Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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"...These liberals want you to know how much they are doing for you – with your tax money of course. But they don’t want you to realize that the path they are pursuing is socialistic, and that socialism is the same as communism in its ultimate effect on our liberties. When you point this out they want to shut you up – they accuse you of maligning them, of casting asper-sions, of being political. No matter whether they label their bottle as liberalism, progressivism, or social reform – I know the contents of the bottle is poison to this Republic and I’m going to call it poison...."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUcamqCgNsk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unfortunately this applies very much to both the Democrats and the Republicans - they've all accepted, supported and implemented varying levels of socialism.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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BrianM wrote:socialism is the same as communism in its ultimate effect on our liberties...
Socialism is not the same as Communism. Even the communists state that socialism is a stepping stone on the way to communism.
And Social Democracy is not socialism.

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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Robin Hood wrote:
BrianM wrote:socialism is the same as communism in its ultimate effect on our liberties...
Socialism is not the same as Communism. Even the communists state that socialism is a stepping stone on the way to communism.
And Social Democracy is not socialism.
You miss the point.
dc

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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Ezra Taft Benson wrote:"But they don’t want you to realize that the path they are pursuing is socialistic..."
That was true when he said it, but it's not true today. Today, they happily tell you they are socialists, they feel virtuous about it. They voted for Bernie, who bills himself a socialist. They voted for Obama, an avowed Marxist. And then they voted for the criminal Hillary, which leaves me without words. And when I say "they", I'm referring to the LDS people I know. :-o

Sadly, most of the people in my ward voted for Hillary on Tuesday, and as of Wednesday morning, we have a ward-wide depression going on. @-)

Excellent, and true, quote though. Thank you for posting it.

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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EmmaLee wrote:
Ezra Taft Benson wrote:"But they don’t want you to realize that the path they are pursuing is socialistic..."
That was true when he said it, but it's not true today. Today, they happily tell you they are socialists, they feel virtuous about it. They voted for Bernie, who bills himself a socialist. They voted for Obama, an avowed Marxist. And then they voted for the criminal Hillary, which leaves me without words. And when I say "they", I'm referring to the LDS people I know. :-o

Sadly, most of the people in my ward voted for Hillary on Tuesday, and as of Wednesday morning, we have a ward-wide depression going on. @-)

Excellent, and true, quote though. Thank you for posting it.
Just a thought. Perhaps the ominous upon my house shall it begin applies to those Saints who disregard the constitutional mandate they have been given and openly accept false ideologies that bring about bondage and enslavement. Communist and socialist systems eventually crumble and bring in a strong man to rule over the people. Rights then are dictated by that strong man and the pain begins. You reap what you sow..

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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EmmaLee wrote:
Ezra Taft Benson wrote:"But they don’t want you to realize that the path they are pursuing is socialistic..."
That was true when he said it, but it's not true today. Today, they happily tell you they are socialists, they feel virtuous about it. They voted for Bernie, who bills himself a socialist. ...
Yes the Democrats are now more openly socialist. That statement is more true of today's Republicans - many want you to think they are conservatives or constitutionalists and yet they promote a lot of socialism.

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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When we strip it all down it seems to me that the church welfare system is based on the same principles as socialism - to each according to his need, from each according to his ability.
Am I missing something here?

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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Robin Hood wrote:When we strip it all down it seems to me that the church welfare system is based on the same principles as socialism - to each according to his need, from each according to his ability.
Am I missing something here?
The element of force is a big one. Plus the "proper role of government" should be considered.

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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Mark wrote:
EmmaLee wrote:
Ezra Taft Benson wrote:"But they don’t want you to realize that the path they are pursuing is socialistic..."
That was true when he said it, but it's not true today. Today, they happily tell you they are socialists, they feel virtuous about it. They voted for Bernie, who bills himself a socialist. They voted for Obama, an avowed Marxist. And then they voted for the criminal Hillary, which leaves me without words. And when I say "they", I'm referring to the LDS people I know. :-o

Sadly, most of the people in my ward voted for Hillary on Tuesday, and as of Wednesday morning, we have a ward-wide depression going on. @-)

Excellent, and true, quote though. Thank you for posting it.
Just a thought. Perhaps the ominous upon my house shall it begin applies to those Saints who disregard the constitutional mandate they have been given and openly accept false ideologies that bring about bondage and enslavement. Communist and socialist systems eventually crumble and bring in a strong man to rule over the people. Rights then are dictated by that strong man and the pain begins. You reap what you sow..
What about groping, where does that fit in? Speech by a strong man (Trump) has certainly started the pain. There are consequences from elections, as Obama said when he was elected. Isn't it amazing that the Electoral College was set up, is that constitutional? Popular vote would have given us Al Gore and Hillary Clinton.

