The Tools Of Satan. How the Saints Can Avoid Deception.

[natasha]

Just being a little picky guys....it is now (as announced by the Brethren) the 4-fold mission of the Church....the 4th being taking care of the poor. And when you think about it, if each community, and each church within those communities, would take care of the poor...there would be no "need" for welfare and the welfare rolls that have become "voting rolls".

Regardless of where people are in the world, the answer to all ills is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...it's all encompassing. There is nothing of good report that is not spiritual in nature. I wish I would hear more talk about our love for our fellow sisters and brothers rather than posting so called stats regarding "how many" are awake....or "how many" are righteous, etc. I love all the brothers and sisters that I know and do not percieve their weaknesses. So many of them have strengths that collectively outweigh the weaknesses....and they contribute so much to me individually that I can draw on and use to overcome my own weaknesses. None of us know where another is on the "progression scale". Perhaps the brother or sister that we might perceive as "lacking" is much further along than we are for the extent of knowledge and understanding they have.

It should obviously be a priority in our lives to focus on the 3-mission fold.

The reason we are even down here on this earth to do things like the 3 fold-mission of the Church, is because we fought for freedom in the life before this.

And if we aren't vigilant & continually fighting for & protecting our freedoms here & now, the opportunity to even be able to do the 3 fold missions of the Church will be taken away from us. And no one can disregard freedom & even stay righteous & worthy to participate in the 3 fold mission of the Church.

[WYp8riot]

Just being a little picky guys....it is now (as announced by the Brethren) the 4-fold mission of the Church....the 4th being taking care of the poor. And when you think about it, if each community, and each church within those communities, would take care of the poor...there would be no "need" for welfare and the welfare rolls that have become "voting rolls".

Regardless of where people are in the world, the answer to all ills is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...it's all encompassing. There is nothing of good report that is not spiritual in nature. I wish I would hear more talk about our love for our fellow sisters and brothers rather than posting so called stats regarding "how many" are awake....or "how many" are righteous, etc. I love all the brothers and sisters that I know and do not percieve their weaknesses. So many of them have strengths that collectively outweigh the weaknesses....and they contribute so much to me individually that I can draw on and use to overcome my own weaknesses. None of us know where another is on the "progression scale". Perhaps the brother or sister that we might perceive as "lacking" is much further along than we are for the extent of knowledge and understanding they have.

It should obviously be a priority in our lives to focus on the 3-mission fold.

The reason we are even down here on this earth to do things like the 3 fold-mission of the Church, is because we fought for freedom in the life before this.


And if we aren't vigilant & continually fighting for & protecting our freedoms here & now, the opportunity to even be able to do the 3 fold missions of the Church will be taken away from us. And no one can disregard freedom & even stay righteous & worthy to participate in the 3 fold mission of the Church.

Interesting and good point. THis has raised the question by some as to why this was added. Has not that always been our responsibility? Why was the law of tithing added? A Free society has few laws and does not need to be commanded in all things. The less we obey the first law in heaven (Obedience) the more laws we are given.

[lundbaek]

I suppose the fourth mission, helping to support those in need, was added as a way to emphasize its importance and to prepare us for worsening economic conditions. My wife and I have already been asked to double our fast offering.

[Gideon]

The Book of Mormon was written for us, the Nephites didn't have it. All the warnings about secret combinations are for us. The words of the Lord in the D&C about the Constitution, and the commandment to find good, honorable and wise leaders have not been amended. Section 134 is still scripture.

Has any member of the First Presidency or Quorum of the Twelve ever said that our freedom wasn't important? It is because of our freedom in this land that the Church can exist.

Perhaps the Constitution and freedom are on the back burner for some temporary local leaders, but they aren't for Satan:
http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng ... aw-society

If we lose our liberties, we will lose the opportunity to bring souls to Christ, which is the mission of the church.

[Jason]

The Book of Mormon was written for us, the Nephites didn't have it. All the warnings about secret combinations are for us. The words of the Lord in the D&C about the Constitution, and the commandment to find good, honorable and wise leaders have not been amended. Section 134 is still scripture.

