Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Discussion of principles relating to God's Law, Agency, Freedom, Liberty, the US constitution, and the Proper Role of Government.
User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:09 pm

TrueIntent wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
ajax wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
I believe this is poor advice.
It is true that there is a "little factory". However, as with all factories, the more you use them the more they produce.


Much better than shaming them and encouraging them to talk to adult strangers about their private erections and ejaculations and fretting over sin and worthiness of said issues.

And much better (imo) than likening it unto a soccer match, where as long as your winning, your fine. So 18 is cool as long as he scores 19? What if he ties or loses. Well then $hit! Back to square one. Instead, tell them they are not sinners or evil and are naturally growing and discovering and leave 'em be.

Worked charms for my adult boys.

(I fretted about being an evil SOB while growing up because of this and the church constantly hammering it)


I'm sorry Ajax, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Here's a question for you. Is masturbation a sin?
Now, before you answer that, think about what is going through a young man's mind when he is involved in this.
Is he lusting? There's your answer.


Babies do it in the womb! Little children do it...then become teenagers and adults and still do it. You tell me....is it a sin? And if it is....what is the consequence and what should be their punishment? Also, to the "lust" part, who on the face of the planet hasn't lusted??????? Cast the first stone. I think a better question is, Robinhood, have you ever masterbated?

Maybe Robinhood won a spelling bee. :)) :)) :))

The goal set before us is to abhor sin, abhor evil, to seek to be pure in heart and mind, to have virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly. Those who are not are still in the natural man category. There is a difference between someone striving to be perfect and those who don't give it much thought. Those who list to follow the spirit, and those that do not. Those who lust and repent, make further mistakes, yet repent again and do their best...and those that say:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

BTW, babies and little children are not under the law, therefore, their activities as a point for immoral behavior is irrelevant. Good grief!
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

Sponsored Links

Advertisements

Medical Cost Sharing - It's not insurance it's better!

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:52 pm

Obrien wrote: (-| I'm a little sad that the yawn isn't in red, too.

Boo, hoo, hoo. If you only knew! You proved to me what I suspected all along. I proved my point using scripture, not justification. Not one thing you can ever say will have power enough to change that. You may as well quit while you're behind.
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:41 pm

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby zionminded » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:02 am

ajax wrote:
zionminded wrote:
I would suggest getting a mental health counselor to help you,


Please don't.


So if somebody has cancer, you goto your bishop , and not seek your doctor ?

Sexual issues require somebody who is trained in those area. Most Bishops have zero training on sexual behaviors and comorbid conditions.
#1 Lie - You are separate from God and others

User avatar
BYULAWGUY
captain of 10
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 3:17 pm

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby BYULAWGUY » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:07 am

Serragon wrote:If you have truly forsaken the sin and confessed to the Lord, you don't need to confess to the Bishop.

If you are struggling and unable to forsake the sin, confession to the Bishop is probably necessary.


This is so wrong on so many levels.

To the kid that posted this, I have been a bishop. Most of the boys masturbate but most don't repent for it. Of all the sins that the youth confessed to me, I never once told their parents.
"I also doze in church occasionally, but that's because I trust my leaders. If I were worried about what they were doing, I'd stay wide awake." Henry Eyring, Reflections of a Scientist, page 23

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:41 pm

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby zionminded » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:10 am

BYULAWGUY wrote:
Serragon wrote:If you have truly forsaken the sin and confessed to the Lord, you don't need to confess to the Bishop.

If you are struggling and unable to forsake the sin, confession to the Bishop is probably necessary.


This is so wrong on so many levels.

To the kid that posted this, I have been a bishop. Most of the boys masturbate but most don't repent for it. Of all the sins that the youth confessed to me, I never once told their parents.
#1 Lie - You are separate from God and others

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:41 pm

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby zionminded » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:13 am

BYULAWGUY wrote:
Serragon wrote:If you have truly forsaken the sin and confessed to the Lord, you don't need to confess to the Bishop.

If you are struggling and unable to forsake the sin, confession to the Bishop is probably necessary.


This is so wrong on so many levels.

To the kid that posted this, I have been a bishop. Most of the boys masturbate but most don't repent for it. Of all the sins that the youth confessed to me, I never once told their parents.


Repent for it?

Nobody is keeping score. Nobody but the person who is in guilt and shame cycles.

Real repentance is identifying the limiting belief or false belief and learning new and better ways of thinking and becoming like God.
#1 Lie - You are separate from God and others

User avatar
TrueIntent
captain of 100
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 10:34 am

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby TrueIntent » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:42 pm

braingrunt wrote:@TrueIntent
So, to get you to clarify the real thrust of your point, I will descend into the ridiculous:
So, are you saying that a person who has had cause to repent cannot recommend repentance?


Nope I am not saying that. I believe in repentance--- it's how we come to Christ. In fact, I would argue that many of the ways we are taught to "repent" in the church may keep us from coming to Christ. Sometimes we go beyond the mark. We should follow the spirit. The Pharisee held their children to standards and laws they were never able to keep themselves...instead of making it part of questions for a worthiness interview (and being hypocrites ourselves) we should just teach from the scriptures, focus on whether or not the behavior brings good fruits or bad fruits (which shame and guilt for something that infants do in the womb) is a bad fruit. Rather, is it an addictive behavior? We should teach that....let's not be hypocrites....seriously if we all had to put a scarlet letter on for the sins we committed and wore them around the sacrament building, we would be a lot more humble about whether or not the sin is as damning as we portray it. I actually believe we do more harm by casting judgements, rather than saying...oh probably 85 percent of the ward has touched themselves inapproprsitely or masturbated at some point....remember...if Christ is the perfect role model, if he is the way, sin, as defined under the law (rules of the Pharisees) is not always sin...look at Christ's apostles, and look at the Pharisees, the Pharisees were the religious elite who "claimed to follow the whole law" but inwardly we were vipers. Look at this way. What do you think Christ would say to this boy if he were to confess this sin to him? What would a Pharisee say to the boy? You have to come to know Christ to understand he wasn't as worried about the perceived sinners as he was about those who claimed to be the religious elite. It's the religious elite who never come to Christ because outwardly they keep the "commandments of men" but inwardly they were judgemental, liars, and hypocrites...they were the furthest from Christ, not the prostitutes, whores, and murders....The apostle Paul used to kill christians. Think about that.

User avatar
TrueIntent
captain of 100
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 10:34 am

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby TrueIntent » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:50 pm

freedomforall wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
ajax wrote:
Much better than shaming them and encouraging them to talk to adult strangers about their private erections and ejaculations and fretting over sin and worthiness of said issues.

And much better (imo) than likening it unto a soccer match, where as long as your winning, your fine. So 18 is cool as long as he scores 19? What if he ties or loses. Well then $hit! Back to square one. Instead, tell them they are not sinners or evil and are naturally growing and discovering and leave 'em be.