I'm happy for Hillary, she can take hikes now.

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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BrianM wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:When we strip it all down it seems to me that the church welfare system is based on the same principles as socialism - to each according to his need, from each according to his ability.
Am I missing something here?
The element of force is a big one. Plus the "proper role of government" should be considered.
Is it not the case that the proper role of government should be what the people/voters decide it should be?
Is there an absolute truth or standard when it comes to the role of government, or is it up to the people to decide what role they want their government to play?
Surely people are free to choose their government, and if they choose one that is more socialistic than another and they do so freely, then the proper role for that government is to discharge it's mandate as it is directed.

The reason I say this is because I cannot think of a single functioning government in the western world that is socialist in the sense that you appear to imply.

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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Robin Hood wrote:When we strip it all down it seems to me that the church welfare system is based on the same principles as socialism - to each according to his need, from each according to his ability.
Am I missing something here?
Here's a great article I read a couple years ago about "Socialism and the United Order Compared".
http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1476" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Comparisons and contrasts: Similarities

The following are similarities: Both (1) deal with production and distribution of goods; (2) aim to promote the well-being of men by eliminating their economic inequalities; (3) envision the elimination of the selfish motives in our private capitalistic industrial system.

Differences

Now the differences:

(1) The cornerstone of the United Order is belief in God and acceptance of him as Lord of the earth and the author of the United Order.

Socialism, wholly materialistic, is founded in the wisdom of men and not of God. Although all socialists may not be atheists, none of them in theory or practice seek the Lord to establish his righteousness (D&C 1:16).

(2) The United Order is implemented by the voluntary free-will actions of men, evidenced by a consecration of all their property to the Church of God.

One time the Prophet Joseph Smith asked a question by the brethren about the inventories they were taking. His answer was to the effect, "You don't need to be concerned about the inventories. Unless a man is willing to consecrate everything he has, he doesn't come into the United Order." (Documentary History of the Church, Vol. 7, pp. 412-13.) On the other hand, socialism is implemented by external force, the power of the state.

(3) In harmony with church belief, as set forth in the Doctrine and Covenants, "that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property" (D&C 134:2), the United Order is operated upon the principle of private ownership and individual management.

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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Robin Hood,
When we strip it all down it seems to me that the church welfare system is based on the same principles as socialism - to each according to his need, from each according to his ability.
Am I missing something here?
As one who has been a financial clerk for decades, I can say you are missing several somethings. Socialism tries to "equalize" things. If you are not hungry, and someone else is filthy rich, socialists see an evil to be corrected. This is not the case of Church welfare. Church welfare helps people who are struggling for one reason or another to get on their feet, if possible (There are special cases for those who are aged or otherwise medically unable to provide for themselves). A bishop will often "invent" work so that a person in need can do something for the assistance they are receiving. A large part of a bishop's job is in instructing needy members as to how to adjust their life so that they can live within their means

And I suppose I don't have to repeat the obvious... no force, or taxation is used to extract revenue from anybody.

Is it not the case that the proper role of government should be what the people/voters decide it should be?
Is there an absolute truth or standard when it comes to the role of government, or is it up to the people to decide what role they want their government to play?
I guess this is understandable from someone who has never lived under a Constitution. It is often said that Democratic Socialists believe in democracy, in that everybody has the right to vote...once.. but after the freedom has been tricked...errr voted out, then the people must live for all time with the foolishness of their vote....I'm sure that the Socialists in Britain, did not think that you all should have had the opportunity to vote for the Breixit, as this is a rare exception to this rule....not all Europeans will be given such an opportunity.

Back to a Constitution. It was understood, that fads could lead evil to be popular. A constitution is an agreed upon limit to what could ever happen, even if popular. Just because it might be popular, should it be legal to kill anybody wearing green tights and trespassing on the Kings forest, even if he is stealing game, to give to the poor?

We agree, in advance that, whether popular or not, there are things we agree that the government cannot do, particularly in the area of taking freedoms from individuals who are not popular with the majority. Our declaration of Independence (from Britain...if you remember).. states that there are Inalienable rights given to us by GOD, and that no matter how popular the government, it cannot take away rights given to us by God.

