The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
Amore Vero
captain of 100
Posts: 935

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Amore Vero »

Geeswell wrote: So yes, i still stand by my stance by saying that the focus needs to be on the saving principles and ordinances of the Gospel. you certainly won't be saved without those, no matter how many gadiantons you slay
I believe that no matter how much temple work or ordinances we do for ourselves or others or how many other Gospel principles we live, if we don't fight for freedom in this life like we did in our former life, it will mean little, just as all the work that Satan must have done in the pre-existence to get as high as he did, mean't nothing, when in the end he refused to fight for freedom.

Even Moroni, a man of perfect understanding, didn't seem to stop & ask the men he was slaying, because they wouldn't fight for freedom, if they had done any other great works prior to that time. Whatever great works they would have listed, wouldn't have saved them from his sword.

User avatar
BroJones
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 8247
Location: Varies.
Contact:

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by BroJones »

Excellent quotes, KTG. I like this!
“The record of the Nephite history just prior to the Savior’s visit reveals many parallels to our own day as we anticipate the Savior’s second coming. The Nephite civilization had reached great heights. They were prosperous and industrious…….
“But, as so often happens, the people rejected the Lord. Pride became commonplace. Dishonesty and immorality were widespread. Secret combinations flourished because, as Helaman tells us, the Gadianton robbers “had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils” (Hel. 6:38)…even as today (3 Ne. 6:15).” (April 1987 General Conference, “The Savior’s Visit To America”)
Several have noted the human tendency to not question Big Lies, especially when told by governments, even though people will catch the small lies. So -- to avoid being deceived -- we must question even the official stories of major events.

User avatar
WYp8riot
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1609
Location: WYOMING

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by WYp8riot »

Consider this scripture....

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/7

If communism and socialism bring forth bad fruit and men who give blessings and cast out Devils are supporting communism and socialism, they are working in direct opposition to Christs plan.

are they not?

Squally
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1296

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Squally »


Mathew 7
15 ¶ Beware of afalse prophets, which come to you in bsheep’s clothing, but cinwardly they are ravening dwolves.
16 Ye shall aknow them by their bfruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth agood bfruit; but a ccorrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good afruit is bhewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their afruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that asaith unto me, bLord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that cdoeth the dwill of my Father which is in eheaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not aprophesied in thy name? and in thy bname have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never aknew you: bdepart from me, ye that work ciniquity
.
Interesting concept Wypatriot regarding members bringing forth evil fruit even as they do things in the name of the Lord.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by lundbaek »

I'm uncomfortable with the idea that no matter how much temple work or ordinances we do for ourselves or others or how many other Gospel principles we live, if we don't fight for freedom in this life like we did in our former life, it will mean little, just as all the work that Satan must have done in the pre-existence to get as high as he did, mean't nothing, when in the end he refused to fight for freedom. I say this because I have encountered resistance from both our stake president and bishop to my suggestions that attention be given in our ward and stake meetings to our responsibility to learn and support constitutional principles in government. The reasons given me in each discussion were that other issues, including temple readiness and increased spirituality, are of such import now that there is n o time to address freedom. I say this with all due respect for the scriptures that indicate I am wrong.

Amore Vero
captain of 100
Posts: 935

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Amore Vero »

lundbaek wrote:I'm uncomfortable with the idea that no matter how much temple work or ordinances we do for ourselves or others or how many other Gospel principles we live, if we don't fight for freedom in this life like we did in our former life, it will mean little, just as all the work that Satan must have done in the pre-existence to get as high as he did, mean't nothing, when in the end he refused to fight for freedom. I say this because I have encountered resistance from both our stake president and bishop to my suggestions that attention be given in our ward and stake meetings to our responsibility to learn and support constitutional principles in government. The reasons given me in each discussion were that other issues, including temple readiness and increased spirituality, are of such import now that there is n o time to address freedom. I say this with all due respect for the scriptures that indicate I am wrong.