Worked charms for my adult boys.

(I fretted about being an evil SOB while growing up because of this and the church constantly hammering it)


I'm sorry Ajax, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Here's a question for you. Is masturbation a sin?
Now, before you answer that, think about what is going through a young man's mind when he is involved in this.
Is he lusting? There's your answer.


Babies do it in the womb! Little children do it...then become teenagers and adults and still do it. You tell me....is it a sin? And if it is....what is the consequence and what should be their punishment? Also, to the "lust" part, who on the face of the planet hasn't lusted??????? Cast the first stone. I think a better question is, Robinhood, have you ever masterbated?

Maybe Robinhood won a spelling bee. :)) :)) :))

The goal set before us is to abhor sin, abhor evil, to seek to be pure in heart and mind, to have virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly. Those who are not are still in the natural man category. There is a difference between someone striving to be perfect and those who don't give it much thought. Those who list to follow the spirit, and those that do not. Those who lust and repent, make further mistakes, yet repent again and do their best...and those that say:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

BTW, babies and little children are not under the law, therefore, their activities as a point for immoral behavior is irrelevant. Good grief!



Right....u make my point. GOd will not justify in committing a little sin...which means we all must repent of our unworthiness...we all suck and fall short. Submitting the youth to these questions without acknowledgeing that the vast majority of members in the congregation have masturbated, and Lusted is hypocrisy,...we should reveal our own sins, and then show mercy, guidance, and love. No one gets saved without repenting and accessing grace....and alas, even murders and whores will be saved. The Savior said, u less we exceed the righteousness of the Pharisee we will not enter the kingdom of heaven. The Pharisee were the ones asking questions about whether or not someone masterbated, and they were the accusers who claimed that masturbation would keep someone out of Heaven.....NOT coming to Christ keeps you out of the kingdom of God.

Also, you view the scripture, "eat drink and be merry" through the lens of Mormonism as it was taught you. The savior ate, drank, and socialized with the sinners......the difference was the attitude...the attitude that I can sin and cause myself pain and others and then not change my heart. It's not the outward man, it's the inward man....this time we are in is a time to prepare to meet god....to prepare the inward man. Nothing outward saves us. So when we also judge others, we condemn others for things outwardly when we don't really know their heart.

Btw, the word virtue does not mean what we teach it to mean at church. We are obsessed with sex and control in Mormonism. Study the word virtue in the dictionary, and then study every passage of scripture that contains the word "virtue" across all books of scripture. Virtue is an all encompassing quality...like the word integrity.....it's associated with a state of "being" that has to do with MANY different God-like qualities...which can include chastity, but is in no way ONLY about chasity. Our church has grossly misrepresented the word. They have also done this with the word "pure" and "purity". If you will look at lds.org and do a search of the word "virture" you will find nearly every single talk equates it with SEXUAL PURITY. It is a distortion of the scriptures and meaning. We should be ashamed of how we have distorted the divine beauty of sex in our culture. Look up Chastity in the topical guide as well....we have included scriptures in this section that have absolutely nothing to do with what god defines as virtuous and pure and used them to equate all meaning with chastity. We are obsessed as a culture with controlling sex, and how we view others through outward "appearance". It's why Elizabeth smart made her recent comments in the press. The church tries to pretend they haven't taught this culture, however, the way we define scripture and teach from conference talks clearly says otherwise.
Last edited by TrueIntent on Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TrueIntent
captain of 100
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 10:34 am

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby TrueIntent » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:17 pm

On a side note, it's not just the church...it's the members...if the members were in the right place in their heart...we would stand up and speak out against these things. But we don't....we get what we believe and what we ask for. It's sad.

User avatar
Obrien
Up, up and away.
Posts: 4910
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:01 pm

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Obrien » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:31 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote: (-| I'm a little sad that the yawn isn't in red, too.

Boo, hoo, hoo. If you only knew! You proved to me what I suspected all along. I proved my point using scripture, not justification. Not one thing you can ever say will have power enough to change that. You may as well quit while you're behind.


You didn't prove anything, FYI. You make a bunch of interpretations of scripture that agree with your interpretations of scripture. Never quit - you're a great source of inspiration for many, just not for me.
Peace be unto you...

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Obrien wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote: (-| I'm a little sad that the yawn isn't in red, too.

Boo, hoo, hoo. If you only knew! You proved to me what I suspected all along. I proved my point using scripture, not justification. Not one thing you can ever say will have power enough to change that. You may as well quit while you're behind.


You didn't prove anything, FYI. You make a bunch of interpretations of scripture that agree with your interpretations of scripture. Never quit - you're a great source of inspiration for many, just not for me.

What I did prove, is that you will never, ever be able to justify sin.

Look up the word "abhor." Alma 13:12
What does it mean to shake at the appearance of sin? 2 Nephi 4:31
What does the word "forsake" mean? D&C 58:43
What does it mean to be humble and contrite? https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/broke ... g&letter=b
What does it mean to be lowly of heart? Matthew 11:29
What does it mean to overcome the natural man?

Mosiah 3:19
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

Now, what does "submissive" mean?
What does "meek" mean?
What does "patient" mean?
How about the word "submit?"
What does the word "pure" mean? Morm. 9:6 .
What does "spotless" mean? https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/spotl ... g&letter=s

Don't take my interpretation as fact. Research and then tell me what all these things mean for yourself.
After doing this, you will know what I am talking about.
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

User avatar
Obrien
Up, up and away.
Posts: 4910
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:01 pm

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Obrien » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:50 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote: (-| I'm a little sad that the yawn isn't in red, too.

Boo, hoo, hoo. If you only knew! You proved to me what I suspected all along. I proved my point using scripture, not justification. Not one thing you can ever say will have power enough to change that. You may as well quit while you're behind.


You didn't prove anything, FYI. You make a bunch of interpretations of scripture that agree with your interpretations of scripture. Never quit - you're a great source of inspiration for many, just not for me.

What I did prove, is that you will never, ever be able to justify sin.

Look up the word "abhor." Alma 13:12
What does it mean to shake at the appearance of sin? 2 Nephi 4:31
What does the word "forsake" mean? D&C 58:43
What does it mean to be humble and contrite? https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/broke ... g&letter=b
What does it mean to be lowly of heart? Matthew 11:29
What does it mean to overcome the natural man?

Mosiah 3:19
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

Now, what does "submissive" mean?
What does "meek" mean?
What does "patient" mean?
How about the word "submit?"
What does the word "pure" mean? Morm. 9:6 .
What does "spotless" mean? https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/spotl ... g&letter=s

Don't take my interpretation as fact. Research and then tell me what all these things mean for yourself.
After doing this, you will know what I am talking about.


Listen, I do not condone or encourage people to sin. The whole key is to become a saint by accepting the atonement of Christ. I choose to focus on that concept, and you choose to focus on genitalia.
Peace be unto you...