Regards,

George Clay

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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Actually George I do live under a constitution, it's just not written down in one place.
As Gordon B. Hinckley said (and I paraphrase)"the British constitution is the most subtle organism ever developed by the intellect of man for the benefit of mankind".

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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gclayjr wrote:Robin Hood,
When we strip it all down it seems to me that the church welfare system is based on the same principles as socialism - to each according to his need, from each according to his ability.
Am I missing something here?
As one who has been a financial clerk for decades, I can say you are missing several somethings. Socialism tries to "equalize" things. If you are not hungry, and someone else is filthy rich, socialists see an evil to be corrected. This is not the case of Church welfare. Church welfare helps people who are struggling for one reason or another to get on their feet, if possible (There are special cases for those who are aged or otherwise medically unable to provide for themselves). A bishop will often "invent" work so that a person in need can do something for the assistance they are receiving. A large part of a bishop's job is in instructing needy members as to how to adjust their life so that they can live within their means

And I suppose I don't have to repeat the obvious... no force, or taxation is used to extract revenue from anybody.

Is it not the case that the proper role of government should be what the people/voters decide it should be?
Is there an absolute truth or standard when it comes to the role of government, or is it up to the people to decide what role they want their government to play?
I guess this is understandable from someone who has never lived under a Constitution. It is often said that Democratic Socialists believe in democracy, in that everybody has the right to vote...once.. but after the freedom has been tricked...errr voted out, then the people must live for all time with the foolishness of their vote....I'm sure that the Socialists in Britain, did not think that you all should have had the opportunity to vote for the Breixit, as this is a rare exception to this rule....not all Europeans will be given such an opportunity.

Back to a Constitution. It was understood, that fads could lead evil to be popular. A constitution is an agreed upon limit to what could ever happen, even if popular. Just because it might be popular, should it be legal to kill anybody wearing green tights and trespassing on the Kings forest, even if he is stealing game, to give to the poor?

We agree, in advance that, whether popular or not, there are things we agree that the government cannot do, particularly in the area of taking freedoms from individuals who are not popular with the majority. Our declaration of Independence (from Britain...if you remember).. states that there are Inalienable rights given to us by GOD, and that no matter how popular the government, it cannot take away rights given to us by God.

Regards,

George Clay
Not getting a temple recommend because you don't pay tithing, or keep the Word of Wisdom. Is that force?

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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rewcox wrote:

Not getting a temple recommend because you don't pay tithing, or keep the Word of Wisdom. Is that force?
How is it force?

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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rewcox wrote:

Not getting a temple recommend because you don't pay tithing, or keep the Word of Wisdom. Is that force?

No it isn't. Come on, you can do better than that.
dc

That is somewhat akin to saying "they are Commandments, aren't they, so that is force, isn't it?"

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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Robin Hood wrote:When we strip it all down it seems to me that the church welfare system is based on the same principles as socialism - to each according to his need, from each according to his ability.
Am I missing something here?
Yes, the church basically teaches that the government of God is a form of theocratic socialism, specifically Theodemocracy. According to Joseph Smith, it will be the type of government on the earth during the millennium. It includes elements of the United Order where everyone has sufficient needs and excess is redistributed. The welfare system isn't exactly like this now, but will be 'upgraded' at some point in the future from a democratic socialist system to a theocratic socialist system. The church currently want peoples on welfare to do everything they can to become self-sufficient and many people already donate some of their excess to the church via the tithing slip.

It's possible in the future that during the millennium, certain basic needs such as good food, clothing and housing will be provided to all the inhabitants.
Working would be similar to church callings, each providing services for the benefit of others based on their knowledge, experience, talents and abilities rather than personal monetary gain.

Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism are vastly different political systems than democratic socialism and theocratic socialism.
Last edited by Sunain on November 12th, 2016, 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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...since all capitalistic systems are founded upon the institution of private property, inheritance and the profit motive, great inequalities of ownership and income inevitably result. ...Among the more plausible suggestions offered to correct existing abuses without adversely affecting the productive system, is to continue the socialization of our service institutions through a system of progressive taxation based upon ability to pay...taking the bulk of their [captains of industry] profits to finance free education, free libraries, free public parks and recreation centers, unemployment insurance, old age benefits, sickness and accident insurance, and perhaps eventually FREE MEDICAL AND HOSPITAL SERVICE (Emphasis mine). ...The average family may not have much more money, if any, to spend under such a system than now. But...then the meagre (sic) family income can be devoted entirely to the necessities of life, plus some of the comforts now enjoyed by the higher income classes. ...To finance all of this, of course, will necessitate huge sums of money. ...And it will also require a carefully worked out tax system so that every one will contribute according to his financial ability. Inheritance and estate taxes will become progressively higher, until the present system of permitting large fortunes to be passed on from generation to generation will become extinct. And incidentally, the so-called idle rich who have been living on the earnings of past generations will be no more.

