Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

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freedomforall
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:59 am

zionminded wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:
BYULAWGUY wrote:
This is so wrong on so many levels.

To the kid that posted this, I have been a bishop. Most of the boys masturbate but most don't repent for it. Of all the sins that the youth confessed to me, I never once told their parents.
Repent for it?

Nobody is keeping score. Nobody but the person who is in guilt and shame cycles.

Real repentance is identifying the limiting belief or false belief and learning new and better ways of thinking and becoming like God.
Can a person who sins and does not forsake them become like God? This is a rather simple question.
Depends on what you consider sin. Some sins we make up, other are very important.
Mosiah 4:29,30
29 And finally, I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them.
30 But this much I can tell you, that if ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, and your words, and your deeds, and observe the commandments of God, and continue in the faith of what ye have heard concerning the coming of our Lord, even unto the end of your lives, ye must perish. And now, O man, remember, and perish not.
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Rachael
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Rachael » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:22 am

freedomforall wrote:
Rachael wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote:Listen, I do not condone or encourage people to sin. The whole key is to become a saint by accepting the atonement of Christ. I choose to focus on that concept, and you choose to focus on genitalia. Now you are reaching... :-?
The atonement is a great thing to focus on, true.
May a person focus on the atonement and expect salvation without repentance?
Is Christ okay with doing all the work while a person skates along with no real commitment?
Isn't by accepting the atonement one has to do all in their power to have it stay functional for them? Can one say they accept the atonement and still be happy to favor their favorite sin, whatever that may be...in general?
Honestly can one sit in a bar, get drunk and make a scene, watch half naked women dance around and still think they are saved because they accept the atonement, without repentance?

In other words, what does a person have to do, other than merely acknowledging the atonement, to cause the atonement to take affect in their life?

Here is a hint:
Doctrine and Covenants 1:31
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

I am not making up this stuff. It's in the book!

You pit grace against works. Like pitting the book of James against the Pauline epistles. No one can attain perfection in this fleshly life, but by focusing on that only, thinking you can, can make one self righteous and phariseical. We have to rely on the Atonement and claim the righteousness of God. Even our best works are but filthy rags before God. So we bring Him our dirty laundry, because He is the only one that can wash them in His holy blood to become clean. That's what claiming the Righteousness of God means. Claiming it means you have faith in the Atonement, yet you will become so glad to receive this gift, you'll want to become a disciple of Christ.

Being meek, humble, unjudgemental, charitable, and asking forgiveness for our daily trespasses is the focus. Good works will naturally happen with that attitude.

You can busy yourself to exhaustion like Martha, or sit at the feet of Jesus which is the good part.
Luke 10:

Bible > KJV > Luke 10

◄ Luke 10 ►
38Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. 39And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. 40But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. 41And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: 42But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her."

Mormon Kid, don't let anyone take that good part away from you.
Ah, Rachael, Rachael, I have posted this scripture ad nauseam: Moroni 10:32,33

This is how we can become perfect in this life. We can become perfect IN CHRIST. We repent and commit ourselves to serving him and keeping his commandments...and in return he takes our sins upon him, rendering us perfect...in him! Rather simple, isn't it? I guess I merely post that scripture just to see how many times I can post it. Just like scripture in general. very few read them, let alone understand their meaning.

Would you be so bold as to call Christ a liar? After all, it was a prophet of God that was instructed to write this little tidbit on the plates. Isn't it time to realize this fact? Or are they all just the arm of flesh, huh?
Ok FFA, you got the letter of the law down pat. I hope you get the spirit of the law too one day.

You post scriptures all the live long day, but I doubt you'll find anything specific on masturbation. Unless you mingle it with the doctrine of men.

I like part of one of your posts when you said this:
"
freedomforall wrote:"...The goal set before us is to abhor sin, abhor evil, to seek to be pure in heart and mind, to have virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly. Those who are not are still in the natural man category. There is a difference between someone striving to be perfect and those who don't give it much thought. Those who list to follow the spirit, and those that do not. Those who lust and repent, make further mistakes, yet repent again and do their best...and those that say:..

But then you apply this scripture?
freedomforall wrote:[/i]2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God."[/i]
Mormon Kid isn't like that. He wouldn't have come here seeking advice about it if he was. he clearly abhors the habit, but the flesh is weak. He is very young. Both of us are older, so resisting the temptation is pretty easy now. I'd rather take a nap. But making a mountain out of a molehill about something 99℅ of us has done at least one or more times during pubescence or as young adults is ridiculous and harmful. So you applying 2Nephi 28:8 to him is wrong.

There may be real public consequences for Mormon Kid by confessing this very private transgression that may be way out of proportion of what he's done. Its between him and God.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby TrueIntent » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:42 am

freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:
Repent for it?

Nobody is keeping score. Nobody but the person who is in guilt and shame cycles.

Real repentance is identifying the limiting belief or false belief and learning new and better ways of thinking and becoming like God.
Can a person who sins and does not forsake them become like God? This is a rather simple question.
Depends on what you consider sin. Some sins we make up, other are very important.
Mosiah 4:29,30
29 And finally, I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them.
30 But this much I can tell you, that if ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, and your words, and your deeds, and observe the commandments of God, and continue in the faith of what ye have heard concerning the coming of our Lord, even unto the end of your lives, ye must perish. And now, O man, remember, and perish not.
I could take this same scripture and apply it to your pride--and your pride is the greater sin. This is why we shouldn't apply meaning to anything unless the scripture is specifically talking about masturbation. This is what the church does. It's wrong. You'll be judged with the same judgement you judge others. So I GUESS WE CAN apply this scripture to your pride.

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Melissa
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Melissa » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:37 am

freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:I need to chime in here a bit.

My profession is a mental health counselor. So I know a bit about this subject.