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:09 pm

TrueIntent wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
I'm sorry Ajax, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Here's a question for you. Is masturbation a sin?
Now, before you answer that, think about what is going through a young man's mind when he is involved in this.
Is he lusting? There's your answer.


Babies do it in the womb! Little children do it...then become teenagers and adults and still do it. You tell me....is it a sin? And if it is....what is the consequence and what should be their punishment? Also, to the "lust" part, who on the face of the planet hasn't lusted??????? Cast the first stone. I think a better question is, Robinhood, have you ever masterbated?

Maybe Robinhood won a spelling bee. :)) :)) :))

The goal set before us is to abhor sin, abhor evil, to seek to be pure in heart and mind, to have virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly. Those who are not are still in the natural man category. There is a difference between someone striving to be perfect and those who don't give it much thought. Those who list to follow the spirit, and those that do not. Those who lust and repent, make further mistakes, yet repent again and do their best...and those that say:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

BTW, babies and little children are not under the law, therefore, their activities as a point for immoral behavior is irrelevant. Good grief!



Right....u make my point. GOd will not justify in committing a little sin...which means we all must repent of our unworthiness...we all suck and fall short. Submitting the youth to these questions without acknowledgeing that the vast majority of members in the congregation have masturbated, and Lusted is hypocrisy,...we should reveal our own sins, and then show mercy, guidance, and love. No one gets saved without repenting and accessing grace....and alas, even murders and whores will be saved. The Savior said, u less we exceed the righteousness of the Pharisee we will not enter the kingdom of heaven. The Pharisee were the ones asking questions about whether or not someone masterbated, and they were the accusers who claimed that masturbation would keep someone out of Heaven.....NOT coming to Christ keeps you out of the kingdom of God.

Also, you view the scripture, "eat drink and be merry" through the lens of Mormonism as it was taught you. Actually, I know what I know by reading the Book of Mormon 21 times so far. After all, aren't we told to feast upon the word? The savior ate, drank, and socialized with the sinners......the difference was the attitude...the attitude that I can sin and cause myself pain and others and then not change my heart. It's not the outward man, it's the inward man....this time we are in is a time to prepare to meet god....to prepare the inward man. Nothing outward saves us. So when we also judge others, we condemn others for things outwardly when we don't really know their heart.

Btw, the word virtue does not mean what we teach it to mean at church. We are obsessed with sex and control in Mormonism. Study the word virtue in the dictionary, and then study every passage of scripture that contains the word "virtue" across all books of scripture. Virtue is an all encompassing quality...like the word integrity.....it's associated with a state of "being" that has to do with MANY different God-like qualities...which can include chastity, but is in no way ONLY about chasity. Our church has grossly misrepresented the word. They have also done this with the word "pure" and "purity". If you will look at lds.org and do a search of the word "virture" you will find nearly every single talk equates it with SEXUAL PURITY. It is a distortion of the scriptures and meaning. We should be ashamed of how we have distorted the divine beauty of sex in our culture. Look up Chastity in the topical guide as well....we have included scriptures in this section that have absolutely nothing to do with what god defines as virtuous and pure and used them to equate all meaning with chastity. We are obsessed as a culture with controlling sex, and how we view others through outward "appearance". It's why Elizabeth smart made her recent comments in the press. The church tries to pretend they haven't taught this culture, however, the way we define scripture and teach from conference talks clearly says otherwise.

Virtue
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/virtu ... g&letter=v

D&C 121:45
45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.

Pure
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/virtu ... g&letter=v

Matthew 5:8
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Eat, Drink and be merry TG Procrastination.

Isa. 22:13
13 And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.

This next verse is self explanatory as to what eat, drink and be merry refers to:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

How many members of the church try to justify committing a little sin and thinking God is okay with this?

Spotless
Here it looks like many words are synonymous with being as to what God expects...and that is to be perfect.

3 Nephi 12:48
48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.

Mormon 9:6
6 O then ye unbelieving, turn ye unto the Lord; cry mightily unto the Father in the name of Jesus, that perhaps ye may be found spotless, pure, fair, and white, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, at that great and last day.
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:29 pm

Obrien wrote:Listen, I do not condone or encourage people to sin. The whole key is to become a saint by accepting the atonement of Christ. I choose to focus on that concept, and you choose to focus on genitalia. Now you are reaching... :-?

The atonement is a great thing to focus on, true.
May a person focus on the atonement and expect salvation without repentance?
Is Christ okay with doing all the work while a person skates along with no real commitment?
Isn't by accepting the atonement one has to do all in their power to have it stay functional for them? Can one say they accept the atonement and still be happy to favor their favorite sin, whatever that may be...in general?
Honestly can one sit in a bar, get drunk and make a scene, watch half naked women dance around and still think they are saved because they accept the atonement, without repentance?

In other words, what does a person have to do, other than merely acknowledging the atonement, to cause the atonement to take affect in their life?

Here is a hint:
Doctrine and Covenants 1:31
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

I am not making up this stuff. It's in the book!
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:41 pm

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby zionminded » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:58 pm

I need to chime in here a bit.

My profession is a mental health counselor. So I know a bit about this subject.

MOST masturbation (MB) habits are normal, for teens or adults. Nearly all men have or will, and nearly all women do. Nearly 40 percent or so of aging adults do it (over 70).

Having said that, SOME of the time there is a problem. It can be problematic if the behavior interferes with your life, your relationships or your health. But there are situations where the rhetoric around it is worse. For example, MB causes you to be gay or MB leads to more sexual exploration in unhealthy ways. Both are proven false, many times over.

The problem comes in our church where sexuality is so taboo. It comes when we simply DO NOT talk about it at all. We only talk about the bad things and not the healthy things. The "don't touch it" message is not helpful. It is important for people to beable explore their own sexuality (in a healthy way). Your bishop may or may not be objective, and he likely has ZERO idea to identify MB habits related to anxiety, depression, social issues, sexual problems, and a LONG list of things that they will not understand.

I'm NOT saying, people should create habits that replace normal behaviors. Comorbid problems such as compulsive porn use can cause a great deal of harm in relationships and more.

Additionally, there are some HUGE HUGE spiritual things sexual replacements (such as MB), and INCLUDING many hetronormative sexual behaviors will LIMIT your spiritual growth if you don't address them. (Big topic here on that one).

Please PM me if you have question offline, or please, find a mental heath counselor to help you. (Note your bishop can and should counsel you on your spiritual journey in the church, but not your sexual journey or questions anymore than your Bishop would address physical health issues like blood pressure or financial issues like retirement investment)
#1 Lie - You are separate from God and others

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:44 pm

zionminded wrote:I need to chime in here a bit.

My profession is a mental health counselor. So I know a bit about this subject.

MOST masturbation (MB) habits are normal, for teens or adults. Nearly all men have or will, and nearly all women do. Nearly 40 percent or so of aging adults do it (over 70).