Has any member of the First Presidency or Quorum of the Twelve ever said that our freedom wasn't important? It is because of our freedom in this land that the Church can exist.

Perhaps the Constitution and freedom are on the back burner for some temporary local leaders, but they aren't for Satan:
http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng ... aw-society

If we lose our liberties, we will lose the opportunity to bring souls to Christ, which is the mission of the church.

IF WE LOSE OUR LIBERTIES?????

Hello they are mostly gone! Otherwise the Church could be more outspoken on the matter!


America 1950 Vs. America 2010
http://thetruthwins.com/archives/americ ... erica-2010

“Our great Constitution has been beaten and torn until now it hangs by a single thread, and that thread is our franchise to vote.” (Ezra Taft Benson, Freeman Institute, Provo, Utah, 1976.)

http://www.zeios.com/OurRepublic/Author/14

[lundbaek]

One of my LDS friends who is active in promoting a return to constitutional principles in our government became concerned about how other LDS voters were deciding whom to vote for in recent and up-coming elections. Most of those he asked admitted they had done little or no "homework" of their own, and some stated they relied mostly on prayer to gain inspiration on whom to vote for. My friend asked the few voters in the group relying mostly on prayer whom they did vote for on the basis of perceived inspiration, and found they were not voting for the same candidates for any given office. (See D&C 9: 7-8)

[ndjili]

Once people repent the result will be more freedom. Individually first, then as more people repent we'll see a freer country. A wicked people cannot have freedom. Sorry Charlie. You can pound freedom all day long but unless people repent and change their ways you won't have success. Church leaders seem to be aware of this principle

I totally agree. Though repentance is not a popular subject.

Just being a little picky guys....it is now (as announced by the Brethren) the 4-fold mission of the Church....the 4th being taking care of the poor. And when you think about it, if each community, and each church within those communities, would take care of the poor...there would be no "need" for welfare and the welfare rolls that have become "voting rolls".

Interesting thing. I have been reading much about helping the poor and idleness. Apparently in the city of Zion there were no poor..but there were no idlers either. Everyone worked..doing whatever they could and contributing whatever they could. Sorry just thinking aloud. Wickedness and idleness have taken over...we suffer from idle worshop not idol worship these days.

[Jason]

Once people repent the result will be more freedom. Individually first, then as more people repent we'll see a freer country. A wicked people cannot have freedom. Sorry Charlie. You can pound freedom all day long but unless people repent and change their ways you won't have success. Church leaders seem to be aware of this principle

I totally agree. Though repentance is not a popular subject.

Just being a little picky guys....it is now (as announced by the Brethren) the 4-fold mission of the Church....the 4th being taking care of the poor. And when you think about it, if each community, and each church within those communities, would take care of the poor...there would be no "need" for welfare and the welfare rolls that have become "voting rolls".

Interesting thing. I have been reading much about helping the poor and idleness. Apparently in the city of Zion there were no poor..but there were no idlers either. Everyone worked..doing whatever they could and contributing whatever they could. Sorry just thinking aloud. Wickedness and idleness have taken over...we suffer from idle worshop not idol worship these days.

....and the system is designed to create such

[LDSNZ]

In view of the commandments to awaken to our "awful situation", to "befriend" the Constitution, to learn of history, current events and prophecies, and to assist in bringing to light the "hidden things of darkness", it seems to me that those who ignore them also have their lives out of balance.

I agree

[LDSNZ]

May I ask you all to approach your bishop and/or stake president and report back on the response you get.

Sounz good.

I ran for US Congress in our congressional district in 2008.

Where did you place in the final count?

& are you going run again? If so you have my vote

And, BTW, this topic has been spoken about recently in a few wards that I am aware of.

That's pretty kool & good to hear!

[LDSNZ]

But I agree that it is vital that we as members encourage our leaders to do what is right & give our support to them by voicing our concerns & opinions as the Spirit directs us to.

Good advice.

That is always helpful & right & IS our responsiblity.

I agree.

What they do after that is on their heads.

Yep.

Thus that's why we should pray for them that they will do the right things & have the Spirit to lead them.

That's right!