MOST masturbation (MB) habits are normal, for teens or adults. Nearly all men have or will, and nearly all women do. Nearly 40 percent or so of aging adults do it (over 70).

Having said that, SOME of the time there is a problem. It can be problematic if the behavior interferes with your life, your relationships or your health. But there are situations where the rhetoric around it is worse. For example, MB causes you to be gay or MB leads to more sexual exploration in unhealthy ways. Both are proven false, many times over.

The problem comes in our church where sexuality is so taboo. It comes when we simply DO NOT talk about it at all. We only talk about the bad things and not the healthy things. The "don't touch it" message is not helpful. It is important for people to beable explore their own sexuality (in a healthy way). Your bishop may or may not be objective, and he likely has ZERO idea to identify MB habits related to anxiety, depression, social issues, sexual problems, and a LONG list of things that they will not understand.

I'm NOT saying, people should create habits that replace normal behaviors. Comorbid problems such as compulsive porn use can cause a great deal of harm in relationships and more.

Additionally, there are some HUGE HUGE spiritual things sexual replacements (such as MB), and INCLUDING many hetronormative sexual behaviors will LIMIT your spiritual growth if you don't address them. (Big topic here on that one).

Please PM me if you have question offline, or please, find a mental heath counselor to help you. (Note your bishop can and should counsel you on your spiritual journey in the church, but not your sexual journey or questions anymore than your Bishop would address physical health issues like blood pressure or financial issues like retirement investment)
And I'm sure you learned all this from books in College and other studies except scripture. Since when does school studies supersede scriptural truth? To say that just because almost every person in society masturbates, it is considered normal. Do you see how ludicrous this sounds? This is like saying that inhaling water is normal. Most people die.
Why do people say they follow Christ, yet still normalize sin. The precepts of men say go ahead, it is normal. God says to be pure in heart, in mind and in action, to have virtue garnish our thoughts. Which one of these choices will bring us closer to God?
Is it school based concepts taught by mans own carnal nature, rather than God's word that will save mankind?

The goal is perfection, just what does this mean to you? There's a big difference between working to overcome a bad habit with lots of repentance along the way...and saying this habit is normal, not to worry about it. Ya, right!
Is it correct to not be addicted to some sin, and then tell others it is okay, just normal. Normal for whom?
You have a nice idea here and you are not wrong in that we need to be pure and strive for perfection etc.

Is a person who is depressed in sin because they don't allow God to heal them? Yes! A person, any person, no matter their state of mind...speaking of those who have all their faculties...can lend some humility, sincerity and contriteness and implore God for forgiveness. God being merciful can accept the slightest effort of repentance as long as it is with real intent and full purpose of heart as written.

A woman with PTSD...is she in sin because she lacks faith to be set free from her fears and trauma? Answered above.

The gospel is wonderful and God wants us to be perfect. There is also room for mental health professionals to speak truth too. There is so much that happens in this life that we need help with and understanding of. That is what the gospel doesnt do. This is one reason we're told to feast upon the word. Mere membership in the church does not save anyone, but is the beginning, a guidance, toward a path, even Christ in order to be saved. The key here is that we must participate in that path, there are no free rides. It just says that we will be tried and tested and have challenges and weakneses, then it says to simply go to God and repent and he will make you whole.

The gospel doesn't help in areas that lots of people need help in. The gospel is not the church, it is the scriptures, it is the "good news" by which we must learn through reading the scriptures. How many members go to church as a social gathering, giving no thought to reaching out to the Savior? It's comforting to hear that something is normal, then you don't have to hate yourself over it and can improve. Many people kill themselves because of problems they feel lost and hopeless about. Mental health professionals and other professionals can and do help many people. (Bishops refer many members to counselors) There is room for both and if done correctly one can lead to the other and produce a pretty good healthy individual.
A person going to a counselor that tells them masturbation is normal and okay...better run the opposite direction. Being told sin is okay is a good way to keep someone from repenting. A heck, everybody does it, it must be okay mentality.
Answer this question:
Why have apostles stated, "do you have the faith to not be healed"?

I know the difference between the church and the gospel, i said gospel - no need to slam the whole churchy thing when I meant as I said - gospel.

You stated that a depressed individual is in sin and needs to repent. The state of depression has many factors, more than stating one needs to have some humility. Have you ever been depressed? Someone gets seriously I'll and has to be on a month round of antibiotics, or has to take some nasty iv drugs after giving birth, this person then has their gut flora all screwed up (which has been linked to depression), does this person repent for getting sick? Repent for having a baby, Or repent for the lack of a balanced flora, or simply repent that they are subject to things outside their control?

Have you ever experienced PTSD?

To tell a person who experienced something traumatic enough that they are in sin if they experience symptoms of fear or have flashbacks that disable them...is very harsh.

So a woman abused as a child grows up to have some issues needs to repent for something she didn't do? Something that was done to her? Or can she be told that it's not her fault and have a compassionate person help her through the pain and issues without being stigmatized and judged?

I feel that you lend to the scriptures as a pedestal for your own benefit. I'm glad you have a strict adherence to the gospel, that is a good thing. But do you know how truly compassionate the Father is?

Do you know that Love is a governing force in life and in the eternities? We must understand humans and we must understand the gospel and who Christ is.

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Melissa
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Melissa » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:49 am

Rachael wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Rachael wrote:
freedomforall wrote: The atonement is a great thing to focus on, true.
May a person focus on the atonement and expect salvation without repentance?
Is Christ okay with doing all the work while a person skates along with no real commitment?
Isn't by accepting the atonement one has to do all in their power to have it stay functional for them? Can one say they accept the atonement and still be happy to favor their favorite sin, whatever that may be...in general?
Honestly can one sit in a bar, get drunk and make a scene, watch half naked women dance around and still think they are saved because they accept the atonement, without repentance?

In other words, what does a person have to do, other than merely acknowledging the atonement, to cause the atonement to take affect in their life?

Here is a hint:
Doctrine and Covenants 1:31
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

I am not making up this stuff. It's in the book!

You pit grace against works. Like pitting the book of James against the Pauline epistles. No one can attain perfection in this fleshly life, but by focusing on that only, thinking you can, can make one self righteous and phariseical. We have to rely on the Atonement and claim the righteousness of God. Even our best works are but filthy rags before God. So we bring Him our dirty laundry, because He is the only one that can wash them in His holy blood to become clean. That's what claiming the Righteousness of God means. Claiming it means you have faith in the Atonement, yet you will become so glad to receive this gift, you'll want to become a disciple of Christ.

Being meek, humble, unjudgemental, charitable, and asking forgiveness for our daily trespasses is the focus. Good works will naturally happen with that attitude.

You can busy yourself to exhaustion like Martha, or sit at the feet of Jesus which is the good part.
Luke 10:

Bible > KJV > Luke 10

◄ Luke 10 ►
38Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. 39And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. 40But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. 41And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: 42But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her."

Mormon Kid, don't let anyone take that good part away from you.
Ah, Rachael, Rachael, I have posted this scripture ad nauseam: Moroni 10:32,33

This is how we can become perfect in this life. We can become perfect IN CHRIST. We repent and commit ourselves to serving him and keeping his commandments...and in return he takes our sins upon him, rendering us perfect...in him! Rather simple, isn't it? I guess I merely post that scripture just to see how many times I can post it. Just like scripture in general. very few read them, let alone understand their meaning.

Would you be so bold as to call Christ a liar? After all, it was a prophet of God that was instructed to write this little tidbit on the plates. Isn't it time to realize this fact? Or are they all just the arm of flesh, huh?
Ok FFA, you got the letter of the law down pat. I hope you get the spirit of the law too one day.

You post scriptures all the live long day, but I doubt you'll find anything specific on masturbation. Unless you mingle it with the doctrine of men.

I like part of one of your posts when you said this:
"
freedomforall wrote:"...The goal set before us is to abhor sin, abhor evil, to seek to be pure in heart and mind, to have virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly. Those who are not are still in the natural man category. There is a difference between someone striving to be perfect and those who don't give it much thought. Those who list to follow the spirit, and those that do not. Those who lust and repent, make further mistakes, yet repent again and do their best...and those that say:..

But then you apply this scripture?
freedomforall wrote:[/i]2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God."[/i]
Mormon Kid isn't like that. He wouldn't have come here seeking advice about it if he was. he clearly abhors the habit, but the flesh is weak. He is very young. Both of us are older, so resisting the temptation is pretty easy now. I'd rather take a nap. But making a mountain out of a molehill about something 99℅ of us has done at least one or more times during pubescence or as young adults is ridiculous and harmful. So you applying 2Nephi 28:8 to him is wrong.

There may be real public consequences for Mormon Kid by confessing this very private transgression that may be way out of proportion of what he's done. Its between him and God.
I agree that he could face some unwanted consequences for divulging this to his bishop. As the other bishop stated earlier, he would then continue to monitor the issue with the child. That means he would continue to ask him about masturbation through out his youth and that itself would be damaging. He would constantly be reminded of it.
You should only go to the bishop if you have a very serious problem that needs years of monitoring. It's unlikely he does since he has already stopped. It's not a compulsion.

I believe that the Mormon kid wants to reach out to the bishop to be righteous and receive a level of care that he is searching for. Maybe he has other problems and that is the only way he knows how to tell someone or to get someone to notice him and pay attention. I wouldn't be suprised if there were deeper issues at play. Not saying there is, I just wouldn't be suprised.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:16 am

Melissa wrote:
I agree that he could face some unwanted consequences for divulging this to his bishop. As the other bishop stated earlier, he would then continue to monitor the issue with the child. That means he would continue to ask him about masturbation through out his youth and that itself would be damaging. He would constantly be reminded of it.
You should only go to the bishop if you have a very serious problem that needs years of monitoring.
You misrepresent me.
I said nothing about years of monitoring.
Once the initial period is over I would never mention it again. I would never ask him if he was free of the practice because, knowing he sought me out initially, I would have every confidence he would raise it with me himself if it ever became an issue again.
You must think we bishops are some kind of unfeeling monsters.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Rachael » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:25 am

Melissa wrote: I believe that the Mormon kid wants to reach out to the bishop to be righteous and receive a level of care that he is searching for. Maybe he has other problems and that is the only way he knows how to tell someone or to get someone to notice him and pay attention. I wouldn't be suprised if there were deeper issues at play. Not saying there is, I just wouldn't be suprised.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're deeper issues also.

I also wouldn't be surprised if justamormonguy is an adult that has been lurking for a while and wanted to see our reactions since there has been some controversy stirred up lately on another recent thread about this topic.

But in case he is who he said he is, I advise him to seek care from Christ, and not get attention from the bishop.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Melissa » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:55 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Melissa wrote:
I agree that he could face some unwanted consequences for divulging this to his bishop. As the other bishop stated earlier, he would then continue to monitor the issue with the child. That means he would continue to ask him about masturbation through out his youth and that itself would be damaging. He would constantly be reminded of it.
You should only go to the bishop if you have a very serious problem that needs years of monitoring.
You misrepresent me.
I said nothing about years of monitoring.
Once the initial period is over I would never mention it again. I would never ask him if he was free of the practice because, knowing he sought me out initially, I would have every confidence he would raise it with me himself if it ever became an issue again.
You must think we bishops are some kind of unfeeling monsters.
I'm sorry to misrepresent you. No need to attack in return if you are indeed a bishop. I don't think bishops are monsters and are unfeeling. I know bishops have an immense responsibility and I respect them for their love and service at the, often time, sacrifice of their own family time.

I would assume, as I have witnessed in my own life, that the bishop would inquire -all though it may not be direct questioning.

Again, I have respect for bishops. I'm not a hater.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:38 pm

Melissa wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Melissa wrote:
I agree that he could face some unwanted consequences for divulging this to his bishop. As the other bishop stated earlier, he would then continue to monitor the issue with the child. That means he would continue to ask him about masturbation through out his youth and that itself would be damaging. He would constantly be reminded of it.
You should only go to the bishop if you have a very serious problem that needs years of monitoring.
You misrepresent me.
I said nothing about years of monitoring.
Once the initial period is over I would never mention it again. I would never ask him if he was free of the practice because, knowing he sought me out initially, I would have every confidence he would raise it with me himself if it ever became an issue again.
You must think we bishops are some kind of unfeeling monsters.
I'm sorry to misrepresent you. No need to attack in return if you are indeed a bishop. I don't think bishops are monsters and are unfeeling. I know bishops have an immense responsibility and I respect them for their love and service at the, often time, sacrifice of their own family time.

I would assume, as I have witnessed in my own life, that the bishop would inquire -all though it may not be direct questioning.

Again, I have respect for bishops. I'm not a hater.
Thank you.
Been serving for five and a half years now. Batteries are running low but I'll carry on until someone tells me to stop.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Serragon » Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:32 pm

From reading his posts and ideas for a while, I would suspect that Robin Hood is an excellent Bishop and that those he serves love him very much.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:52 pm

Melissa wrote:Answer this question:
Why have apostles stated, "do you have the faith to not be healed"?
Why have faith to not be healed? No sense asking for a blessing with this attitude. A better question is: "do you have the faith to be healed?" Makes more sense, does it not?
Melissa wrote:You stated that a depressed individual is in sin and needs to repent. The state of depression has many factors, more than stating one needs to have some humility. Have you ever been depressed?

Funny you'd ask. Yes, I have been depressed, sometimes severely, and have been for nearly fifty years. I've taken meds for it for about twenty five years, so it don't slam me to the ground. To summarize, during the time I was not on meds I would go home from work, have dinner and later sit on the floor in front of the television, rest my back against the couch, and stay there all night with the TV still on, then shower and go back to work. I did this routine for weeks on end. Is that depressed enough for you?

All the while my grievous sins kept stacking up and taunting me. I got to where I loathed myself. I became angry all the time, hard to live with and was a miserable, disgusting human being. My sins still kept stacking up against me. It was so bad that I wanted to die and be banished to a place where I would never, ever have to face God. I didn't trust Bishops around where I lived so I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place.

One day I got on my knees and begged God to help me, I felt like my life should come to an end. Then came the news that I was being transferred out of state by my employer. I went through a divorce and lost my family...and drove alone to my next home.

I drank some, swore like a banshee and said to heck with life. My sins, many, many kept stacking up against me.

Then one day as I was driving around I saw a chapel near where I lived. I researched and got the phone number for the bishop there. My intention was to go in and ask for my name to be removed from the records of the church, I had no hope of redemption. My sins tormented my whole inside.

Long story short, this is where I went through a horrific and difficult repentance process because the bishop saw right through me and with sternness and care he helped me to rid myself of all my sins. Does anyone know how difficult it is to confess terrible sins going back decades to someone you don't even know? I came very close to excommunication, but due to the fact I went and confessed on my own, the Bishop helped me over a period of a long time until I was able to receive a temple recommend. So I went from near suicide to complete peace and joy in my bosom. The account of Alma in chap 36, vs 9-23, describes my feelings and emotions almost to the tee. My sins were now all gone and I yearned to see Christ. I'm not perfect yet I repent and hope for a better world as told us in scripture. Ether 12:4
Melissa wrote: Have you ever experienced PTSD?
Yes, ever since Vietnam, 68,69 time frame. On meds for that too. PTSD is not fun and doesn't do any good for depression.
Melissa wrote:So a woman abused as a child grows up to have some issues needs to repent for something she didn't do?
Never said anything about someone having been abused being guilty of sin. You are putting words in my mouth and saying a orated them. Not cool! The sin is on the guilty party not the recipient of evil acts. Let's keep quotes in their proper context, shall we?
Melissa wrote:I feel that you lend to the scriptures as a pedestal for your own benefit. I'm glad you have a strict adherence to the gospel, that is a good thing. But do you know how truly compassionate the Father is?
You can answer this question by what I have already said above. He helped a wretch like me and I am forever grateful.
Melissa wrote:Do you know that Love is a governing force in life and in the eternities? We must understand humans and we must understand the gospel and who Christ is.
Nothing wrong with this. :ymsigh:
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

Rumors are like tumors, they're bred and spread.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby setyourselffree » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:14 pm

Melissa wrote:It's honorable that you want to talk to your bishop. I don't believe that is necessary and you may well end up regretting it. Not everything needs to be said to the bishop. If you have it under control then why talk to him? You don't want him to always be asking you how that issue is going in your life all through your youth.