Having said that, SOME of the time there is a problem. It can be problematic if the behavior interferes with your life, your relationships or your health. But there are situations where the rhetoric around it is worse. For example, MB causes you to be gay or MB leads to more sexual exploration in unhealthy ways. Both are proven false, many times over.

The problem comes in our church where sexuality is so taboo. It comes when we simply DO NOT talk about it at all. We only talk about the bad things and not the healthy things. The "don't touch it" message is not helpful. It is important for people to beable explore their own sexuality (in a healthy way). Your bishop may or may not be objective, and he likely has ZERO idea to identify MB habits related to anxiety, depression, social issues, sexual problems, and a LONG list of things that they will not understand.

I'm NOT saying, people should create habits that replace normal behaviors. Comorbid problems such as compulsive porn use can cause a great deal of harm in relationships and more.

Additionally, there are some HUGE HUGE spiritual things sexual replacements (such as MB), and INCLUDING many hetronormative sexual behaviors will LIMIT your spiritual growth if you don't address them. (Big topic here on that one).

Please PM me if you have question offline, or please, find a mental heath counselor to help you. (Note your bishop can and should counsel you on your spiritual journey in the church, but not your sexual journey or questions anymore than your Bishop would address physical health issues like blood pressure or financial issues like retirement investment)

And I'm sure you learned all this from books in College and other studies except scripture. Since when does school studies supersede scriptural truth? To say that just because almost every person in society masturbates, it is considered normal. Do you see how ludicrous this sounds? This is like saying that inhaling water is normal. Most people die.
Why do people say they follow Christ, yet still normalize sin. The precepts of men say go ahead, it is normal. God says to be pure in heart, in mind and in action, to have virtue garnish our thoughts. Which one of these choices will bring us closer to God?
Is it school based concepts taught by mans own carnal nature, rather than God's word that will save mankind?

The goal is perfection, just what does this mean to you? There's a big difference between working to overcome a bad habit with lots of repentance along the way...and saying this habit is normal, not to worry about it. Ya, right!
Is it correct to not be addicted to some sin, and then tell others it is okay, just normal. Normal for whom?
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

User avatar
TrueIntent
captain of 100
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 10:34 am

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby TrueIntent » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:04 pm

freedomforall wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
Babies do it in the womb! Little children do it...then become teenagers and adults and still do it. You tell me....is it a sin? And if it is....what is the consequence and what should be their punishment? Also, to the "lust" part, who on the face of the planet hasn't lusted??????? Cast the first stone. I think a better question is, Robinhood, have you ever masterbated?

Maybe Robinhood won a spelling bee. :)) :)) :))

The goal set before us is to abhor sin, abhor evil, to seek to be pure in heart and mind, to have virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly. Those who are not are still in the natural man category. There is a difference between someone striving to be perfect and those who don't give it much thought. Those who list to follow the spirit, and those that do not. Those who lust and repent, make further mistakes, yet repent again and do their best...and those that say:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

BTW, babies and little children are not under the law, therefore, their activities as a point for immoral behavior is irrelevant. Good grief!



Right....u make my point. GOd will not justify in committing a little sin...which means we all must repent of our unworthiness...we all suck and fall short. Submitting the youth to these questions without acknowledgeing that the vast majority of members in the congregation have masturbated, and Lusted is hypocrisy,...we should reveal our own sins, and then show mercy, guidance, and love. No one gets saved without repenting and accessing grace....and alas, even murders and whores will be saved. The Savior said, u less we exceed the righteousness of the Pharisee we will not enter the kingdom of heaven. The Pharisee were the ones asking questions about whether or not someone masterbated, and they were the accusers who claimed that masturbation would keep someone out of Heaven.....NOT coming to Christ keeps you out of the kingdom of God.

Also, you view the scripture, "eat drink and be merry" through the lens of Mormonism as it was taught you. Actually, I know what I know by reading the Book of Mormon 21 times so far. After all, aren't we told to feast upon the word? The savior ate, drank, and socialized with the sinners......the difference was the attitude...the attitude that I can sin and cause myself pain and others and then not change my heart. It's not the outward man, it's the inward man....this time we are in is a time to prepare to meet god....to prepare the inward man. Nothing outward saves us. So when we also judge others, we condemn others for things outwardly when we don't really know their heart.

Btw, the word virtue does not mean what we teach it to mean at church. We are obsessed with sex and control in Mormonism. Study the word virtue in the dictionary, and then study every passage of scripture that contains the word "virtue" across all books of scripture. Virtue is an all encompassing quality...like the word integrity.....it's associated with a state of "being" that has to do with MANY different God-like qualities...which can include chastity, but is in no way ONLY about chasity. Our church has grossly misrepresented the word. They have also done this with the word "pure" and "purity". If you will look at lds.org and do a search of the word "virture" you will find nearly every single talk equates it with SEXUAL PURITY. It is a distortion of the scriptures and meaning. We should be ashamed of how we have distorted the divine beauty of sex in our culture. Look up Chastity in the topical guide as well....we have included scriptures in this section that have absolutely nothing to do with what god defines as virtuous and pure and used them to equate all meaning with chastity. We are obsessed as a culture with controlling sex, and how we view others through outward "appearance". It's why Elizabeth smart made her recent comments in the press. The church tries to pretend they haven't taught this culture, however, the way we define scripture and teach from conference talks clearly says otherwise.

Virtue
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/virtu ... g&letter=v

D&C 121:45
45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.

Pure
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/virtu ... g&letter=v

Matthew 5:8
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Eat, Drink and be merry TG Procrastination.

Isa. 22:13
13 And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.

This next verse is self explanatory as to what eat, drink and be merry refers to:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

How many members of the church try to justify committing a little sin and thinking God is okay with this?

Spotless
Here it looks like many words are synonymous with being as to what God expects...and that is to be perfect.

3 Nephi 12:48
48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.

Mormon 9:6
6 O then ye unbelieving, turn ye unto the Lord; cry mightily unto the Father in the name of Jesus, that perhaps ye may be found spotless, pure, fair, and white, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, at that great and last day.


Yeah virtue, spotless and pure do not mean what you think they mean. They have to do with all encompassing qualities. Read your scriptures....as long as you use the topical guide and lds.org as a shortcut you will always be ignorant of true meaning. Your choice.

User avatar
Rachael
Captain of whatever
Posts: 2370
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:36 pm

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Rachael » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:08 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote:Listen, I do not condone or encourage people to sin. The whole key is to become a saint by accepting the atonement of Christ. I choose to focus on that concept, and you choose to focus on genitalia. Now you are reaching... :-?

The atonement is a great thing to focus on, true.
May a person focus on the atonement and expect salvation without repentance?
Is Christ okay with doing all the work while a person skates along with no real commitment?
Isn't by accepting the atonement one has to do all in their power to have it stay functional for them? Can one say they accept the atonement and still be happy to favor their favorite sin, whatever that may be...in general?
Honestly can one sit in a bar, get drunk and make a scene, watch half naked women dance around and still think they are saved because they accept the atonement, without repentance?

In other words, what does a person have to do, other than merely acknowledging the atonement, to cause the atonement to take affect in their life?

Here is a hint:
Doctrine and Covenants 1:31
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

I am not making up this stuff. It's in the book!


You pit grace against works. Like pitting the book of James against the Pauline epistles. No one can attain perfection in this fleshly life, but by focusing on that only, thinking you can, can make one self righteous and phariseical. We have to rely on the Atonement and claim the righteousness of God. Even our best works are but filthy rags before God. So we bring Him our dirty laundry, because He is the only one that can wash them in His holy blood to become clean. That's what claiming the Righteousness of God means. Claiming it means you have faith in the Atonement, yet you will become so glad to receive this gift, you'll want to become a disciple of Christ.

Being meek, humble, unjudgemental, charitable, and asking forgiveness for our daily trespasses is the focus. Good works will naturally happen with that attitude.

You can busy yourself to exhaustion like Martha, or sit at the feet of Jesus which is the good part.
Luke 10:

Bible > KJV > Luke 10

◄ Luke 10 ►
38Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. 39And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. 40But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. 41And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: 42But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her."

Mormon Kid, don't let anyone take that good part away from you.
Last edited by Rachael on Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
TrueIntent
captain of 100
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 10:34 am

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby TrueIntent » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:09 pm

TrueIntent wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
freedomforall wrote:Maybe Robinhood won a spelling bee. :)) :)) :))

The goal set before us is to abhor sin, abhor evil, to seek to be pure in heart and mind, to have virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly. Those who are not are still in the natural man category. There is a difference between someone striving to be perfect and those who don't give it much thought. Those who list to follow the spirit, and those that do not. Those who lust and repent, make further mistakes, yet repent again and do their best...and those that say:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

BTW, babies and little children are not under the law, therefore, their activities as a point for immoral behavior is irrelevant. Good grief!



Right....u make my point. GOd will not justify in committing a little sin...which means we all must repent of our unworthiness...we all suck and fall short. Submitting the youth to these questions without acknowledgeing that the vast majority of members in the congregation have masturbated, and Lusted is hypocrisy,...we should reveal our own sins, and then show mercy, guidance, and love. No one gets saved without repenting and accessing grace....and alas, even murders and whores will be saved. The Savior said, u less we exceed the righteousness of the Pharisee we will not enter the kingdom of heaven. The Pharisee were the ones asking questions about whether or not someone masterbated, and they were the accusers who claimed that masturbation would keep someone out of Heaven.....NOT coming to Christ keeps you out of the kingdom of God.

Also, you view the scripture, "eat drink and be merry" through the lens of Mormonism as it was taught you. Actually, I know what I know by reading the Book of Mormon 21 times so far. After all, aren't we told to feast upon the word? Yeah, I'm not impressed cuz when you compare it across all books of scripture, the way you teach it contradicts other books. But you would only know that if you got off lds.org and read them as a little child. You are the blind leading the blind. the Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ...but not the way you teach and that's peopbably because like most Mormons, you don't know who Jesus is (I'm speaking from my own personal experience...I used to be like you.) The savior ate, drank, and socialized with the sinners......the difference was the attitude...the attitude that I can sin and cause myself pain and others and then not change my heart. It's not the outward man, it's the inward man....this time we are in is a time to prepare to meet god....to prepare the inward man. Nothing outward saves us. So when we also judge others, we condemn others for things outwardly when we don't really know their heart.

Btw, the word virtue does not mean what we teach it to mean at church. We are obsessed with sex and control in Mormonism. Study the word virtue in the dictionary, and then study every passage of scripture that contains the word "virtue" across all books of scripture. Virtue is an all encompassing quality...like the word integrity.....it's associated with a state of "being" that has to do with MANY different God-like qualities...which can include chastity, but is in no way ONLY about chasity. Our church has grossly misrepresented the word. They have also done this with the word "pure" and "purity". If you will look at lds.org and do a search of the word "virture" you will find nearly every single talk equates it with SEXUAL PURITY. It is a distortion of the scriptures and meaning. We should be ashamed of how we have distorted the divine beauty of sex in our culture. Look up Chastity in the topical guide as well....we have included scriptures in this section that have absolutely nothing to do with what god defines as virtuous and pure and used them to equate all meaning with chastity. We are obsessed as a culture with controlling sex, and how we view others through outward "appearance". It's why Elizabeth smart made her recent comments in the press. The church tries to pretend they haven't taught this culture, however, the way we define scripture and teach from conference talks clearly says otherwise.

Virtue
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/virtu ... g&letter=v

D&C 121:45
45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.

Pure
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/virtu ... g&letter=v

Matthew 5:8
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Eat, Drink and be merry TG Procrastination.

Isa. 22:13
13 And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.

This next verse is self explanatory as to what eat, drink and be merry refers to:

2 Nephi 28:8
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

How many members of the church try to justify committing a little sin and thinking God is okay with this?

Spotless
Here it looks like many words are synonymous with being as to what God expects...and that is to be perfect.

3 Nephi 12:48
48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.

Mormon 9:6
6 O then ye unbelieving, turn ye unto the Lord; cry mightily unto the Father in the name of Jesus, that perhaps ye may be found spotless, pure, fair, and white, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, at that great and last day.


Yeah virtue, spotless and pure do not mean what you think they mean. They have to do with all encompassing qualities. Read your scriptures....as long as you use the topical guide and lds.org as a shortcut you will always be ignorant of true meaning. Your choice.

User avatar
TrueIntent
captain of 100
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 10:34 am

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby TrueIntent » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:16 pm

Let me add....chastity is not the same thing as virtue or being pure in heart. Chastity can be included under the definition of these words, however they do not mean chastity. The church uses the term virtue and purity to define chastity.....this is inaccurate. You will have to study all books of scripture to comprehend this. When virtue went out of Christ when he healed the women with the issue of blood.....it wasn't his sexual purity.

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:52 pm

TrueIntent wrote:Yeah virtue, spotless and pure do not mean what you think they mean. They have to do with all encompassing qualities. Read your scriptures....as long as you use the topical guide and lds.org as a shortcut you will always be ignorant of true meaning. Your choice.

This, of course, is your own opinion. Read your scriptures and find out for yourself what the meanings are. The key to understanding scripture ...is to not wrest them.
Now that you have come out so boldly and insinuated that I am dumber than a bag of rocks, please enlighten us with you knowledge and wisdom. What are your sources for such claims. Are you even LDS?
What I have posted is true, no matter what you say against it. I have read the Book of Mormon at least 21 times. I think by now I know what I say.

So far, all you've been good at is trying to make yourself smarter than others, and no substance behind it. Do you know the old saying...put your money where your mouth is?

So please, guess again on your conclusions.
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:06 am

Rachael wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Obrien wrote:Listen, I do not condone or encourage people to sin. The whole key is to become a saint by accepting the atonement of Christ. I choose to focus on that concept, and you choose to focus on genitalia. Now you are reaching... :-?

The atonement is a great thing to focus on, true.
May a person focus on the atonement and expect salvation without repentance?
Is Christ okay with doing all the work while a person skates along with no real commitment?
Isn't by accepting the atonement one has to do all in their power to have it stay functional for them? Can one say they accept the atonement and still be happy to favor their favorite sin, whatever that may be...in general?
Honestly can one sit in a bar, get drunk and make a scene, watch half naked women dance around and still think they are saved because they accept the atonement, without repentance?

In other words, what does a person have to do, other than merely acknowledging the atonement, to cause the atonement to take affect in their life?

Here is a hint:
Doctrine and Covenants 1:31
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

I am not making up this stuff. It's in the book!


You pit grace against works. Like pitting the book of James against the Pauline epistles. No one can attain perfection in this fleshly life, but by focusing on that only, thinking you can, can make one self righteous and phariseical. We have to rely on the Atonement and claim the righteousness of God. Even our best works are but filthy rags before God. So we bring Him our dirty laundry, because He is the only one that can wash them in His holy blood to become clean. That's what claiming the Righteousness of God means. Claiming it means you have faith in the Atonement, yet you will become so glad to receive this gift, you'll want to become a disciple of Christ.

Being meek, humble, unjudgemental, charitable, and asking forgiveness for our daily trespasses is the focus. Good works will naturally happen with that attitude.

You can busy yourself to exhaustion like Martha, or sit at the feet of Jesus which is the good part.
Luke 10:

Bible > KJV > Luke 10

◄ Luke 10 ►
38Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. 39And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. 40But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. 41And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: 42But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her."

Mormon Kid, don't let anyone take that good part away from you.

Ah, Rachael, Rachael, I have posted this scripture ad nauseam: Moroni 10:32,33

This is how we can become perfect in this life. We can become perfect IN CHRIST. We repent and commit ourselves to serving him and keeping his commandments...and in return he takes our sins upon him, rendering us perfect...in him! Rather simple, isn't it? I guess I merely post that scripture just to see how many times I can post it. Just like scripture in general. very few read them, let alone understand their meaning.

Would you be so bold as to call Christ a liar? After all, it was a prophet of God that was instructed to write this little tidbit on the plates. Isn't it time to realize this fact? Or are they all just the arm of flesh, huh?
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:29 am

zionminded wrote:
BYULAWGUY wrote:
Serragon wrote:If you have truly forsaken the sin and confessed to the Lord, you don't need to confess to the Bishop.

If you are struggling and unable to forsake the sin, confession to the Bishop is probably necessary.


This is so wrong on so many levels.

To the kid that posted this, I have been a bishop. Most of the boys masturbate but most don't repent for it. Of all the sins that the youth confessed to me, I never once told their parents.


Repent for it?

Nobody is keeping score. Nobody but the person who is in guilt and shame cycles.

Real repentance is identifying the limiting belief or false belief and learning new and better ways of thinking and becoming like God.

Can a person who sins and does not forsake them become like God? This is a rather simple question.
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

User avatar
Melissa
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1744
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:28 am

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Melissa » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:30 am

freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:I need to chime in here a bit.

My profession is a mental health counselor. So I know a bit about this subject.

MOST masturbation (MB) habits are normal, for teens or adults. Nearly all men have or will, and nearly all women do. Nearly 40 percent or so of aging adults do it (over 70).

Having said that, SOME of the time there is a problem. It can be problematic if the behavior interferes with your life, your relationships or your health. But there are situations where the rhetoric around it is worse. For example, MB causes you to be gay or MB leads to more sexual exploration in unhealthy ways. Both are proven false, many times over.

The problem comes in our church where sexuality is so taboo. It comes when we simply DO NOT talk about it at all. We only talk about the bad things and not the healthy things. The "don't touch it" message is not helpful. It is important for people to beable explore their own sexuality (in a healthy way). Your bishop may or may not be objective, and he likely has ZERO idea to identify MB habits related to anxiety, depression, social issues, sexual problems, and a LONG list of things that they will not understand.

I'm NOT saying, people should create habits that replace normal behaviors. Comorbid problems such as compulsive porn use can cause a great deal of harm in relationships and more.

Additionally, there are some HUGE HUGE spiritual things sexual replacements (such as MB), and INCLUDING many hetronormative sexual behaviors will LIMIT your spiritual growth if you don't address them. (Big topic here on that one).

Please PM me if you have question offline, or please, find a mental heath counselor to help you. (Note your bishop can and should counsel you on your spiritual journey in the church, but not your sexual journey or questions anymore than your Bishop would address physical health issues like blood pressure or financial issues like retirement investment)

And I'm sure you learned all this from books in College and other studies except scripture. Since when does school studies supersede scriptural truth? To say that just because almost every person in society masturbates, it is considered normal. Do you see how ludicrous this sounds? This is like saying that inhaling water is normal. Most people die.
Why do people say they follow Christ, yet still normalize sin. The precepts of men say go ahead, it is normal. God says to be pure in heart, in mind and in action, to have virtue garnish our thoughts. Which one of these choices will bring us closer to God?
Is it school based concepts taught by mans own carnal nature, rather than God's word that will save mankind?

The goal is perfection, just what does this mean to you? There's a big difference between working to overcome a bad habit with lots of repentance along the way...and saying this habit is normal, not to worry about it. Ya, right!
Is it correct to not be addicted to some sin, and then tell others it is okay, just normal. Normal for whom?


You have a nice idea here and you are not wrong in that we need to be pure and strive for perfection etc.

Is a person who is depressed in sin because they don't allow God to heal them?

A woman with PTSD...is she in sin because she lacks faith to be set free from her fears and trauma?

The gospel is wonderful and God wants us to be perfect. There is also room for mental health professionals to speak truth too. There is so much that happens in this life that we need help with and understanding of. That is what the gospel doesnt do. It just says that we will be tried and tested and have challenges and weakneses, then it says to simply go to God and repent and he will make you whole.

The gospel doesn't help in areas that lots of people need help in. It's comforting to hear that something is normal, then you don't have to hate yourself over it and can improve. Many people kill themselves because of problems they feel lost and hopeless about. Mental health professionals and other professionals can and do help many people. (Bishops refer many members to counselors) There is room for both and if done correctly one can lead to the other and produce a pretty good healthy individual.

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:37 am

TrueIntent wrote:
braingrunt wrote:@TrueIntent
So, to get you to clarify the real thrust of your point, I will descend into the ridiculous:
So, are you saying that a person who has had cause to repent cannot recommend repentance?


