accuse the leadership of the Church of being guilty of being "Pollutions, hypocrites, teachers who sell themselves for that which will canker, and ashamed to take upon themselves the name of Christ". That is extremely harsh. You yourself said you have directly sent such accusatory questioning straight to the First Presidency. That's a blinding admission of guilt and you refuse to stop.



""So as anyone can see one condition for my return and rebaptism is to deny Jesus Christ and the BofM. Is there anyone with an ounce of brains and any kind of testimony at all that would really do that just to be able to bow down to the arm of flesh and kiss Satan’s ring?""

This is completely untrue. It does not mean you would deny Christ or the scriptures and bow to the arm of flesh and kiss Satan's ring. That's ridiculous and narrow sighted based upon false assumptions, inappropriate actions on your part and your own bias. The Lord has called these men to preside over His Church. Have faith that He knows what he's doing. And when you accuse them of such things, you are undermining not only those who are called to preside over you but to undermine and demonstrate a lack of faith that the Lord knows exactly what he's doing with whom he allows to sit in the seat. So what if you're right, it's not within the scope of your authority ti publicly teach that. It's taking upon the mantle unto yourself. What's worse is I think your opinion on the matter is completely wrong on the part that the GA's are polluters, hypocrites and false teachers that you so openly accuse them of being. Not only are you teaching beyond your bounds, you are wrong in doing so and the reasons for which you have rationalized it. You are preaching false doctrine, and it's pretty malicious teachings at that.



Plain and simple, you are in the wrong and until you can bring yourself to accept that, you are left to kick against the pricks my brother.

You would be wise to take the steps necessary to regain membership in Christ's Church where the ordinances of salvation are administered by proper authority.


Jim, "the enemy within" you is yourself.

Lizzy60
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Lizzy60 »

marktheshark wrote:""Cease to teach that Mormon 8:38 specifically means The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its leaders.”"

Jim, you don't have the right or the authority to declare doctrine or interpret scripture for the whole Church. Even if you're right, it's beyond the scope of your authority. You have done exactly what this claim says you have done on this forum over and over again. You are undeniably guilty of it and your excommunication is continually proven to be just. Your pride in your feeling and need to "be right" is not doing you any favors my friend.

You outright accuse the leadership of the Church of being guilty of being "Pollutions, hypocrites, teachers who sell themselves for that which will canker, and ashamed to take upon themselves the name of Christ". That is extremely harsh. You yourself said you have directly sent such accusatory questioning straight to the First Presidency. That's a blinding admission of guilt and you refuse to stop.



""So as anyone can see one condition for my return and rebaptism is to deny Jesus Christ and the BofM. Is there anyone with an ounce of brains and any kind of testimony at all that would really do that just to be able to bow down to the arm of flesh and kiss Satan’s ring?""

This is completely untrue. It does not mean you would deny Christ or the scriptures and bow to the arm of flesh and kiss Satan's ring. That's ridiculous and narrow sighted based upon false assumptions, inappropriate actions on your part and your own bias. The Lord has called these men to preside over His Church. Have faith that He knows what he's doing. And when you accuse them of such things, you are undermining not only those who are called to preside over you but to undermine and demonstrate a lack of faith that the Lord knows exactly what he's doing with whom he allows to sit in the seat. So what if you're right, it's not within the scope of your authority ti publicly teach that. It's taking upon the mantle unto yourself. What's worse is I think your opinion on the matter is completely wrong on the part that the GA's are polluters, hypocrites and false teachers that you so openly accuse them of being. Not only are you teaching beyond your bounds, you are wrong in doing so and the reasons for which you have rationalized it. You are preaching false doctrine, and it's pretty malicious teachings at that.



Plain and simple, you are in the wrong and until you can bring yourself to accept that, you are left to kick against the pricks my brother.

You would be wise to take the steps necessary to regain membership in Christ's Church where the ordinances of salvation are administered by proper authority.


Jim, "the enemy within" you is yourself.


It is possible that God Himself asked Jim to write those letters. Perhaps God has told Jim that he has not forfeited his baptism and temple blessings, regardless of what the institutional church says. You are judging him, and that judgment belongs ONLY to God.

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shadow
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by shadow »

A wrongful excommunication does not mean an "amen to the priesthood". People can and do make honest mistakes. If wrongfully excommed, the victim should show charity and love and forgive the offender.
Joseph Smith said "An attempt was made in the foregoing council to criminate the Twelve before the high council for cutting off Gladden Bishop at their Bradford Conference, but their attempt totally failed. I decided that the high council had nothing to do with the Twelve, or the decisions of the Twelve. But if the Twelve erred they were accountable only to the general council of the authorities of the whole Church, according to the revelations."
He didn't say if they erred then "amen to the priesthood". To error does not mean they were hiding their own sins or showing unrighteous dominion.

Joseph also said “I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives.”
According to Joseph, your (Jim Kelley) excommunication was warranted and predicted. It's fairly easy to see who is on the path to be excommunicated or leave the church on their own volition. Many on this site could foresee the impending excommunication of some of the recent self publicized people like Dehlin and Snuffer and a few others. The path has been pointed out by Joseph Smith, so when we see someone on that path, we can know where it will lead them unless they repent.

Lizzy60
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Lizzy60 »

Shadow, marktheshark, and others ---

Is it righteous for you to pass judgment on people like Jim, Dehlin, or others on this site, when you do not know their hearts, you do not know the motives or the hearts of the people who excommunicated them, and you do not know the mind and will of God in these proceedings?

You are quick to condemn them, and to pass judgment on them, when you have no stewardship or revelation concerning their lives and their relationship with God.

marktheshark
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by marktheshark »

Lizzy60 wrote:
marktheshark wrote:""Cease to teach that Mormon 8:38 specifically means The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its leaders.”"

Jim, you don't have the right or the authority to declare doctrine or interpret scripture for the whole Church. Even if you're right, it's beyond the scope of your authority. You have done exactly what this claim says you have done on this forum over and over again. You are undeniably guilty of it and your excommunication is continually proven to be just. Your pride in your feeling and need to "be right" is not doing you any favors my friend.

You outright accuse the leadership of the Church of being guilty of being "Pollutions, hypocrites, teachers who sell themselves for that which will canker, and ashamed to take upon themselves the name of Christ". That is extremely harsh. You yourself said you have directly sent such accusatory questioning straight to the First Presidency. That's a blinding admission of guilt and you refuse to stop.



""So as anyone can see one condition for my return and rebaptism is to deny Jesus Christ and the BofM. Is there anyone with an ounce of brains and any kind of testimony at all that would really do that just to be able to bow down to the arm of flesh and kiss Satan’s ring?""

This is completely untrue. It does not mean you would deny Christ or the scriptures and bow to the arm of flesh and kiss Satan's ring. That's ridiculous and narrow sighted based upon false assumptions, inappropriate actions on your part and your own bias. The Lord has called these men to preside over His Church. Have faith that He knows what he's doing. And when you accuse them of such things, you are undermining not only those who are called to preside over you but to undermine and demonstrate a lack of faith that the Lord knows exactly what he's doing with whom he allows to sit in the seat. So what if you're right, it's not within the scope of your authority ti publicly teach that. It's taking upon the mantle unto yourself. What's worse is I think your opinion on the matter is completely wrong on the part that the GA's are polluters, hypocrites and false teachers that you so openly accuse them of being. Not only are you teaching beyond your bounds, you are wrong in doing so and the reasons for which you have rationalized it. You are preaching false doctrine, and it's pretty malicious teachings at that.



Plain and simple, you are in the wrong and until you can bring yourself to accept that, you are left to kick against the pricks my brother.

You would be wise to take the steps necessary to regain membership in Christ's Church where the ordinances of salvation are administered by proper authority.


Jim, "the enemy within" you is yourself.


It is possible that God Himself asked Jim to write those letters. Perhaps God has told Jim that he has not forfeited his baptism and temple blessings, regardless of what the institutional church says. You are judging him, and that judgment belongs ONLY to God.
No, it isn't possible. (The single ward issues, perhaps so. I'm not taking about that.)

"Hey Jim, this is God. You know those Prophets and Apostles that I have appointed? Ya, you should send them a letter telling them that they are polluters, hypocrites, false teachers and shamed to take upon them the name of my only begotten Son."


Does this sound at all right to you?


I'm not judging the intent of his heart, I'm making it clear that his actions were way out of line, and it went so far that they had to excommunicate him because he was too blindly stubborn to see his own error.

Lizzy60
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Lizzy60 »

Wow. You are saying that you know what God will do, and what He won't do.

Just amazing. I am sure God is okay with that.

marktheshark
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by marktheshark »

Lizzy60 wrote:Shadow, marktheshark, and others ---

Is it righteous for you to pass judgment on people like Jim, Dehlin, or others on this site, when you do not know their hearts, you do not know the motives or the hearts of the people who excommunicated them, and you do not know the mind and will of God in these proceedings?

You are quick to condemn them, and to pass judgment on them, when you have no stewardship or revelation concerning their lives and their relationship with God.

I'm not condemning him in the least. I want him (and everyone) to be in Christ's Church and be faithful to the principles of the gospel and receive the ordinances of salvation.

marktheshark
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by marktheshark »

Lizzy60 wrote:Wow. You are saying that you know what God will do, and what He won't do.

Just amazing. I am sure God is okay with that.
In this particular case, I'm 100% confident saying that God didn't ask Jim to accuse the brethren of being hypocrites, liars, false teachers, and ashamed to take upon them the name of Christ (among several other malicious things) and subsequently, with the intent of, having Jim excommunicated from His church and having his ordinances and covenants invalidated on the records of His Church.

This is the opposite of the work and the glory of God.


It's ridiculous to imply that he might possibly have done so. Honestly...

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shadow
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by shadow »

Lizzy60 wrote:Wow. You are saying that you know what God will do, and what He won't do.

Just amazing. I am sure God is okay with that.
Maybe God told his stake to excommunicate him, and others like Dehlin and Snuffer.
You probably never considered that, Lizzy.

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shadow
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by shadow »

Lizzy60 wrote:Wow. You are saying that you know what God will do, and what He won't do.
God, through his prophets, has said quite a bit about a lot of things.

“I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives.” -Joseph Smith

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Jim Kelley
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Jim Kelley »

marktheshark wrote:""Cease to teach that Mormon 8:38 specifically means The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its leaders.”"

Jim, you don't have the right or the authority to declare doctrine or interpret scripture for the whole Church. Even if you're right, it's beyond the scope of your authority. You have done exactly what this claim says you have done on this forum over and over again. You are undeniably guilty of it and your excommunication is continually proven to be just. Your pride in your feeling and need to "be right" is not doing you any favors my friend.

You outright accuse the leadership of the Church of being guilty of being "Pollutions, hypocrites, teachers who sell themselves for that which will canker, and ashamed to take upon themselves the name of Christ". That is extremely harsh. You yourself said you have directly sent such accusatory questioning straight to the First Presidency. That's a blinding admission of guilt and you refuse to stop.



""So as anyone can see one condition for my return and rebaptism is to deny Jesus Christ and the BofM. Is there anyone with an ounce of brains and any kind of testimony at all that would really do that just to be able to bow down to the arm of flesh and kiss Satan’s ring?""

This is completely untrue. It does not mean you would deny Christ or the scriptures and bow to the arm of flesh and kiss Satan's ring. That's ridiculous and narrow sighted based upon false assumptions, inappropriate actions on your part and your own bias. The Lord has called these men to preside over His Church. Have faith that He knows what he's doing. And when you accuse them of such things, you are undermining not only those who are called to preside over you but to undermine and demonstrate a lack of faith that the Lord knows exactly what he's doing with whom he allows to sit in the seat. So what if you're right, it's not within the scope of your authority ti publicly teach that. It's taking upon the mantle unto yourself. What's worse is I think your opinion on the matter is completely wrong on the part that the GA's are polluters, hypocrites and false teachers that you so openly accuse them of being. Not only are you teaching beyond your bounds, you are wrong in doing so and the reasons for which you have rationalized it. You are preaching false doctrine, and it's pretty malicious teachings at that.



Plain and simple, you are in the wrong and until you can bring yourself to accept that, you are left to kick against the pricks my brother.

You would be wise to take the steps necessary to regain membership in Christ's Church where the ordinances of salvation are administered by proper authority.


Jim, "the enemy within" you is yourself.
May I present marctheshark's post as a textbook example of what it must have been like for Martin Luther and John Wesley dealing with the stanch supporters of The Pope in that day.

May I also present marctheshark's post as a textbook example of what it must have been like for the boy Joseph when the church leadership of his youth wanted him to deny The First Vision.

May I direct those interested in reading an account (by marktheshark's own admission he will not be interested in reading very much) The Prophet Joseph gave as his own statement of his experiences in his own words. Go to The Pearl Of Great Price; Joseph Smith-History 1:21-26.

In the same way The Holy Ghost talked to me and He revealed to me Jesus Christ's Warning centering around Mormon 8:38 and specifically "the holy church of God" is The Church.

Just like the boy Joseph I have enough intestinal fortitude to stand up for truth and right.

The Church used to teach all absolute truths are in harmony with each other and there is no contradictions among the absolute truths.

Somewhere in The Church there must be some official untruths because The Church is resisting Jesus Christ's Warning like Dracula cowers at the sign of the cross.

Actually if I were to "repent" and do as The Church leaders have specifically outlined for me in denying "the holy church of God" is The Church wouldn't I be guilty of denying The Holy Ghost and then where would my exaltation be forever?

My Patriarchal Blessing specifically councils me to follow The Spirit and not the arm of flesh and if I do I will not ever be disappointed and I will receive exaltation.

My dealing with The Church leaders about Jesus Christ's Warning has always left me disappointed so, according to marktheshark, I am to completely forget what The Holy Ghost has taught me and jump in the water with both feet only to satisfy The High Priests Of False Security.

True The Prophet and President of the Corporate Church has the authority, and I have added the obligation in my writings, to interpret "the holy church of God" but he has chosen to remain silent even though I have specifically asked him a dozen times over the past six years.

So because The Prophet has chosen to ignore his fiduciary responsibility on this subject it is then left to the Saints of God to "awake" (Ether 8:24) and do as The Holy Ghost directs them because this is a commandment from The Lord Himself.

I choose to follow The Lord.

Brother Jim

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Jim Kelley
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Jim Kelley »

Marktheshark stated this and even put it in quotation marks,

"Hey Jim, this is God. You know those Prophets and Apostles that I have appointed? Ya, you should send them a letter telling them that they are polluters, hypocrites, false teachers and shamed to take upon them the name of my only begotten Son."

This is blasphemy to even act like you are talking for God!

Repent ye that do iniquity!

Bro. Jim

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Jim Kelley
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Jim Kelley »

Jim Kelley wrote:Marktheshark stated this and even put it in quotation marks,

"Hey Jim, this is God. You know those Prophets and Apostles that I have appointed? Ya, you should send them a letter telling them that they are polluters, hypocrites, false teachers and shamed to take upon them the name of my only begotten Son."

This is blasphemy to even act like you are talking for God!

Repent ye that do iniquity!

Bro. Jim
Actually I did send all the Apostles several letters discussing this.

And what is wrong with discussing the scriptures with those who have the keys of the priesthood to expound on and interpret scriptures?

Interestingly enough not one reply.

Actually no reply is an answer and what does that answer say?

Marktheshark is just digging himself a deeper pit to fall into himself.

If I didn't know better I would guess marcthechark is an enemy within this Forum sent by The High Priests Of False Security.

But then according to marctheshark I do not know better.

Bro. Jim

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Jim Kelley
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Jim Kelley »

shadow wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:Wow. You are saying that you know what God will do, and what He won't do.

Just amazing. I am sure God is okay with that.
Maybe God told his stake to excommunicate him, and others like Dehlin and Snuffer.
You probably never considered that, Lizzy.
And maybe, just maybe, God did not direct these Church courts and they were convened and run by men?

I don't know specifically about any other Church courts but I do know about the ones I was in and I have published the truths of them on mormon8-38.com.

In my particular Church Court I was denied my reading of nine verses right out of the BofM.

Now if God caused the BofM to be written and it is of God then why would God deny the reading of nine of His verses in His Church Court?

Yea, because that Church Court was a court of and for The High Priests Of False Security and they knew if I were to read Mormon 8:33-41, The Holy Ghost would fall upon the High Councilmen and it would be a lot harder for the vindictive Stake President to convince then to raise their hands against Bro. Jim in that Mock Trial.

Bro. Jim

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Jim Kelley
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by Jim Kelley »

Marctheshark has caused me to ponder and reflect upon those who just can't seem to see The Light of Truth.

As I was pondering this a story was given to me and I think it appropriate to post it here:

There was a blind Mormon man who was blind from birth. He has heard about the sun but wanted proof the sun existed.

This blind Mormon's home teachers took it upon themselves to give this blind member the proof he seemed to want.

Before sunup, according to prearrangement, the home teachers came to the blind mans house and the three sat down in chairs in the lawn facing the East.

When the sun came up all three felt the radiant rays upon their faces and the home teachers said; feel this, is this not proof there is a sun and it rises and gives warmth?

The blind man said this is not proof. You could nave a heat lamp shining on me now.

Then the home teachers took the blind man by the hand and led him to the east outside wall of his house and had him feel the warmth on that wall and then led the blind man to the north wall to feel the coolness of the night still in that wall.

Then the home teachers asked; is this not proof there is a sun and the sun shines and gives it's warmth to the whole earth.

Then the blind man said this is not proof. You had someone use heat lamps to warm the east wall.

The lesson of this story is if a person is blind then he can not see what others can see as proof and may doubt all other evidences no matter how convincing if he is of that mindset.

So it is with Gospel Principles. If a person chooses to be blind there is no amount of evidence that anyone, even Jesus Christ Himself, can present to convince the blind at heart. The full-time missionaries are challenged with this all the time.

So it is with marctheshark, and many others, who choose to remain blind and there is no amount of persuasion and evidence anyone will ever be able to present that will change their minds.

I am sincere about this when I say I am truly sorry for marctheshark and shadow and it will pain me on Judgment Day to have to be a witness against them while I stand next to Moroni as a second witness for Jesus Christ's Warning.

Brother Jim
Last edited by Jim Kelley on April 1st, 2015, 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ajax
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Re: The Enemy From Within

Post by ajax »

shadow wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:Wow. You are saying that you know what God will do, and what He won't do.
God, through his prophets, has said quite a bit about a lot of things.

“I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives.” -Joseph Smith
Who said Joseph said?

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