Coca-Cola from Heber J Grant

[Jason]

Really though, my take is that we can use moderation in these things. I know that coke and other sweets are bad for our bodies. But heck they sure taste good! So, i will have a coke onc ein a while just so I dont feel deprived. If we deny ourselves of everything all the time we could go nuts.

An occasional soda is ok in my view.

LOL Yeah science would definitely side with you on the health benefits of an occasional glass of wine, occasional can of beer, occasional cup of coffee....

The idea that our strengths can become our weaknesses could be understood to imply that we should have “moderation in all things.” But the Savior said that if we are “lukewarm,” he “will spew [us] out of [his] mouth” (Rev. 3:16). Moderation in all things is not a virtue, because it would seem to justify moderation in commitment. That is not moderation, but indifference. That kind of moderation runs counter to the divine commands to serve with all of our “heart, might, mind and strength” (D&C 4:2), to “seek … earnestly the riches of eternity” (D&C 68:31), and to be “valiant in the testimony of Jesus” (D&C 76:79). Moderation is not the answer.

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN ... 82620aRCRD

[Swan Song]

I've been drinking diet drinks since they first come on the market, and the strong cola drinks before that, I don't believe all these reports about artificial sweeteners. I had an MRI on my brain a few years back, doctors reported no dark spots, wall to wall brain, then they commented "everything looked normal"

Hmmm, my brain-- just normal---

There are people who smoke who can say the same thing about their lungs (my aunt was one of them...died of Alzheimer's at a ripe old age). Your blessed to have a very strong body. Imagine how much stronger it would be without those things.

If we are to survive the physical trials and pandemics of the last days we need to keep our bodies as healthy as we possibly can. Read ingredients when you go to the store. Pretty much anything you can't pronounce is not good for you.

Are you SURE your brain is normal if you are still drinking that stuff knowing what it can do? Just giving you a bad time

[Sunflower]

This thread reminded me of a lesson I had in RS. It is from Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: David O. Mckay, chapter 11, page 103. It gives an account where President Mckay met with the Queen of the Netherlands. She poured tea for President McKay, his wife and herself. President McKay and his wife both didn't drink the tea. The queen asked why they wouldn't have tea with her. President McKay responded, "I must tell you that our people do not believe in drinking stimulants, and we think tea is a stimulant."
Caffeine we know is a stimulant. This has always given me a better understanding. But I guess it is still personal choice.
Interestingly enough the topics within that chapter are as follows 1. The Word of Wisdom is a clear commandment given by revelation from the Lord. 2. Disobeying the Word of Wisdom brings harmful physical and spiritual consequences. 3. We must be watchful against the "evils and designs of conspiring men." 4. Members have a duty to themselves and the Church to live and teach the Word of Wisdom. 5. Living the Word of Wisdom strengthens character and brings happiness.

[oneClimbs]

For all of you anti-caffeine troopers, you might be interested to learn that a bar of Hershey's Special Dark Chocolate has more caffeine than a can of Coke.

Here are some other fun facts:

1oz. of Mountain Dew = 4.5mg of caffeine
1oz. of Coca Cola = 3.8mg of caffeine
1oz. of Milk Chocolate = 6mg of caffeine
1oz. of Baking Chocolate = 35mg of caffeine
http://www.holymtn.com/tea/caffeine_content.htm

Why isn't chocolate against the Word of Wisdom if it's all about caffeine?

As for tea, you may want to look into the amount of flouride and aluminum that the Tea plant absorbs. Forget caffeine.
http://www.poisonfluoride.com/pfpc/html ... ea___.html

Honestly though, it drives me nuts when people are constantly looking to explain away the Word of Wisdom. I'll hear missionaries say that "Oh, it's because of this and that", "Tanic Acid", "Caffeine". It should be enough for us to know that a wise God who created our mortal flesh gave us this counsel in consequence of evil and conspiring men. I guarantee you that there are worse things than tea that the average Saint consumes. It's like Moses and the brass serpent, I wonder how many there were who thought "Gee, I don't see how just looking at a brass snake is going to heal me, that sounds goofy, but maybe when you look at it, the sun reflecting off of brass produces a chemical reaction that neutralizes the venom..."

[Jason]

Well said 5tev3!

Why would the Lord warn us to eat meat sparingly? Only in times of winter or famine?

[ChelC]

Other WOW violators:
http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/

[bobhenstra]

Never touch that stuff Chelc----

[White Feather]

Other WOW violators:
http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/

I can't make up my mind. Its a toss up between the Mork's Dork from Ork, the Luther Rory, and The Smoker!

[ithink]

For all of you anti-caffeine troopers, you might be interested to learn that a bar of Hershey's Special Dark Chocolate has more caffeine than a can of Coke.

Here are some other fun facts:

1oz. of Mountain Dew = 4.5mg of caffeine
1oz. of Coca Cola = 3.8mg of caffeine
1oz. of Milk Chocolate = 6mg of caffeine
1oz. of Baking Chocolate = 35mg of caffeine
http://www.holymtn.com/tea/caffeine_content.htm

Why isn't chocolate against the Word of Wisdom if it's all about caffeine?

As for tea, you may want to look into the amount of flouride and aluminum that the Tea plant absorbs. Forget caffeine.
http://www.poisonfluoride.com/pfpc/html ... ea___.html

Honestly though, it drives me nuts when people are constantly looking to explain away the Word of Wisdom. I'll hear missionaries say that "Oh, it's because of this and that", "Tanic Acid", "Caffeine". It should be enough for us to know that a wise God who created our mortal flesh gave us this counsel in consequence of evil and conspiring men. I guarantee you that there are worse things than tea that the average Saint consumes. It's like Moses and the brass serpent, I wonder how many there were who thought "Gee, I don't see how just looking at a brass snake is going to heal me, that sounds goofy, but maybe when you look at it, the sun reflecting off of brass produces a chemical reaction that neutralizes the venom..."

I think the WoW is best understood by paying strict attention to the beginning of the passage: "Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation— ". It should be evident that men want to make money off of you by addicting you to their products. For some reason, drinks are more addictive than food. Hence, a prohibition on caffeinated drinks, but not foods. Nobody wakes up and says, I have to have my chocolate fix, then again at 10, 12, 2, 4, 6, and 9 o'clock. In general, it doesn't happen. But this happens nearly universally with drinks. That is the distinction I see between chocolate, and coffee and other similar drinks, but without paying close attention to 89:4, you wouldn't see this.

[ktg]

For all of you anti-caffeine troopers, you might be interested to learn that a bar of Hershey's Special Dark Chocolate has more caffeine than a can of Coke.

Here are some other fun facts:

1oz. of Mountain Dew = 4.5mg of caffeine
1oz. of Coca Cola = 3.8mg of caffeine
1oz. of Milk Chocolate = 6mg of caffeine
1oz. of Baking Chocolate = 35mg of caffeine
http://www.holymtn.com/tea/caffeine_content.htm

Why isn't chocolate against the Word of Wisdom if it's all about caffeine?

As for tea, you may want to look into the amount of flouride and aluminum that the Tea plant absorbs. Forget caffeine.
http://www.poisonfluoride.com/pfpc/html ... ea___.html

Honestly though, it drives me nuts when people are constantly looking to explain away the Word of Wisdom. I'll hear missionaries say that "Oh, it's because of this and that", "Tanic Acid", "Caffeine". It should be enough for us to know that a wise God who created our mortal flesh gave us this counsel in consequence of evil and conspiring men. I guarantee you that there are worse things than tea that the average Saint consumes. It's like Moses and the brass serpent, I wonder how many there were who thought "Gee, I don't see how just looking at a brass snake is going to heal me, that sounds goofy, but maybe when you look at it, the sun reflecting off of brass produces a chemical reaction that neutralizes the venom..."

Lately I've thought there may be difference between food that naturally has caffeine, such as chocolate, and foods that have caffeine added to them, like pop. Of course coffee and tea have caffeine in them naturally, but who's to say that's the reason they are listed in the WOW?

[White Feather]

I think the WoW is best understood by paying strict attention to the beginning of the passage: "Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation— ". It should be evident that men want to make money off of you by addicting you to their products. For some reason, drinks are more addictive than food. Hence, a prohibition on caffeinated drinks, but not foods. Nobody wakes up and says, I have to have my chocolate fix, then again at 10, 12, 2, 4, 6, and 9 o'clock. In general, it doesn't happen. But this happens nearly universally with drinks. That is the distinction I see between chocolate, and coffee and other similar drinks, but without paying close attention to 89:4, you wouldn't see this.

I've seen folks addicted to meat! They do their best to attract cancer and support the pharmaceutical industry!

[oneClimbs]

Honestly, I think it's the SUGAR in the drinks that makes them addictive more than the small amounts of caffeine. Think about it. Coca Cola has 34 MILLIgrams of caffeine, and 40 GRAMS of sugar. I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm just showing that sometimes we think we know something when we should really be focusing on trust. Not blind obedience, trust based on experience.

[Mahonri]

why is this conversation still going on? It was mentioned earlier that the current Prophet says it doesn't matter.

we don't obey anything the Prophets ever tell us, so why make such a big deal about this? J Reuben Clark Jr called people that focus on WOW over honesty, word of wisdomites

Home Teaching in the average Ward 30 percent

Temple attendance on a monthly basis: Laughable.

Fast offering: What's that?

Not bearing false witness or not gossiping? Not a single person would go to the Temple if that was a requirement.

Any way, we don't obey the Prophet, and just pick and choose what we want to obey, and call anyone who points out a doctrine we don't like, "self righteous", so why on earth are we talking about wither or not a sugar drink with a stimulant in it is ok or not?

[keeprunning]

Because some of us like to talk about the subject. No big deal.

For me, besides being health robbers and not health givers, I think the reason for the prohibition is more for our personal freedom. How many people do you know that can't function and have nasty withdrawal symptoms if they didn't get their 42 oz diet coke, or their morning cup of coffee or tea? People who abstain from addictive substances are free from that bondage.

And what are they going to do when they don't have their year supply of their addiction? Lots of people are going to be very grumpy and non-functional!

Brigham Young said that it would be better to just stay in bed for a month until you can learn to get on without the coffee or whatever! lol That's how long it might take people to detox for sure!

[DOZ]

This article in the December 2008 ensign opened my eye.



http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h ... 82620aRCRD

[p51-mustang]

Why would the Lord warn us to eat meat sparingly? Only in times of winter or famine?

Yeah, i feel like crap if I eat meat every day for a few days. Clearly that stuff is meant to be enjoyed although sparingly.

[kgrigio]

All of this talk of what Prophets have said or done and the whole Mormon myth thing reminds me of a story a good friend told me about a conference they were in where one of the apostles was answering questions from the audience. Some one asked a question about sabbath day observance and what was/was not appropriate. The apostle related a story about being invited every year to a Christmas party and every year he declines because the party is held Sunday evenings. Most would say that is appropriate, that a party on a Sunday evening isn't keeping the sabbath day holy. The only problem is, according to the apostle, that the person holding the party is a fellow apostle and that most of the other apostles attend the party every year.

Again, I heard the story from someone who was there, but the point is, we are left up to ourselves to decide what is right/wrong for our own lives. We need to study the scriptures and study the words of the prophets when spoken over the pulpit, but in the end, the Spirit needs to be our guide. As long as we don't use the "Spirit prompted me to" as an excuse to break commandments and deviate from the written word, we will be safe.

As for caffeine, is it bad for the body? Yes, but so is my work schedule and lack of sleep, but that is the life I live. I can make every excuse I want for why I drink diet Pepsi, but in the end, I like it. I find it funny that some of those that are the most ardent anti-caffeine people that I know (I am not speaking of people that have posted on this thread) have also been the most unhealthy people I have known and don't follow the entire word of wisdom. It's funny what keys on the piano some tend to play at the exclusion of all the other keys. We all need to do what is right for ourselves.

[ithink]

Honestly, I think it's the SUGAR in the drinks that makes them addictive more than the small amounts of caffeine. Think about it. Coca Cola has 34 MILLIgrams of caffeine, and 40 GRAMS of sugar. I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm just showing that sometimes we think we know something when we should really be focusing on trust. Not blind obedience, trust based on experience.

Here is what caffeine does to your body:

Effects of Caffeine

Caffeine is an example of a stimulant, which is a type of drug that speeds up the action of your brain and also makes you more alert.

From http://science.howstuffworks.com/question531.htm:

Caffeine works by changing the chemistry of the brain. It blocks the action of a natural brain chemical that is associated with sleep. Here is how it works.

If you read the HSW article How Sleep Works, you learned that the chemical adenosine binds to adenosine receptors in the brain. The binding of adenosine causes drowsiness by slowing down nerve cell activity. In the brain, adenosine binding also causes blood vessels to dilate (presumably to let more oxygen in during sleep).

Adenosine is produced by your daily activity. For example, the article How Exercise Works discusses how muscles produce adenosine as one of the byproducts of exercise.

To a nerve cell, caffeine looks like adenosine. Caffeine, therefore, binds to the adenosine receptors. However, it doesn't slow down the cell's activity as adenosine would. The cells cannot sense adenosine anymore because caffeine is taking up all the receptors adenosine binds to. So instead of slowing down because of the adenosine level, the cells speed up. You can see that caffeine also causes the brain's blood vessels to constrict, because it blocks adenosine's ability to open them up. This effect is why some headache medicines, like Anacin, contain caffeine - if you have a vascular headache, the caffeine will close down the blood vessels and relieve it.

With caffeine blocking the adenosine, you have increased neuron firing in the brain. The pituitary gland sees all of the activity and thinks some sort of emergency must be occurring, so it releases hormones that tell the adrenal glands to produce adrenaline (epinephrine). Adrenaline is, of course, the "fight or flight" hormone and it has a number of effects on your body:

* Your pupils dilate
* Your breathing tubes open up (this is why people suffering from severe asthma attacks are sometimes injected with epinephrine)
* Your heart beats faster
* Blood vessels on the surface constrict to slow blood flow from cuts and also to increase blood flow to muscles; blood pressure rises
* Blood flow to the stomach slows
* The liver releases sugar into the bloodstream for extra energy
* Muscles tighten up ready for action

This explains why, after consuming a big cup of coffee, your hands get cold, your muscles tense up, you feel excited and you can feel your heart beat increasing.

Caffeine also increases dopamine levels in the same way that amphetamines do (heroine and cocaine also manipulate dopamine levels by slowing down the rate of dopamine re-uptake). Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that, in certain parts of the brain, activates "reward pathways" (i.e. the pleasure center). Obviously caffeine's effect is much lower than heroin's, but it is the same mechanism. It is suspected that the dopamine connection contributes to caffeine addiction.

So you can see why your body might like caffeine in the short term, especially if you are low on sleep and need to remain active:

* Caffeine blocks adenosine reception so you feel alert.
* It injects adrenaline into the system to give you a boost.
* And it manipulates dopamine production to make you feel good.

The problem with caffeine is the longer-term effects, which tend to spiral. For example, once the adrenaline wears off, you face fatigue and depression. So what are you going to do? You take more caffeine to get the adrenaline going again. As you might imagine, having your body in a state of emergency all day long isn't very healthy, and it also makes you jumpy and irritable.

The most important long-term problem is the effect that caffeine has on sleep. Adenosine reception is important to sleep, and especially to deep sleep. The half-life of caffeine in your body is about six hours. That means that if you consume a big cup of coffee with 200 mg of caffeine in it at 3 p.m., then by 9 p.m. about 100 mg of that caffeine is still in your system. You may be able to fall asleep, but your body probably will miss out on the benefits of deep sleep. That deficit adds up fast. The next day you feel worse, so you need caffeine as soon as you get out of bed. The cycle continues day after day.

This is why 90 percent of Americans consume caffeine every day. Once you get in the cycle, you have to keep taking the drug. Even worse, if you try to stop taking caffeine, you get very tired and depressed and you get a terrible, splitting headache as blood vessels in the brain dilate. These negative effects force you to run back to caffeine even if you want to stop.

It has been said that the reason so many sodas and colas contain added caffeine is to get you hooked. In the same way that addiction to nicotine makes cigarettes such a great consumer product for the companies that produce cigarettes, added caffeine in colas causes an addiction of sorts.

In short, caffeine block dopamine which sets off a series of bodily reactions which include the release of sugar into the bloodstream. So you are correct 5tev3, sugar is involved. The problem with caffeine though is after using it for a long time, your body's natural levels of dopamine are altered adversely, so when you need your body to function normally, to sleep or to get excited, it is not always physiologically possible.

As with other drugs including cocaine (snorted) vs. crack (smoked), or marijuana (smoked) vs. eaten in cookies, the method of administration of the drug matters a whole lot in how the body deals with it, and I believe this includes how caffeine is take in, whether eaten or in drink. I'm not an expert on any of this, even my university physiological psychology classes are getting dim, but thanks to the wiki's anyone can find this stuff out.


Here is another chart on caffeine in various products:

Double espresso (2oz) 45-100 mg
Brewed coffee (8 oz) 60-120 mg
Instant coffee (8 oz) 70 mg
Decaf coffee (8 oz) 1-5 mg
Tea - black (8 oz) 45 mg
Tea - green (8 oz) 20 mg
Tea - white (8 oz) 15 mg
Coca Cola (12 oz can) 34 mg
Pepsi (12 oz can) 38 mg
Barq's Root Beer (12 oz can) 22 mg
7-up (12 oz) 0 mg
Chocolate milk (8 oz) 4 mg
Dark chocolate (1 oz) 20 mg
Milk chocolate (1 oz) 6 mg
Ben & Jerry's Coffee Fudge Frozen Yogurt (8 oz) 85 mg

How much milk chocolate is in a candy bar is the question, too, say 4 oz in an Oh Henry? But I compare how I eat chocolate, which is probably one candy bar eaten twice a month (~24mg caffeine), say with 6 cups of coffee a day (420mg caffeine), or 12.6 grams a month. That is huge!

[White Feather]

High fructose corn syrup or splenda is NOT much better for you than aspartame! Better to just leave it all for when you are desperate for a drink. I'm not a purist, I have sips now and then, but definately don't go out of my way to drink them. Plus the more expensive soda's made with cane sugar isn't good for you either--hello diabetes!

Splenda can shrink your Thymus gland between 30% to 50%.

[Spence]

more injurious ingredients in coca-cola than there are in coffee

I don't think that was a slip of the tongue. Plural.

The reason he says not to drink coke is because of it's addictive qualities. I think we all know of at least one person who at sometime in their life admits of their own free will that they did indeed grow a habit for coke.

I don't think anyone is judging another, but when an ordained prophet of the lord stands up in general conference and advises us to do something, I would hope we would have the nature to follow, however minute that may be.

[Jason]

I don't think anyone is judging another, but when an ordained prophet of the lord stands up in general conference and advises us to do something, I would hope we would have the nature to follow, however minute that may be.

I would hope that the mere suggestion that something is bad for us would cause us to change and embrace the light!

We are the only ones holding ourselves back!

[bobhenstra]

When I told a past bishop that I had a years supply of diet coke, he ask me "do you know what blackmail is?" I was taken aback, what? I muttered. He explains, when the rest of the ward finds out you've a years supply of coke, what do you suppose will happen? Then he adds, "now, if your willing to share with me,--- no one else will find out-----

I told him to get his own, my years supply was protected by a big gun! actually I have 366 cans, I found it pretty difficult to store .24219878th of a can---but I thunk on it---

Bob

[ithink]

When I told a past bishop that I had a years supply of diet coke, he ask me "do you know what blackmail is?" I was taken aback, what? I muttered. He explains, when the rest of the ward finds out you've a years supply of coke, what do you suppose will happen? Then he adds, "now, if your willing to share with me,--- no one else will find out-----

I told him to get his own, my years supply was protected by a big gun! actually I have 366 cans, I found it pretty difficult to store .24219878th of a can---but I thunk on it---

Bob

Whatever, I guess you will need something to practice shooting at when it all goes down. Bob, when Christ comes again, do you plan on sharing a coke with him?

[Jan333]

Don't know how true it is, but I heard Coke also has fluoride in it which contributes to fluoride overload from water we drink, toothpaste, dental treatments, plus canned foods prepared with tap water. In some people fluoride causes hypothyroid with a host of symptoms, including fatigue, weight gain, depression, blood sugar problems,etc. Fluoride is a poison, an industrial waste. Add negative effects of aspartame or high fructose corn syrup, caffeine, carbonation effects, phosphoric acid ( hard water film remover) you get a pretty potent number of reasons why not to consume Coke. There are worse things you can do, but why pollute your already stressed self with an unnecessary stressor like Coke? Some one out there is getting rich off of your insistence on choosing to drink Coke. Just a few thoughts...

[shadow]

Don't know how true it is, but I heard Coke also has fluoride in it which contributes to fluoride overload from water we drink, toothpaste, dental treatments, plus canned foods prepared with tap water. In some people fluoride causes hypothyroid with a host of symptoms, including fatigue, weight gain, depression, blood sugar problems,etc. Fluoride is a poison, an industrial waste. Add negative effects of aspartame or high fructose corn syrup, caffeine, carbonation effects, phosphoric acid ( hard water film remover) you get a pretty potent number of reasons why not to consume Coke. There are worse things you can do, but why pollute your already stressed self with an unnecessary stressor like Coke? Some one out there is getting rich off of your insistence on choosing to drink Coke. Just a few thoughts...

Coke is bad, that's why I drink Pepsi