Nope I am not saying that. I believe in repentance--- it's how we come to Christ. In fact, I would argue that many of the ways we are taught to "repent" in the church may keep us from coming to Christ. Sometimes we go beyond the mark. We should follow the spirit. The Pharisee held their children to standards and laws they were never able to keep themselves...instead of making it part of questions for a worthiness interview (and being hypocrites ourselves) we should just teach from the scriptures, focus on whether or not the behavior brings good fruits or bad fruits (which shame and guilt for something that infants do in the womb) is a bad fruit. Rather, is it an addictive behavior? We should teach that....let's not be hypocrites....seriously if we all had to put a scarlet letter on for the sins we committed and wore them around the sacrament building, we would be a lot more humble about whether or not the sin is as damning as we portray it. I actually believe we do more harm by casting judgements, rather than saying...oh probably 85 percent of the ward has touched themselves inapproprsitely or masturbated at some point....remember...if Christ is the perfect role model, if he is the way, sin, as defined under the law (rules of the Pharisees) is not always sin...look at Christ's apostles, and look at the Pharisees, the Pharisees were the religious elite who "claimed to follow the whole law" but inwardly we were vipers. Look at this way. What do you think Christ would say to this boy if he were to confess this sin to him? What would a Pharisee say to the boy? You have to come to know Christ to understand he wasn't as worried about the perceived sinners as he was about those who claimed to be the religious elite. It's the religious elite who never come to Christ because outwardly they keep the "commandments of men" but inwardly they were judgemental, liars, and hypocrites...they were the furthest from Christ, not the prostitutes, whores, and murders....The apostle Paul used to kill christians. Think about that.

Twissttedd. No one other than Christ has the job of allowing or disallowing sin. Who cares what the Pharisees did. They were not Jesus. Another point, they were under the law of Moses...a law that was fulfilled by Christ years ago. What they did or didn't do is a moot point. Sin is sin and Christ does not give it allowance in the least degree. Think about that.
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

User avatar
Melissa
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1744
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:28 am

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Melissa » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:53 am

God said be ye therefore perfect (knowing that we couldn't be) because it sure sounds better and more inspiring than be ye therfore mediocre.

To put the burden of perfection on imperfect flesh is tough. We need to be human and learn how to be human before we can ever become like a God.

Masturbation is normal and part of being HUMAN. Just because it's normal doesn't mean we should excuse it or say it's okay though. But to scold a young person for messing up and being "normal" Isint right either. We cannot expect a 13 year old boy or girl to have the maturity or intelligence of a grown married adult. They haven't learned the same things yet and are just starting to learn about sexuality and their body and how it functions etc.

We want to protect our kids and help them to be better than we were and there is nothing wrong in that desire but we cannot expect more of our children than they are capable of for the state they are in. They must learn for themselves.

You can't expect your 13 year old to think of sex like you do if you've been having it for at least as old as he is.

Just teach correct principles and give tons of love because they will mess up as they try to figure out how to be human.

Side note:

If this was a 13 year old girl, would our conversations change at all? Would we still recommend her to talk to her bishop? I'm not sure that is appropriate. Ahh, this brings up the thought that I wish bishop was a joint calling with his wife!

User avatar
Melissa
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1744
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:28 am

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby Melissa » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:55 am

freedomforall wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
braingrunt wrote:@TrueIntent
So, to get you to clarify the real thrust of your point, I will descend into the ridiculous:
So, are you saying that a person who has had cause to repent cannot recommend repentance?


Nope I am not saying that. I believe in repentance--- it's how we come to Christ. In fact, I would argue that many of the ways we are taught to "repent" in the church may keep us from coming to Christ. Sometimes we go beyond the mark. We should follow the spirit. The Pharisee held their children to standards and laws they were never able to keep themselves...instead of making it part of questions for a worthiness interview (and being hypocrites ourselves) we should just teach from the scriptures, focus on whether or not the behavior brings good fruits or bad fruits (which shame and guilt for something that infants do in the womb) is a bad fruit. Rather, is it an addictive behavior? We should teach that....let's not be hypocrites....seriously if we all had to put a scarlet letter on for the sins we committed and wore them around the sacrament building, we would be a lot more humble about whether or not the sin is as damning as we portray it. I actually believe we do more harm by casting judgements, rather than saying...oh probably 85 percent of the ward has touched themselves inapproprsitely or masturbated at some point....remember...if Christ is the perfect role model, if he is the way, sin, as defined under the law (rules of the Pharisees) is not always sin...look at Christ's apostles, and look at the Pharisees, the Pharisees were the religious elite who "claimed to follow the whole law" but inwardly we were vipers. Look at this way. What do you think Christ would say to this boy if he were to confess this sin to him? What would a Pharisee say to the boy? You have to come to know Christ to understand he wasn't as worried about the perceived sinners as he was about those who claimed to be the religious elite. It's the religious elite who never come to Christ because outwardly they keep the "commandments of men" but inwardly they were judgemental, liars, and hypocrites...they were the furthest from Christ, not the prostitutes, whores, and murders....The apostle Paul used to kill christians. Think about that.

Twissttedd. No one other than Christ has the job of allowing or disallowing sin. Who cares what the Pharisees did. They were not Jesus. Another point, they were under the law of Moses...a law that was fulfilled by Christ years ago. What they did or didn't do is a moot point. Sin is sin and Christ does not give it allowance in the least degree. Think about that.


I'm starting to think you are pretty harsh!

No one is debating whether or not we should become as righteous as we can.

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:58 am

Melissa wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:I need to chime in here a bit.

My profession is a mental health counselor. So I know a bit about this subject.

MOST masturbation (MB) habits are normal, for teens or adults. Nearly all men have or will, and nearly all women do. Nearly 40 percent or so of aging adults do it (over 70).

Having said that, SOME of the time there is a problem. It can be problematic if the behavior interferes with your life, your relationships or your health. But there are situations where the rhetoric around it is worse. For example, MB causes you to be gay or MB leads to more sexual exploration in unhealthy ways. Both are proven false, many times over.

The problem comes in our church where sexuality is so taboo. It comes when we simply DO NOT talk about it at all. We only talk about the bad things and not the healthy things. The "don't touch it" message is not helpful. It is important for people to beable explore their own sexuality (in a healthy way). Your bishop may or may not be objective, and he likely has ZERO idea to identify MB habits related to anxiety, depression, social issues, sexual problems, and a LONG list of things that they will not understand.

I'm NOT saying, people should create habits that replace normal behaviors. Comorbid problems such as compulsive porn use can cause a great deal of harm in relationships and more.

Additionally, there are some HUGE HUGE spiritual things sexual replacements (such as MB), and INCLUDING many hetronormative sexual behaviors will LIMIT your spiritual growth if you don't address them. (Big topic here on that one).

