The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
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LDSNZ
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Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by LDSNZ »

Amore Vero wrote:But I agree that it is vital that we as members encourage our leaders to do what is right & give our support to them by voicing our concerns & opinions as the Spirit directs us to.


Good advice.
Amore Vero wrote:That is always helpful & right & IS our responsiblity.
I agree.
Amore Vero wrote:What they do after that is on their heads.
Yep.
Amore Vero wrote:Thus that's why we should pray for them that they will do the right things & have the Spirit to lead them.
That's right!

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LDSNZ
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Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by LDSNZ »

WYp8riot wrote:I disagree. The scriptures guide us on what to do and never said give up. Church leaders have said previously it will be the work of the elders. I think the main issue is the Samuel Principle in that the members didn't listen when church leaders made the warnings. That does not mean the principle or our responsibility to our understanding of the freedom principles should be as individuals put on the back burner. It also doesn't mean a bishop can't choose to discuss the principles in church.
Bravo, well said.

lundbaek
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Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by lundbaek »

To the question by LDSNZ did I get many votes and will I run again:

I think I came in last. I was a write-in candidate, and many voters wrote my name in wrong. I received more support from the neighboring Congressional District 6 than from my own District 5. And many voters told me they preferred my principles, values, and intentions to all others, but were afraid the Democrat would get elected if they did not vote for the Republican candidate. Some were indignant that I would take away votes from a "good, Republican". The Democrat won anyway.

But my candidacy was a great success in that it afforded me opportunity to awaken many voters, especially LDS voters, to our responsibility to support and defend the US Constitution. That was the only reason I ran in the first place, and it was well worth the expense and effort. And it was an education for me to learn how ignorant LDS voters are of these things.

I am not running again, as I think I accomplished about as much as can be expected in 2008. Ian Gilyeat, an LDS independent candidate with about the same principles, values, and intentions as mine, including strict compliance to the principles of the Founders Constitution, is running for the US Senate against McCain. It would be interesting to know how many LDS voters vote for McCain vs how many vote for Gilyeat.

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LDSNZ
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...

Post by LDSNZ »

lundbaek wrote:I think I came in last. I was a write-in candidate, and many voters wrote my name in wrong.


Oh that would've made things difficult for you.

How come you were a write in candidate?

& do you think it would've made much difference if you weren't a write in candidate?
lundbaek wrote:I received more support from the neighboring Congressional District 6 than from my own District 5.
Ok, is there a online map of those districts? If so & if you have the time will please post the links?
lundbaek wrote:And many voters told me they preferred my principles, values, and intentions to all others, but were afraid the Democrat would get elected if they did not vote for the Republican candidate.
Ok.

I think it's still quite sad that the voters were willing to compromise principle just to ensure sure a Republican got in. But didn't.
lundbaek wrote:Some were indignant that I would take away votes from a "good, Republican".


I think that's weird. In my view Lds voters are either for the constitution or for themselves. I guess their actions have spoken (i.e) which side of the fence they're on, unless of cause their chosen candidate stood for upholding the constitution & more?
lundbaek wrote:But my candidacy was a great success in that it afforded me opportunity to awaken many voters, especially LDS voters, to our responsibility to support and defend the US Constitution.
Good on you.
lundbaek wrote:That was the only reason I ran in the first place, and it was well worth the expense and effort.
Awesome. Big Hug.
lundbaek wrote:And it was an education for me to learn how ignorant LDS voters are of these things.
Amen to that. Am also finding this forum quite educational, so thanx to all you bethren & sisters for posting in here!
lundbaek wrote:I am not running again, as I think I accomplished about as much as can be expected in 2008.
Ok.
lundbaek wrote:Ian Gilyeat, an LDS independent candidate with about the same principles, values, and intentions as mine, including strict compliance to the principles of the Founders Constitution, is running for the US Senate against McCain.
Kool, hope Ian wins! Please keep us posted? & by the way when is the Senate elections?
lundbaek wrote:It would be interesting to know how many LDS voters vote for McCain vs how many vote for Gilyeat.
True & god bless!
Last edited by LDSNZ on August 30th, 2010, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lundbaek
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Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by lundbaek »

To answer LDSNZ's questions;

I was a write-in candidate because I am a amember of the AZ Constitution Party, which does not have ballot access.

I received votes from 2 adjacent districts because some people don't know what district they live in.

We jsut had the primary elections last week. The November elections will include the winners of the Democrat and Reppublican primary elections plus independent candidates and candidates of other so-called third parties.

Some voters who normally fancy themselves conservative and'or republican are looking more closely at other candidates, and some are even considering voting for the democrat candidate; anythin to get shod of McCain. But most voters I am acquainted with simply do not realize how dangerous McCain really is.

