The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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Separatist
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The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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Separatist
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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The new ‘restaurant math’ of Seattle’s $15 an hour minimum wage is starting to ‘break the system’

http://www.aei.org/publication/the-new- ... he-system/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Separatist
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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Silver
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Post by Silver »

That's a serious video. A real person with facts, not emotion.

A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, there was this war. One guy said he would control everything, EVERYTHING, and make us be good...

Minimum wage laws were introduced in the US in 1938 (much earlier elsewhere). 1938 falls within the period we affectionately call the Great Depression. That the actions of the elites via the Federal Reserve System were the cause of the Depression are beyond debate now, but let's just keep on allowing the foxes to guard the hen house anyway. So the federal gubmint has been fighting poverty since 1938. Ask yourself if there is more or less poverty now compared to then.

Then a murderer named Lyndon B. Johnson took the white House and declared the War on Poverty. The struggle against poverty went from mere skirmishes to a full-blown war. War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on Terror...how we doing? Winning much lately?

We couldn't beat the impoverished country on North Korea.
We couldn't beat the backward nation of North Vietnam.
We can't beat the Taliban.
We can't stop ISIS.
But we're going to give it our best shot over the next several decades, providing our youth with a chance to "see the world" (or, in real English, get killed or maimed, or witness scenes that cause many to commit suicide). Or, our youth can stay home and get paid a minimum wage, the amount of which is decided by the elites because they know what is best for us.

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Separatist
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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Silver wrote: Ask yourself if there is more or less poverty now compared to then.
I'd say less, and much so. Would you rather be poor back then or now? The poor now have cars, cell phones, central heating and air, refrigeration, flat screens etc. The standard of living is much better now then when I was growing up in the 70's/80's. And this is so despite government intervention.

Silver
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Post by Silver »

Separatist wrote:
Silver wrote: Ask yourself if there is more or less poverty now compared to then.
I'd say less, and much so. Would you rather be poor back then or now? The poor now have cars, cell phones, central heating and air, refrigeration, flat screens etc. The standard of living is much better now then when I was growing up in the 70's/80's. And this is so despite government intervention.
Except that now the poor have those things because the government takes from taxpayers to support those who qualify for welfare. That sort of charity is what Lucifer proposed. Plus, it's a bit anachronistic to bring air conditioning into a comparison to the 1930's. As for the standard of living improvements, $19Trillion in debt will buy a lot of cool gadgets. I feel poor and poorly every time I think about that number.

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Separatist
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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People don't have those things because of charity. They have them because the market has made them available at affordable prices on a mass scale. People don't have to work as long to purchase the same type of items years ago.

http://cafehayek.com/2013/01/cataloging ... -2013.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.aei.org/publication/data-re ... nt-page-1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We work less hours, have shorter work weeks and more leisure than ever before. I know nobody who would like to go back to the standard of living in the 70s or 50s. You'd be the first. I agree that gov't is out of control and is basically trying to ruin everything.

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Separatist
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David13
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Post by David13 »

Magic boats. I like that, good for a laugh. But it's sad, really.
The idiots think they are "fixing" something, or "helping" someone, and being "fair".
And they never do look at the real consequences. The real thing they did. What the effect really was. It's just stupidity in action.
And the politicians are just pimps. Procurers. They get them whatever illogical thing they want. Without regard to consequence.
dc

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Separatist
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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A minimum wage thought experiment: What if employers responded with a 2-year minimum work experience requirement?
http://www.aei.org/publication/a-minimu ... quirement/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here’s a minimum wage thought experiment.

1. Suppose that a $15 an hour minimum wage is imposed on employers by government mandate.

2. In response to the $15 an hour minimum wage legislation, suppose that most employers then impose a 2-year minimum work experience requirement for new employees, to more closely match the higher productivity of more experienced workers to the new higher mandated wage.

Q: How would the employer practice of a 2-year minimum work experience requirement in response to a $15 an hour minimum wage affect employment opportunities for unskilled and limited-experience workers?

A: The answer should be self-explanatory and obvious, and perfectly consistent with the economic reality of what will inevitably actually happen as a result of the $15 an hour minimum wage laws being phased in around the country in Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco, California and New York, and being considered in many other cites and states throughout the land.

As Milton Friedman explained it many years ago, “The minimum wage law is most properly described as a law saying that employers must discriminate against people who have low skills.”

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Post by Silver »

If employers implemented a 2-year minimum work experience requirement, they would hire more seniors who are tired of eating cans of tuna, but who cannot get motivated enough to leave the house for $8/hr. This would leave the youth, the very cohort which needs the experience provided only by a low-paying job, without employment.