Please PM me if you have question offline, or please, find a mental heath counselor to help you. (Note your bishop can and should counsel you on your spiritual journey in the church, but not your sexual journey or questions anymore than your Bishop would address physical health issues like blood pressure or financial issues like retirement investment)

And I'm sure you learned all this from books in College and other studies except scripture. Since when does school studies supersede scriptural truth? To say that just because almost every person in society masturbates, it is considered normal. Do you see how ludicrous this sounds? This is like saying that inhaling water is normal. Most people die.
Why do people say they follow Christ, yet still normalize sin. The precepts of men say go ahead, it is normal. God says to be pure in heart, in mind and in action, to have virtue garnish our thoughts. Which one of these choices will bring us closer to God?
Is it school based concepts taught by mans own carnal nature, rather than God's word that will save mankind?

The goal is perfection, just what does this mean to you? There's a big difference between working to overcome a bad habit with lots of repentance along the way...and saying this habit is normal, not to worry about it. Ya, right!
Is it correct to not be addicted to some sin, and then tell others it is okay, just normal. Normal for whom?


You have a nice idea here and you are not wrong in that we need to be pure and strive for perfection etc.

Is a person who is depressed in sin because they don't allow God to heal them? Yes! A person, any person, no matter their state of mind...speaking of those who have all their faculties...can lend some humility, sincerity and contriteness and implore God for forgiveness. God being merciful can accept the slightest effort of repentance as long as it is with real intent and full purpose of heart as written.

A woman with PTSD...is she in sin because she lacks faith to be set free from her fears and trauma? Answered above.

The gospel is wonderful and God wants us to be perfect. There is also room for mental health professionals to speak truth too. There is so much that happens in this life that we need help with and understanding of. That is what the gospel doesnt do. This is one reason we're told to feast upon the word. Mere membership in the church does not save anyone, but is the beginning, a guidance, toward a path, even Christ in order to be saved. The key here is that we must participate in that path, there are no free rides. It just says that we will be tried and tested and have challenges and weakneses, then it says to simply go to God and repent and he will make you whole.

The gospel doesn't help in areas that lots of people need help in. The gospel is not the church, it is the scriptures, it is the "good news" by which we must learn through reading the scriptures. How many members go to church as a social gathering, giving no thought to reaching out to the Savior? It's comforting to hear that something is normal, then you don't have to hate yourself over it and can improve. Many people kill themselves because of problems they feel lost and hopeless about. Mental health professionals and other professionals can and do help many people. (Bishops refer many members to counselors) There is room for both and if done correctly one can lead to the other and produce a pretty good healthy individual.

A person going to a counselor that tells them masturbation is normal and okay...better run the opposite direction. Being told sin is okay is a good way to keep someone from repenting. A heck, everybody does it, it must be okay mentality.
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum 15000
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: OVER AND UNDER AND THROUGH THE WOODS

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby freedomforall » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:16 am

Melissa wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
TrueIntent wrote:
braingrunt wrote:@TrueIntent
So, to get you to clarify the real thrust of your point, I will descend into the ridiculous:
So, are you saying that a person who has had cause to repent cannot recommend repentance?


Nope I am not saying that. I believe in repentance--- it's how we come to Christ. In fact, I would argue that many of the ways we are taught to "repent" in the church may keep us from coming to Christ. Sometimes we go beyond the mark. We should follow the spirit. The Pharisee held their children to standards and laws they were never able to keep themselves...instead of making it part of questions for a worthiness interview (and being hypocrites ourselves) we should just teach from the scriptures, focus on whether or not the behavior brings good fruits or bad fruits (which shame and guilt for something that infants do in the womb) is a bad fruit. Rather, is it an addictive behavior? We should teach that....let's not be hypocrites....seriously if we all had to put a scarlet letter on for the sins we committed and wore them around the sacrament building, we would be a lot more humble about whether or not the sin is as damning as we portray it. I actually believe we do more harm by casting judgements, rather than saying...oh probably 85 percent of the ward has touched themselves inapproprsitely or masturbated at some point....remember...if Christ is the perfect role model, if he is the way, sin, as defined under the law (rules of the Pharisees) is not always sin...look at Christ's apostles, and look at the Pharisees, the Pharisees were the religious elite who "claimed to follow the whole law" but inwardly we were vipers. Look at this way. What do you think Christ would say to this boy if he were to confess this sin to him? What would a Pharisee say to the boy? You have to come to know Christ to understand he wasn't as worried about the perceived sinners as he was about those who claimed to be the religious elite. It's the religious elite who never come to Christ because outwardly they keep the "commandments of men" but inwardly they were judgemental, liars, and hypocrites...they were the furthest from Christ, not the prostitutes, whores, and murders....The apostle Paul used to kill christians. Think about that.

Twissttedd. No one other than Christ has the job of allowing or disallowing sin. Who cares what the Pharisees did. They were not Jesus. Another point, they were under the law of Moses...a law that was fulfilled by Christ years ago. What they did or didn't do is a moot point. Sin is sin and Christ does not give it allowance in the least degree. Think about that.


I'm starting to think you are pretty harsh!

No one is debating whether or not we should become as righteous as we can.

And I am getting fed up with people saying I do not know my scriptures. I know people sin and struggle to overcome, this is a fact of life for all humans wanting to change for the better.
However, it is sin to justify sin, to say it is okay. Scriptures are very plain in this regard. And for those that say we do not have to confess to those who preside over us is not based on scripture.

The good news is this:

Mosiah 26:29,30
29 Therefore I say unto you, Go; and whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.
30 Yea, and as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me.

And here is some good and bad news:

Helaman 13:11
11 But if ye will repent and return unto the Lord your God I will turn away mine anger, saith the Lord; yea, thus saith the Lord, blessed are they who will repent and turn unto me, but wo unto him that repenteth not.

There are plenty other scriptures but these are a beginning.

According to the statements in red above, do you still think I'm harsh...I mean really look at the philosophy behind the wording and see for yourself. If you concur with those statements, what can I say, huh?
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:41 pm

Re: Will my Bishop Tell My Parents

Postby zionminded » Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:52 am

freedomforall wrote:
zionminded wrote:
BYULAWGUY wrote:
Serragon wrote:If you have truly forsaken the sin and confessed to the Lord, you don't need to confess to the Bishop.

If you are struggling and unable to forsake the sin, confession to the Bishop is probably necessary.


This is so wrong on so many levels.

To the kid that posted this, I have been a bishop. Most of the boys masturbate but most don't repent for it. Of all the sins that the youth confessed to me, I never once told their parents.


Repent for it?

Nobody is keeping score. Nobody but the person who is in guilt and shame cycles.

Real repentance is identifying the limiting belief or false belief and learning new and better ways of thinking and becoming like God.

Can a person who sins and does not forsake them become like God? This is a rather simple question.


Depends on what you consider sin. Some sins we make up, other are very important.
#1 Lie - You are separate from God and others


Return to “Principles of Liberty”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests