Unity

[John Adams]

I just can't quit thinking about the importance of unity.

For the most part I don't think I fear the calamities that are coming. However, what I am kind of scared/anxious/worried about is being able to be unified with others as we go through the calamities.

So as far as being unified I think a lot about the following people in my life:

1. True family/friends - A very small group only. I both enjoy being with these people in general, but also I have a huge amount of trust and respect for their faith, their testimony, their knowledge, and their talents. I look forward to working together with these people as the calamities come. I actually wish I could spend more time with these people right now, but there is an underlying trust that allows us to spend our time with our other duties without anyone being offended.

2. Blind faith family/friends - I love these people. I enjoy being around them. I am amazed at their faith. However, they don't want to talk about the “last day events.” They just want to follow the prophet and focus on their faith. I think when the calamities come they will struggle a little, but based on their faith alone I think they will pull through. I sometimes get frustrated that they won't "open their eyes" more and at the same time I probably frustrate them in talking “last days” stuff so much. However, I feel that we can unite as the calamities come, so in the meantime I just hope I don't offend them.

3. Other family/friends - I love these people as well and enjoy being around them during happy times. However they always seem to feel that "All is well in Zion". I worry a lot about these friends. I want to help them awaken, but sometimes I seem to cause more contention as I try to help them see our "awful situation". If they don’t awaken soon I wonder how our relationships will be as difficulties come.

4. Liberals (there’s maybe a better word to use, but hopefully you get my meaning) - I find it hard to converse with these people. I just try to be nice and cordial and pray a lot for them and not be contentious. I just hope that when the calamities come maybe they will awaken in time and I find hope in that the atonement is always available.

5. LDC Forum Members - It's interesting since I don't really know any of you very well as far as your day to day personality. But I am extremely grateful to many of you because I have a place to come and learn in the now, and at the same time based on our similar “awakenings” I think we would unite if we met in the future as the “last day” events unfolded. I feel that somehow we will serve some role in eventually "saving the Constitution" in that future. I am still not sure how all of this will play out, but am excited and feel that we would definitely unite appropriately as needed.

6. Other acquaintances/neighbors/co-workers/home teaching families/ward members/etc. – I just try to be open to the Spirit and just trust in God.

I probably do need to do more in a lot of areas politically (writing my representatives, being a better citizen, better supporting Constitution focused candidates, standing up for what is right, etc.). However, at this time in my life and based on the time constraints I have, I worry most about my “other family & friends.” How do we help them see what’s going on without being preachy and driving them further away and making it difficult to be “united” when we would most need to be?

Thoughts?

P.S. One other person I still worry about as well would be myself. As all of this continues to unfold, I sure hope I can stay true as well. But that’s a whole other issue.

[lundbaek]

Everybody's cerebral computer is wired differently and programmed differently. Makes for quite a job trying to establish unity.

On most of the basic principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ LDSs are well united. Then there are other teachings we are not united on.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

Stress on "most basic," I think even that is wishfull thinking from my experience. I fear many do not even understand what the heck repentance is (http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6931*).

I am still struggling to really and fully understand faith (no one has yet even responded to my faith posts).

*"My present assignment as a General Authority is to assist the First Presidency. I prepare information for them to use in considering applications to readmit transgressors into the Church and to restore priesthood and/or temple blessings. Many times a bishop will write: "I feel he has suffered enough!" But suffering is not repentance. Suffering comes from lack of complete repentance. A stake president will write: "I feel he has been punished enough!" But punishment is not repentance. Punishment follows disobedience and precedes repentance. A husband will write: "My wife has confessed everything!" But confession is not repentance. Confession is an admission of guilt that occurs as repentance begins. A wife will write: "My husband is filled with remorse!" But remorse is not repentance. Remorse and sorrow continue because a person has not yet fully repented. But if suffering, punishment, confession, remorse, and sorrow are not repentance, what is repentance?"

[ChelC]

That's a really cool explanation of repentance. Thanks.

[WhisperFox]

Pitch, I missed the faith posts. Can you post me a link to some of them?

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

One is at the top in the Zion and God's law section.

[John Adams]

I wasn't sure where to post this, but since I think it kind of relates to this "unity" topic I'll put it here.

