The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

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The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Separatist » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:23 am

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http://www.aei.org/publication/cartoon- ... oons-ever/
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Separatist » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:25 am

The new ‘restaurant math’ of Seattle’s $15 an hour minimum wage is starting to ‘break the system’

http://www.aei.org/publication/the-new- ... he-system/
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Separatist » Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:05 am

"The love of liberty is the love of others; the love of power is the love of ourselves. We cannot force love" --William Hazlitt

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Silver » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:59 am

That's a serious video. A real person with facts, not emotion.

A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, there was this war. One guy said he would control everything, EVERYTHING, and make us be good...

Minimum wage laws were introduced in the US in 1938 (much earlier elsewhere). 1938 falls within the period we affectionately call the Great Depression. That the actions of the elites via the Federal Reserve System were the cause of the Depression are beyond debate now, but let's just keep on allowing the foxes to guard the hen house anyway. So the federal gubmint has been fighting poverty since 1938. Ask yourself if there is more or less poverty now compared to then.

Then a murderer named Lyndon B. Johnson took the white House and declared the War on Poverty. The struggle against poverty went from mere skirmishes to a full-blown war. War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on Terror...how we doing? Winning much lately?

We couldn't beat the impoverished country on North Korea.
We couldn't beat the backward nation of North Vietnam.
We can't beat the Taliban.
We can't stop ISIS.
But we're going to give it our best shot over the next several decades, providing our youth with a chance to "see the world" (or, in real English, get killed or maimed, or witness scenes that cause many to commit suicide). Or, our youth can stay home and get paid a minimum wage, the amount of which is decided by the elites because they know what is best for us.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Separatist » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:16 pm

Silver wrote: Ask yourself if there is more or less poverty now compared to then.


I'd say less, and much so. Would you rather be poor back then or now? The poor now have cars, cell phones, central heating and air, refrigeration, flat screens etc. The standard of living is much better now then when I was growing up in the 70's/80's. And this is so despite government intervention.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Silver » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:45 pm

Separatist wrote:
Silver wrote: Ask yourself if there is more or less poverty now compared to then.


I'd say less, and much so. Would you rather be poor back then or now? The poor now have cars, cell phones, central heating and air, refrigeration, flat screens etc. The standard of living is much better now then when I was growing up in the 70's/80's. And this is so despite government intervention.


Except that now the poor have those things because the government takes from taxpayers to support those who qualify for welfare. That sort of charity is what Lucifer proposed. Plus, it's a bit anachronistic to bring air conditioning into a comparison to the 1930's. As for the standard of living improvements, $19Trillion in debt will buy a lot of cool gadgets. I feel poor and poorly every time I think about that number.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Separatist » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:01 pm

People don't have those things because of charity. They have them because the market has made them available at affordable prices on a mass scale. People don't have to work as long to purchase the same type of items years ago.

http://cafehayek.com/2013/01/cataloging ... -2013.html

https://www.aei.org/publication/data-re ... nt-page-1/

We work less hours, have shorter work weeks and more leisure than ever before. I know nobody who would like to go back to the standard of living in the 70s or 50s. You'd be the first. I agree that gov't is out of control and is basically trying to ruin everything.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Separatist » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:35 pm

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby David13 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:46 pm

Magic boats. I like that, good for a laugh. But it's sad, really.
The idiots think they are "fixing" something, or "helping" someone, and being "fair".
And they never do look at the real consequences. The real thing they did. What the effect really was. It's just stupidity in action.
And the politicians are just pimps. Procurers. They get them whatever illogical thing they want. Without regard to consequence.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Separatist » Tue May 03, 2016 7:17 am

A minimum wage thought experiment: What if employers responded with a 2-year minimum work experience requirement?
http://www.aei.org/publication/a-minimu ... quirement/

Here’s a minimum wage thought experiment.

1. Suppose that a $15 an hour minimum wage is imposed on employers by government mandate.

2. In response to the $15 an hour minimum wage legislation, suppose that most employers then impose a 2-year minimum work experience requirement for new employees, to more closely match the higher productivity of more experienced workers to the new higher mandated wage.

Q: How would the employer practice of a 2-year minimum work experience requirement in response to a $15 an hour minimum wage affect employment opportunities for unskilled and limited-experience workers?

A: The answer should be self-explanatory and obvious, and perfectly consistent with the economic reality of what will inevitably actually happen as a result of the $15 an hour minimum wage laws being phased in around the country in Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco, California and New York, and being considered in many other cites and states throughout the land.