It's called the anti-Midas touch. Everything the gubmint touches turns into the opposite of gold.

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Separatist
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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Wendy’s Serves Up Big Kiosk Expansion As Wage Hikes Hit Fast Food

http://www.investors.com/politics/polic ... ood-group/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Sirocco
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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Separatist wrote:
Silver wrote: Ask yourself if there is more or less poverty now compared to then.
I'd say less, and much so. Would you rather be poor back then or now? The poor now have cars, cell phones, central heating and air, refrigeration, flat screens etc. The standard of living is much better now then when I was growing up in the 70's/80's. And this is so despite government intervention.
Okay since I assume I qualify as poor as I am on disability, I don't have a car, a smartphone (mine is an old style from the early 2000s, got it on a local buy/sell site), don't have central heating or air, heating in my place is... well it can't handle our winters too too well, I do have a fridge, I don't have tv but I do have the internet.
A lot of those things however are done in such a way where anyone can afford them, example with smart phones.
A popular deal is a free phone with a 2 year contract with a company, for example.
I don't do that, too costly in the long run.

To be fair if I lived in the 70s or 80s I think I'd be happier as a person as I might have had a better chance for community or meeting others.
Ultimately if the min wage was raised, things around it would be raised, it would be meaningless, the bigger issue is the other jobs vanishing to the point where these min wage jobs are all that is out there.
I think such problems are most felt in smaller places, like if these are the only businesses left, the town will shrink and die as anyone with any skill leaves for the city and no one who stays will be able to afford the houses and the tax base shrinks and the town spirals out of control.
I see it happening in the place my mother lives.
A min wage raise wouldn't fix the core problems that place has.

Silver
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Post by Silver »

The poor/rich issue for me has more to do with net wealth than the luxuries with which we surround ourselves. Life in the US for the average person is currently comprised of a long list of excellent conveniences. Most people would not want to return to the lifestyles of the 70s. However, at what cost have we achieved these things? The answer is: at an unfathomable cost of $19 Trillion plus many multiples of that in unfunded liabilities. Through the power of the ballot box, we have voted for each of us to be debt slaves. We owe more than we can ever pay back. This debt will cause us great hardship, I believe, sooner rather than later.

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David13
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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Ajax
A video featuring that horrid woman. I don't even want to watch it, thanks anyway.
However, I did want to say about the initial post, as I previously did, love those Magic Boats. Those really get at the thinking of these people. They think they can magically "fix" things. When they don't even realize what the issue is.
dc

dauser
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Post by dauser »

Government makes the sun rise in the morning, government can raise the standard of living.

Wealth and abundance for everyone are just waiting for the wage control laws to be passed AND INFORCED!

The third world, if they have the will, can simply legislate themselves out of poverty and into prosperity with minimum wage laws, more free lunch, free phones, free insurance and free education.

Paying people not to work stimulates production and the economy. The third world just needs more college graduates to pass and enforce laws.

Laws are the motivation and economic engines that drives a prosperous economy.

Every law must have a penalty...make the penalties hurt those greedy, selfish employers.

Employers need to feel the pain.

The third world just has law deficiencies, and too many greedy businesses trying to make a buck off the poor and ignorant.

The rich are eating all the pie and the poor are eating crumbs.

The third world just needs more government, more powerful government to force the haves to share with the have nots.

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Robin Hood
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Post by Robin Hood »

Minimum wage legislation has proved to be reasonably successful here in the UK.
It's a relatively recent thing for us. When parliament were debating it, one of the arguments made in it's support was the fact that even the US has a minimum wage.

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ajax
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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David13 wrote:Ajax
A video featuring that horrid woman. I don't even want to watch it, thanks anyway.
Watch it. You'll like it.

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gclayjr
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Post by gclayjr »

I worked in automation most of my career, before I retired. One thing I did many times, was to study a situation, prepare an automation solution, then write a proposal. for automating it, with a cost justification.

99% of the time.... no maybe 100% of the time, the primary cost justification for any project I did, was head count reduction. This was back in the day when most factories had unionized labor.

Raise the wages, and those of us who are in automation, will get more business.

By the way, one thing that most people don't understand. Yes, it is true that there are many fewer manufacturing jobs here in the US, than there used to be. Where did most of them go? China?, India? Mexico? Guatemala? .....

No, most of them were automated. I remember working on HMI's and control interfaces for machines that would, with the help of our control systems, do the work of a hundred operators, and be run by 3 or 4 people.