Has anyone else visited the Roger K. Young site over the past couple of days? There has been an ongoing discussion (sometimes very heated discussion) across multiple threads about President Bush, the Iraq War, the Constitution in the future, the current state of our government, etc.

Anyway, what is so interesting to me is that although the members of the RKY forum are some of the most united people I have ever come across, it was amazing to watch how many different opinions people had on these subjects.

I still think we have a ways to go (me included) in both understanding the principles we discuss daily on this site, and also in helping others to understand them as well.

When it comes to Socialism, pre-emptive wars, un-Constitutional laws, etc. - Satan sure has led us carefully down to . . . . (speaking in general).

I sure hope that if/when a second chance comes we do not go back to old habits.

[Stephen]

My sister in law frequents the RKY forum...and I do this one....and periodically we chat about what the "buzz" is. She keeps me up on foam clothing and visions and what not...and I tell her about the doctrine and current events that are of worth to repeat. I spoke with her yesterday. She said that a spirit of contention has taken over much of the discussions. There are those on that site of our stripe that are mentioning the words of the prophets and are being attacked in derision for blaspheme. She said that several of the posts have been taken off because discussion got too heated. She forwarded some of the discussions and I was disappointed to see a roomful of intellectual children accusing the honest of various things and disregarding the prophets words. They are so embued with their sense of "rightness" they can't see things as they truly are.

One thing that will be painful to bear is when the wheat and tares are separated...many whom we love will ultimately...through disobedience and deception...choose the wrong path. Much like what happened a while back in heaven.

I guess that we have to unify on the things that matter most...and those that can't endure will fall by the wayside. Events will separate us...we will be tried...and I believe...over time...many will come to a knowledge of the truth. Perhaps....as RKY espouses...and I tend to believe could be a likely scenario...we will end up in tent cities....and we can all hang out....and unfold these things to people until they finally wake up to them. Perhaps the great stresses of of calamities...and the separation from the false Idols we worship will be a preparatory measure that will soften the hearts and minds of those decieved and fence sitters...to bring them on the side of Christ. Perhaps...in true Captain Moroni-like fashion the prophet or prophets will rise to draw the line in the sand..."are you in...or are you out".

[John Adams]

My sister in law frequents the RKY forum...and I do this one....and periodically we chat about what the "buzz" is. She keeps me up on foam clothing and visions and what not...and I tell her about the doctrine and current events that are of worth to repeat. I spoke with her yesterday. She said that a spirit of contention has taken over much of the discussions. There are those on that site of our stripe that are mentioning the words of the prophets and are being attacked in derision for blaspheme. She said that several of the posts have been taken off because discussion got too heated. She forwarded some of the discussions and I was disappointed to see a roomful of intellectual children accusing the honest of various things and disregarding the prophets words. They are so embued with their sense of "rightness" they can't see things as they truly are.

Does your sister-in-law use the log-in name of mariecampos? (If so, she's a sharp one.)

Anyway, I hope she e-mailed you some of the conclusions of those discussions as well because I was impressed that after all the initial "arguments" that a few people were able to come to a common understanding. I think there's still hope yet.

To those that are humble and willing to open their hearts, truth usually prevails.

[Stephen]

Why yes!!! The lovely and talented MarieCampos! She is a big part of my team. She is awesome!

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

I really think that you are onto something here. Unity is the way forward. That is one thing that I have enjoyed on this site.

We must learn humility sufficient to accept the doctrine, sufficient to be unified in that doctrine. That is the way forward.

[John Adams]

I wanted to revisit this thread considering many of the new things that have happened over the past 8-9 months.

Ever since I really started studying the Constitutional principles of good government about two to three years ago I have been fascinated about the concept of Track One vs. Track Two along with trying to be united enough with others to live in the now (Track One) while preparing for the future (Track Two).

For those that haven't studied Skousen's "two sets of tracks" concept, basically it says that the current environment we're in where the Constitution is hanging by a thread is "track one" and we still have a responsibility to do what we can in this environment even though we are very far away from the original intent of the Constitution. And then at the same time based on scripture, based on history repeating itself, based on the pride cycle, based on various modern day prophecies, etc. we also know that eventually if the people don't repent en masse there will be a "cleansing" and after that cleansing there needs to be a group of people that can fill the void--track two.