As Milton Friedman explained it many years ago, “The minimum wage law is most properly described as a law saying that employers must discriminate against people who have low skills.”
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Silver » Tue May 03, 2016 1:24 pm

If employers implemented a 2-year minimum work experience requirement, they would hire more seniors who are tired of eating cans of tuna, but who cannot get motivated enough to leave the house for $8/hr. This would leave the youth, the very cohort which needs the experience provided only by a low-paying job, without employment.

It's called the anti-Midas touch. Everything the gubmint touches turns into the opposite of gold.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Separatist » Thu May 12, 2016 6:35 pm

Wendy’s Serves Up Big Kiosk Expansion As Wage Hikes Hit Fast Food

http://www.investors.com/politics/polic ... ood-group/
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Sirocco » Thu May 12, 2016 11:05 pm

Separatist wrote:
Silver wrote: Ask yourself if there is more or less poverty now compared to then.


I'd say less, and much so. Would you rather be poor back then or now? The poor now have cars, cell phones, central heating and air, refrigeration, flat screens etc. The standard of living is much better now then when I was growing up in the 70's/80's. And this is so despite government intervention.


Okay since I assume I qualify as poor as I am on disability, I don't have a car, a smartphone (mine is an old style from the early 2000s, got it on a local buy/sell site), don't have central heating or air, heating in my place is... well it can't handle our winters too too well, I do have a fridge, I don't have tv but I do have the internet.
A lot of those things however are done in such a way where anyone can afford them, example with smart phones.
A popular deal is a free phone with a 2 year contract with a company, for example.
I don't do that, too costly in the long run.

To be fair if I lived in the 70s or 80s I think I'd be happier as a person as I might have had a better chance for community or meeting others.
Ultimately if the min wage was raised, things around it would be raised, it would be meaningless, the bigger issue is the other jobs vanishing to the point where these min wage jobs are all that is out there.
I think such problems are most felt in smaller places, like if these are the only businesses left, the town will shrink and die as anyone with any skill leaves for the city and no one who stays will be able to afford the houses and the tax base shrinks and the town spirals out of control.
I see it happening in the place my mother lives.
A min wage raise wouldn't fix the core problems that place has.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Silver » Fri May 13, 2016 4:34 am

The poor/rich issue for me has more to do with net wealth than the luxuries with which we surround ourselves. Life in the US for the average person is currently comprised of a long list of excellent conveniences. Most people would not want to return to the lifestyles of the 70s. However, at what cost have we achieved these things? The answer is: at an unfathomable cost of $19 Trillion plus many multiples of that in unfunded liabilities. Through the power of the ballot box, we have voted for each of us to be debt slaves. We owe more than we can ever pay back. This debt will cause us great hardship, I believe, sooner rather than later.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby ajax » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:02 pm

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby David13 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:35 pm

Ajax
A video featuring that horrid woman. I don't even want to watch it, thanks anyway.
However, I did want to say about the initial post, as I previously did, love those Magic Boats. Those really get at the thinking of these people. They think they can magically "fix" things. When they don't even realize what the issue is.
dc

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby dauser » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:53 pm

Government makes the sun rise in the morning, government can raise the standard of living.

Wealth and abundance for everyone are just waiting for the wage control laws to be passed AND INFORCED!

The third world, if they have the will, can simply legislate themselves out of poverty and into prosperity with minimum wage laws, more free lunch, free phones, free insurance and free education.

Paying people not to work stimulates production and the economy. The third world just needs more college graduates to pass and enforce laws.

Laws are the motivation and economic engines that drives a prosperous economy.

Every law must have a penalty...make the penalties hurt those greedy, selfish employers.

Employers need to feel the pain.

The third world just has law deficiencies, and too many greedy businesses trying to make a buck off the poor and ignorant.

The rich are eating all the pie and the poor are eating crumbs.

The third world just needs more government, more powerful government to force the haves to share with the have nots.

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Robin Hood » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:01 pm

Minimum wage legislation has proved to be reasonably successful here in the UK.
It's a relatively recent thing for us. When parliament were debating it, one of the arguments made in it's support was the fact that even the US has a minimum wage.

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby ajax » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:07 am

David13 wrote:Ajax
A video featuring that horrid woman. I don't even want to watch it, thanks anyway.


Watch it. You'll like it.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby gclayjr » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:13 am

I worked in automation most of my career, before I retired. One thing I did many times, was to study a situation, prepare an automation solution, then write a proposal. for automating it, with a cost justification.

