Does Satan Plan to Destroy the US? How?

[Oldemandalton]

This was a response to Col Flagg on another thread. I thought it would be an interesting topic for it's own thread.

I have always thought that Satan, Master Mahan and the evil spirits which follow them need the destruction of our Country to realize their goals of the enslavement of the world. Why haven’t they been able to do this? The US has placed itself in the role as the World Policeman, for good or bad. We are keeping the despots around the world at bay. If we were gone then these evil men would attack their neighbors then world war and chaos would ensue. Then out of the ashes would come the New World Order.

So how could this country be destroyed? I can only think of three ways;

1.Military Strike/Invasion from an outside enemy.
2.Economic Destruction.
3.Slow Metamorphosis.


Military Strike or Invasion. This could be done by an EMP attack from several nuclear explosions in our atmosphere. This would send our country into chaos, starvation and deaths of millions from disease and lake of food and water. If this was done by land based missiles then our military would respond with a devastating attack on our enemy. If it was done by a non-state organization, terrorists, then to whom would we respond? That is the beauty behind letting terrorist do our enemy’s dirty work. An invasion would only be possible if we were weakened by civil strife or an EMP attack. This would be more likely to occur from the Southern Boarder.

Economic Destruction. This would be accomplished by our enemies within. If you watch the news each day you can see how this is being done. Our dollar and the economy are being trashed before our very eyes. TARP, the Stimulus, higher taxes, Cap and Trade, Universal Health Care, unprecedented printing of our money to pay for it all, will in the end destroy our economy. It will either result in hyper inflation as is occurring in Zimbabwe or as in the Weimer Republic OR they will have to curb this inflation by raising interest rate to 20-30%! Either way we are DONE as a major player in the world. Thus, no more World Policeman and saving the world from the evil despots out there.

If our economy goes, so will the rest of the world economies go. If this happens unrest will spread and so will chaos. There is a book out their written by a group of communists/anarchists in France called “The Coming Insurrection” and is gaining world wide popularity. It is a handbook for anarchists and how to spread chaos. I believe that the LDGs will use the economic collapse to try and foment chaos and anarchy.

Slow Metamorphosis. If you are a student of US history you will realize Satan has been patiently working to destroy/change our Constitution for at least a 150 years or more. It is working. We do not resemble the Republic that was created 230+ years ago. How will the population accept the drastic changes Obama is proposing? Through Fear and Hunger. These will be the tools that will be used to destroy our country IF WE LET THEM.

In the biblical prophecies of the last days America is on the sidelines and is barely mentioned if at all. WHY?

OMD

[sbsion]

YES.........."Obamanation of desolation".......it's a done deal, we are finished, next, the millinium

[Jason]

This was a response to Col Flagg on another thread. I thought it would be an interesting topic for it's own thread.

I have always thought that Satan, Master Mahan and the evil spirits which follow them need the destruction of our Country to realize their goals of the enslavement of the world. Why haven’t they been able to do this? The US has placed itself in the role as the World Policeman, for good or bad. We are keeping the despots around the world at bay. If we were gone then these evil men would attack their neighbors then world war and chaos would ensue. Then out of the ashes would come the New World Order.

So how could this country be destroyed? I can only think of three ways;

1.Military Strike/Invasion from an outside enemy.
2.Economic Destruction.
3.Slow Metamorphosis.


Military Strike or Invasion. This could be done by an EMP attack from several nuclear explosions in our atmosphere. This would send our country into chaos, starvation and deaths of millions from disease and lake of food and water. If this was done by land based missiles then our military would respond with a devastating attack on our enemy. If it was done by a non-state organization, terrorists, then to whom would we respond? That is the beauty behind letting terrorist do our enemy’s dirty work. An invasion would only be possible if we were weakened by civil strife or an EMP attack. This would be more likely to occur from the Southern Boarder.

Economic Destruction. This would be accomplished by our enemies within. If you watch the news each day you can see how this is being done. Our dollar and the economy are being trashed before our very eyes. TARP, the Stimulus, higher taxes, Cap and Trade, Universal Health Care, unprecedented printing of our money to pay for it all, will in the end destroy our economy. It will either result in hyper inflation as is occurring in Zimbabwe or as in the Weimer Republic OR they will have to curb this inflation by raising interest rate to 20-30%! Either way we are DONE as a major player in the world. Thus, no more World Policeman and saving the world from the evil despots out there.

If our economy goes, so will the rest of the world economies go. If this happens unrest will spread and so will chaos. There is a book out their written by a group of communists/anarchists in France called “The Coming Insurrection” and is gaining world wide popularity. It is a handbook for anarchists and how to spread chaos. I believe that the LDGs will use the economic collapse to try and foment chaos and anarchy.

Slow Metamorphosis. If you are a student of US history you will realize Satan has been patiently working to destroy/change our Constitution for at least a 150 years or more. It is working. We do not resemble the Republic that was created 230+ years ago. How will the population accept the drastic changes Obama is proposing? Through Fear and Hunger. These will be the tools that will be used to destroy our country IF WE LET THEM.

In the biblical prophecies of the last days America is on the sidelines and is barely mentioned if at all. WHY?

OMD

Again it is all about perspective in terms of understanding strategy and goals. I've bolded the statement I disagree with that provides the basis of your arguments and I have added justification for my perspective below:

We are keeping the despots around the world at bay.

Actually the US has been a wonderful tool for communism and the Illuminati. Much of the funding for the Bolshevik revolution originated from US business interests. The efforts by the US in the wrap-up of WWII provided the communists with a tremendous foothold on Eastern Europe. The repatriation extermination efforts enhanced the tool of fear and mistrust in Europe further strengthening the communists. The US paved the way for the communists in China, Korea, and Vietnam. The CIA has created much of the terrorism in the world and is responsible for most of the drug trafficking. Starting with Roosevelt, most of the US Presidents have been proponents of communism and NWO by helping create, fund, and support institutions created to usurp national sovereignty and wrap the world in one all powerful government. Through the use of those institutions the US has funded and provided nearly all of the communist military technology improvements over the past several decades.

So why would they destroy the most important and powerful tool that has shaped the world as we know it today?

IMO the only way this country will fall....is from within!

To answer your question:

In the biblical prophecies of the last days America is on the sidelines and is barely mentioned if at all. WHY?

IMO UK and the US are to be on the forefront of the NWO movement as the leading examples. In the process of creating this shining example, which entails economic chaos, I believe the country will fall apart. The sidelining of the US will frustrate the NWO plans and pit the other players against each other. It will also take us (US) out of the fray and put us on the sidelines.

Fundamentally they are trying to destroy the middle class and create a fascist/communist society. The US has had a healthy middle class for several centuries. The middle class isn't used to being on the short end of the stick. In terms of Hon. James David Manning, PhD -

"red blooded God fearing Jesus loving Americans are gonna rise up! you haven't seen anything until you see white people riled up! y'all gonna push these white folk til' they can't take it anymore! white people gonna riot!"

He's talking about the middle class. Rioting from within will destroy the infrastructure, transportation/shipping, and economic survival of the country. I'm far more worried about Joe Bob down the street getting fed up and going urban tactical suicidal than I am about some camel jockey setting off a nuke!