(- Priesthood and Church Welfare; A Study Course for the Quorums of the Melchizedek Priesthood for the year 1939 - prepared under the direction of the Council of the Twelve, pages 88-89 )

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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Robin Hood wrote:
Robin Hood wrote: When we strip it all down it seems to me that the church welfare system is based on the same principles as socialism - to each according to his need, from each according to his ability. Am I missing something here?
YES, Socialism/Communism is Satan's counterfeit to the Lords Plan. It may look and sound appealing but what else is to be expected from the Father of LIES.


Is it not the case that the proper role of government should be what the people/voters decide it should be?
NO, IMO our Gov't has been established. It was accomplished with Divine help through a Constitution. This is our standard, not something that changes with the whim of the people

Is there an absolute truth or standard when it comes to the role of government, or is it up to the people to decide what role they want their government to play? The Constitution is the Standard, at least for the USA

Surely people are free to choose their government, and if they choose one that is more socialistic than another and they do so freely, then the proper role for that government is to discharge it's mandate as it is directed.
Then amend the Constitution, which is a very high thresh-hold and very difficult to to accomplish.

The reason I say this is because I cannot think of a single functioning government in the western world that is socialist in the sense that you appear to imply.
Each Government has varying degrees of evil, distraction, selfishness and apathy. That's today's attitude......give me, give me, give me...it's my right! It is truly pathetic.
In my lifetime I have seen a steady erosion of the attitude and principles of this country.
Little by little we are becoming a weak and selfish society.
It started with Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Food Stamps and now it's even phones. Weaker and weaker we become with each new "freebie"
It is not the Governments role nor responsibility to care for us, to provide for us, to keep us safe from ourselves.
Having a knowledge of the Gospel is such a privilege and responsibility. We know why we are on this earth and where we go after this life.
With that said how many spend every day worrying about things that have no lasting value? We each have become trapped in the distractions of this world. Chasing mammon! We as a people do not live with an eye single to the glory of God, we worry more about things that do not matter.

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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A lot of assertions and speculations, and a cute copy of pages from an old manual, but maybe it is better to go to the sources to get the truth rather than to fantasize your political wishes into your own interpretation of what the law of consecration is or will be (In my post I was responding to what the Welfare system is compared to socialism, which now has been diverted to what it will be like under some of your beliefs of about the law of consecration... nice pivot to ignore the falseness of your original assertions, but OK, you actually haven't improved much by dodging the issue

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and ... p?lang=eng
They had all things common.” The phrase “they had all things common” (Acts 4:32; see also Acts 2:44; 3 Nephi 26:19; 4 Nephi 1:3) is used to characterize those who lived the law of consecration in ancient times. Some have speculated that the term common suggests a type of communalism or “Christian Communism.” This interpretation is in error. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught the true nature of having all things common: “I preached on the stand about one hour on the 2nd chapter of Acts, designing to show the folly of common stock [holding property in common]. In Nauvoo every one is steward over his own [property].” (History of the Church, 6:37–38.)
Each stewardship is considered private property (see Reading L-4), and the residues and surpluses consecrated for the storehouse became the “common property of the whole church” (D&C 82:18). It is referred to as the “common property” because the covenant members of the order had access to it, according to their just “wants” and “needs,” including the need to improve their stewardship (see D&C 82:17–18).
President J. Reuben Clark Jr. said: “The United Order has not been generally understood. … [It] was not a communal system. … The United Order and communism are not synonymous. Communism is Satan’s counterfeit for the United Order. There is no mistake about this and those who go about telling us otherwise either do not know or have failed to understand or are wilfully misrepresenting.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1943, p. 11.)
President Marion G. Romney warned about the continuing imitations of the adversary: “In this modern world plagued with counterfeits for the Lord’s plan, we must not be misled into supposing that we can discharge our obligations to the poor and the needy by shifting the responsibility to some governmental or other public agency. Only by voluntarily giving out of an abundant love for our neighbors can we develop that charity characterized by Mormon as ‘the pure love of Christ.’ [Moroni 7:47.]” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1972, p. 115; or Ensign, Jan. 1973, p. 98.)
The law of consecration never was and never will be God Socialism, and in fact socialism doesn't get you closer to the law of consecration, but closer to Satan!