Track two could end up being one of two things: If wicked people came in to fill the void, more than likely we would return to a tyrannical dictatorship. However if there were enough people who were prepared, then a righteous group of people could stand up and choose to return to the original intent of the Constitution and have the opportunity to truly be an "ensign" to all nations. It all would depend on if there were enough "righteous" people ready.

About a year ago I really was to a point that I had given up on track one and was basically waiting and preparing for a "cleansing" so we could move on to track two. Finding this site was great for that because one, it made me extremely grateful for those such as CHH, Lundbaek, Whisperfox, and many others who had been fighting the good fight for so long so I could have a chance to "awake" and prepare myself for what's next. And two, this site gave me hope that there were enough "righteous" people still around and/or awakening to the true principles of "good government" that we really can hope for implementing the good scenario of track two.

Then . . . . . . .

Ron Paul shows up on the scene.

And all of a sudden I started having hope for Track One again. I really started to believe that maybe we could push things off for a little while longer and that maybe the people might repent en masse and get a second chance (another generation could then grow up and go through their own learning process related to the original purposes of why we're on this earth). I found myself wanting to sacrifice in whatever way possible to allow for that "second chance." And again I found this site extremely beneficial in coming up with ideas to "sound the warning voice" and help people repent through returning to Constitutional principles.

Now I don't want to get too pessimistic (ultimately I actually think track two is the most optimistic anyway even with all the "calamities" that might come, because we know how it really ends), but I'm starting to return to my original thinking that we're still really back at the ending point of track one and that the whole Ron Paul Revolution was actually just one last call/awakening for those that are preparing/prepared to take on track two. Ron Paul probably will not win the Presidency. Mitt Romney could win the Presidency and maybe with all his so-called business/management "skills" he might be able to prolong things for a while, but definitely won't make any major changes to return to the Constitution (if someone disagrees please tell me why, because I have yet to hear any good reasons that would make me think otherwise). And personally as I look at the economy I don't see it lasting through the Presidential election anyway without some sort of a miracle (I do admit I have secretly been hoping for a Ron Paul miracle).

So this brings me back to the original topic of the thread--unity.

This forum again has been excellent for both purposes--learning how to fight better in the now and preparing for the future. I would really enjoy hearing anyone's ideas about how "track one" is still viable (Ron Paul miracle, maybe even a Mitt Romney miracle???). But actually I'm really revisiting this thread because I want to return to everyone's thoughts/ideas about "track two."

- Are we collectively (both on this site and also with other principle based "freedom fighters") prepared to take on track two?

- Are we prepared intellectually, spiritually and temporally?

- As things fall apart do we have a way to stay in contact with one another and/or is this necessary?

- Are we both humble enough and united enough for what will need to be accomplished?

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

It is something to work on daily. We all know where we will eventually meet.

I believe we will see each other there.

I believe that we will be prepared to work together.

I believe that we have been blessed to have this time to know each other a little bit before we even see each other face to face.

It will take us all. Our combined preparations, our talents, our abilities, we are the storehouse of things, knowledge, and much much more.

[lundbaek]

A good topic by John Adams, although I am not clear what "track two" entails. The "track one"/"track two" analogy makes me think of Ron Paul as Casey Jones at the throttle of "The Little Engine that Could", although now he's flogging head on toward a heavy freight coming his way also at full throttle, not just a parked wooden caboose, a car load of hay, another of corn, and a car of timber.

[John Adams]

It will take us all. Our combined preparations, our talents, our abilities, we are the storehouse of things, knowledge, and much much more.

I believe this as well that is why I try to be patient with others and am thankful for those who have been patient with me.

Eventually I still believe there will be some sort of separation based on understanding of certain principles (so "It will take all who are willing to live by these principles), but at the same time there must also be a unity based on respect of the various talents that individuals will bring with them. No need to apologize for calling each other out based on principles, but still we need patience enough to allow for others to come up to speed on the principles knowing that even if some of us are slow to learn in certain areas that there are still certain talents that we each bring to the table that will be necessary (while patiently working with one another in living by the principles).

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

A point I want to make is that during the world crisis to come that will make an end of all nations, the wicked and righteous will be separated by a gulf.

There is no one place of safety (Zion) yet, we need the "Upon my house" cleansing first before the Lord sustains us in our righteousness as a body. Until then it is every Zion for itself.

There are micro-places of safety for our individual Zions to wait out the cleansing of a group sufficient to separate out and form a communal Zion.

I personally believe that a cleansing is coming to the church post haste. I believe that after the cleansing that the Rocky Mountains will still be the place ordained to protect the saints until the Savior comes. I call the concept "Zion in the tops of the mountains."

From there a select and chosen (not just called but chosen) group will be ordained to go and redeem Zion New Jerusalem, the center place.

That is my understanding and my preparations are according to that understanding.

Accordingly, track two will be lain in Zion in the tops of the mountains when a gulf separates the wicked and the righteous, when those who do not wish to take up arms will have to flee to Zion, when they come (to the same place as the original handcart pioneers) in like manner with bundles under their arms. There we will be blessed while judgments are poured out on all nations.

Track two and anarchy will co-exist in time but not in (the same) space.

[John Adams]

A good topic by John Adams, although I am not clear what "track two" entails.

Have you had the chance to read The Majesty of God's Law by Dr. Skousen? I was just reading the last few chapters again last night and I think those ideas are the best description of a "track two" option.

[John Adams]

Accordingly, track two will be lain in Zion in the tops of the mountains when a gulf separates the wicked and the righteous, when those who do not wish to take up arms will have to flee to Zion, when they come (to the same place as the original handcart pioneers) in like manner with bundles under their arms. There we will be blessed while judgments are poured out on all nations.

Track two and anarchy will co-exist in time but not in (the same) space.

Excellent summary. I need to log off for now, but I hope to continue this thread/conversation later.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

It reminds me once again of the dramatized church history tape on the last days where a ward joins together to head for Utah "where there's still good government." My M-I-L seems to have misplaced her tapes, does anybody else have that tape? They get close and a helicopter with a beehive on it comes out to meet them.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

I liken it to Bountiful and Zarahemla to a certain extent.

We were told by a GA that those of us that are here are called here to be pioneers. And were told what we would do for those that come later.

I think that there will be much that goes on at two locations at the same time.

And upon my house begins with this year..... There are some high up places that will start to tumble...

I just wonder about the desolating illness.... And if that is from fallout.

[ithink]

For those that haven't studied Skousen's "two sets of tracks" concept, basically it says that the current environment we're in where the Constitution is hanging by a thread is "track one" and we still have a responsibility to do what we can in this environment even though we are very far away from the original intent of the Constitution. And then at the same time based on scripture, based on history repeating itself, based on the pride cycle, based on various modern day prophecies, etc. we also know that eventually if the people don't repent en masse there will be a "cleansing" and after that cleansing there needs to be a group of people that can fill the void--track two.

Speaking of track 1 and track 2: I've been asked to run for federal office by an established and well led but lesser known Federal Party here in Canada to help derail the globalists. It's a chance to fix track 1, certainly a chance to set up for track 2.

It's a tough decision. The office I would be after is similar to your Congress. You've seen my posts, some of what I think. No guarantee of winning of course.

What would you do?

ithink

[BroJones]

John, I appreciate and share your concern about family and friends not willing to get out of the attitude/trap "all is well in America and don't tell

1, I accept the bk of Mormon for my guide, along with other scriptures. In Helaman, shortly before the coming of Christ, there were both Gadiantons in the wilderness and Gadiantons in "management of the government" (Helaman 6:23) Nephi had a very hard time opening the eyes of even the righteous Nephites to the fact of Gadiantons IN the gov''t, although he brought forth strong evidences and warnings about what would happen if they did not wake up. Then in Helaman 11 a great Depression DID come, and that is when the people as a group finally AWAKENED to their awful situation and did something about it. This -- for our day -- ought at least to open our eyes to the possibility of both external and internal Gadiantons as we approach the coming of the Savior.

2. Next we find Pres. Hinckley and others referring to the Gadiantons who put "burdensome taxes" on the people and led them into "terrible wars" while at the same time saying the Bk of Mormon "reads like the morning newspaper." (See Pres. Hinckley's message in the Ensign, Aug. 2005) Then in the April 2006 conference, Pres. Hinckley said "WE ARE INVOLVED IN TERRIBLE WARS..." I recalled what he had said in the Ensign about Gadiantons leading the people into "terrible wars" -- when he asked us all to read the Bk of Mormon the previous year -- gave me goosebumps.

3. Then, with a Book of Mormon context and foundation, we open our eyes to consider the evidence, please.
Who is putting on us "burdensome taxes" AND leading us into "terrible wars"?
Who has signed the North American Union agreement? Why was this done without informing the public or getting the approval of Congress?
Who is allowing the illegal immigration to go on and on, and why?
Who is pushing for LOST, the Law of the Sea Treaty (which would give the UN taxation power)?

Who said the dust from the World Trade Center collapses was safe and New Yorkers should go back to Wall Street etc, when scientists had previously warned it was highly toxic? (Now thousands are very ill from the dust, and dying...)
Who knew about the plane coming towards the Pentagon when there was still plenty of time to do something about it and save lives? -- but did nothing except to say "The orders still stand."

Who has increased the national debt by over 50% in seven years in office? -- to over 9 TRILLION dollars. Who said "Deficits don't matter" ?
Can you see how enormous and growing DEBTS cannot be sustained? Can you see how our economy is now on the rocks?
What did the prophets say about getting out of debt? -- have we as a nation followed this counsel?

With non-LDS and some, you might start with some of the points in #3. My $0.02.

Unity is a great goal. As Truth makes us Free, it also leads to Unity.

[BroJones]

John, I appreciate and share your concern about family and friends not willing to get out of the attitude/trap "all is well in America and don't tell
me anything different".
Here are a few ideas for talking to people, that I have used variations of --

1. In Helaman, shortly before the coming of Christ, there were both Gadiantons in the wilderness and Gadiantons in "management of the government" (Helaman 6:23) Nephi had a very hard time opening the eyes of even the righteous Nephites to the fact of Gadiantons IN the gov''t, although he brought forth strong evidences and warnings about what would happen if they did not wake up. Then in Helaman 11 a great Depression DID come, and that is when the people as a group finally AWAKENED to their awful situation and did something about it. This -- for our day -- ought at least to open our eyes to the possibility of both external and internal Gadiantons as we approach the coming of the Savior.

2. Next we find Pres. Hinckley and others referring to the Gadiantons who put "burdensome taxes" on the people and led them into "terrible wars" while at the same time saying the Bk of Mormon "reads like the morning newspaper." (See Pres. Hinckley's message in the Ensign, Aug. 2005) Then in the April 2006 conference, Pres. Hinckley said "WE ARE INVOLVED IN TERRIBLE WARS..." I recalled what he had said in the Ensign about Gadiantons leading the people into "terrible wars" -- when he asked us all to read the Bk of Mormon the previous year -- gave me goosebumps.

3. Then, with a Book of Mormon context and foundation, we open our eyes to consider the evidence...
Who is putting on us "burdensome taxes" AND leading us into "terrible wars"?
Who has signed the North American Union agreement? Why was this done without informing the public or getting the approval of Congress?
Who is allowing the illegal immigration to go on and on, and why?
Who is pushing for LOST, the Law of the Sea Treaty (which would give the UN taxation power)?

Who said the dust from the World Trade Center collapses was safe and New Yorkers should go back to Wall Street etc, when scientists had previously warned it was highly toxic? (Now thousands are very ill from the dust, and dying...)
Who knew about the plane coming towards the Pentagon when there was still plenty of time to do something about it and save lives? -- but did nothing except to say "The orders still stand."

Who has increased the national debt by over 50% in seven years in office? -- to over 9 TRILLION dollars. Who said "Deficits don't matter" ?
Can you see how enormous and growing DEBTS cannot be sustained? Can you see how our economy is now on the rocks?
What did the prophets say about getting out of debt? -- have we as a nation followed this counsel?

With non-LDS and some, you might start with some of the points in #3. My $0.02.

Unity is a great goal. As Truth makes us Free, it also leads to Unity.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

The possibility of Internal in both governments suddenly jumped out at me...

so I thought I would mention it.

[BroJones]

"The possibility of Internal in both governments suddenly jumped out at me..."

Which two governments are you referring to, LC?