Only you know what to do and what is going on. If your parents find out it could be embarrassing but as a parent myself, I assume my son will do this at some point. If he didn't I might worry about his development. So try not to be afraid of your parents. Your dad won't care and your mom might be uncomfortable/adjusting to her boy growing up...nothing more than that.
From an LDS perspective this is horrible advise. Listen go the Spirit if it tells you to go to the Bishop, don't walk RUN.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:28 pm

Rachael wrote:You post scriptures all the live long day, but I doubt you'll find anything specific on masturbation. Unless you mingle it with the doctrine of men.
This is because I never attended the "hair splitting convention" geared to teach people to tweak scripture so it just doesn't quite spell out specifics, and to rule out all others because they don't contain a certain word. Just a good way to justify sin. If a word does not exist in scripture describing a sin it must be okay to do that sin. I know how this works, Rachael.
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Melissa » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:24 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:Answer this question:
Why have apostles stated, "do you have the faith to not be healed"?
Why have faith to not be healed? No sense asking for a blessing with this attitude. A better question is: "do you have the faith to be healed?" Makes more sense, does it not?
Melissa wrote:You stated that a depressed individual is in sin and needs to repent. The state of depression has many factors, more than stating one needs to have some humility. Have you ever been depressed?

Funny you'd ask. Yes, I have been depressed, sometimes severely, and have been for nearly fifty years. I've taken meds for it for about twenty five years, so it don't slam me to the ground. To summarize, during the time I was not on meds I would go home from work, have dinner and later sit on the floor in front of the television, rest my back against the couch, and stay there all night with the TV still on, then shower and go back to work. I did this routine for weeks on end. Is that depressed enough for you?

All the while my grievous sins kept stacking up and taunting me. I got to where I loathed myself. I became angry all the time, hard to live with and was a miserable, disgusting human being. My sins still kept stacking up against me. It was so bad that I wanted to die and be banished to a place where I would never, ever have to face God. I didn't trust Bishops around where I lived so I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place.

One day I got on my knees and begged God to help me, I felt like my life should come to an end. Then came the news that I was being transferred out of state by my employer. I went through a divorce and lost my family...and drove alone to my next home.

I drank some, swore like a banshee and said to heck with life. My sins, many, many kept stacking up against me.

Then one day as I was driving around I saw a chapel near where I lived. I researched and got the phone number for the bishop there. My intention was to go in and ask for my name to be removed from the records of the church, I had no hope of redemption. My sins tormented my whole inside.

Long story short, this is where I went through a horrific and difficult repentance process because the bishop saw right through me and with sternness and care he helped me to rid myself of all my sins. Does anyone know how difficult it is to confess terrible sins going back decades to someone you don't even know? I came very close to excommunication, but due to the fact I went and confessed on my own, the Bishop helped me over a period of a long time until I was able to receive a temple recommend. So I went from near suicide to complete peace and joy in my bosom. The account of Alma in chap 36, vs 9-23, describes my feelings and emotions almost to the tee. My sins were now all gone and I yearned to see Christ. I'm not perfect yet I repent and hope for a better world as told us in scripture. Ether 12:4
Melissa wrote: Have you ever experienced PTSD?
Yes, ever since Vietnam, 68,69 time frame. On meds for that too. PTSD is not fun and doesn't do any good for depression.
Melissa wrote:So a woman abused as a child grows up to have some issues needs to repent for something she didn't do?
Never said anything about someone having been abused being guilty of sin. You are putting words in my mouth and saying a orated them. Not cool! The sin is on the guilty party not the recipient of evil acts. Let's keep quotes in their proper context, shall we?
Melissa wrote:I feel that you lend to the scriptures as a pedestal for your own benefit. I'm glad you have a strict adherence to the gospel, that is a good thing. But do you know how truly compassionate the Father is?
You can answer this question by what I have already said above. He helped a wretch like me and I am forever grateful.
Melissa wrote:Do you know that Love is a governing force in life and in the eternities? We must understand humans and we must understand the gospel and who Christ is.
Nothing wrong with this. :ymsigh:
Nice depression story but that wasn't the depression I was referring to. I'm talking about depression NOT due to sin.

The first statement about the apostle about having the faith to not be healed was quoted by - I believe Elder Bednar. Yes, he actually said it!! Not me. So rephrase it to suit yourself but that's not the quote he gave or the meaning he sent.

It was weird to hear and didn't sound good but it's what he said. So not everyone is going to be healed. That's not because they haven't repented or begged for mercy and peace and healing.

If depression is due to sin then it's as simple as being in bondage and you need deliverance from evil. There repentance is vital. But if your depressed by no fault of your own and are not sinning and are doing what is right- then what? What shall this person repent of? Because according to you they are sinning.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Rachael » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:38 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Rachael wrote:You post scriptures all the live long day, but I doubt you'll find anything specific on masturbation. Unless you mingle it with the doctrine of men.
This is because I never attended the "hair splitting convention" geared to teach people to tweak scripture so it just doesn't quite spell out specifics, and to rule out all others because they don't contain a certain word. Just a good way to justify sin. If a word does not exist in scripture describing a sin it must be okay to do that sin. I know how this works, Rachael.

I agree with you here. I don't think masturbation is Ok, or looking at porn, and many other sins not spelled out specifically in Scripture. I just don't agree that the specific sin we are discussing requires confession to a bishop.i don't believe they should even ask a kid about it especially without parental consent

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:53 pm

Melissa wrote:If depression is due to sin then it's as simple as being in bondage and you need deliverance from evil. There repentance is vital. But if your depressed by no fault of your own and are not sinning and are doing what is right- then what? What shall this person repent of? Because according to you they are sinning.
Wrong. According to scripture, the word of God...they are sinning. Let's not confuse who wrote the rules. I've already called you on this. I guess you didn't grasp the problem, huh? Do not put words into my mouth.

Also, I never said sin causes depression in and of itself. I think, and I could be wrong, depression is something that comes from three possible circumstances, 1) comes through genes, 2) a brain disorder and 3) a child feeling unloved or in the way during rearing.
Just because someone is depressed doesn't give them a pass from receiving consequences for sin. Being depressed doesn't mean a person lacks humility, shame, remorse, sorrow or regret. A depressed person is not in the same category as someone with down syndrome either. Only those that are mentally handicapped, not being aware of right and wrong are exempt from God's justice.

