WHY?

[Elizabeth]

:-\
Why were cockroaches, flies, spiders, snakes created ?

Why should a living creation suffer and die and be eaten to sustain another?

[Silver]

More importantly, why is this thread in the Principles of Liberty forum?

[Elizabeth]

Because, the Principles of Liberty forum is for:
"Discussion of principles relating to God's Law, Agency, Freedom..."

More importantly, why is this thread in the Principles of Liberty forum?

[Matchmaker]

:-\
Why were cockroaches, flies, spiders, snakes created ?

Why should a living creation suffer and die and be eaten to sustain another?

I'm thinking it was to torment man, like the weeds in my garden, and so he will desire to repent of his sins and not be satisfied to live in a telestial world for eternity.

[Robin Hood]

Maybe we're here to torment the cockroaches and spiders.

[gclayjr]

Elizabeth,

You might ask why this world is a TELESTIAL world. However, If there were no spiders we would be overrun with flies and other insects. If there were no flies the garbage wouldn't decay as well, and frogs and toads wouldn't have anything to eat. and if there were no snakes, then there would be too many toads and frogs.

And if there were no Byrds, we might not know that Turn, Turn, Turn thing that explains it all.


Regards,

George Clay

[David13]

Maybe we're here to torment the cockroaches and spiders.

Or to squish them.
dc

[Elizabeth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_M5Zdn4

Elizabeth,
And if there were no Byrds, we might not know that Turn, Turn, Turn thing that explains it all.
Regards,

George Clay

[Alaris]

I used to hope that we would leave black widows behind with the telestial sphere when the world is moved to a terrestrial sphere. However, since these creepy and crawlies were created (per the temple video) along with the earth in a higher sphere, then I'm not holding my breath. Pet wolves and lions sound fun .. but black widows? Egh.

[Elizabeth]

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/eccl?lang=eng

1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

9 What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboureth?

10 I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.

11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

12 I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life.

13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.

14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

16 ¶ And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.

17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_M5Zdn4

To everything (turn, turn, turn)
There is a season (turn, turn, turn)
And a time to every purpose, under heaven

A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep

To everything (turn, turn, turn)
There is a season (turn, turn, turn)
And a time to every purpose, under heaven

A time to build up, a time to break down
A time to dance, a time to mourn
A time to cast away stones, a time to gather stones together

To everything (turn, turn, turn)
There is a season (turn, turn, turn)
And a time to every purpose, under heaven

A time of love, a time of hate
A time of war, a time of peace
A time you may embrace, a time to refrain from embracing

To everything (turn, turn, turn)
There is a season (turn, turn, turn)
And a time to every purpose, under heaven

A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time for love, a time for hate
A time for peace, I swear it's not too late

George Aber and Pete Seeger adaption From The Book Of Ecclesiastes.

Elizabeth,
And if there were no Byrds, we might not know that Turn, Turn, Turn thing that explains it all.
Regards,

George Clay

[oneClimbs]

:-\
Why were cockroaches, flies, spiders, snakes created ?

Why should a living creation suffer and die and be eaten to sustain another?

Technically every living thing is eaten by something else, "protein is never wasted when a death occurs." I think that the more apropos question would by why something would need to kill to something else to sustain itself. Perhaps the answer to that question is related to another: Why must the only sinless person suffer and die for sins of everyone?

[David13]

:-\
Why were cockroaches, flies, spiders, snakes created ?

Why should a living creation suffer and die and be eaten to sustain another?

Technically every living thing is eaten by something else, "protein is never wasted when a death occurs." I think that the more apropos question would by why something would need to kill to something else to sustain itself. Perhaps the answer to that question is related to another: Why must the only sinless person suffer and die for sins of everyone?

"Why must the only sinless person suffer and die for sins of everyone?"

Because, Stev3, because, that's why. Just because, ok?


"I think that the more apropos question would by why something would need to kill to something else to sustain itself."

Because they are predators, that's why. Some are vultures, and so they wait for something to die before they eat it. But then they eat something old, and rotten and diseased.*

All the rest of us are predators, including vegetarians. They kill and eat things like tomatoes. That kills the tomato.

The most honest way to eat meat ... is hunting, stalking and killing, and cleaning and processing it. Then eating it.

And it tastes better that way.


*Except for that one vulture, sitting on the fence, who gets tired of sitting there and waiting, and says "patience my a**, I'm going out and killing something."
dc

[JohnnyL]

I used to hope that we would leave black widows behind with the telestial sphere when the world is moved to a terrestrial sphere. However, since these creepy and crawlies were created (per the temple video) along with the earth in a higher sphere, then I'm not holding my breath. Pet wolves and lions sound fun .. but black widows? Egh.

When I could choose between playing with a dog or black widows, I always chose the latter.

[JohnnyL]

:-\
Why were cockroaches, flies, spiders, snakes created ?

Technically every living thing is eaten by something else, "protein is never wasted when a death occurs." I think that the more apropos question would by why something would need to kill to something else to sustain itself. Perhaps the answer to that question is related to another: Why must the only sinless person suffer and die for sins of everyone?

"Why must the only sinless person suffer and die for sins of everyone?"
Because, Stev3, because, that's why. Just because, ok?

"I think that the more apropos question would by why something would need to kill to something else to sustain itself."
Because they are predators, that's why. Some are vultures, and so they wait for something to die before they eat it. But then they eat something old, and rotten and diseased.*
All the rest of us are predators, including vegetarians. They kill and eat things like tomatoes. That kills the tomato.
The most honest way to eat meat ... is hunting, stalking and killing, and cleaning and processing it. Then eating it.
And it tastes better that way.

*Except for that one vulture, sitting on the fence, who gets tired of sitting there and waiting, and says "patience my a**, I'm going out and killing something."
dc

Killing a tomato is not really killing--the plant lives and lost something it was going to lose anyway.

One of my dream professions is a cockroach researcher.

[BeNotDeceived]

Why were ..., ..., ... snakes created ?

Ever wonder if dinosaurs are snakes before they lost their legs? @-)

[jbalm]

Maybe because the world doesn't work the way you think it does.

[David13]

:-\
Why were cockroaches, flies, spiders, snakes created ?

Technically every living thing is eaten by something else, "protein is never wasted when a death occurs." I think that the more apropos question would by why something would need to kill to something else to sustain itself. Perhaps the answer to that question is related to another: Why must the only sinless person suffer and die for sins of everyone?

"Why must the only sinless person suffer and die for sins of everyone?"
Because, Stev3, because, that's why. Just because, ok?

"I think that the more apropos question would by why something would need to kill to something else to sustain itself."
Because they are predators, that's why. Some are vultures, and so they wait for something to die before they eat it. But then they eat something old, and rotten and diseased.*
All the rest of us are predators, including vegetarians. They kill and eat things like tomatoes. That kills the tomato.
The most honest way to eat meat ... is hunting, stalking and killing, and cleaning and processing it. Then eating it.
And it tastes better that way.

*Except for that one vulture, sitting on the fence, who gets tired of sitting there and waiting, and says "patience my a**, I'm going out and killing something."
dc

Killing a tomato is not really killing--the plant lives and lost something it was going to lose anyway.

One of my dream professions is a cockroach researcher.

Well, the tomato is the seed carrier for the plant, isn't it? If the seeds are spread, the plant will replicate, won't it? So, it's like giving the plant an abortion, sort of.
I don't eat eggs. Eating those is like giving the chicken an abortion.
Any animal you eat would ultimately loose it's life, so ...
dc

[davedan]

Under the Father and Christ's direction, the human family participated in creation. This includes the nobel and great ones and the not-so-nobel.

However, all things serve a purpose. God did need to create an oasis of the Garden for Adam and Eve amongst a violent world. Adam amd Eve were tasked with "keeping" the garden.

However, with the fall, Adam and Eve were cast out. The garden was not preserved, and they were then exposed/subjected to the thorns, briars, weeds, random violence and unfeeling cruelty of the universe-- for their good.

So the creations/works of the nobel and the less-nobel all serve Gods greater purposes and human-kinds greater good.

[lundbaek]

I think all creatures great and small fit into the ecology of our world in some way.

[oneClimbs]

All the rest of us are predators, including vegetarians. They kill and eat things like tomatoes. That kills the tomato.

Technically, the tomato is the fruit of a plant, you aren't killing the actual plant. Fruit is intended to be eaten. The seeds go through the digestive process and come out as dung with the seeds wrapped in a convenient fertilizer and ready to make a new plant. It's actually part of the plant's reproductive process, that's why fruit is tasty, they want it to be eaten, plus the flowers before the fruit attract bees which help the pollination process as well. Something gets it's life sustained and something else gets to spread it's posterity so it's a true win/win.

[oneClimbs]

I don't eat eggs. Eating those is like giving the chicken an abortion.

Not exactly an abortion, both human women and chickens pass unfertilized eggs, so with an egg what you are actually eating is closer to chicken menstruation. Eating balut (boiled duck embryo), however would be akin to an abortion.

[Teancum]

Why are there bugs and microbes, thorns and stickers, slivers and pimples? Why are there bears, lions and even a T Rex? Why is there an electron, and atom, a molecule, a planet, a solar system, a galaxy and a universe? Why is there a need for all things to pass away, and all things to become new? Why are there supermodels, super athletes, chess masters and rocket scientists, good samaritans and anonymous donors? Why are there great and small? Why is there health and sickness? Why is there light and darkness?

Why must there needs be opposition in ALL things?


So your question really boils down to 'why was mankind not created as complete and perfect Gods in the first place?'


This is my understanding, because in God the Father's infinite wisdom, and love, his plan for his children to become like him included life, death, the strong overcomming the weak, growth, decay, achievement, failure and most importantly redemption and exaltation. How could there be full joy without the knowledge and memory of pain and incompleteness? How could we know exhiliration at the resurrection, if we didn't have death? How could we know what it is like to be good if we didn't have experiences with the devil?

Trust God that he knows what he is doing.

These very questions are what the war in heaven was about and it continues today. Opposition in all things. Fractal design from subatomic to galactic. infinite differences in people and things. The great differences between light and dark, love and hate, good and evil.

Trust and Love God. He's got ya covered.

Oh, and try to cut those bugs and spiders a little slack before you squish em, they might not have understood the rules of not being in the house.

[butterfly]

:-\
Why were cockroaches, flies, spiders, snakes created ?

I really like the Hymn "All Creatures of our God and King", written by St. Francis of Assisi. Stories say that St. Francis was able to communicate with animals. I always thought that was pretty cool. A few years ago, I started to be able to understand (on occasion) what animals and plants were saying, too. It just sort of happened one day out of nowhere.

So one of the creatures that I have come to love is the wasp. I was walking outside with sandals on and somehow this red wasp got stuck in-between the sole of my foot and my sandal. I didn't realize it and so the next step I took, I got stung in the sole of my foot.
I felt confused, trying to figure out where the pain had come from when all of a sudden I "went into" the wasp. What I mean is that I was able to know and feel and understand everything that the wasp was feeling and understanding, as if I were the wasp.

The wasp was really scared, it was the kind of feeling that a child has who is afraid of the dark. He was trying to get away, he didn't know what had happened, he certainly didn't mean to sting me. He just wanted to feel safe, he was so confused and startled.
I felt such empathy for the poor little guy that I gave him his space to fly away and then I went inside to doctor my foot.

I couldn't be upset with the wasp because I now "knew" the wasp and I knew that he was completely innocent. I had no desire for that wasp to be killed. We had a similar experience with a snake we found in our basement and other creatures that I've talked with, too.

My point is - all of these creatures that I've met are much more like children in their innocence,
their resort to instinct, and their desires. I have yet to meet any that were deceptive or malicious, and that includes spiders and creepy crawlies and things that we generally think it is justifiable to kill. Plants and trees are very kind and loving. Tomatoes were mentioned on this thread - fruits and vegetables want us to eat them and they are happy to become a living part of us.

This sounds so crazy but I had an eggplant get upset with me when I accidentally burned it in the oven. The reason it was upset was because I killed it's vitamins and minerals - it felt that it was no longer good for anything because it was now no longer nourishing. Fruits and vegetable prefer to be eaten raw because then they remain alive within us and can perpetuate our lives. When we denature food, process it, cook it to death, etc, we are preventing the food from fulfilling the measure of its creation.

These kinds of experiences have also given me a better understanding of the atonement and when the scriptures talk about the Savior taking upon Himself our pains and our afflictions. He literally feels and understands everything that we feel and understand, just like I did with the wasp. This "being one" with another creature or person makes it so much easier to love and forgive because you comprehend 100% another person's situation from their eyes and with their emotions; you just can't blame them after you understand them.

[sushi_chef]

-
are there any animal comminicators among mormons??
:-B

[harakim]

:-\
Why were cockroaches, flies, spiders, snakes created ?

Why should a living creation suffer and die and be eaten to sustain another?

Because existence is worth experiencing even in its less victorious forms.