We are told by Prophets that very few in the last days will be willing or see the need to fight for freedom. It is professied & we can see this happening today big time, that almost everyone will be deceived to support Gadiantons & force, & thus lose everything, including temple ordinances & spirituality.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by lundbaek »

I am not being contentious with anyone who believes that no matter how much temple work or ordinances we do for ourselves or others or how many other Gospel principles we live, if we don't fight for freedom in this life like we did in our former life, it will mean little. I really appreciate the comments on this thread. But I do think that if I were to challenge our stake president's putting freedom, constitutional principles and secret combinations on a back burner or off the stove altogether, higher authorities, including the First Presidency, would back the sstake president's decision.

I posted a few weeks ago that I suggested to our bishop and our stake president seperately that maybe 5 minutes be given to these Gospel principles (which I believe they are) in either sacrament meetings or in a stake priesthood meeting or stake conference. My suggestion was rejected by both. May I ask you all to approach your bishop and/or stake president and report back on the response you get.

User avatar
shadow
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10542
Location: St. George

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by shadow »

lundbaek wrote: May I ask you all to approach your bishop and/or stake president and report back on the response you get.
Why? It isn't my place to tell my Bishop or SP what should be discussed in Sacrament meeting or during a session of stake conference. I think you discovered it isn't your place either.

User avatar
Rensai
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1340

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Rensai »

lundbaek wrote:I am not being contentious with anyone who believes that no matter how much temple work or ordinances we do for ourselves or others or how many other Gospel principles we live, if we don't fight for freedom in this life like we did in our former life, it will mean little. I really appreciate the comments on this thread. But I do think that if I were to challenge our stake president's putting freedom, constitutional principles and secret combinations on a back burner or off the stove altogether, higher authorities, including the First Presidency, would back the sstake president's decision.

I posted a few weeks ago that I suggested to our bishop and our stake president seperately that maybe 5 minutes be given to these Gospel principles (which I believe they are) in either sacrament meetings or in a stake priesthood meeting or stake conference. My suggestion was rejected by both. May I ask you all to approach your bishop and/or stake president and report back on the response you get.
I think the reason freedom is on the back burner is because its simply too late. Earlier prophets preached heavily about it and we, as a church, failed. That doesn't mean we can't still talk about it and try to teach its correct principles to people in preparation for after the cleansing, but right now it is not a priority to the church because we missed the day for fighting for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKldpMBzMYs

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by lundbaek »

Good grief, Shadow. I didn't say I told my bishop and stake president what should be discussed in Sacrament meeting or during a session of stake conference. There is quite a difference between suggesting and insisting that a particular topic be discussed. And I certainly did not detect any reprimand from either for making the suggestion. Nor did I get a message that I was out of place. There may be some who would consider me out of place, but that's tough. Both our bishop and our stake president know where I am coming from on this issue, and why. I ran for US Congress in our congressional district in 2008. Neither seemed surprised at my suggestion. And, BTW, this topic has been spoken about recently in a few wards that I am aware of.

Amore Vero
captain of 100
Posts: 935

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Amore Vero »

lundbaek wrote:But I do think that if I were to challenge our stake president's putting freedom, constitutional principles and secret combinations on a back burner or off the stove altogether, higher authorities, including the First Presidency, would back the sstake president's decision.
That's because you are not responsible or accountable for what the Bishop or Stake Pres. does in their leadership stewardships, good or bad. They will have to answer for that & the First Presidency will support them in making the call on what to focus on & also require them to answer for all their decisions.

But I agree that it is vital that we as members encourage our leaders to do what is right & give our support to them by voicing our concerns & opinions as the Spirit directs us to. That is always helpful & right & IS our responsiblity. What they do after that is on their heads. I only know I don't envy their 'accountability' for protecting & leading so many people correctly. Thus that's why we should pray for them that they will do the right things & have the Spirit to lead them.
Last edited by Amore Vero on August 10th, 2010, 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Amore Vero
captain of 100
Posts: 935

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Amore Vero »

Rensai wrote: I think the reason freedom is on the back burner is because its simply too late. Earlier prophets preached heavily about it and we, as a church, failed. That doesn't mean we can't still talk about it and try to teach its correct principles to people in preparation for after the cleansing, but right now it is not a priority to the church because we missed the day for fighting for it.
Bingo! I totally agree! We missed our chance & now we must just prepare to survive what we brought on ourselves.