What part of "For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance" is so difficult for us humans to understand? Justification for sin does not removing pending consequences, justice will be served no matter what...unless repented of.

This about says it all.

Is there any way around Christ saying "repent, repent, repent and come unto me throughout scripture?
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:11 pm

Rachael wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Rachael wrote:You post scriptures all the live long day, but I doubt you'll find anything specific on masturbation. Unless you mingle it with the doctrine of men.
This is because I never attended the "hair splitting convention" geared to teach people to tweak scripture so it just doesn't quite spell out specifics, and to rule out all others because they don't contain a certain word. Just a good way to justify sin. If a word does not exist in scripture describing a sin it must be okay to do that sin. I know how this works, Rachael.

I agree with you here. I don't think masturbation is Ok, or looking at porn, and many other sins not spelled out specifically in Scripture. I just don't agree that the specific sin we are discussing requires confession to a bishop.i don't believe they should even ask a kid about it especially without parental consent
A bishop may be inspired to ask a young man and the bishop must ask. Why?

D&C 46:27
27 And unto the bishop of the church, and unto such as God shall appoint and ordain to watch over the church and to be elders unto the church, are to have it given unto them to discern all those gifts lest there shall be any among you professing and yet be not of God.

Therefore, they are within their right, their stewardship to ask any questions when prompted according to these gifts. See; D&C 46

This is not to suggest there are not overzealous bishops that let some kind of power go to their head, or even become jerk. Believe me, I've seen a few.

Titus 1:7-9
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
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REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Red » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:29 pm

Hi Mormon Kid,

Some bishops don't tell the parents and some bishops do. I think you should decide for yourself whether to tell him. If you tell him, you should definitely tell him not to tell your parents. I Say this bc I think YOU should be the one to tell them, IF you choose to do so. I would want my kids to tell me if it was causing them pain. It was causing severe depression for one of my boys. I wanted to help him, so I'm glad he told me. please know that no matter what your parents or your bishop says, YOU ARE LOVED. Always and forever. It doesn't matter what you do, God loves you.

I have two boys close to your age. I admit that for a mom, it's weird to talk to my boys about it, but let me tell you what I came up with to try and help them. I asked them if there was anything I could do to help them not masturbate. They gave me a few things and I did that for them. They still struggle but they know they are still loved. Above all though, I let them know that I loved them regardless of what they did and that Christ and God love them even more than I do bc their love is perfect. Christ has already forgiven you, kiddo. You're going to be ok. You're not going to hell. Do not feel sick about this, just do your best to overcome it and LOVE YOURSELF bc Christ already does.

And to everyone else fighting on this thread, go elsewhere for the sake of the kid.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Melissa » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:38 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:If depression is due to sin then it's as simple as being in bondage and you need deliverance from evil. There repentance is vital. But if your depressed by no fault of your own and are not sinning and are doing what is right- then what? What shall this person repent of? Because according to you they are sinning.
Wrong. According to scripture, the word of God...they are sinning. Let's not confuse who wrote the rules. I've already called you on this. I guess you didn't grasp the problem, huh? Do not put words into my mouth.

Also, I never said sin causes depression in and of itself. I think, and I could be wrong, depression is something that comes from three possible circumstances, 1) comes through genes, 2) a brain disorder and 3) a child feeling unloved or in the way during rearing.
Just because someone is depressed doesn't give them a pass from receiving consequences for sin. Being depressed doesn't mean a person lacks humility, shame, remorse, sorrow or regret. A depressed person is not in the same category as someone with down syndrome either. Only those that are mentally handicapped, not being aware of right and wrong are exempt from God's justice.

What part of "For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance" is so difficult for us humans to understand? Justification for sin does not removing pending consequences, justice will be served no matter what...unless repented of.

This about says it all.

Is there any way around Christ saying "repent, repent, repent and come unto me throughout scripture?
What does this depressed person repent of? How are they sinning?

Without coming back condescending, can you answer those simple questions?

If your referencing the simple fact that we are all sinners and are called to repent and come unto God...then just say that. But to say depression itself is a sin is not quite accurate. It may have been for your depression but to apply your situation to every ones situation doesn't work.

If one is depressed from an imbalance in gut flora, again, what do they repent of regarding this type of cause for depression?

Edit:
Better yet, let's just drop it because I think there is just a misunderstanding going on. Maybe you were believing that i was saying depression meant that you were not responsible for accountability of sin much like a person under the age of accountabilty in development....I don't know where you got this idea but...regardless I'm sure there is some misunderstanding.

I admit I kept the conversation going because I didn't like your attitude and condescending nature and what you were saying..but hey, to each their own.
Peace

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Rachael » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:08 am

freedomforall wrote:...This is not to suggest there are not overzealous bishops that let some kind of power go to their head, or even become jerk. Believe me, I've seen a few...
I believe those that ask about it are being jerks. It's inappropriate. I think SWK's MoF book and BKP's pamphlet was jerk-ish too. Both were trend setting for jerkish-ness behavior in worthiness interviews with bishops.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:20 am

Rachael wrote:
freedomforall wrote:...This is not to suggest there are not overzealous bishops that let some kind of power go to their head, or even become jerk. Believe me, I've seen a few...
I believe those that ask are being a jerk. It's inappropriate.
Then in essence you're calling the Holy Ghost a jerk. Your insinuations of name calling directed at a bishop guided by the HG is very lame. You may have some explaining to do.
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:28 am

Melissa wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:If depression is due to sin then it's as simple as being in bondage and you need deliverance from evil. There repentance is vital. But if your depressed by no fault of your own and are not sinning and are doing what is right- then what? What shall this person repent of? Because according to you they are sinning.
Wrong. According to scripture, the word of God...they are sinning. Let's not confuse who wrote the rules. I've already called you on this. I guess you didn't grasp the problem, huh? Do not put words into my mouth.