[Col. Flagg]

The only way this nation will be brought to its knees is by treason from within and that has been going on for a while now. The 'Fed' and politicians in DC have assured our destruction as a nation... the only question will be what does us in? A dollar collapse? National bankruptcy and the take-over of our infrastructure by foreigners? Treason that allows for us to be attacked with an EMP weapon or nuke? The evil that has gone on in our nation's capital is beyond comprehension... our so-called 'leaders' have sold this country down the river and for what... their own personal gain and financial security. It's amazing we haven't collapsed yet, although, that is debatable since manipulation, fraud and artificially propping up our economy and markets with phony money out of Washington is the only reason everything hasn't blown up yet financially. How much longer they can keep it up is anyone's guess. It's absolutely amazing to me that we're almost $12 trillion in debt, $14 trillion was doled out to Wall Street and the banks to keep them afloat, we've got a $53 trillion unfunded liability obligation for the next 20 years and the Obama administration is still spending money like drunken sailors! They know what the real situation is financially and so their actions become criminal knowing what they do.

[sbsion]

The only way this nation will be brought to its knees is by treason from within and that has been going on for a while now. The 'Fed' and politicians in DC have assured our destruction as a nation... the only question will be what does us in? A dollar collapse? National bankruptcy and the take-over of our infrastructure by foreigners? Treason that allows for us to be attacked with an EMP weapon or nuke? The evil that has gone on in our nation's capital is beyond comprehension... our so-called 'leaders' have sold this country down the river and for what... their own personal gain and financial security. It's amazing we haven't collapsed yet, although, that is debatable since manipulation, fraud and artificially propping up our economy and markets with phony money out of Washington is the only reason everything hasn't blown up yet financially. How much longer they can keep it up is anyone's guess. It's absolutely amazing to me that we're almost $12 trillion in debt, $14 trillion was doled out to Wall Street and the banks to keep them afloat, we've got a $53 trillion unfunded liability obligation for the next 20 years and the Obama administration is still spending money like drunken sailors! They know what the real situation is financially and so their actions become criminal knowing what they do.

Don't forget, we ARE support by the Bank of England/Scotland/Germany..he he

[skmo]

… IMO the only way this country will fall....is from within!

My Brother, on that we agree 100%. While we may have disagreements about other things, or about how this will come about, I stand firmly with you in believing that we, as a nation, will destroy ourselves without the assistance from The Hand of Almighty. Hopefully, we as Latter Day Saints will be worthy to help Him accomplish this.

… The middle class isn't used to being on the short end of the stick. In terms of Hon. James David Manning, PhD -

"red blooded God fearing Jesus loving Americans are gonna rise up! you haven't seen anything until you see white people riled up! y'all gonna push these white folk til' they can't take it anymore! white people gonna riot!"

In case you’d like ot see what he’s talking about, look here to see a very interesting speech by a Black minister. It's too bad that he's probably going to be called an "Uncle Tom" by many.

[linj2fly]

I agree that Satan uses us as a tool.

We follow the constitution in form only--we really don't FUNCTION according to it anymore. It seems most Americans are either deceived about this or don't care. I would think he would want to keep this up until his work comes full circle.

Sometimes I wonder to myself if the constitution will not be ''voted away'' (I know there are more coercive possibilities) by the people (or rather the politicians) because ''it doesn't work anymore'' much like they say about the free market, even though it's been sabotaged.

In any event, the seeds of our destruction will come from within. This is one of the themes of the BOM, and prophets have repeated this principle many times. President Packer just reiterated this when he accepted the freedom award:

"Now 12 wars later and all that has gone one, that sun us now obscured," President Packer said. "We know that war can't destroy it, but if it is destroyed it will be from within. And now we face a danger greater than any of the wars we have faced. To honor the Constitution and to honor freedom is a sacred duty for all of us."

It is only a matter of how we self-destruct. IMHO, it's not just one thing. It has been and will continue to be a dismantling, until we crumble. Something will spark another civil war. Money/debt? State's rights? conservative vs. liberal issues? Civil unrest in general? What will be the tipping point? Who knows? You could pull many things out of a hat and be right.

It is prophesied that we will have another civil war. Once this happens, it paves the way for other countries to come in and try to finish the destruction or claim the leftovers. The pattern of the UN seems to be to send in 'peacekeepers' to any country that has civil unrest.

I am frequently reminded of this quote from Mosiah Hancock's autobiography who recorded Joseph Smith's prophecy:

There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, "Let's divide up the lands of the United States", then the people of the U. S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U. S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up--when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, 'Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God'. Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when it's liberty hangs by a hair, as it were".

[Oldemandalton]

OMD:
We are keeping the despots around the world at bay.

Whom have we kept at bay and would be unleashed if and when we fall?

1. North Korea will swamp South Korea. Will they stop there or keep on going to Japan who has so little military thanks to us.
2. Israel will be friendless and be attacked by its neighbors and terrorist groups which surround it. Can anyone say Gog and Magog?
3. Russia will retake her former Soviet states in Europe and in the Middle East. Why stop there? The EU has been steadily reducing their military budgets to pay for their socialist programs. Easy picken’s. Russia would also love to back and stoke the fires around the world, with weapons, which will occur when the ‘policeman’ has been taken down. Make some money AND spread chaos in the world. Cool!
4. China will take Taiwan whom they claim is a renegade province. Why stop there since everyone else will be grabbing territory? There’s Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Nepal, Vietnam ripe for the picking. Maybe China will ‘save’ Japan from the Koreans and take the island for them selves.
5. India and Pakistan may even renew their shooting wars and attempt to wipe one another out with conventional weapons or nukes. Why not? Who will notice during the coming storm.
6. Iran still dreams of the glory days of the Persian Empire. Do you believe they will stand by and do nothing as the world catches fire?
7. How about the little dictators just south of us. What will they do with no big brother to stop their petty wars and megalomaniacs? What would a Castro, Chaves or Zelaya do with no constraints?
8. Let’s not forget about the tribal warfare in Africa. Would a disintegrating UN even bother sending pitiful little ‘peace keeping’ troops there as they did last time?

No, Jason, it wasn’t our military that created the monsters around the world. It is the strength of our military that keeps them at bay. Bankers may have financed them and helped them grow but they have become our enemies and what is left of the free world. If they are left to their own evil desires then the world will fall into chaos because there will not be anyone left to stop them if we are gone.

If we do fall as Satan desires then war and anarchy will engulf the world. This is his desire.

What will come out of the ashes?



Old Man Dalton

[Jason]

OMD:
We are keeping the despots around the world at bay.

Whom have we kept at bay and would be unleashed if and when we fall?