Though we should never stop trying to educate others around us about 'Freedom' to help them also repent & survive what's coming & be prepared to build up Zion after the cleansing.

buffalo_girl
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7017

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by buffalo_girl »

I'm not sure it's too late on a one-to-one basis. Maybe that's why we are counseled to 'preach' and 'do good works'.

Nebuchadnezzar was given a frightful dream by the Lord which no one in his court could interpret. When called to offer an interpretation, Daniel was unable to speak for an hour. What Daniel then related was that Nebuchadnezzar must 'break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.'

I'm also not sure if facing the wicked rulers of this earth to preach to them about their need to repent is a coward's assignment.

Daniel gave Nebuchadnezzar the interpretation; the warning which the king chose to ignore another 12 months - ever confident of his power and might:

29 At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.
30 The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
31 While the word was in the king’s mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.
32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles’ feathers, and his nails like birds’ claws.
34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase
.


Daniel's mission was to stand before a wicked king to testify of the truth. The Lord set up the lesson plan and provided the consequences if Nebuchadnezzar refused to repent. After seven years of crawling around on all fours as a 'crazy man', the king truly did come to his senses, becoming a great and humble man of righteousness.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by lundbaek »

I also think the name of the game now is to keep trying to educate others around us about 'Freedom' and constitutional principles to help them also repent & survive what's coming & be prepared to build up Zion after the cleansing. But apparently this should not be done in church meetings or church buildings, or in any situation where the impression might be created that we are speaking Church doctrine or policy. It can and should be done among non-members as well as among members.

User avatar
shadow
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10542
Location: St. George

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by shadow »

lundbaek wrote:I also think the name of the game now is to keep trying to educate others around us about 'Freedom' and constitutional principles to help them also repent & survive what's coming & be prepared to build up Zion after the cleansing. But apparently this should not be done in church meetings or church buildings, or in any situation where the impression might be created that we are speaking Church doctrine or policy. It can and should be done among non-members as well as among members.
Once people repent the result will be more freedom. Individually first, then as more people repent we'll see a freer country. A wicked people cannot have freedom. Sorry Charlie. You can pound freedom all day long but unless people repent and change their ways you won't have success. Church leaders seem to be aware of this principle :idea:

User avatar
Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Jason »

Rensai wrote:
lundbaek wrote:I am not being contentious with anyone who believes that no matter how much temple work or ordinances we do for ourselves or others or how many other Gospel principles we live, if we don't fight for freedom in this life like we did in our former life, it will mean little. I really appreciate the comments on this thread. But I do think that if I were to challenge our stake president's putting freedom, constitutional principles and secret combinations on a back burner or off the stove altogether, higher authorities, including the First Presidency, would back the sstake president's decision.

I posted a few weeks ago that I suggested to our bishop and our stake president seperately that maybe 5 minutes be given to these Gospel principles (which I believe they are) in either sacrament meetings or in a stake priesthood meeting or stake conference. My suggestion was rejected by both. May I ask you all to approach your bishop and/or stake president and report back on the response you get.
I think the reason freedom is on the back burner is because its simply too late. Earlier prophets preached heavily about it and we, as a church, failed. That doesn't mean we can't still talk about it and try to teach its correct principles to people in preparation for after the cleansing, but right now it is not a priority to the church because we missed the day for fighting for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKldpMBzMYs
Amen!

Amore Vero
captain of 100
Posts: 935

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Amore Vero »

shadow wrote: A wicked people cannot have freedom. Sorry Charlie. You can pound freedom all day long but unless people repent and change their ways you won't have success. Church leaders seem to be aware of this principle :idea:
So true. That's because 'Freedom', like 'Righteousness', is really spelled 'R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y'. Most people will sell their souls for a free ride.

fps.sledge
captain of 100
Posts: 331
Location: Delta, UT

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by fps.sledge »

lundbaek wrote:I also think the name of the game now is to keep trying to educate others around us about 'Freedom' and constitutional principles to help them also repent & survive what's coming & be prepared to build up Zion after the cleansing. But apparently this should not be done in church meetings or church buildings, or in any situation where the impression might be created that we are speaking Church doctrine or policy. It can and should be done among non-members as well as among members.