[LDSNZ]

I disagree. The scriptures guide us on what to do and never said give up. Church leaders have said previously it will be the work of the elders. I think the main issue is the Samuel Principle in that the members didn't listen when church leaders made the warnings. That does not mean the principle or our responsibility to our understanding of the freedom principles should be as individuals put on the back burner. It also doesn't mean a bishop can't choose to discuss the principles in church.

Bravo, well said.

[lundbaek]

To the question by LDSNZ did I get many votes and will I run again:

I think I came in last. I was a write-in candidate, and many voters wrote my name in wrong. I received more support from the neighboring Congressional District 6 than from my own District 5. And many voters told me they preferred my principles, values, and intentions to all others, but were afraid the Democrat would get elected if they did not vote for the Republican candidate. Some were indignant that I would take away votes from a "good, Republican". The Democrat won anyway.

But my candidacy was a great success in that it afforded me opportunity to awaken many voters, especially LDS voters, to our responsibility to support and defend the US Constitution. That was the only reason I ran in the first place, and it was well worth the expense and effort. And it was an education for me to learn how ignorant LDS voters are of these things.

I am not running again, as I think I accomplished about as much as can be expected in 2008. Ian Gilyeat, an LDS independent candidate with about the same principles, values, and intentions as mine, including strict compliance to the principles of the Founders Constitution, is running for the US Senate against McCain. It would be interesting to know how many LDS voters vote for McCain vs how many vote for Gilyeat.

[LDSNZ]

I think I came in last. I was a write-in candidate, and many voters wrote my name in wrong.

Oh that would've made things difficult for you.

How come you were a write in candidate?

& do you think it would've made much difference if you weren't a write in candidate?

I received more support from the neighboring Congressional District 6 than from my own District 5.

Ok, is there a online map of those districts? If so & if you have the time will please post the links?

And many voters told me they preferred my principles, values, and intentions to all others, but were afraid the Democrat would get elected if they did not vote for the Republican candidate.

Ok.

I think it's still quite sad that the voters were willing to compromise principle just to ensure sure a Republican got in. But didn't.

Some were indignant that I would take away votes from a "good, Republican".

I think that's weird. In my view Lds voters are either for the constitution or for themselves. I guess their actions have spoken (i.e) which side of the fence they're on, unless of cause their chosen candidate stood for upholding the constitution & more?

But my candidacy was a great success in that it afforded me opportunity to awaken many voters, especially LDS voters, to our responsibility to support and defend the US Constitution.

Good on you.

That was the only reason I ran in the first place, and it was well worth the expense and effort.

Awesome. Big Hug.

And it was an education for me to learn how ignorant LDS voters are of these things.

Amen to that. Am also finding this forum quite educational, so thanx to all you bethren & sisters for posting in here!

I am not running again, as I think I accomplished about as much as can be expected in 2008.

Ok.

Ian Gilyeat, an LDS independent candidate with about the same principles, values, and intentions as mine, including strict compliance to the principles of the Founders Constitution, is running for the US Senate against McCain.

Kool, hope Ian wins! Please keep us posted? & by the way when is the Senate elections?

It would be interesting to know how many LDS voters vote for McCain vs how many vote for Gilyeat.

True & god bless!

[lundbaek]

To answer LDSNZ's questions;

I was a write-in candidate because I am a amember of the AZ Constitution Party, which does not have ballot access.

I received votes from 2 adjacent districts because some people don't know what district they live in.

We jsut had the primary elections last week. The November elections will include the winners of the Democrat and Reppublican primary elections plus independent candidates and candidates of other so-called third parties.

Some voters who normally fancy themselves conservative and'or republican are looking more closely at other candidates, and some are even considering voting for the democrat candidate; anythin to get shod of McCain. But most voters I am acquainted with simply do not realize how dangerous McCain really is.

Another thing I am seeing, that I have seen before, is voters refusing to believe certain things about certain candidates even when they are on video and shown on youtube. This is especailly true in the case of Mitt Romney.

[LDSNZ]

which does not have ballot access.

Why not?

We just had the primary elections last week.

Is that the elections you were a candidate in?

The November elections will include the winners of the Democrat and Republican primary elections plus independent candidates and candidates of other so-called third parties.

1. Well hope the Lds's there wake up! & vote for someone that really stands for the constitution! So go Ian!

2. Am sure Ian & you Lds's who've stood as candidates for your various constituencies have considered or have or are visiting each ward in your districts on fast & testimony day to bear witness to:

a. the constitution;

b. the blessing of following counsels of the prophets concerning it;

c. voting good, honest & wise men (also define from a scriptural perspective what wisdon is) to office?

3. Am sure if yous base your testimony around those things & anything else that's helpful?

a. Like both individual & collective fasting! (Let me know if yous decide to do a collective fast? I will join in).

b. Also perhaps if you're supporting Ian? Expounding what he stands for etc.

4. I believe these things can be carefully woven into your testimony without it been too political, as the church itself is apolitical.

5. So if yous decide to do this? Then am sure yous will be more effective if yous did it as a group in each ward, one after another, bang, bang, bang for maximum impact!

6. Assuming yous have the man power, then rotate each group each month till election day.

God bless you brethren & sisters! I pray for your success!

Some voters who normally fancy themselves conservative and or republican are looking more closely at other candidates, and some are even considering voting for the democrat candidate, anything to get shod of McCain.

Oh I see.

But most voters I am acquainted with simply do not realize how dangerous McCain really is.

Yep he's very dangerous.

I recall seeing him on our Prime Time news (last year I think it was), singing mocking lyrics to the tune of the Beach Boys song quote his words: "bomb Iran".

Another thing I am seeing, that I have seen before, is voters refusing to believe certain things about certain candidates even when they are on video and shown on youtube. This is especailly true in the case of Mitt Romney.

True!

[lundbaek]

The Constitution Party in Arizona could not get enough signatures on petitions to gain ballot access, neither in 2008 when I ran for US Congress, not in this year 2010. Many voters who espouse the principles of the Constitution Party are still trying to fix the Republican Party from within thru the Arizona Republican Assembly.

I like your idea of visiting various wards on fast & testimony day to bear witness to our responsibility to the constitution; the blessing of following counsels of the prophets concerning it; and the advisability of voting good, honest & wise men (who clearly espouse the Constitution) to office. I have done that in our ward and one other ward where I was visiting. I am sure that if I did that in our stake I would be repremanded by the stake presidency. If I could even get a couple or a few others to do the same in our stake we would be reprimanded. Our stake president has already recently told me that he does not want this topic introduced in church meetings. I'd be interested to know what others of you forum members think of that idea, and what would come of it.

But I appreciate the suggestion, and I will discuss it with the very few serious LDS constitutionalists I know in the Constitution Party and thru church.

[LDSNZ]

The Constitution Party in Arizona could not get enough signatures on petitions to gain ballot access, neither in 2008 when I ran for US Congress, not in this year 2010. Many voters who espouse the principles of the Constitution Party are still trying to fix the Republican Party from within thru the Arizona Republican Assembly.

Oh I see thanx for sharing that.

I like your idea of visiting various wards on fast & testimony day to bear witness to our responsibility to the constitution; the blessing of following counsels of the prophets concerning it; and the advisability of voting good, honest & wise men (who clearly espouse the Constitution) to office. I have done that in our ward and one other ward where I was visiting.

You're welcome & good on you.

I am sure that if I did that in our stake I would be repremanded by the stake presidency. If I could even get a couple or a few others to do the same in our stake we would be reprimanded. Our stake president has already recently told me that he does not want this topic introduced in church meetings. I'd be interested to know what others of you forum members think of that idea, and what would come of it.

I'm of the firm belief that so long as your testimony bearing is centred around the teachings of the prophets, you can't go wrong!

So if your Stake Presidency decided to reprimand you on those things? Then I blieve he/they would be exercising unrighteous dominion & overstepping his/their boundary(ies)!

But I appreciate the suggestion, and I will discuss it with the very few serious LDS constitutionalists I know in the Constitution Party and thru church.

Awesome.

May the Spirit of the Lord be poured down upon yous concerning this most important & unselfish act of service!

[Amore Vero]

I am sure that if I did that in our stake I would be repremanded by the stake presidency. If I could even get a couple or a few others to do the same in our stake we would be reprimanded. Our stake president has already recently told me that he does not want this topic introduced in church meetings.

My, how the prophesy has come true, that 'good' is considered 'bad' now & 'bad' is considered 'good', even by most members & leaders. Today many are disciplined & looked down on for doing what's right, in regards to political things & many other areas of the Gospel. It's a sad & somber day for the Church.

[lundbaek]

I think I have done about all that one can do to persuade our stake leadership to remind members or make them aware of our responsibility to support constitutional principles in our government. Our stake president told me it is not a timely subject at this time, and that home teaching and reactivation are the important issues now. So that puts the ball in his court. And on this past fast and testimony Sunday I felt prompted specifically to not say anything about our duty to honour the Constitution. The message I got was "Don't say that." I can only conclude that conditions in our stake are such that the freedom issue would only be a distraction from home teaching, reactivation, and temle readiness.

[shadow]

I think I have done about all that one can do to persuade our stake leadership to remind members or make them aware of our responsibility to support constitutional principles in our government. Our stake president told me it is not a timely subject at this time, and that home teaching and reactivation are the important issues now. So that puts the ball in his court. And on this past fast and testimony Sunday I felt prompted specifically to not say anything about our duty to honour the Constitution. The message I got was "Don't say that." I can only conclude that conditions in our stake are such that the freedom issue would only be a distraction from home teaching, reactivation, and temle readiness.

The ball was in your stake presidents court the day he was set apart as stake president. The ball was NEVER in your court. It's interesting to read that the HG gave you the same prompting your stake president has already been obeying . The best thing to do is get behind him and sustain him.
I found it a bit ironic that some of you suggest "ward hopping" on fast Sundays as a way to teach about the "blessings of following counsels of the prophets concerning the constitution". The counsel from the brethren is to not do that. The counsel is to stay in your own ward and let your bishop and stake presidents set the tone in their stewardships. They also recommend people share their testimonies of Christ during testimony meetings.
Pound your key with family, friends, and neighbors on your time. Leave church time to those who have been called and set apart to do that very thing.

[LDSNZ]

I think I have done about all that one can do to persuade our stake leadership to remind members or make them aware of our responsibility to support constitutional principles in our government.

1. Just wondering if there's an appeal process?

1.1 & if these scriptures:

D & C 102:27,31,33 as well as D & C 107:32 might apply to your situation?

Our stake president told me it is not a timely subject at this time,

2. Ok, bearing in mind the prophets have been telling us for years & with all due respect did he indicate when the right time would be?

and that home teaching and reactivation are the important issues now.

3. Yes they are & equally as important is balancing everything up to include the constitution.

So that puts the ball in his court.

4. It sure does!

And on this past fast and testimony Sunday I felt prompted specifically to not say anything about our duty to honour the Constitution. The message I got was "Don't say that."

5. Awesome. Good that you're in tune & followed the prompting.

I can only conclude that conditions in our stake are such that the freedom issue would only be a distraction from home teaching, reactivation, and temple readiness.

6. Ok thankyou for your example of humility & obedience.

7. Ditto 3 & 1.1 above.

God bless!

[LDSNZ]

The best thing to do is get behind him and sustain him.

It most surely is.

The ball was NEVER in your court

I don't recall Lundbaek indicating that it ever was.

I found it a bit ironic that some of you suggest "ward hopping" on fast Sundays as a way to teach about the "blessings of following counsels of the prophets concerning the constitution".

Perceive it as you like, but I personally do not see it the way you do!

The counsel from the brethren is to not do that.

I do not see what has been suggested as Ward Hopping! So I disagree with your perception.

God bless & have a great day!

[lundbaek]

I would not expect any church authority to put a time line or precise conditions on something like when we will start talking about maintaining constitutional principles in government again. As for appealing the stake president's decision, I would only consider even broaching the subject with him in a situation in which I felt good about it. And I sure don't now.

[LDSNZ]

I would not expect any church authority to put a time line or precise conditions on something like when we will start talking about maintaining constitutional principles in government again. As for appealing the stake president's decision, I would only consider even broaching the subject with him in a situation in which I felt good about it. And I sure don't now.

Ok, I respect your decision.

Have a great day!