1. North Korea will swamp South Korea. Will they stop there or keep on going to Japan who has so little military thanks to us.
2. Israel will be friendless and be attacked by its neighbors and terrorist groups which surround it. Can anyone say Gog and Magog?
3. Russia will retake her former Soviet states in Europe and in the Middle East. Why stop there? The EU has been steadily reducing their military budgets to pay for their socialist programs. Easy picken’s. Russia would also love to back and stoke the fires around the world, with weapons, which will occur when the ‘policeman’ has been taken down. Make some money AND spread chaos in the world. Cool!
4. China will take Taiwan whom they claim is a renegade province. Why stop there since everyone else will be grabbing territory? There’s Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Nepal, Vietnam ripe for the picking. Maybe China will ‘save’ Japan from the Koreans and take the island for them selves.
5. India and Pakistan may even renew their shooting wars and attempt to wipe one another out with conventional weapons or nukes. Why not? Who will notice during the coming storm.
6. Iran still dreams of the glory days of the Persian Empire. Do you believe they will stand by and do nothing as the world catches fire?
7. How about the little dictators just south of us. What will they do with no big brother to stop their petty wars and megalomaniacs? What would a Castro, Chaves or Zelaya do with no constraints?
8. Let’s not forget about the tribal warfare in Africa. Would a disintegrating UN even bother sending pitiful little ‘peace keeping’ troops there as they did last time?

No, Jason, it wasn’t our military that created the monsters around the world. It is the strength of our military that keeps them at bay. Bankers may have financed them and helped them grow but they have become our enemies and what is left of the free world. If they are left to their own evil desires then the world will fall into chaos because there will not be anyone left to stop them if we are gone.

If we do fall as Satan desires then war and anarchy will engulf the world. This is his desire.

What will come out of the ashes?

Old Man Dalton

Read "The Politician" by Robert Welch and see if you hold the same opinion. That covers the 1940s through 1960s. After you have that down I can direct you to a dozen books that will cover the ground work from there forward....and half a dozen books covering the groundwork from there back.

The military is a tool of the government. The upper echelon's of the government have been pro-communist since Truman. Remember it was the US military that forcibly repatriated those millions of soldiers from the eastern block (along with millions of women and children) who fought with us in WWII and shipped them to their deaths. Do your homework - Google Operation Keelhaul...

You are too caught up in the headlines of MSM propaganda....IMO for whatever its worth!

[Oldemandalton]

An Open Letter to the Obama Administration from Central and Eastern Europe

GW
2009-07-15, ostatnia aktualizacja

by Valdas Adamkus, Martin Butora, Emil Constantinescu, Pavol Demes, Lubos Dobrovsky, Matyas Eorsi, Istvan Gyarmati, Vaclav Havel, Rastislav Kacer, Sandra Kalniete, Karel Schwarzenberg, Michal Kovac, Ivan Krastev, Alexander Kwasniewski, Mart Laar, Kadri Liik, Janos Martonyi. Janusz Onyszkiewicz, Adam Rotfeld, Vaira Vike-Freiberga, Alexandr Vondra, Lech Walesa.

We have written this letter because, as Central and Eastern European (CEE) intellectuals and former policymakers, we care deeply about the future of the transatlantic relationship as well as the future quality of relations between the United States and the countries of our region. We write in our personal capacity as individuals who are friends and allies of the United States as well as committed Europeans.

Our nations are deeply indebted to the United States. Many of us know firsthand how important your support for our freedom and independence was during the dark Cold War years. U.S. engagement and support was essential for the success of our democratic transitions after the Iron Curtain fell twenty years ago. Without Washington's vision and leadership, it is doubtful that we would be in NATO and even the EU today.

We have worked to reciprocate and make this relationship a two-way street. We are Atlanticist voices within NATO and the EU. Our nations have been engaged alongside the United States in the Balkans, Iraq, and today in Afghanistan. While our contribution may at times seem modest compared to your own, it is significant when measured as a percentage of our population and GDP. Having benefited from your support for liberal democracy and liberal values in the past, we have been among your strongest supporters when it comes to promoting democracy and human rights around the world.

Twenty years after the end of the Cold War, however, we see that Central and Eastern European countries are no longer at the heart of American foreign policy. As the new Obama Administration sets its foreign-policy priorities, our region is one part of the world that Americans have largely stopped worrying about. Indeed, at times we have the impression that U.S. policy was so successful that many American officials have now concluded that our region is fixed once and for all and that they could "check the box" and move on to other more pressing strategic issues. Relations have been so close that many on both sides assume that the region's transatlantic orientation, as well as its stability and prosperity, would last forever.

That view is premature. All is not well either in our region or in the transatlantic relationship. Central and Eastern Europe is at a political crossroads and today there is a growing sense of nervousness in the region. The global economic crisis is impacting on our region and, as elsewhere, runs the risk that our societies will look inward and be less engaged with the outside world. At the same time, storm clouds are starting to gather on the foreign policy horizon. Like you, we await the results of the EU Commission's investigation on the origins of the Russo-Georgian war. But the political impact of that war on the region has already been felt. Many countries were deeply disturbed to see the Atlantic alliance stand by as Russia violated the core principles of the Helsinki Final Act, the Charter of Paris, and the territorial integrity of a country that was a member of NATO's Partnership for Peace and the Euroatlantic Partnership Council -all in the name of defending a sphere of influence on its borders.

Despite the efforts and significant contribution of the new members, NATO today seems weaker than when we joined. In many of our countries it is perceived as less and less relevant - and we feel it. Although we are full members, people question whether NATO would be willing and able to come to our defense in some future crises. Europe's dependence on Russian energy also creates concern about the cohesion of the Alliance. President Obama's remark at the recent NATO summit on the need to provide credible defense plans for all Alliance members was welcome, but not sufficient to allay fears about the Alliance´s defense readiness. Our ability to continue to sustain public support at home for our contributions to Alliance missions abroad also depends on us being able to show that our own security concerns are being addressed in NATO and close cooperation with the United States

We must also recognize that America's popularity and influence have fallen in many of our countries as well. Public opinions polls, including the German Marshall Fund's own Transatlantic Trends survey, show that our region has not been immune to the wave of criticism and anti-Americanism that has swept Europe in recent years and which led to a collapse in sympathy and support for the United States during the Bush years. Some leaders in the region have paid a political price for their support of the unpopular war in Iraq. In the future they may be more careful in taking political risks to support the United States. We believe that the onset of a new Administration has created a new opening to reverse this trend but it will take time and work on both sides to make up for what we have lost.

In many ways the EU has become the major factor and institution in our lives. To many people it seems more relevant and important today than the link to the United States. To some degree it is a logical outcome of the integration of Central and Eastern Europe into the EU. Our leaders and officials spend much more time in EU meetings than in consultations with Washington, where they often struggle to attract attention or make our voices heard. The region's deeper integration in the EU is of course welcome and should not necessarily lead to a weakening of the transatlantic relationship. The hope was that integration of Central and Eastern Europe into the EU would actually strengthen the strategic cooperation between Europe and America.

However, there is a danger that instead of being a pro-Atlantic voice in the EU, support for a more global partnership with Washington in the region might wane over time. The region does not have the tradition of assuming a more global role. Some items on the transatlantic agenda, such as climate change, do not resonate in the Central and Eastern European publics to the same extent as they do in Western Europe.