BUMP! I agree, except with the phrase "this should not be done". But I do understand where you're coming from. I would be quite alarmed if freedom was the highlight topic in sacrament meeting. I do believe it should be MORE of a topic than I have seen, but I would like my sunday meetings remain centered on Christ. Again, doesn't mean there can't be a little more discussion as to principles of freedom.

As far as telling our priesthood leaders how to do things, there's nothing wrong at all with offering suggestions and ideas to leadership. Ask these leaders about it, they would likely invite this behavior. The behavior that's frowned upon is insisting your ideas with constant rejection. Priesthood leaders do have authority over within their callings. This does not however means they've perfect in these. I asked my Mission President once (former bishop, SP, etc) if God allows him to make mistakes in his calling and without hesitation he responded, "Absolutely." We must be obedient, but we can always give input and ideas. We just need to be mature in our approach to those ideas. As a leader in the mission, I came across an example in the Book of Mormon where solutions came from below priesthood leaders. This led to many ideas coming from missionaries "under" me.

User avatar
WYp8riot
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1609
Location: WYOMING

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by WYp8riot »

Rensai wrote:
lundbaek wrote:I am not being contentious with anyone who believes that no matter how much temple work or ordinances we do for ourselves or others or how many other Gospel principles we live, if we don't fight for freedom in this life like we did in our former life, it will mean little. I really appreciate the comments on this thread. But I do think that if I were to challenge our stake president's putting freedom, constitutional principles and secret combinations on a back burner or off the stove altogether, higher authorities, including the First Presidency, would back the sstake president's decision.

I posted a few weeks ago that I suggested to our bishop and our stake president seperately that maybe 5 minutes be given to these Gospel principles (which I believe they are) in either sacrament meetings or in a stake priesthood meeting or stake conference. My suggestion was rejected by both. May I ask you all to approach your bishop and/or stake president and report back on the response you get.
I think the reason freedom is on the back burner is because its simply too late. Earlier prophets preached heavily about it and we, as a church, failed. That doesn't mean we can't still talk about it and try to teach its correct principles to people in preparation for after the cleansing, but right now it is not a priority to the church because we missed the day for fighting for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKldpMBzMYs
I disagree. The scriptures guide us on what to do and never said give up. Church leaders have said previously it will be the work of the elders. I think the main issue is the Samuel Principle in that the members didn't listen when church leaders made the warnings. That does not mean the principle or our responsibility to our understanding of the freedom principles should be as individuals put on the back burner. It also doesn't mean a bishop can't choose to discuss the principles in church.

Amore Vero
captain of 100
Posts: 935

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Amore Vero »

fps.sledge wrote: I would be quite alarmed if freedom was the highlight topic in sacrament meeting. I do believe it should be MORE of a topic than I have seen, but I would like my sunday meetings remain centered on Christ.
Freedom is all about Christ. Christ is Freedom. Standing for Freedom is being Christlike. This is a most powerful topic that could save the Church or at least save marriages & families.

For the destructions foretold are fast approaching because of Freedom issues. Especially on a family level. Most marriages & families are disintegrating because of the lack of freedom & respect for rights in marriage, especially for women. Without freedom on the marriage level there can never be freedom for long on the national level.

natasha
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2184

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by natasha »

Just being a little picky guys....it is now (as announced by the Brethren) the 4-fold mission of the Church....the 4th being taking care of the poor. And when you think about it, if each community, and each church within those communities, would take care of the poor...there would be no "need" for welfare and the welfare rolls that have become "voting rolls".

Regardless of where people are in the world, the answer to all ills is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...it's all encompassing. There is nothing of good report that is not spiritual in nature. I wish I would hear more talk about our love for our fellow sisters and brothers rather than posting so called stats regarding "how many" are awake....or "how many" are righteous, etc. I love all the brothers and sisters that I know and do not percieve their weaknesses. So many of them have strengths that collectively outweigh the weaknesses....and they contribute so much to me individually that I can draw on and use to overcome my own weaknesses. None of us know where another is on the "progression scale". Perhaps the brother or sister that we might perceive as "lacking" is much further along than we are for the extent of knowledge and understanding they have.