Not only that, we designed the interfaces to be able to be run by "Chimpanzees". I remember an article written by an economist where he opined, who was more productive, had more skills, and got paid more, a man with a shovel digging a ditch, or a man operating a backhoe. I wrote to him and stated that his example might be true, but a more prescient example is who is more productive and got paid more, a welder or a welding machine operator (in a factory)? The answer is that being a welder pays, more and requires more skills, but the welding machine operator is many times more productive, but with the automation interfaces, it does not take that much skill to run a welding machine, and therefor, a welding machine operator is paid much LESS than a welder... if he can find a job.

Regards,

George Clay

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gclayjr
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Post by gclayjr »

Robin Hood,
Minimum wage legislation has proved to be reasonably successful here in the UK.
It's a relatively recent thing for us. When parliament were debating it, one of the arguments made in it's support was the fact that even the US has a minimum wage.
No, I guess you had more powerful unions than we did, to do the job for you. I love cars, and build steam engines as a hobby. Britain used to be the home of high quality, skilled trades. British craftsmanship was admired the world over. The key word here is "WAS". Due to the labor strife, both post WW2, and in the 1970's, British manufacturing became only a small shell of what it used to be, and not much of anybody even recollects that in days past, something made in Britain, was of the best quality.

And nobody remembers British Leyland Motors either.

Regards,

George Clay

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ajax
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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http://www.aei.org/publication/some-sat ... ng-spikes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Perhaps one of the more interesting data points from yesterday’s Employment Report is displayed in the graph above, which shows that the jobless rate for black male teens (aged 16-19 years) increased to 40.1% in June from 28.1% in May. Except for a slightly higher increase of 12.2 percentage points during the aftermath of the Great Recession, the 12 percentage point increase in June was the highest monthly increase in history going back to 1972 when the BLS starting keeping records for this series. One possible explanation for this spike would be the “midyear burst of minimum-wage increases on July 1” outlined in a recent WSJ article:
On July 1, 14 U.S. cities, states and counties, plus the District of Columbia, will raise their minimum wage in a mid-year burst that reflects the legislative momentum to boost pay floors across the country while federal legislation stalls. In total, the minimum wage will rise in 15 places: two states – Maryland and Oregon, plus Washington, D.C., Los Angeles County, Calif., and 11 cities. That includes Chicago, eight cities in California and two in Kentucky, according to a new analysis by the right-leaning Employment Policies Institute.
As we learned from Milton Friedman many years ago:
The minimum wage law is most properly described as a law saying that employers must discriminate against people who have low skills. That’s what the law says. The law says that here’s a man who has a skill that would justify a wage of $5 or $6 per hour (adjusted for today), but you may not employ him, it’s illegal, because if you employ him you must pay him $7.25 per hour. So what’s the result? To employ him at $7.25 per hour is to engage in charity. There’s nothing wrong with charity. But most employers are not in the position to engage in that kind of charity. Thus, the consequences of minimum wage laws have been almost wholly bad. We have increased unemployment and increased poverty.

Moreover, the effects have been concentrated on the groups that the do-gooders would most like to help. The people who have been hurt most by the minimum wage laws are the blacks. I have often said that the most anti-black law on the books of this land is the minimum wage law.

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Obrien
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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ajax wrote:
David13 wrote:Ajax
A video featuring that horrid woman. I don't even want to watch it, thanks anyway.
Watch it. You'll like it.
[Insert Obrien's favorite curse word here] man! Did the interviewer get arrested?

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David13
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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I couldn't watch the entire interview with that stinking weasel. So I don't know where he went with it, but I could see where it was going.
But, in a sense, she does have a point. They are doing that as part of a school educational project. Much the same as any college student working with a prof where they do all kinds of personal favors for him and all that, and get a better grade, and learn a lot more about the subject. A lot of them become real buddies with the prof and even go out drinking and all.
AND, they are paying tuition for all that.
So that's a minor point. A bigger point is, what companies does she, her husband and her extended family own that resulted from her work in government, what do they pay? Well, we will never know, because she has that all hidden, and you can be sure they are laying off like crazy and only hiring part time to avoid it like any other business has to do to stay in business.
The whole baloney about a minimum wage is only show dressing for these slick politicians to get votes. It's never anything that will actually benefit anyone. In fact, usually these schemes to get votes HURT those they are supposedly intended to help.
More people have lost their job or been cut back to part time due to the law than will ever benefit from it. And none of these greasy politicians will EVER look back to study that.
But they will keep boasting about it for years, how they HELPED, when they did no such thing.
dc
Last edited by David13 on August 24th, 2016, 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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Minimum wage effect? DC restaurants lost more jobs since January than any 6-month period since 2001
http://www.aei.org/publication/minimum- ... ince-2001/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Climbing Minimum Wage Forces Popular Chicago Restaurant to Close
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/20 ... pular.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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