Now some of you may try to split hairs between the term Communism and Socialism without recognition of the historical context of these quotes, but if you look carefully, the evil is in using government power to determine fairness, and to redistribute from the rich to the poor, so the minor technical differences between Socialism and Communism are irrelevant to the point being made.


Regards,

George Clay

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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rewcox wrote:Not getting a temple recommend because you don't pay tithing, or keep the Word of Wisdom. Is that force?
What do you think of these thoughts on free agency, force and coercion in regards to tithing https://clyp.it/edbg5sed

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

Post by EmmaLee »

Mark wrote:
EmmaLee wrote:
Ezra Taft Benson wrote:"But they don’t want you to realize that the path they are pursuing is socialistic..."
That was true when he said it, but it's not true today. Today, they happily tell you they are socialists, they feel virtuous about it. They voted for Bernie, who bills himself a socialist. They voted for Obama, an avowed Marxist. And then they voted for the criminal Hillary, which leaves me without words. And when I say "they", I'm referring to the LDS people I know. :-o

Sadly, most of the people in my ward voted for Hillary on Tuesday, and as of Wednesday morning, we have a ward-wide depression going on. @-)

Excellent, and true, quote though. Thank you for posting it.
Just a thought. Perhaps the ominous upon my house shall it begin applies to those Saints who disregard the constitutional mandate they have been given and openly accept false ideologies that bring about bondage and enslavement. Communist and socialist systems eventually crumble and bring in a strong man to rule over the people. Rights then are dictated by that strong man and the pain begins. You reap what you sow..
Oh, I have no doubt about that at all.

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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

Post by EmmaLee »

BrianM wrote:
EmmaLee wrote:
Ezra Taft Benson wrote:"But they don’t want you to realize that the path they are pursuing is socialistic..."
That was true when he said it, but it's not true today. Today, they happily tell you they are socialists, they feel virtuous about it. They voted for Bernie, who bills himself a socialist. ...
Yes the Democrats are now more openly socialist. That statement is more true of today's Republicans - many want you to think they are conservatives or constitutionalists and yet they promote a lot of socialism.
Yep, agreed.


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Re: Ezra Taft Benson: We Should All Be Opposed to Socialistic-Communism and Liberalism

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One thing I notice is that socialists, while self congratulating themselves on not being materialistic, are actually the most materialistic among us. They equate equality with the equality of stuff. If you have more than I do, then it is unfair. I find this interesting. I happen to live in a very wonderful, and interesting ward, which because of the economy and geography, consist of many Mexican farm (Mushroom) workers, and many entrepreneurs and high level financial/bankers that work for a small, but heavily LDS local investment firm. I am actually kind of in the minority, because I am basically "middle class" (which seems to be disappearing here in the US..).

I enjoy the wonderful spirits, of hardworking farm laborers, and very generous and wonderful people on the high end of the income/wealth scale. Beyond that, for whatever reason the Lord has blessed me by letting me retain a single calling, that of ward financial clerk for decades, which is very unusual.

Personally, I see the wonderful spirits, and high levels of generosity displayed by many wonderful well off Latter Day Saints, and appreciate their love and eagerness to help. Not for a minute, do I care about whether , my house is a big or as good as theirs, or whether I drive as good a car as they do or anything like that.

I also see Church Welfare (and later the Law of consecration), as a willingness to do whatever one can, up to and including dedicating all one has to helping with the Lord's work, which is helping us to, as those dogfaces used to say "Be all we can be". Do you help your children by taking their tests for them in school to help make sure that they get the highest grades they can get? No, you have cheated them out of the growth that they get by struggling and learning for themselves. Do they sometimes need help in learning stuff that that cannot learn either, by themselves, or from their teachers? Yes. We love our kids, and use that love and what we have to figure out what they need to grow up. Then we use what we have to help them maximize their possibilities. How many kids of rich people are there out there who grew up to become worthless brats, because their parents, either because they were lazy, or thought it was love, gave them everything they needed, except the opportunity to grow and learn?

Why are you socialists so blind? You don't help your fellow man, by making sure they are equal in that they have the same amount of stuff, but you help them become equal, by giving them the best opportunity possible to grow and develop for themselves.


Regards,

George Clay

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