Amore Vero wrote:
fps.sledge wrote:It should obviously be a priority in our lives to focus on the 3-mission fold.
The reason we are even down here on this earth to do things like the 3 fold-mission of the Church, is because we fought for freedom in the life before this.

And if we aren't vigilant & continually fighting for & protecting our freedoms here & now, the opportunity to even be able to do the 3 fold missions of the Church will be taken away from us. And no one can disregard freedom & even stay righteous & worthy to participate in the 3 fold mission of the Church.

User avatar
WYp8riot
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1609
Location: WYOMING

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by WYp8riot »

natasha wrote:Just being a little picky guys....it is now (as announced by the Brethren) the 4-fold mission of the Church....the 4th being taking care of the poor. And when you think about it, if each community, and each church within those communities, would take care of the poor...there would be no "need" for welfare and the welfare rolls that have become "voting rolls".

Regardless of where people are in the world, the answer to all ills is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...it's all encompassing. There is nothing of good report that is not spiritual in nature. I wish I would hear more talk about our love for our fellow sisters and brothers rather than posting so called stats regarding "how many" are awake....or "how many" are righteous, etc. I love all the brothers and sisters that I know and do not percieve their weaknesses. So many of them have strengths that collectively outweigh the weaknesses....and they contribute so much to me individually that I can draw on and use to overcome my own weaknesses. None of us know where another is on the "progression scale". Perhaps the brother or sister that we might perceive as "lacking" is much further along than we are for the extent of knowledge and understanding they have.


Amore Vero wrote:
fps.sledge wrote:It should obviously be a priority in our lives to focus on the 3-mission fold.
The reason we are even down here on this earth to do things like the 3 fold-mission of the Church, is because we fought for freedom in the life before this.


And if we aren't vigilant & continually fighting for & protecting our freedoms here & now, the opportunity to even be able to do the 3 fold missions of the Church will be taken away from us. And no one can disregard freedom & even stay righteous & worthy to participate in the 3 fold mission of the Church.
Interesting and good point. THis has raised the question by some as to why this was added. Has not that always been our responsibility? Why was the law of tithing added? A Free society has few laws and does not need to be commanded in all things. The less we obey the first law in heaven (Obedience) the more laws we are given.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by lundbaek »

I suppose the fourth mission, helping to support those in need, was added as a way to emphasize its importance and to prepare us for worsening economic conditions. My wife and I have already been asked to double our fast offering.

User avatar
Gideon
captain of 100
Posts: 605

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Gideon »

The Book of Mormon was written for us, the Nephites didn't have it. All the warnings about secret combinations are for us. The words of the Lord in the D&C about the Constitution, and the commandment to find good, honorable and wise leaders have not been amended. Section 134 is still scripture.

Has any member of the First Presidency or Quorum of the Twelve ever said that our freedom wasn't important? It is because of our freedom in this land that the Church can exist.

Perhaps the Constitution and freedom are on the back burner for some temporary local leaders, but they aren't for Satan:
http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng ... aw-society

If we lose our liberties, we will lose the opportunity to bring souls to Christ, which is the mission of the church.

User avatar
Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

Post by Jason »

Gideon wrote:The Book of Mormon was written for us, the Nephites didn't have it. All the warnings about secret combinations are for us. The words of the Lord in the D&C about the Constitution, and the commandment to find good, honorable and wise leaders have not been amended. Section 134 is still scripture.

Has any member of the First Presidency or Quorum of the Twelve ever said that our freedom wasn't important? It is because of our freedom in this land that the Church can exist.

Perhaps the Constitution and freedom are on the back burner for some temporary local leaders, but they aren't for Satan:
http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng ... aw-society

If we lose our liberties, we will lose the opportunity to bring souls to Christ, which is the mission of the church.
IF WE LOSE OUR LIBERTIES?????

Hello they are mostly gone! Otherwise the Church could be more outspoken on the matter!


America 1950 Vs. America 2010
http://thetruthwins.com/archives/americ ... erica-2010
“Our great Constitution has been beaten and torn until now it hangs by a single thread, and that thread is our franchise to vote.” (Ezra Taft Benson, Freeman Institute, Provo, Utah, 1976.)
http://www.zeios.com/OurRepublic/Author/14
Last edited by Anonymous on August 19th, 2010, 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply