10 dying symptoms of the Roman empire

[markharr]

I sometimes like to read listverse. I read this article this morning. It's amazing the United States is facing almost all of these same symptoms

10 Unclear Succession System: This one doesn't really apply.

9 Currency Debasement: Basically a series of roman emperors reduced the purity of the precious metal in roman coins from 91.8 percent during Nero's time to 58.3 percent by the time of Emporer Septimius Severus. We are debasing the value of the dollar by printing money.

8 Inflation: The consequences of #9


7 The Year Of The Four Emperors: Basically four emperors ruled in one year. For the United States I'm going to put this under weak ineffectual leadership.

6 Army’s Diminishing Returns: They expanded the empire to an area greater than they could maintain with their standing army. The army went from being offensive to defensive. This applies to the United States in that we had so many little wars in various parts of the word that its getting to be impossible to maintain it all. We still have troops in South Korea from a conflict we "won" over 60 years ago.

5 Barbarian Pressure: Illegal immigration, terrorism

4 Praetorian Guard Corruption: Politicization and corruption of almost every branch of government, and federal bureau. The FBI, IRS, Supreme court, Justice department, DHS, FCC, congress, executive branch, etc,etc

3 Concentration Of Wealth: only 5% of gains from the "economic recovery" filtered down past the top 1 percent.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... s-in-1989/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not saying we should force redistribution of wealth but in a righteous society that wealth would trickle down.

2 Size Of The Empire: The US is not empire building, but the size of our government is increasingly unsustainable

1 Romulus Augustulus Deposition: I'm going to put this one under has yet to happen.

article here.
http://listverse.com/2016/10/13/10-dyin ... an-empire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rewcox]

3 Concentration Of Wealth: only 5% of gains from the "economic recovery" filtered down past the top 1 percent.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... s-in-1989/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not saying we should force redistribution of wealth but in a righteous society that wealth would trickle down.

http://listverse.com/2016/10/13/10-dyin ... an-empire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree, it should be redistributed. That is what the Bishop does in the law of Consecration. Jesus is a democrat.

[Mark]

3 Concentration Of Wealth: only 5% of gains from the "economic recovery" filtered down past the top 1 percent.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... s-in-1989/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not saying we should force redistribution of wealth but in a righteous society that wealth would trickle down.

http://listverse.com/2016/10/13/10-dyin ... an-empire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree, it should be redistributed. That is what the Bishop does in the law of Consecration. Jesus is a democrat.

Did you just say that with a straight face?? =))

[David13]

3 Concentration Of Wealth: only 5% of gains from the "economic recovery" filtered down past the top 1 percent.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... s-in-1989/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not saying we should force redistribution of wealth but in a righteous society that wealth would trickle down.

http://listverse.com/2016/10/13/10-dyin ... an-empire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree, it should be redistributed. That is what the Bishop does in the law of Consecration. Jesus is a democrat.

Did you just say that with a straight face?? =))

It's the long hair and the beard. Rewcox thinks Jesus is a hippie.
dc

[markharr]

3 Concentration Of Wealth: only 5% of gains from the "economic recovery" filtered down past the top 1 percent.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... s-in-1989/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not saying we should force redistribution of wealth but in a righteous society that wealth would trickle down.

http://listverse.com/2016/10/13/10-dyin ... an-empire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree, it should be redistributed. That is what the Bishop does in the law of Consecration. Jesus is a democrat.

The law of Consecration is in harmony with free agency. You give all that you have of your own free will.

Wealth redistribution is not. It violates both free-agency, and the law of the harvest.

Wealth redistribution = Satans plan
Law of consecration = The saviors plan.

Get it?

[paulrobots]

3 Concentration Of Wealth: only 5% of gains from the "economic recovery" filtered down past the top 1 percent.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... s-in-1989/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not saying we should force redistribution of wealth but in a righteous society that wealth would trickle down.

http://listverse.com/2016/10/13/10-dyin ... an-empire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree, it should be redistributed. That is what the Bishop does in the law of Consecration. Jesus is a democrat.

Did you just say that with a straight face?? =))

At least we know Mary wasn't a democrat, she was pro-life.

[Col. Flagg]

Jesus is a democrat.

:-\ #-o :))

[inho]

The law of Consecration is in harmony with free agency. You give all that you have of your own free will.

Wealth redistribution is not. It violates both free-agency, and the law of the harvest.

Wealth redistribution = Satans plan
Law of consecration = The saviors plan.

Get it?

I'm not sure if I get it.
How do you see the role of a government and laws in general? I mean, the same logic could be applied to any law, such as:
thou shalt not steal = Savior's plan
punishing for stealing according to law = violating free agency = Satan's plan

It is clear that wealth redistribution is not the same as law of consecration, but I don't think it is Satan's plan either.

[markharr]

The law of Consecration is in harmony with free agency. You give all that you have of your own free will.

Wealth redistribution is not. It violates both free-agency, and the law of the harvest.

Wealth redistribution = Satans plan
Law of consecration = The saviors plan.

Get it?

I'm not sure if I get it.
How do you see the role of a government and laws in general? I mean, the same logic could be applied to any law, such as:
thou shalt not steal = Savior's plan
punishing for stealing according to law = violating free agency = Satan's plan

It is clear that wealth redistribution is not the same as law of consecration, but I don't think it is Satan's plan either.

stealing = wealth redistrubution

Both wealth redistribution and stealing are theft. Both are taking something that someone else worked for, or earned and giving it to someone else who didn't work for it or earn it. In both cases, there is a victim and there is someone who got something for nothing. Theft is a crime because there is a victim.

Under the law of consecration, all willingly give all that they have and are given according to their needs. In the scenario where we would be living the law of consecration, what we would all really be giving is our labor. There is no recipient of welfare. Some may give more than others, some may receive more than others based on their needs, but all give. There is no victim, and nobody is forced to do it. There would literally be no poor among us as in the city of Enoch.

And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them. Moses 7-18

Note how that scripture states that they were of one heart and one mind. You would never be able to achieve that under a wealth redistribution model because it is forced. Whenever you force things on people you cause resentment and create a greater rift between rich and poor as you see occurring in the United States now.


Wealth redistribution = no choice.
No choice = satan's plan
the law of consecration = choice
choice = the Savior's plan.

Almost any ideology in life can trace it roots back to that original disagreement between Lucifer and the Savior. Do we force people to do the right thing, or give them their free agency to choose for themselves? No matter how complex they try and make things, if you break it down it really is that black and white.

I stand by my original statement.

[inho]

I'm not sure if you got my point. Stealing was just an example. What I was trying to say is that any law or governmental action can be seen as a violation of free agency. If law has a punishment for a sin (such as stealing or murdering) is that taking away one's agency? According to your logic it seems to be so, since the main point of your argument is that wealth redistribution gives one no choice.

[Rachael]

Duplicate...

[markharr]

I'm not sure if you got my point. Stealing was just an example. What I was trying to say is that any law or governmental action can be seen as a violation of free agency. If law has a punishment for a sin (such as stealing or murdering) is that taking away one's agency? According to your logic it seems to be so, since the main point of your argument is that wealth redistribution gives one no choice.

I don't think you are getting my point. That isn't your fault I am not as eloquent as I would like to be.

I am going to simplify it as much as I can.

If there is a victim, or potential involved it is wrong. That is why we have commandments and laws.

If I rob a bank there is a victim. I am forcibly robbing someone of their wealth.

If I speed in my car, there may or may not be a victim involved but I am engaging in risky behavior that could kill someone.

If I go to Mary's house because I have determined that Mary has more than she needs, and I take her stuff and take it to Bob's house because I have determined that Bob doesn't have enough, there is a victim involved. Mary is the victim. She is actually victimized twice. First, because I stole her stuff. And secondly, because I stole her stuff and gave it to Bob making it look like I'm the person who was helping Bob out instead of Mary.

Now if Mary decides that she has more than she needs and willing gives some to Bob of her own free will, there is no victim there.

I'm glad this came up because it's almost Halloween, and Trick or treating is a perfect way to demonstrate what is wrong about wealth redistribution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQZNh-cUfd4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See how that works?

[Rachael]

I agree, it should be redistributed. That is what the Bishop does in the law of Consecration. Jesus is a democrat.

Did you just say that with a straight face?? =))

It's the long hair and the beard. Rewcox thinks Jesus is a hippie.
dc

Hmm...He didn't collect any money from the thousands He fed with a few loaves and fishes or those He healed. He had a kind of " free love" ideology, though without the sexual connotations. Anti establishment in a non aggressive way. Hitch hiked on other people's boats, and donkeys, and traveled a lot. Palm Sunday was a pretty big demonstration at the Capitol city. He drank wine, though no smoking weed, did LDS I suppose instead of LSD. Interesting comparison.

[David13]

Did you just say that with a straight face?? =))

It's the long hair and the beard. Rewcox thinks Jesus is a hippie.
dc

Hmm...He didn't collect any money from the thousands He fed with a few loaves and fishes or those He healed. He had a kind of " free love" ideology, though without the sexual connotations. Anti establishment in a non aggressive way. Hitch hiked on other people's boats, and donkeys, and traveled a lot. Palm Sunday was a pretty big demonstration at the Capitol city. He drank wine, though no smoking weed, did LDS I suppose instead of LSD. Interesting comparison.