Another thing I am seeing, that I have seen before, is voters refusing to believe certain things about certain candidates even when they are on video and shown on youtube. This is especailly true in the case of Mitt Romney.

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LDSNZ
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Questions to Lundbaek?

Post by LDSNZ »

lundbaek wrote:which does not have ballot access.
Why not?
lundbaek wrote:We just had the primary elections last week.
Is that the elections you were a candidate in?
lundbaek wrote:The November elections will include the winners of the Democrat and Republican primary elections plus independent candidates and candidates of other so-called third parties.
1. Well hope the Lds's there wake up! & vote for someone that really stands for the constitution! So go Ian!

2. Am sure Ian & you Lds's who've stood as candidates for your various constituencies have considered or have or are visiting each ward in your districts on fast & testimony day to bear witness to:

a. the constitution;

b. the blessing of following counsels of the prophets concerning it;

c. voting good, honest & wise men (also define from a scriptural perspective what wisdon is) to office?

3. Am sure if yous base your testimony around those things & anything else that's helpful?

a. Like both individual & collective fasting! (Let me know if yous decide to do a collective fast? I will join in).

b. Also perhaps if you're supporting Ian? Expounding what he stands for etc.

4. I believe these things can be carefully woven into your testimony without it been too political, as the church itself is apolitical.

5. So if yous decide to do this? Then am sure yous will be more effective if yous did it as a group in each ward, one after another, bang, bang, bang for maximum impact!

6. Assuming yous have the man power, then rotate each group each month till election day.

God bless you brethren & sisters! I pray for your success!
lundbaek wrote:Some voters who normally fancy themselves conservative and or republican are looking more closely at other candidates, and some are even considering voting for the democrat candidate, anything to get shod of McCain.
Oh I see.
lundbaek wrote:But most voters I am acquainted with simply do not realize how dangerous McCain really is.


Yep he's very dangerous.

I recall seeing him on our Prime Time news (last year I think it was), singing mocking lyrics to the tune of the Beach Boys song quote his words: "bomb Iran".
lundbaek wrote:Another thing I am seeing, that I have seen before, is voters refusing to believe certain things about certain candidates even when they are on video and shown on youtube. This is especailly true in the case of Mitt Romney.
True!

lundbaek
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Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by lundbaek »

The Constitution Party in Arizona could not get enough signatures on petitions to gain ballot access, neither in 2008 when I ran for US Congress, not in this year 2010. Many voters who espouse the principles of the Constitution Party are still trying to fix the Republican Party from within thru the Arizona Republican Assembly.

I like your idea of visiting various wards on fast & testimony day to bear witness to our responsibility to the constitution; the blessing of following counsels of the prophets concerning it; and the advisability of voting good, honest & wise men (who clearly espouse the Constitution) to office. I have done that in our ward and one other ward where I was visiting. I am sure that if I did that in our stake I would be repremanded by the stake presidency. If I could even get a couple or a few others to do the same in our stake we would be reprimanded. Our stake president has already recently told me that he does not want this topic introduced in church meetings. I'd be interested to know what others of you forum members think of that idea, and what would come of it.

But I appreciate the suggestion, and I will discuss it with the very few serious LDS constitutionalists I know in the Constitution Party and thru church.

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LDSNZ
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Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

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lundbaek wrote:The Constitution Party in Arizona could not get enough signatures on petitions to gain ballot access, neither in 2008 when I ran for US Congress, not in this year 2010. Many voters who espouse the principles of the Constitution Party are still trying to fix the Republican Party from within thru the Arizona Republican Assembly.
Oh I see thanx for sharing that.
lundbaek wrote:I like your idea of visiting various wards on fast & testimony day to bear witness to our responsibility to the constitution; the blessing of following counsels of the prophets concerning it; and the advisability of voting good, honest & wise men (who clearly espouse the Constitution) to office. I have done that in our ward and one other ward where I was visiting.
You're welcome & good on you.
lundbaek wrote:I am sure that if I did that in our stake I would be repremanded by the stake presidency. If I could even get a couple or a few others to do the same in our stake we would be reprimanded. Our stake president has already recently told me that he does not want this topic introduced in church meetings. I'd be interested to know what others of you forum members think of that idea, and what would come of it.
I'm of the firm belief that so long as your testimony bearing is centred around the teachings of the prophets, you can't go wrong!

So if your Stake Presidency decided to reprimand you on those things? Then I blieve he/they would be exercising unrighteous dominion & overstepping his/their boundary(ies)!
lundbaek wrote:But I appreciate the suggestion, and I will discuss it with the very few serious LDS constitutionalists I know in the Constitution Party and thru church.
Awesome.

May the Spirit of the Lord be poured down upon yous concerning this most important & unselfish act of service!