Also, I never said sin causes depression in and of itself. I think, and I could be wrong, depression is something that comes from three possible circumstances, 1) comes through genes, 2) a brain disorder and 3) a child feeling unloved or in the way during rearing.
Just because someone is depressed doesn't give them a pass from receiving consequences for sin. Being depressed doesn't mean a person lacks humility, shame, remorse, sorrow or regret. A depressed person is not in the same category as someone with down syndrome either. Only those that are mentally handicapped, not being aware of right and wrong are exempt from God's justice.

What part of "For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance" is so difficult for us humans to understand? Justification for sin does not removing pending consequences, justice will be served no matter what...unless repented of.

This about says it all.

Is there any way around Christ saying "repent, repent, repent and come unto me throughout scripture?
What does this depressed person repent of? How are they sinning?

Without coming back condescending, can you answer those simple questions?

If your referencing the simple fact that we are all sinners and are called to repent and come unto God...then just say that. But to say depression itself is a sin is not quite accurate. It may have been for your depression but to apply your situation to every ones situation doesn't work.

If one is depressed from an imbalance in gut flora, again, what do they repent of regarding this type of cause for depression?

Edit:
Better yet, let's just drop it because I think there is just a misunderstanding going on. Maybe you were believing that i was saying depression meant that you were not responsible for accountability of sin much like a person under the age of accountabilty in development....I don't know where you got this idea but...regardless I'm sure there is some misunderstanding.

I admit I kept the conversation going because I didn't like your attitude and condescending nature and what you were saying..but hey, to each their own.
Peace
Are we playing mind games? When you keep putting words in my mouth I didn't say, I have reason to get upset. And your repetitive same questions asked, as if you'd get a different answer, doesn't help either. You're right, let's quit while you're doing all the thinking for me. My answers don't seem to sink in. And twistig my words don't help much either.
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

Rumors are like tumors, they're bred and spread.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Rachael » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:31 am

Red wrote:Hi Mormon Kid,

Some bishops don't tell the parents and some bishops do. I think you should decide for yourself whether to tell him. If you tell him, you should definitely tell him not to tell your parents. I Say this bc I think YOU should be the one to tell them, IF you choose to do so. I would want my kids to tell me if it was causing them pain. It was causing severe depression for one of my boys. I wanted to help him, so I'm glad he told me. please know that no matter what your parents or your bishop says, YOU ARE LOVED. Always and forever. It doesn't matter what you do, God loves you.

I have two boys close to your age. I admit that for a mom, it's weird to talk to my boys about it, but let me tell you what I came up with to try and help them. I asked them if there was anything I could do to help them not masturbate. They gave me a few things and I did that for them. They still struggle but they know they are still loved. Above all though, I let them know that I loved them regardless of what they did and that Christ and God love them even more than I do bc their love is perfect. Christ has already forgiven you, kiddo. You're going to be ok. You're not going to hell. Do not feel sick about this, just do your best to overcome it and LOVE YOURSELF bc Christ already does.

And to everyone else fighting on this thread, go elsewhere for the sake of the kid.
For your kids ' mental health sake, it might not be so great for them if you try to have the power of an all seeing eye like God has. I'm sure you've instilled in them that God sees all, even in secret. So it's doubled in the shame factor that you have to know too. Then triple the bishop has to know, and depending on his respect of the concept of confidentiality, you may or may not add some exponential shame and guilt. Tell them it's not a great hobby to engage in, and leave it between them and the LORD. Or keep on, focusing on it. Make them so guilt and shame ridden, they become neurotic and develop sexual hangups. They'll likely outgrow the compulsion and have more strength to resist the temptation it when they're hormones calm down.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Melissa » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:36 am

freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:If depression is due to sin then it's as simple as being in bondage and you need deliverance from evil. There repentance is vital. But if your depressed by no fault of your own and are not sinning and are doing what is right- then what? What shall this person repent of? Because according to you they are sinning.
Wrong. According to scripture, the word of God...they are sinning. Let's not confuse who wrote the rules. I've already called you on this. I guess you didn't grasp the problem, huh? Do not put words into my mouth.

Also, I never said sin causes depression in and of itself. I think, and I could be wrong, depression is something that comes from three possible circumstances, 1) comes through genes, 2) a brain disorder and 3) a child feeling unloved or in the way during rearing.
Just because someone is depressed doesn't give them a pass from receiving consequences for sin. Being depressed doesn't mean a person lacks humility, shame, remorse, sorrow or regret. A depressed person is not in the same category as someone with down syndrome either. Only those that are mentally handicapped, not being aware of right and wrong are exempt from God's justice.

What part of "For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance" is so difficult for us humans to understand? Justification for sin does not removing pending consequences, justice will be served no matter what...unless repented of.

This about says it all.

Is there any way around Christ saying "repent, repent, repent and come unto me throughout scripture?
What does this depressed person repent of? How are they sinning?

Without coming back condescending, can you answer those simple questions?

If your referencing the simple fact that we are all sinners and are called to repent and come unto God...then just say that. But to say depression itself is a sin is not quite accurate. It may have been for your depression but to apply your situation to every ones situation doesn't work.

If one is depressed from an imbalance in gut flora, again, what do they repent of regarding this type of cause for depression?

Edit:
Better yet, let's just drop it because I think there is just a misunderstanding going on. Maybe you were believing that i was saying depression meant that you were not responsible for accountability of sin much like a person under the age of accountabilty in development....I don't know where you got this idea but...regardless I'm sure there is some misunderstanding.

I admit I kept the conversation going because I didn't like your attitude and condescending nature and what you were saying..but hey, to each their own.
Peace
Are we playing mind games? When you keep putting words in my mouth I didn't say, I have reason to get upset. And your repetitive same questions asked, as if you'd get a different answer, doesn't help either. You're right, let's quit while you're doing all the thinking for me. My answers don't seem to sink in. And twistig my words don't help much either.
Not twisting or trying to put words in your mouth. Trying to understand you by posing questions to receive clarification. It's really not nice to treat others as if they are dumb when all they are looking for is clarification- - usually because the idea is a little off or something hard to believe a person would say.

Okay, your stance is that depression is a sin. Got it- clear as day. It's not a common LDS belief but it's yours and that your right. Opps...the scriptures belief, my bad.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Rachael » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:39 am

freedomforall wrote:
Rachael wrote:
freedomforall wrote:...This is not to suggest there are not overzealous bishops that let some kind of power go to their head, or even become jerk. Believe me, I've seen a few...
I believe those that ask are being a jerk. It's inappropriate.
Then in essence you're calling the Holy Ghost a jerk. Your insinuations of name calling directed at a bishop guided by the HG is very lame. You may have some explaining to do.
Saying a bishop = the HG in essence is lame, especially when you've witnessed that you've seen some become jerks. You're the one who said "some...even become [a] jerk... I've seen a few."

I don't have to explain myself to you. But feel free to explain my perception of your jerkiness, or your perception of mine, or not, to me or God, or no one at all.

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:57 am

Melissa wrote:Okay, your stance is that depression is a sin. Got it- clear as day. Baloney. It's not a common LDS belief but it's yours and that your right. Baloney. Opps...the scriptures belief, my bad.
There you go again. You want clarification? No where I did not say depression is a sin. Show me one instance where I even hinted this. You are putting words in my mouth by badgering me with things I have not said. I have sinned before, during and after being depressed. That is not to say or even hint that depression is a sin. Get over yourself.

Depression

sadness; gloom; dejection.

Psychiatry. a condition of general emotional dejection and withdrawal; sadness greater and more prolonged than that warranted by any objective reason.

Clinical depression.

noun

Psychiatry. a depression so severe as to be considered abnormal, either because of no obvious environmental causes, or because the reaction to unfortunate life circumstances is more intense or prolonged than would generally be expected.

This is depression. This is the condition I refer. It is not a sin, okay? Are we on the same page now? Is this clear enough to grasp?
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Rachael » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:05 am

I hope you had a happy Veteran's Day FFA. Thank you for your service. [insert RS heart].

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Melissa » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:16 am

freedomforall wrote:
Melissa wrote:Okay, your stance is that depression is a sin. Got it- clear as day. Baloney. It's not a common LDS belief but it's yours and that your right. Baloney. Opps...the scriptures belief, my bad.
There you go again. You want clarification? No where I did not say depression is a sin. Show me one instance where I even hinted this. You are putting words in my mouth by badgering me with things I have not said. I have sinned before, during and after being depressed. That is not to say or even hint that depression is a sin. Get over yourself.

Depression

sadness; gloom; dejection.

Psychiatry. a condition of general emotional dejection and withdrawal; sadness greater and more prolonged than that warranted by any objective reason.

Clinical depression.

noun

Psychiatry. a depression so severe as to be considered abnormal, either because of no obvious environmental causes, or because the reaction to unfortunate life circumstances is more intense or prolonged than would generally be expected.

This is depression. This is the condition I refer. It is not a sin, okay? Are we on the same page now? Is this clear enough to grasp?
Lol, yes! The reason I was asking so much is because you did hint at it. Re-read my very first reply. But anyway, thanks for being clear!

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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:19 am

Rachael wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Rachael wrote:
freedomforall wrote:...This is not to suggest there are not overzealous bishops that let some kind of power go to their head, or even become jerk. Believe me, I've seen a few...
I believe those that ask are being a jerk. It's inappropriate.
Then in essence you're calling the Holy Ghost a jerk. Your insinuations of name calling directed at a bishop guided by the HG is very lame. You may have some explaining to do.
Saying a bishop = the HG in essence is lame, So this is what I said verbatim? especially when you've witnessed that you've seen some become jerks. Did I somehow say ALL bishops are jerks? You're the one who said "some...even become [a] jerk... I've seen a few." So you're saying to not counsel with any bishop because they might be a jerk? Whatever yanks your chain, sister.

I don't have to explain myself to you.
I'd rather you didn't, please don't. I don't think I could digest it. But feel free to explain my perception of your jerkiness, or your perception of mine, or not, to me or God, or no one at all.
I'll pass, what I have said is clear enough no matter how much you would like to twist it around, You are free to believe whatever you want, but that is your burden, not mine.
I know you have issues with the church and will find anything to back these issues. Just read your own posts. Did you and Melissa come up together. Both are good at wresting words and sentences in order to make a point.
But know this, all your rant and disgruntlement will only make me stronger. I know what scriptures say and I'm content with that. You see, I've been where you are and I know the vast difference.
So rant all you want, please.
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

Rumors are like tumors, they're bred and spread.

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Rachael
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Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Rachael » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:31 am

I haven't walked a mile in your shoes, and vice versa. I wouldn't know Melissa in real life from Adam (or Eve) and vice versa again. Nor is there some collaboration between us.

I disagree with about everyone some of the time though we might agree most of the time, maybe a vast majority, which happens if they post enough to become a regular. But then we might part ways on opinions/beliefs on other threads, depending on the subject. Or maybe just certain posts. I'm not part of some clique. Or ever will be.

If you want to become stronger in the doctrine of men, when Christ is the one who should get all the credit for saving wretches like us, suit yourself.
Last edited by Rachael on Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:52 am, edited 2 times in total.


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