I don't think there's any comparison, unless it's a superficial comparison, that is, long hair and a beard.
dc

[Rachael]

I'm not sure if you got my point. Stealing was just an example. What I was trying to say is that any law or governmental action can be seen as a violation of free agency. If law has a punishment for a sin (such as stealing or murdering) is that taking away one's agency? According to your logic it seems to be so, since the main point of your argument is that wealth redistribution gives one no choice.

I don't think you are getting my point. That isn't your fault I am not as eloquent as I would like to be.

I am going to simplify it as much as I can.

If there is a victim, or potential involved it is wrong. That is why we have commandments and laws.

If I rob a bank there is a victim. I am forcibly robbing someone of their wealth.

If I speed in my car, there may or may not be a victim involved but I am engaging in risky behavior that could kill someone.

If I go to Mary's house because I have determined that Mary has more than she needs, and I take her stuff and take it to Bob's house because I have determined that Bob doesn't have enough, there is a victim involved. Mary is the victim. She is actually victimized twice. First, because I stole her stuff. And secondly, because I stole her stuff and gave it to Bob making it look like I'm the person who was helping Bob out instead of Mary.

Now if Mary decides that she has more than she needs and willing gives some to Bob of her own free will, there is no victim there.

I'm glad this came up because it's almost Halloween, and Trick or treating is a perfect way to demonstrate what is wrong about wealth redistribution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQZNh-cUfd4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See how that works?

I see your point, Jesus wasn't Robin Hood, robbing from the rich and giving to the poor. He creates wealth. I guess so does capitalism in many ways. It also has Darwinistic elements. Socialism has Robin Hoodish elements, communism/fascism is just tyranny.

Both our candidates for president suck in different ways, but they have suckiness in common

[Rachael]

It's the long hair and the beard. Rewcox thinks Jesus is a hippie.
dc

Hmm...He didn't collect any money from the thousands He fed with a few loaves and fishes or those He healed. He had a kind of " free love" ideology, though without the sexual connotations. Anti establishment in a non aggressive way. Hitch hiked on other people's boats, and donkeys, and traveled a lot. Palm Sunday was a pretty big demonstration at the Capitol city. He drank wine, though no smoking weed, did LDS I suppose instead of LSD. Interesting comparison.

I don't think there's any comparison, unless it's a superficial comparison, that is, long hair and a beard.
dc

Ok, He didn't listen to the Beatles, or attend Woodstock.

[JK4Woods]

3 Concentration Of Wealth: only 5% of gains from the "economic recovery" filtered down past the top 1 percent.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... s-in-1989/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not saying we should force redistribution of wealth but in a righteous society that wealth would trickle down.

http://listverse.com/2016/10/13/10-dyin ... an-empire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree, it should be redistributed. That is what the Bishop does in the law of Consecration. Jesus is a democrat.

Jesus was a Carpenter. Manual labor and skilled craftmanship. Not a lawyer, or a politician.

[Rachael]

I missed the trickle down part earlier. But I did Ok during Reaganomics. Some didn't.

Christ made an honest living for sure.

[markharr]

I missed the trickle down part earlier. But I did Ok during Reaganomics. Some didn't.

Christ made an honest living for sure.

It doesn't work in wicked societies. The more wicked that you get the less it works.

No system of government can work under wickedness. They all collapse.

The fact that we have poverty and the fact that it's increasing is a symptom of wickedness, not proof that capitalism doesn't work.

Capitalism works very well in a righteous society.

[Army Of Truth]

I missed the trickle down part earlier. But I did Ok during Reaganomics. Some didn't.

Christ made an honest living for sure.

It doesn't work in wicked societies. The more wicked that you get the less it works.

No system of government can work under wickedness. They all collapse.

The fact that we have poverty and the fact that it's increasing is a symptom of wickedness, not proof that capitalism doesn't work.

Capitalism works very well in a righteous society.

Amen! Like John Adams said:

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

[larsenb]

I sometimes like to read listverse. I read this article this morning. It's amazing the United States is facing almost all of these same symptoms

10 Unclear Succession System: This one doesn't really apply.

9 Currency Debasement: Basically a series of roman emperors reduced the purity of the precious metal in roman coins from 91.8 percent during Nero's time to 58.3 percent by the time of Emporer Septimius Severus. We are debasing the value of the dollar by printing money.

8 Inflation: The consequences of #9


7 The Year Of The Four Emperors: Basically four emperors ruled in one year. For the United States I'm going to put this under weak ineffectual leadership.

6 Army’s Diminishing Returns: They expanded the empire to an area greater than they could maintain with their standing army. The army went from being offensive to defensive. This applies to the United States in that we had so many little wars in various parts of the word that its getting to be impossible to maintain it all. We still have troops in South Korea from a conflict we "won" over 60 years ago.

5 Barbarian Pressure: Illegal immigration, terrorism

4 Praetorian Guard Corruption: Politicization and corruption of almost every branch of government, and federal bureau. The FBI, IRS, Supreme court, Justice department, DHS, FCC, congress, executive branch, etc,etc

3 Concentration Of Wealth: only 5% of gains from the "economic recovery" filtered down past the top 1 percent.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... s-in-1989/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not saying we should force redistribution of wealth but in a righteous society that wealth would trickle down.

2 Size Of The Empire: The US is not empire building, but the size of our government is increasingly unsustainable

1 Romulus Augustulus Deposition: I'm going to put this one under has yet to happen.

article here.
http://listverse.com/2016/10/13/10-dyin ... an-empire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another biggee with the Roman empire was almost incessant internal conflict, with Emperors (East, west or more) being overthrown sometimes every year or two, and with the various factions fighting for control of the rest. This gains momentum after Marcus Aurelius (ref. How Rome Fell, by Adrian Goldsworth). This resulted in almost constant mini-Civil wars, and disrupted focus on their external enemies and borders.

[Vision]

I sometimes like to read listverse. I read this article this morning. It's amazing the United States is facing almost all of these same symptoms

10 Unclear Succession System: This one doesn't really apply.

9 Currency Debasement: Basically a series of roman emperors reduced the purity of the precious metal in roman coins from 91.8 percent during Nero's time to 58.3 percent by the time of Emporer Septimius Severus. We are debasing the value of the dollar by printing money.

8 Inflation: The consequences of #9


7 The Year Of The Four Emperors: Basically four emperors ruled in one year. For the United States I'm going to put this under weak ineffectual leadership.

6 Army’s Diminishing Returns: They expanded the empire to an area greater than they could maintain with their standing army. The army went from being offensive to defensive. This applies to the United States in that we had so many little wars in various parts of the word that its getting to be impossible to maintain it all. We still have troops in South Korea from a conflict we "won" over 60 years ago.

5 Barbarian Pressure: Illegal immigration, terrorism

4 Praetorian Guard Corruption: Politicization and corruption of almost every branch of government, and federal bureau. The FBI, IRS, Supreme court, Justice department, DHS, FCC, congress, executive branch, etc,etc

3 Concentration Of Wealth: only 5% of gains from the "economic recovery" filtered down past the top 1 percent.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... s-in-1989/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not saying we should force redistribution of wealth but in a righteous society that wealth would trickle down.

2 Size Of The Empire: The US is not empire building, but the size of our government is increasingly unsustainable

1 Romulus Augustulus Deposition: I'm going to put this one under has yet to happen.

article here.
http://listverse.com/2016/10/13/10-dyin ... an-empire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Where's the inflation from all the money printing?

[larsenb]

. . . Where's the inflation from all the money printing?

We've been exporting our inflation for the most part by being able to buy cheap goods manufactured over seas. One of the bennies of 'global' free trade.

[davedan]

1. Rome imported drugs via Silk Road contributing to idle poverty.
2. Rome encouraged sexual immorality of Pompeii contributing to illegitimate poverty.
3. Ceasers gained power promising social justice through socialism to deal with poverty (free bread and circus).
4. Rome maintained trade deficit with China.
5. Empire continued to expand to bring in gold tribute to supply bankrupt economy with liquidity.
6. Rome hired Barbarian Foederati to supply the Roman Legions with men.
7. Barbarian Foederati conducted an insurrection, killed Romulus Augustus, and divided the Empire.


What the US must do is fight poverty by a return to virtue encouraging self-reliance, observance of the Word of Wisdom and Law of Chastity.

Milwaukee Joseph Project

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... ph-project" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Benjamin_LK]

3 Concentration Of Wealth: only 5% of gains from the "economic recovery" filtered down past the top 1 percent.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... s-in-1989/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not saying we should force redistribution of wealth but in a righteous society that wealth would trickle down.

http://listverse.com/2016/10/13/10-dyin ... an-empire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree, it should be redistributed. That is what the Bishop does in the law of Consecration. Jesus is a democrat.

Nah, he is totally nonpartisan. AFAIK, he isn't going to care about parties at all, per se.