Amore Vero
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Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Amore Vero »

LDSNZ wrote:
lundbaek wrote:I am sure that if I did that in our stake I would be repremanded by the stake presidency. If I could even get a couple or a few others to do the same in our stake we would be reprimanded. Our stake president has already recently told me that he does not want this topic introduced in church meetings.

My, how the prophesy has come true, that 'good' is considered 'bad' now & 'bad' is considered 'good', even by most members & leaders. Today many are disciplined & looked down on for doing what's right, in regards to political things & many other areas of the Gospel. It's a sad & somber day for the Church.

lundbaek
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Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by lundbaek »

I think I have done about all that one can do to persuade our stake leadership to remind members or make them aware of our responsibility to support constitutional principles in our government. Our stake president told me it is not a timely subject at this time, and that home teaching and reactivation are the important issues now. So that puts the ball in his court. And on this past fast and testimony Sunday I felt prompted specifically to not say anything about our duty to honour the Constitution. The message I got was "Don't say that." I can only conclude that conditions in our stake are such that the freedom issue would only be a distraction from home teaching, reactivation, and temle readiness.

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shadow
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Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by shadow »

lundbaek wrote:I think I have done about all that one can do to persuade our stake leadership to remind members or make them aware of our responsibility to support constitutional principles in our government. Our stake president told me it is not a timely subject at this time, and that home teaching and reactivation are the important issues now. So that puts the ball in his court. And on this past fast and testimony Sunday I felt prompted specifically to not say anything about our duty to honour the Constitution. The message I got was "Don't say that." I can only conclude that conditions in our stake are such that the freedom issue would only be a distraction from home teaching, reactivation, and temle readiness.
The ball was in your stake presidents court the day he was set apart as stake president. The ball was NEVER in your court. It's interesting to read that the HG gave you the same prompting your stake president has already been obeying :idea: . The best thing to do is get behind him and sustain him.
I found it a bit ironic that some of you suggest "ward hopping" on fast Sundays as a way to teach about the "blessings of following counsels of the prophets concerning the constitution". The counsel from the brethren is to not do that. The counsel is to stay in your own ward and let your bishop and stake presidents set the tone in their stewardships. They also recommend people share their testimonies of Christ during testimony meetings.
Pound your key with family, friends, and neighbors on your time. Leave church time to those who have been called and set apart to do that very thing.

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LDSNZ
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Reply to Lundbaek!

Post by LDSNZ »

lundbaek wrote:I think I have done about all that one can do to persuade our stake leadership to remind members or make them aware of our responsibility to support constitutional principles in our government.
1. Just wondering if there's an appeal process?

1.1 & if these scriptures:

D & C 102:27,31,33 as well as D & C 107:32 might apply to your situation?
lundbaek wrote:Our stake president told me it is not a timely subject at this time,
2. Ok, bearing in mind the prophets have been telling us for years & with all due respect did he indicate when the right time would be?
lundbaek wrote:and that home teaching and reactivation are the important issues now.
3. Yes they are & equally as important is balancing everything up to include the constitution.
lundbaek wrote:So that puts the ball in his court.
4. It sure does!
lundbaek wrote:And on this past fast and testimony Sunday I felt prompted specifically to not say anything about our duty to honour the Constitution. The message I got was "Don't say that."
5. Awesome. Good that you're in tune & followed the prompting.
lundbaek wrote:I can only conclude that conditions in our stake are such that the freedom issue would only be a distraction from home teaching, reactivation, and temple readiness.
6. Ok thankyou for your example of humility & obedience.

7. Ditto 3 & 1.1 above.

God bless!

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LDSNZ
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Reply to Shadow!

Post by LDSNZ »

shadow wrote:The best thing to do is get behind him and sustain him.
It most surely is.
shadow wrote:The ball was NEVER in your court
I don't recall Lundbaek indicating that it ever was.
shadow wrote:I found it a bit ironic that some of you suggest "ward hopping" on fast Sundays as a way to teach about the "blessings of following counsels of the prophets concerning the constitution".
Perceive it as you like, but I personally do not see it the way you do!
shadow wrote:The counsel from the brethren is to not do that.
I do not see what has been suggested as Ward Hopping! So I disagree with your perception.

God bless & have a great day!
Last edited by LDSNZ on August 31st, 2010, 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lundbaek
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Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by lundbaek »

I would not expect any church authority to put a time line or precise conditions on something like when we will start talking about maintaining constitutional principles in government again. As for appealing the stake president's decision, I would only consider even broaching the subject with him in a situation in which I felt good about it. And I sure don't now.

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LDSNZ
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Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by LDSNZ »

lundbaek wrote:I would not expect any church authority to put a time line or precise conditions on something like when we will start talking about maintaining constitutional principles in government again. As for appealing the stake president's decision, I would only consider even broaching the subject with him in a situation in which I felt good about it. And I sure don't now.
Ok, I respect your decision.

Have a great day!

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