Occult arts still illegal in Canyonville

[Joel]

Occult arts still illegal in Canyonville

CANYONVILLE — A business owner’s wish to teach astrology resulted in people expressing their fears of satanism at a Canyonville City Council meeting Monday night.

More than half of the council chambers’ 24 available seats were filled with people speaking for or against repealing an ordinance prohibiting the practice of occult arts.

“I don’t think we have had this many people in a very long time,” city administrator Janelle Evans said of the meeting’s attendance.

The ordinance, enacted in 1982, prohibits fortunetelling, astrology, phrenology, palmistry, clairvoyance, mesmerism and spiritualism.

Councilors did not repeal the ordinance; instead, they voted to send it back to city staff for more research. Evans said it will have to go through a city attorney.

Elona Wong, owner of Elona’s Circle of Healing Arts in Canyonville, brought the ordinance to the council’s attention when she asked if she could begin teaching astrology and practicing tarot card reading.

“It seems a little antiquated,” Wong said. “It seems like all other cities in this county don’t have an ordinance like this.”

The issue touched a religious chord in the community of about 1,800 people. Members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church voiced their thoughts.

“I think if we open the door to occult arts, we’re bringing in something that could jeopardize our children,” church member Kelley Kolson said.

Like Kolson, some said that allowing the occult arts could lead to more sinister things beyond teaching astrology. Jim Garrett, of Canyonville, compared the occult arts to opening a “house of prostitution.”

“It probably would make a lot of money, but is it uplifting to the community?” he asked the council. “Does it any way represent what the community has stood for all these years? No, and neither does the occult.”

Dale Hitt, of Canyonville, added that the occult arts could lead to satanic rituals.

“If (repealing the ordinance) brings in occult practices, it will develop into satanism, which practices the skinning of cats or whatever,” Hitt said.

Hitt added that if citizens were to practice the occult arts under religious pretense, then it would be unconstitutional to disallow them to continue.

“What about if they want to sacrifice babies, too, Dale?” Garrett asked. “That’s a religion, too.”

Evans said she was unaware of the ordinance’s existence before Wong brought it to her attention. She found the ordinance under the consumer protection section of the city’s codes.

“I think the most important thing is to find out what was the intent (of the ordinance),” Evans said. “Were the councilors concerned about the money aspect of it, or were they concerned about the community or society? I think that will tell us where they were going with this.”

After the hearing, Wong said she was glad the councilors voted to send the ordinance back for a review by the city attorney.

“I’m pretty sure this ordinance is illegal,” she said.

[mes5464]

By that definition it would also make the priesthood and temple ceremonies illegal.

[David13]

By that definition it would also make the priesthood and temple ceremonies illegal.

No because they aren't done for money.
dc

[mes5464]

By that definition it would also make the priesthood and temple ceremonies illegal.

No because they aren't done for money.
dc

There is no mention of money in the op definition.

[jockeybox]

By that definition it would also make the priesthood and temple ceremonies illegal.

No because they aren't done for money.
dc

To be fair, one must pay tithing to the church in order to participate in the temple ceremony.

[David13]

By that definition it would also make the priesthood and temple ceremonies illegal.

No because they aren't done for money.
dc

To be fair, one must pay tithing to the church in order to participate in the temple ceremony.

Not true. You pay tithing without regard to your Temple recommend.
Or really any other particular feature of the church, don't you?
dc

[David13]

By that definition it would also make the priesthood and temple ceremonies illegal.

No because they aren't done for money.
dc

There is no mention of money in the op definition.

But what about the statute?
That is what controls the law in the city.
And will be used to assess Constitutionality.
dc

[mes5464]

But what about the statute?
That is what controls the law in the city.
And will be used to assess Constitutionality.
dc

I was comparing to the definition, not the statute.

[jockeybox]

By that definition it would also make the priesthood and temple ceremonies illegal.

No because they aren't done for money.
dc

To be fair, one must pay tithing to the church in order to participate in the temple ceremony.

Not true. You pay tithing without regard to your Temple recommend.
Or really any other particular feature of the church, don't you?
dc

Looks like a communication break down.
Let's try again.
Can one not pay tithing and enter the temple (without lying)?

[mes5464]

Looks like a communication break down.
Let's try again.
Can one not pay tithing and enter the temple (without lying)?

No. You have to be a full tithe payer to be worthy to enter the temple.

[David13]

No because they aren't done for money.
dc

To be fair, one must pay tithing to the church in order to participate in the temple ceremony.

Not true. You pay tithing without regard to your Temple recommend.
Or really any other particular feature of the church, don't you?
dc

Looks like a communication break down.
Let's try again.
Can one not pay tithing and enter the temple (without lying)?

No.
But when you pay your tithe you are not paying for a Temple recommend. It's more like a question of causation.
It's Temple worthiness that results in a Temple recommend.
Your payment is your belief in the scriptural proscription to pay a tithe.
From a Latin point of view, you could say it's not quid pro quo.
dc

[Joel]

From the point of view of government involvement I suppose I really do not care about people charging money for providing a service to those people that have a belief in supernatural stuff. Believers of the supernatural give money to organizations that they find are supportive of their belief system all the time. What bugs me is the city government getting involved in defining which supernatural beliefs should be prohibited and which ones can charge for their services. When it comes to people's deeply held beliefs I think the are very few circumstances where government needs to interfere. I have read even the LDS Church requires people in different countries to start paying tithing or at least pay a fast offering/donation in some places before they can get baptized (some sources: here, here, here, and here). However those in charge see fit to run things I feel they should be left alone from government involvement as much as possible in these types of matters.

[Ezra]

No because they aren't done for money.
dc

To be fair, one must pay tithing to the church in order to participate in the temple ceremony.

Not true. You pay tithing without regard to your Temple recommend.
Or really any other particular feature of the church, don't you?
dc

Looks like a communication break down.
Let's try again.
Can one not pay tithing and enter the temple (without lying)?

Sure you can. No money no tithing. Or you give directly to the poor/God . Either way you don't pay yet are still able to say yes your a full tith payer. It's all your own perspective anyways.

Most people say the follow the word of wisdom. Yet only a very very small amount actually do. It is almost impossible to follow the words of wisdom and buy your food from a supermarket.

You have to grow your own organic in its season.

But most don't really pay any attention to that at all. So they ignorantly say they do follow the wow.

The real question is does that their idea on if they are full tith payers or follow the wow make them unworthy due to ignorance or perspective?

[passionflower]

No because they aren't done for money.
dc

To be fair, one must pay tithing to the church in order to participate in the temple ceremony.

Not true. You pay tithing without regard to your Temple recommend.
Or really any other particular feature of the church, don't you?
dc

Looks like a communication break down.
Let's try again.
Can one not pay tithing and enter the temple (without lying)?

Generally speaking, yes. However there are exceptions ( last I knew ). My own mother, when she was widowed lived on a pension that was given by the dutch government. Later when her next husband died, she received a pension from this last husbands' place of employment. She was not required to pay tithing on this money she received. The apostle she asked called it "dead money". My mother held a temple recommend.

This occurred over 50-60 years ago, though.

[Obrien]

To be fair, one must pay tithing to the church in order to participate in the temple ceremony.

Not true. You pay tithing without regard to your Temple recommend.
Or really any other particular feature of the church, don't you?
dc

Looks like a communication break down.
Let's try again.
Can one not pay tithing and enter the temple (without lying)?

Generally speaking, yes. However there are exceptions ( last I knew ). My own mother, when she was widowed lived on a pension that was given by the dutch government. Later when her next husband died, she received a pension from this last husbands' place of employment. She was not required to pay tithing on this money she received. The apostle she asked called it "dead money". My mother held a temple recommend.

This occurred over 50-60 years ago, though.

50-60 years ago, I could believe this ^^^. These days, we are encouraged through church lessons and magazines to pay tithing before paying any other obligation (including food, utilities, rent etc).

[passionflower]

Not true. You pay tithing without regard to your Temple recommend.
Or really any other particular feature of the church, don't you?
dc

Looks like a communication break down.
Let's try again.
Can one not pay tithing and enter the temple (without lying)?

Generally speaking, yes. However there are exceptions ( last I knew ). My own mother, when she was widowed lived on a pension that was given by the dutch government. Later when her next husband died, she received a pension from this last husbands' place of employment. She was not required to pay tithing on this money she received. The apostle she asked called it "dead money". My mother held a temple recommend.

This occurred over 50-60 years ago, though.

50-60 years ago, I could believe this ^^^. These days, we are encouraged through church lessons and magazines to pay tithing before paying any other obligation (including food, utilities, rent etc).

Yeah, this was a long time ago ( it might actually been over 60 years), but my mother did gain permission from an apostle (wish I could remember who) to not pay tithing on this pension money she received. It isn't as if it was her own idea, or anything, though. And the bishop and SP issued her temple recommends for years under these circumstances ( they knew the apostle had OK'd it )

[Obrien]

Looks like a communication break down.
Let's try again.
Can one not pay tithing and enter the temple (without lying)?

Generally speaking, yes. However there are exceptions ( last I knew ). My own mother, when she was widowed lived on a pension that was given by the dutch government. Later when her next husband died, she received a pension from this last husbands' place of employment. She was not required to pay tithing on this money she received. The apostle she asked called it "dead money". My mother held a temple recommend.

This occurred over 50-60 years ago, though.

50-60 years ago, I could believe this ^^^. These days, we are encouraged through church lessons and magazines to pay tithing before paying any other obligation (including food, utilities, rent etc).

Yeah, this was a long time ago ( it might actually been over 60 years), but my mother did gain permission from an apostle (wish I could remember who) to not pay tithing on this pension money she received. It isn't as if it was her own idea, or anything, though. And the bishop and SP issued her temple recommends for years under these circumstances ( they knew the apostle had OK'd it )

Would it not be better to have a sweet confirmation of this from the Spirit?

[Vision]

Most people say the follow the word of wisdom. Yet only a very very small amount actually do. It is almost impossible to follow the words of wisdom and buy your food from a supermarket.

You have to grow your own organic in its season.

What?

[Ezra]

Most people say the follow the word of wisdom. Yet only a very very small amount actually do. It is almost impossible to follow the words of wisdom and buy your food from a supermarket.

You have to grow your own organic in its season.

What?

See what I mean. Most don't know the word of wisdom.

[Vision]

Most people say the follow the word of wisdom. Yet only a very very small amount actually do. It is almost impossible to follow the words of wisdom and buy your food from a supermarket.

You have to grow your own organic in its season.

What?

See what I mean. Most don't know the word of wisdom.

Ezra

I reread the WOW and still can't find the word organic in it?

[Ezra]

That would verse 4. The reason why we have the wow. Due to conspiring men. Gmo. Plus that God ordained the food for us. Meaning he designed it and in its natural state as he designed it is how he intended it for us.