Leadership change is also coming in Central and Eastern Europe. Next to those, there are fewer and fewer leaders who emerged from the revolutions of 1989 who experienced Washington's key role in securing our democratic transition and anchoring our countries in NATO and EU. A new generation of leaders is emerging who do not have these memories and follow a more "realistic" policy. At the same time, the former Communist elites, whose insistence on political and economic power significantly contributed to the crises in many CEE countries, gradually disappear from the political scene. The current political and economic turmoil and the fallout from the global economic crisis provide additional opportunities for the forces of nationalism, extremism, populism, and anti-Semitism across the continent but also in some our countries.

This means that the United States is likely to lose many of its traditional interlocutors in the region. The new elites replacing them may not share the idealism - or have the same relationship to the United States - as the generation who led the democratic transition. They may be more calculating in their support of the United States as well as more parochial in their world view. And in Washington a similar transition is taking place as many of the leaders and personalities we have worked with and relied on are also leaving politics.

And then there is the issue of how to deal with Russia. Our hopes that relations with Russia would improve and that Moscow would finally fully accept our complete sovereignty and independence after joining NATO and the EU have not been fulfilled. Instead, Russia is back as a revisionist power pursuing a 19th-century agenda with 21st-century tactics and methods. At a global level, Russia has become, on most issues, a status-quo power. But at a regional level and vis-a-vis our nations, it increasingly acts as a revisionist one. It challenges our claims to our own historical experiences. It asserts a privileged position in determining our security choices. It uses overt and covert means of economic warfare, ranging from energy blockades and politically motivated investments to bribery and media manipulation in order to advance its interests and to challenge the transatlantic orientation of Central and Eastern Europe.

We welcome the "reset" of the American-Russian relations. As the countries living closest to Russia, obviously nobody has a greater interest in the development of the democracy in Russia and better relations between Moscow and the West than we do. But there is also nervousness in our capitals. We want to ensure that too narrow an understanding of Western interests does not lead to the wrong concessions to Russia. Today the concern is, for example, that the United States and the major European powers might embrace the Medvedev plan for a "Concert of Powers" to replace the continent's existing, value-based security structure. The danger is that Russia's creeping intimidation and influence-peddling in the region could over time lead to a de facto neutralization of the region. There are differing views within the region when it comes to Moscow's new policies. But there is a shared view that the full engagement of the United States is needed.

Many in the region are looking with hope to the Obama Administration to restore the Atlantic relationship as a moral compass for their domestic as well as foreign policies. A strong commitment to common liberal democratic values is essential to our countries. We know from our own historical experience the difference between when the United States stood up for its liberal democratic values and when it did not. Our region suffered when the United States succumbed to "realism" at Yalta. And it benefited when the United States used its power to fight for principle. That was critical during the Cold War and in opening the doors of NATO. Had a "realist" view prevailed in the early 1990s, we would not be in NATO today and the idea of a Europe whole, free, and at peace would be a distant dream.

We understand the heavy demands on your Administration and on U.S. foreign policy. It is not our intent to add to the list of problems you face. Rather, we want to help by being strong Atlanticist allies in a U.S.-European partnership that is a powerful force for good around the world. But we are not certain where our region will be in five or ten years time given the domestic and foreign policy uncertainties we face. We need to take the right steps now to ensure the strong relationship between the United States and Central and Eastern Europe over the past twenty years will endure.

We believe this is a time both the United States and Europe need to reinvest in the transatlantic relationship. We also believe this is a time when the United States and Central and Eastern Europe must reconnect around a new and forward-looking agenda. While recognizing what has been achieved in the twenty years since the fall of the Iron Curtain, it is time to set a new agenda for close cooperation for the next twenty years across the Atlantic.

Therefore, we propose the following steps:

First, we are convinced that America needs Europe and that Europe needs the United States as much today as in the past. The United States should reaffirm its vocation as a European power and make clear that it plans to stay fully engaged on the continent even while it faces the pressing challenges in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the wider Middle East, and Asia. For our part we must work at home in our own countries and in Europe more generally to convince our leaders and societies to adopt a more global perspective and be prepared to shoulder more responsibility in partnership with the United States.

Second, we need a renaissance of NATO as the most important security link between the United States and Europe. It is the only credible hard power security guarantee we have. NATO must reconfirm its core function of collective defense even while we adapt to the new threats of the 21st century. A key factor in our ability to participate in NATO's expeditionary missions overseas is the belief that we are secure at home. We must therefore correct some self-inflicted wounds from the past. It was a mistake not to commence with proper Article 5 defense planning for new members after NATO was enlarged. NATO needs to make the Alliance's commitments credible and provide strategic reassurance to all members. This should include contingency planning, prepositioning of forces, equipment, and supplies for reinforcement in our region in case of crisis as originally envisioned in the NATO-Russia Founding Act.

We should also re-think the working of the NATO-Russia Council and return to the practice where NATO member countries enter into dialogue with Moscow with a coordinated position. When it comes to Russia, our experience has been that a more determined and principled policy toward Moscow will not only strengthen the West's security but will ultimately lead Moscow to follow a more cooperative policy as well. Furthermore, the more secure we feel inside NATO, the easier it will also be for our countries to reach out to engage Moscow on issues of common interest. That is the dual track approach we need and which should be reflected in the new NATO strategic concept.

Third, the thorniest issue may well be America's planned missile-defense installations. Here too, there are different views in the region, including among our publics which are divided. Regardless of the military merits of this scheme and what Washington eventually decides to do, the issue has nevertheless also become -- at least in some countries -- a symbol of America's credibility and commitment to the region. How it is handled could have a significant impact on their future transatlantic orientation. The small number of missiles involved cannot be a threat to Russia's strategic capabilities, and the Kremlin knows this. We should decide the future of the program as allies and based on the strategic plusses and minuses of the different technical and political configurations. The Alliance should not allow the issue to be determined by unfounded Russian opposition. Abandoning the program entirely or involving Russia too deeply in it without consulting Poland or the Czech Republic can undermine the credibility of the United States across the whole region.

Fourth, we know that NATO alone is not enough. We also want and need more Europe and a better and more strategic U.S.-EU relationship as well. Increasingly our foreign policies are carried out through the European Union - and we support that. We also want a common European foreign and defense policy that is open to close cooperation with the United States. We are the advocates of such a line in the EU. But we need the United States to rethink its attitude toward the EU and engage it much more seriously as a strategic partner. We need to bring NATO and the EU closer together and make them work in tandem. We need common NATO and EU strategies not only toward Russia but on a range of other new strategic challenges.

Fifth is energy security. The threat to energy supplies can exert an immediate influence on our nations' political sovereignty also as allies contributing to common decisions in NATO. That is why it must also become a transatlantic priority. Although most of the responsibility for energy security lies within the realm of the EU, the United States also has a role to play. Absent American support, the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline would never have been built. Energy security must become an integral part of U.S.-European strategic cooperation. Central and Eastern European countries should lobby harder (and with more unity) inside Europe for diversification of the energy mix, suppliers, and transit routes, as well as for tough legal scrutiny of Russia's abuse of its monopoly and cartel-like power inside the EU. But American political support on this will play a crucial role. Similarly, the United States can play an important role in solidifying further its support for the Nabucco pipeline, particularly in using its security relationship with the main transit country, Turkey, as well as the North-South interconnector of Central Europe and LNG terminals in our region.

Sixth, we must not neglect the human factor. Our next generations need to get to know each other, too. We have to cherish and protect the multitude of educational, professional, and other networks and friendships that underpin our friendship and alliance. The U.S. visa regime remains an obstacle in this regard. It is absurd that Poland and Romania -- arguably the two biggest and most pro-American states in the CEE region, which are making substantial contributions in Iraq and Afghanistan -- have not yet been brought into the visa waiver program. It is incomprehensible that a critic like the French anti-globalization activist Jose Bove does not require a visa for the United States but former Solidarity activist and Nobel Peace prizewinner Lech Walesa does. This issue will be resolved only if it is made a political priority by the President of the United States.

The steps we made together since 1989 are not minor in history. The common successes are the proper foundation for the transatlantic renaissance we need today. This is why we believe that we should also consider the creation of a Legacy Fellowship for young leaders. Twenty years have passed since the revolutions of 1989. That is a whole generation. We need a new generation to renew the transatlantic partnership. A new program should be launched to identify those young leaders on both sides of the Atlantic who can carry forward the transatlantic project we have spent the last two decades building in Central and Eastern Europe.

In conclusion, the onset of a new Administration in the United States has raised great hopes in our countries for a transatlantic renewal. It is an opportunity we dare not miss. We, the authors of this letter, know firsthand how important the relationship with the United States has been. In the 1990s, a large part of getting Europe right was about getting Central and Eastern Europe right. The engagement of the United States was critical to locking in peace and stability from the Baltics to the Black Sea. Today the goal must be to keep Central and Eastern Europe right as a stable, activist, and Atlanticist part of our broader community.

That is the key to our success in bringing about the renaissance in the Alliance the Obama Administration has committed itself to work for and which we support. That will require both sides recommitting to and investing in this relationship. But if we do it right, the pay off down the road can be very real. By taking the right steps now, we can put it on new and solid footing for the future.

[Oldemandalton]

In Solidarity

The Polish people, hungry for justice, preferred "cowboys" over Communists.
by LECH WALESA

Friday, June 11, 2004 12:01 A.M. EDT

GDANSK, Poland--When talking about Ronald Reagan, I have to be personal. We in Poland took him so personally. Why? Because we owe him our liberty. This can't be said often enough by people who lived under oppression for half a century, until communism fell in 1989.

Poles fought for their freedom for so many years that they hold in special esteem those who backed them in their struggle. Support was the test of friendship. President Reagan was such a friend. His policy of aiding democratic movements in Central and Eastern Europe in the dark days of the Cold War meant a lot to us. We knew he believed in a few simple principles such as human rights, democracy and civil society. He was someone who was convinced that the citizen is not for the state, but vice-versa, and that freedom is an innate right.

I often wondered why Ronald Reagan did this, taking the risks he did, in supporting us at Solidarity, as well as dissident movements in other countries behind the Iron Curtain, while pushing a defense buildup that pushed the Soviet economy over the brink. Let's remember that it was a time of recession in the U.S. and a time when the American public was more interested in their own domestic affairs. It took a leader with a vision to convince them that there are greater things worth fighting for. Did he seek any profit in such a policy? Though our freedom movements were in line with the foreign policy of the United States, I doubt it.

I distinguish between two kinds of politicians. There are those who view politics as a tactical game, a game in which they do not reveal any individuality, in which they lose their own face. There are, however, leaders for whom politics is a means of defending and furthering values. For them, it is a moral pursuit. They do so because the values they cherish are endangered. They're convinced that there are values worth living for, and even values worth dying for. Otherwise they would consider their life and work pointless. Only such politicians are great politicians and Ronald Reagan was one of them.

The 1980s were a curious time--a time of realization that a new age was upon us. Communism was coming to an end. It had used up its means and possibilities. The ground was set for change. But this change needed the cooperation, or unspoken understanding, of different political players. Now, from the perspective of our time, it is obvious that like the pieces of a global chain of events, Ronald Reagan, John Paul II, Margaret Thatcher and even Mikhail Gorbachev helped bring about this new age in Europe. We at Solidarity like to claim more than a little credit, too, for bringing about the end of the Cold War.
In the Europe of the 1980s, Ronald Reagan presented a vision. For us in Central and Eastern Europe, that meant freedom from the Soviets. Mr. Reagan was no ostrich who hoped that problems might just go away. He thought that problems are there to be faced. This is exactly what he did.

Every time I met President Reagan, at his private estate in California or at the Lenin shipyard here in Gdansk, I was amazed by his modesty and even temper. He didn't fit the stereotype of the world leader that he was. Privately, we were like opposite sides of a magnet: He was always composed; I was a raging tower of emotions eager to act. We were so different yet we never had a problem with understanding one another. I respected his honesty and good humor. It gave me confidence in his policies and his resolve. He supported my struggle, but what unified us, unmistakably, were our similar values and shared goals.

I have often been asked in the United States to sign the poster that many Americans consider very significant. Prepared for the first almost-free parliamentary elections in Poland in 1989, the poster shows Gary Cooper as the lonely sheriff in the American Western, "High Noon." Under the headline "At High Noon" runs the red Solidarity banner and the date--June 4, 1989--of the poll. It was a simple but effective gimmick that, at the time, was misunderstood by the Communists. They, in fact, tried to ridicule the freedom movement in Poland as an invention of the "Wild" West, especially the U.S.
But the poster had the opposite impact: Cowboys in Western clothes had become a powerful symbol for Poles. Cowboys fight for justice, fight against evil, and fight for freedom, both physical and spiritual. Solidarity trounced the Communists in that election, paving the way for a democratic government in Poland. It is always so touching when people bring this poster up to me to autograph it. They have cherished it for so many years and it has become the emblem of the battle that we all fought together.

As I say repeatedly, we owe so much to all those who supported us. Perhaps in the early years, we didn't express enough gratitude. We were so busy introducing all the necessary economic and political reforms in our reborn country. Yet President Ronald Reagan must have realized what remarkable changes he brought to Poland, and indeed the rest of the world. And I hope he felt gratified. He should have.

Mr. Walesa, winner of the 1983 Nobel Peace Prize, was president of Poland from 1990 to 1995.

[Jason]

Operation Keelhaul.....

[p51-mustang]

According to Joel Skousen (i think...) he said Lech Welesa was a agent of western banking interests and that the solidarity movement was a sham, part of an effort to convince people that the cold war was waning. Maybe Jason has some additional info.

[Jason]

Lech Walesa was born on September 29, 1943 in Popowo, Poland. After graduating from vocational school, he worked as a car mechanic at a machine center from 1961 to 1965. He served in the army for two years, rose to the rank of corporal, and in 1967 was employed in the Gdansk shipyards as an electrician. In 1969 he married Danuta Golos and they have eight children.

During the clash in December 1970 between the workers and the government, he was one of the leaders of the shipyard workers and was briefly detained. In 1976, however, as a result of his activities as a shop steward, he was fired and had to earn his living by taking temporary jobs.

In 1978 with other activists he began to organise free non-communist trade unions and took part in many actions on the sea coast. He was kept under surveillance by the state security service and frequently detained.

In August 1980 he led the Gdansk shipyard strike which gave rise to a wave of strikes over much of the country with Walesa seen as the leader. The primary demands were for workers' rights. The authorities were forced to capitulate and to negotiate with Walesa the Gdansk Agreement of August 31, 1980, which gave the workers the right to strike and to organise their own independent union.

The Catholic Church supported the movement, and in January 1981 Walesa was cordially received by Pope John Paul II in the Vatican. Walesa himself has always regarded his Catholicism as a source of strength and inspiration. In the years 1980-81 Walesa travelled to Italy, Japan, Sweden, France and Switzerland as guest of the International Labour Organisation. In September 1981 he was elected Solidarity Chairman at the First National Solidarity Congress in Gdansk.

The country's brief enjoyment of relative freedom ended in December 1981, when General Jaruzelski, fearing Soviet armed intervention among other considerations, imposed martial law, "suspended" Solidarity, arrested many of its leaders, and interned Walesa in a country house in a remote spot.

In November 1982 Walesa was released and reinstated at the Gdansk shipyards. Although kept under surveillance, he managed to maintain lively contact with Solidarity leaders in the underground. While martial law was lifted in July 1983, many of the restrictions were continued in civil code. In October 1983 the announcement of Walesa's Nobel prize raised the spirits of the underground movement, but the award was attacked by the government press.

The Jaruzelski regime became even more unpopular as economic conditions worsened, and it was finally forced to negotiate with Walesa and his Solidarity colleagues. The result was the holding of parliamentary elections which, although limited, led to the establishment of a non-communist government. Under Mikhail Gorbachev the Soviet Union was no longer prepared to use military force to keep communist parties in satellite states in power.

Walesa, now head of the revived Solidarity labour union, began a series of meetings with world leaders.

In April 1990 at Solidarity's second national congress, Walesa was elected chairman with 77.5% of the votes. In December 1990 in a general ballot he was elected President of the Republic of Poland. He served until defeated in the election of November 1995.

Walesa has been granted many honorary degrees from universities, including Harvard University and the University of Paris. Other honors include the Medal of Freedom (Philadelphia, U.S.A.); the Award of Free World (Norway); and the European Award of Human Rights.

Selected Bibliography
By Walesa
The Struggle and the Triumph. New York: Arcade, 1992.
A Way of Hope. New York: Henry Holt, 1987.

Other Sources
Craig, Mary. Lech Walesa and His Poland. New York: Continuum, 1987. (By a popular writer who knows Poland well. Based on extensive research and interviews with Walesa and others. Covers the period through 1986. Highly recommended.)
Goodwyn, Lawrence. Breaking the Barrier: The Rise of Solidarity in Poland. New York: Oxford University Press, 1991.
Kurski, Jaroslaw. Lech Walesa: Democrat or Dictator. Boulder, Colorado: Westview Press, 1993. (Translated by Peter Obst. The period July 1989 to March 1992. By Walesa’s press spokesman, whose purpose is “to portray Lech in motion”.)

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peac ... a-bio.html

1993 - When the government is toppled by a parliamentary no-confidence vote in the middle of the year, Walesa dissolves the parliament and calls a new election. The subsequent vote sees the Polish electorate repudiate reformist parties and opt for those linked to the former communist regime, including the Alliance of the Democratic Left (Sojusz Lewicy Demokratycznej - SLD).

Walesa, who had pushed market reform, loses much of his influence following the poor showing of parties born from the Solidarity movement. However, he is still able to pressure the SLD into forming a coalition government with the Polish Peasant Party.

Walesa's reputation is further tarnished by allegations that he collaborated with the secret police during the communist era. Walesa strongly denies the claims and in 2000 a Polish court rules that he had never been an agent for the state security services. However the allegations continue to resurface.

1995 - Walesa seeks reelection as president in November but is narrowly defeated by the former communist Aleksander Kwasniewski, head of the SLD.

"I built democracy and then I handed it all over to democracy," Walesa later says of the defeat. "I had my proposals, but the nation gave six percent to my proposals and chose Kwasniewski."

In December Walesa establishes the Foundation Lech Walesa Institute. The institute seeks to consolidate democracy and the free market economy in Poland and permanently integrate Poland into European structures.

1995 - Walesa creates and leads a new political party, Christian Democracy of the 3rd Polish Republic.

2000 - He again runs for the presidency but, having lost the support of the public, receives less than one per cent of the vote.

2003 - In August the "21 postulates", the handwritten list of demands pasted to wooden boards and hung from the Gdansk shipyard gates during the strike of 1980, are registered as historic documents in the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation's "memory of the world" catalogue. The boards with their list are reported to be still hanging from the gates.

On 18 September Walesa turns to the subject of political repression in Cuba, publishing an open letter with Vaclav Havel, former president of the Czech Republic, and Arpad Goncz, former president of Hungary.

Titled 'Building a Free Cuba', the letter states in part, "It is the responsibility of the democratic world to support representatives of the Cuban opposition, regardless of how long the Cuban Stalinists cling to power. The Cuban opposition must have the same international support as did the representatives of political dissent in Europe when it stood divided. Statements of condemnation for the government's repression, combined with specific diplomatic steps coming from Europe, Latin America and the United States, would be suitable means of exerting pressure on the regime in Cuba."

2004 - On 26 November Walesa travels to Ukraine to help mediate a dispute over the result of the country's presidential election. Addressing a crowd of demonstrators in Kiev, the capital of Ukraine, Walesa says, "The whole of my life I fought for ideals. The situation in Poland was probably more difficult than yours. When I look at your enthusiasm, your engagement, I'm sure it will end in your victory."

Walesa later claims that he helped avert a violent confrontation over the election result by convincing the incumbent president, Viktor Yanukovich, to revoke an order to the armed forces to crack down on the demonstrators.

"I told (Yanukovich): 'You will lose. You have no chance to win. The only choice you have is between defeat with bloodshed and defeat without'," Walesa says.

The dispute is eventually peacefully resolved. Yanukovich agrees to a rerun of the election, which this time is won by opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko.

2005 - During celebrations held at the end of August to mark the 25th anniversary of the founding of Solidarity, Walesa praises the role of Pope John Paul II in inspiring the movement.

"He did not tell us to make a revolution, he did not call for a coup, but he was so suggestive that we all had to define ourselves," Walesa says.

"It was in us, in our hearts and minds that something started that changed the face of this earth. ... Irrespective of today's judgement and the price we had to pay in this generation, we were able to close an epoch of divisions, different blocs and borders, opening the way for an era of globalisation."

Walesa also receives praise, with Poland's current president and former communist, Aleksander Kwasniewski, saying, "We all live in a free Poland, and there would be no free Poland without you. ... Twenty-five years ago, I did not stand on the same side together with you, but today I have no doubts that it was your vision of Poland which led us in the right direction."

German President Horst Koehler says the success of the Solidarity movement "led to the unification of Europe, led to a united Germany. ... Poles freed not just themselves - they launched a process which radiates until today."

The celebrations are marked by Walesa's announcement of his resignation from Solidarity, which now functions mainly as a trade union. "From a logical point of view there is no room for me here," he says.

"I work outside of Poland's borders. ... Solidarity has its new leader and I have not been an electrician for 25 years. ... Today I only try to share my experience, pass it on and do something good for the world."

Also during the celebrations, Walesa and other leaders sign the founding act for the European Solidarity Centre, an institute in Gdansk that will work to promote democracy, monitor human rights in the world and commemorate Solidarity's legacy.

2007 - In November Walesa reveals he is to undergo a heart transplant, saying he could die without the operation. Earlier in the year he had been fitted with a pacemaker.

2008 - Allegations that Walesa collaborated with the secret police during the 1970s are resurrected in June with the publication of a new book.

Titled 'The SB and Lech Walesa' (SB stands for Sluzba Bezpieczenstwa, or secret police), the books claims that Walesa "informed police several dozen times" about activities at the Gdansk shipyards and was paid for his services.

Walesa strongly denies the allegations, saying they were "worthy of the dustbin" and a "fairy tale."

"Nothing like that happened. I had no influence over what the secret police did and wrote. You will not find any signature of mine agreeing to collaborate anywhere. This is all insinuation and part of the communist secret service campaign against me," Walesa tells BBC News.

"They have created this little fairy tale that Lech Walesa was a brave fighter but in his youth he had a moment of weakness and worked for the secret police. They had to turn up something about me, so they went into ancient history, making it difficult to prove one way or the other."

http://www.moreorless.au.com/heroes/walesa.html

On Friday, January 29th, 2010, Lech Walesa, former President of Poland, traveled to Chicago to endorse Illinois Republican gubernatorial candidate, Adam Andrzejewski.

We were fortunate enough to have an opportunity to sit down with the President and Mr. Andrzejewski. Our video from that visit is below.

Items that stand out: 1) Lech Walesa tells his American Audience that the United States no longer leads the world politically or morally 2) At least one of your Founding Bloggers asks President Walesa if he thinks America is slipping toward Socialism. His Answer? Yes! 3) Andrzejewski is running on a platform of forensically auditing Illinois’ books and exposing corruption by making the details of the audit available to the public.

http://biggovernment.com/amarcus/2010/0 ... ism-video/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q19xd0am ... r_embedded

Lech Walesa in Miami: Changes will soon come to Cuba
Solidarity leader and Nobel Peace prize winner Lech Walesa said political change is coming to Cuba and the world must prepare for the `real Cuba.'

Former Polish President and Nobel Peace Laureate Lech Walesa, a key player in helping bringing down communism in Eastern Europe, said Tuesday that there will soon be a political change in Cuba.

``It's going to happen,'' Walesa said, speaking through an interpreter. ``But the world must be ready for the changes that will bring about,'' he cautioned.

Walesa, the guest speaker at a Tuesday $100-a-plate luncheon of the Foundation for Human Rights in Cuba at the Freedom Tower, said the rest of the world needs to see the real Cuba -- and not the island as ``a tourist attraction.''

A union organizer and founder of the Solidarity Movement, Walesa led a nonviolent revolt against Poland's communist system in the 1980s. He has been working with the Cuban American National Foundation on how lessons from his movement can best be applied to support the work of civil society groups in Cuba.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/02/03/1 ... z0klBCklSq

Conspiracy theory

Lech Wałęsa is believed by some people in Poland to have been a paid agent of the SB (Sluzba Bezpieczenstwa - the State Security Service) for more than 10 years during his rise to the top of the Solidarity movement in the Gdansk shipyards. Wałęsa, under the codename "Bolek", is said to have been recruited to pass information to the SB, and was bumped into the top leadership position within Solidarity by other embedded agents of the SB in an attempt to control the movement. His subsequent break from SB control is attributed to a new arrangement Wałęsa made with Reagan/Bush's CIA.

Another, slightly "softer" version of this hypothesis is that Wałęsa was indeed recruited by SB in 1976-1978 when he was jobless and short of money, and he was their secret informer until 1980, but SB lost control over him during the strike in Gdanska Shipyard, so he became the leader of this strike, and later leader of the Solidarity movement simply due to his natural personal leadership skills.

The third "spy" hypothesis claims that he was recruited in 1970 or 1971 when in prison, but he broke off contact with SB in 1976, which was the real reason for losing his job in Gdanska Shipyard.

Finally there are also "combinations" of these hypothesis: one of those suggests that he was first recruited in 1970, then indeed ended his contacts in 1976, but, after losing his job, asked for the reestablishment of these contacts due to lack of money, finally breaking these contacts again in 1980 during the strike.

However, none of these "spy theories" have ever been proven. In fact, his activities during the strike in 1980 and his leadership of Solidarity Trade Union during 1980-1981 suggest strongly against the theory that he was an SB spy, and the theories requires the assumption that the SB would risk destroying their own political system by bumping such a good and effective leader to the top position of a strongly anti-communist social movement. On the other hand, the possibility that he was temporarily an SB informer in 1970 or 1976 is somewhat more plausible.

Wałęsa himself has consistently maintained that the SB attempted to recruit him several times, as was the case of most of the prominent anti-communist leaders, but that he never agreed; and that all the documents with his signature found in SB files were prepared in order to destroy his position within the Solidarity movement.

Prior to the 2000 presidential election, he was cleared to hold political office by a special "vetting court", which held that the photocopies of documents pertaining to agent "Bolek", including signed receipts for payments from the SB, were inadmissible. The original documents, if they in fact existed, were likely pulled from SB files and destroyed together with many other files, which disappeared at the end of the communist regime.

http://www.biographybase.com/biography/Walesa_Lech.html

Lech Walesa, the Polish shipyard worker with the trademark droopy moustache, is regarded as one of the heroes of modern Europe: the leader of the revolution that brought communist rule crashing down.

Now Poland is in uproar over an intriguing riddle: was communism actually destroyed by a communist agent? If so, why?

Two writers claim that Mr Walesa — the founder of the Solidarity movement, Nobel Peace prizewinner, former President of Poland - was a stooge of the communist secret police.

In The State Security Service and Lech Walesa, Slawomir Cenckiewicz and Piotr Gontarczyk make two central claims. The first is that Mr Walesa was an informer for the secret police between 1970 and 1976 under the codename “Bolek”. The second is that as President from 1990 to 1995 he borrowed his police file from the Interior Ministry archives and returned it with key pages missing.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 207797.ece

Newspaper article accusing him of being a Western agent -
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 04,2255800

The Soviet newspaper Izvestia described Lech Walesa today as a money-grubbing, foul-mouthed demagogue, without mentioning his Nobel Peace Prize.

The portrait of Mr. Walesa, the founder of Solidarity, echoed previous Soviet descriptions depicting him as a paid Western agent.

Under the headline ''Dollars That Smell Nasty,'' Izvestia reported on a recent broadcast on Polish television that replayed an tape said to be of a conversation between Mr. Walesa and his brother. The tape showed Mr. Walesa trying to persuade his brother, Stanislaw, to emigrate to the West to manage his finances.

''In front of the viewers, the real Walesa presented himself without mask and without the rhetoric of the demagogue,'' Izvestia said. ''The West paid Walesa generously for sowing hatred and anarchy in Poland. Not just 30 pieces of silver. He has become the owner of more than a million dollars of property.''

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/10/09/world ... alesa.html

[patriotsaint]

Why would Satan want to destroy the US? What country controls more:

Money?
Political Power?
Military Might?

These are the tools the adversary uses and the US has them in abundance. Is there good in the USA? Of course. But there is also plenty of what the adversary needs to advance his efforts.

[lundbaek]

My conviction is that Satan & Co. wants to destroy the economy, the industry, the culture and the military of America. World government can come together only after the United States is out of the way. The rest of the world is being federated now, but a vital, economically strong, United States would have at its disposal the spiritual and material force to resist incorporation into a globalist system.

"....certain shadowy forces contrive to ruthlessly advance their own financial and ideological objectives at your expense. They select, then groom, and ultimately control many of our highest government officials. They plan the wars and through foreign policy arrange to set the stage for incidents to inflate hostilities. They overwork the word peace to misled you and create a plausible smoke screen in order to conceal their real operations. You can recognize who they are." (Curtiss Dall, a former son-in-law of FDR, 1968)

See also :"Tearing Down America to Rebuild it for the New World Order" for further insignts into the plan: http://www.rense.com/general69/two.htm

[Chip45]

Col Flagg (as have others) has made the following observation ... even as our nation is clearly bankrupt with excessive, unpayable debt ... "the Obama administration is still spending money like drunken sailors! "

I think I understand why.

They are spending while the people and business still accept these increasingly worthless FRN's. The whole house of cards is still standing, shaking and frail, but still functioning. It is like the "last splurge" before the ship slips beneath the waves.

It has even partially infected me. While avoiding debt, I (and others I know) are "spending our FRN's", (not like drunken sailors) rather, as quickly as we can on items and projects we think wise in preparing for hard times that surely must come soon. But, how "soon"? Times when such projects cannot be afforded.

Hard times that may unfold in ways that are not necessarily sudden. We may follow a lengthy declining period with periods of sudden jerks but not total collapse. Human beings are very adaptable creatures and can tolerate pretty bad conditions. There are plausible scenarios where the country could experience a decade or more of truly "depression era" type of economic/financial condition, with shortages of all kinds. The nation did not dissolve. The people put up with all sorts of shortages and rationing during WW2, the government could create another crisis demanding such sacrifice - would the people consent? Yes - with some grumbling, but no open rebellion. We, individually, have way too much to lose, (materially) to openly rebel against the PTB. We have come to love our servitude for we still live in the richest plantation on the globe.

So - while the music is still playing ... maybe, it is wise to spend while the toilet paper currency is still accepted as having value?

[freedomforall]

Where is Captain Moroni when we need him?

Let's throw off this government while we have a chance. We have the right. We have the responsibility. The USA cart is being pulled by horses headed the wrong direction. How do we get a change of horses?

It's going to take a lot more than just sitting around talking about it. We can't wish Obama out of office.

What would Moroni do today?

[lundbaek]

A latter-day Capt. Moroni would, I believe, not be recognized as the leader we need. I think the best prospects for US President are still Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, Darrell Castle, perhaps a couple of others I'm not aware of. We need a constitutionalist in the White House, and as many as possible in Congress. But the LDGs are doing all they can to prevent such candidates from getting elected, and they will continue to do so. And unfortunately, they seem to have the support of most American voters behind them.

[shadow]

And unfortunately, they seem to have the support of most American voters behind them.

That's the root of the problem. The reason Ron Paul isn't president right now is people didn't vote for him. Generally speaking, our politicians reflect the citizens that put them there.

[Jason]

Socialism is an absolute dead end road......ending with the complete destruction of society! An effective tool used by the adversary to destroy the creation of a good and wholesome society/people/souls!

Hence the efforts underway to implement socialism!!!

[lundbaek]

Quite true that generally speaking, our politicians reflect the citizens that put them there. Although many politicians are very deceptive and able to fool voters as to their real persuasions. Take McCain for example. I'm sure most voters do not realize McCain's real intentions and goals Re. socialism and the NWO. Same with Mitt Romney. I'd bet relatively few LDS voters know of his demonstrated disdain for certain moral and constitutional principles.

[Rensai]

And unfortunately, they seem to have the support of most American voters behind them.

That's the root of the problem. The reason Ron Paul isn't president right now is people didn't vote for him. Generally speaking, our politicians reflect the citizens that put them there.

I have to disagree with this. I think in the past it was probably true that politicians reflected the citizens, but today, the fields of marketing and public relations have advanced to the point that it is now trivially easy to deceive and mislead the public. Do some research and you'll be shocked how many of things we accept are nothing but the result of clever advertising. I think the marketing and PR tricks have been so successful, that we now see the arrogance and contempt of our leaders showing through; they have had so much success in the past that now, they don't even try to hide their evil actions anymore. They simply assume that if it's a problem they'll gloss it over with marketing. Everyone here on this forum has seen this. Through MSM marketing, etc they can blatantly go against the will of the people and get away with it.

As for how Satan plans to destroy the US, I think it is everything listed here and many more things. I think Satan has got hundreds or thousands of plans in motion. Everything from undermining the family, our social structure, our morality, our values, our culture, to our economy, our military, and political structure. We find our country today in trouble in so many ways that most people feel overwhelmed even thinking about it and can't begin to know where to start to try and fix it. I have no doubt this country is going to fall and that it is Satan's plan that it do so. Historically every nation has fallen and in addition to history, the BOM tells us that if we let the Gadiantons get above us, (which we have) our destruction is sure. The only question then, is what way? I don't think it will be any one thing. I won't speculate on which of Satans attacks will play the biggest role, but I feel safe in saying it won't be the result of any single factor or attack vector.

[freedomforall]

I have no doubt this country is going to fall

I hope you are wrong. I have felt the same way at times. But from what I have read, unless this country succumbs to ultimate wickedness the Lord won't allow it to happen. Remember, there is still at least one event to take place. Like a Temple at Adam-ondi-Ahman. And with all the Temples previously built, I would think there is still hope.

Just a thought.

[Rose Garden]

Where is Captain Moroni when we need him?

Let's throw off this government while we have a chance. We have the right. We have the responsibility. The USA cart is being pulled by horses headed the wrong direction. How do we get a change of horses?

It's going to take a lot more than just sitting around talking about it. We can't wish Obama out of office.

What would Moroni do today?

What did Captain Moroni do then? He wrote a message on a flag, prayed, and rallied the people. There's the key: he rallied the people. How can there be a captain when there is no army behind him? For the most part, the people aren't ready yet. Now is the time for education, not battle (at least not bloody battle but feel free to do your worst within the legal system).

freedomfighter, you are Captain Moroni. Prepare yourself. The time will come soon enough when your family and friends are very aware that they've been duped and they'll be looking around in dismay for the truth. When that times comes, if you have prepared yourself, you will be the Captain.