99% of the time.... no maybe 100% of the time, the primary cost justification for any project I did, was head count reduction. This was back in the day when most factories had unionized labor.

Raise the wages, and those of us who are in automation, will get more business.

By the way, one thing that most people don't understand. Yes, it is true that there are many fewer manufacturing jobs here in the US, than there used to be. Where did most of them go? China?, India? Mexico? Guatemala? .....

No, most of them were automated. I remember working on HMI's and control interfaces for machines that would, with the help of our control systems, do the work of a hundred operators, and be run by 3 or 4 people.

Not only that, we designed the interfaces to be able to be run by "Chimpanzees". I remember an article written by an economist where he opined, who was more productive, had more skills, and got paid more, a man with a shovel digging a ditch, or a man operating a backhoe. I wrote to him and stated that his example might be true, but a more prescient example is who is more productive and got paid more, a welder or a welding machine operator (in a factory)? The answer is that being a welder pays, more and requires more skills, but the welding machine operator is many times more productive, but with the automation interfaces, it does not take that much skill to run a welding machine, and therefor, a welding machine operator is paid much LESS than a welder... if he can find a job.

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby gclayjr » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:38 am

Robin Hood,

Minimum wage legislation has proved to be reasonably successful here in the UK.
It's a relatively recent thing for us. When parliament were debating it, one of the arguments made in it's support was the fact that even the US has a minimum wage.


No, I guess you had more powerful unions than we did, to do the job for you. I love cars, and build steam engines as a hobby. Britain used to be the home of high quality, skilled trades. British craftsmanship was admired the world over. The key word here is "WAS". Due to the labor strife, both post WW2, and in the 1970's, British manufacturing became only a small shell of what it used to be, and not much of anybody even recollects that in days past, something made in Britain, was of the best quality.

And nobody remembers British Leyland Motors either.

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby ajax » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:48 am

http://www.aei.org/publication/some-sat ... ng-spikes/
Perhaps one of the more interesting data points from yesterday’s Employment Report is displayed in the graph above, which shows that the jobless rate for black male teens (aged 16-19 years) increased to 40.1% in June from 28.1% in May. Except for a slightly higher increase of 12.2 percentage points during the aftermath of the Great Recession, the 12 percentage point increase in June was the highest monthly increase in history going back to 1972 when the BLS starting keeping records for this series. One possible explanation for this spike would be the “midyear burst of minimum-wage increases on July 1” outlined in a recent WSJ article:

On July 1, 14 U.S. cities, states and counties, plus the District of Columbia, will raise their minimum wage in a mid-year burst that reflects the legislative momentum to boost pay floors across the country while federal legislation stalls. In total, the minimum wage will rise in 15 places: two states – Maryland and Oregon, plus Washington, D.C., Los Angeles County, Calif., and 11 cities. That includes Chicago, eight cities in California and two in Kentucky, according to a new analysis by the right-leaning Employment Policies Institute.


As we learned from Milton Friedman many years ago:

The minimum wage law is most properly described as a law saying that employers must discriminate against people who have low skills. That’s what the law says. The law says that here’s a man who has a skill that would justify a wage of $5 or $6 per hour (adjusted for today), but you may not employ him, it’s illegal, because if you employ him you must pay him $7.25 per hour. So what’s the result? To employ him at $7.25 per hour is to engage in charity. There’s nothing wrong with charity. But most employers are not in the position to engage in that kind of charity. Thus, the consequences of minimum wage laws have been almost wholly bad. We have increased unemployment and increased poverty.

Moreover, the effects have been concentrated on the groups that the do-gooders would most like to help. The people who have been hurt most by the minimum wage laws are the blacks. I have often said that the most anti-black law on the books of this land is the minimum wage law.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Obrien » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:09 am

ajax wrote:
David13 wrote:Ajax
A video featuring that horrid woman. I don't even want to watch it, thanks anyway.


Watch it. You'll like it.


[Insert Obrien's favorite curse word here] man! Did the interviewer get arrested?
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby David13 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:27 pm

I couldn't watch the entire interview with that stinking weasel. So I don't know where he went with it, but I could see where it was going.
But, in a sense, she does have a point. They are doing that as part of a school educational project. Much the same as any college student working with a prof where they do all kinds of personal favors for him and all that, and get a better grade, and learn a lot more about the subject. A lot of them become real buddies with the prof and even go out drinking and all.
AND, they are paying tuition for all that.
So that's a minor point. A bigger point is, what companies does she, her husband and her extended family own that resulted from her work in government, what do they pay? Well, we will never know, because she has that all hidden, and you can be sure they are laying off like crazy and only hiring part time to avoid it like any other business has to do to stay in business.
The whole baloney about a minimum wage is only show dressing for these slick politicians to get votes. It's never anything that will actually benefit anyone. In fact, usually these schemes to get votes HURT those they are supposedly intended to help.
More people have lost their job or been cut back to part time due to the law than will ever benefit from it. And none of these greasy politicians will EVER look back to study that.
But they will keep boasting about it for years, how they HELPED, when they did no such thing.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Separatist » Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:09 pm

Minimum wage effect? DC restaurants lost more jobs since January than any 6-month period since 2001
http://www.aei.org/publication/minimum- ... ince-2001/

Climbing Minimum Wage Forces Popular Chicago Restaurant to Close
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/20 ... pular.html
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Separatist » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:19 pm

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/20 ... -wage.html

Yeoman Farmer emails:

I thoroughly enjoy your two blogs, reading them several times a day. There has been a movement in our county in flyover country to get our county Board of Supervisors to raise the minimum wage. Last night there was a public "discussion" on that topic at a liberal arts college in the county seat. Our county is primarily big ag in the country and big labor unions in the city. When I read about the upcoming discussion, I thought it would be a good venue for some "libertarian rabble rousing".

The event was held in a small auditorium at the college and attended by about a hundred people. I got there a few minutes early to survey the audience and see if there might be any allies in the crowd. I approached a few different folks and asked if they were for or against raising the minimum wage. Without exception they were for raising it. I began to think I might be on my own at this event. The four member panel consisted of one Democrat member of the Board of Supervisors, one Democrat state representative and two small business people. The audience was about evenly split between older folks (many with labor union hats and jackets) and college age kids.

I have read your blogs for several years, always taking a little extra time to carefully read and understand the posts on minimum wage laws because it struck me as so inimical to the rights of a "free" people to have government dictate what an employer could pay his/her employees. I did not have a whole lot of time to prepare for the "discussion" so I just went to your blog, typed "minimum wage" into the search bar, copied several cogent articles, printed them out, and highlighted the main points. With that, I was now armed and dangerous.

After the discussion moderator introduced the panel members, they each gave their spiel on why our county needed to raise the minimum wage to a living wage, what a shame it was that we had not, how great the poverty was in our area (even though we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation) and how it would be reduced with a raise in the minimum wage, how wonderful life would be once we did raise it, and on and on and on. I figured I would only get one shot at this. After panel finished there was a brief lull, so I secured the moderators approval and dove in.

I started with a brief history of the minimum wage laws being the favourite tool of labor unions to suppress "colored" races, "quoting Thomas Sowell in his NY Times article. Then I related the findings of the studies done in Canada that showed with a 10% increase in minimum wage there was a corresponding reduction of employment among teens and young adults of 3-6%. I asked the panel and audience what they had against young people and lower skilled that they wanted to make it illegal for them to take a job at less than what government said they could. I said the greatest poverty in our area was not economic poverty but a poverty of mind and spirit with it's accompanying lack of self-reliance and initiative that consequently looks to government for all the essentials of life; a poverty that government works non-stop to reinforce. My closing statement was this: "Heaven help us and save us from social do-gooders who wrap themselves in the cloak of self-righteousness social justice and arrogate to themselves the power of Leviathan State to tell others how to run their businesses and live their lives."

As a result of my statements and the ensuing firestorm of comments, I have a better understanding how the prophet Daniel felt in the lions den. There was no real, factual refutation of my points, only innuendo, emotion and obfuscation, as well as general hate and discontent. There was definitely a "deer in the headlights" look on the faces of the panel. By far, the majority of the audience was in favor of raising the minimum wage and had never even entertained the remote possibility that minimum wage laws were just plain wrong. My goal was not to convert everyone but just possibly light a few brushfires in the minds of men. One comment to that effect was from an older man in the audience who expressed his appreciation saying "I came hoping for a discussion of the issue and wish there had been this much discussion at the last Board of Supervisors meeting." Mission accomplished.

Thank you Robert for all the hard work that goes into Target Liberty and Economic Policy Journal. They are an essential part of the arsenal of liberty in our times.
"The love of liberty is the love of others; the love of power is the love of ourselves. We cannot force love" --William Hazlitt

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Separatist » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:08 am

Fighting Minimum Wage Laws: McDonald’s To Place Automated Ordering Stations At All US Locations
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/20 ... mment-form

The Daily Caller reports:
McDonald’s has announced plans to roll out automated kiosks and mobile pay options at all of its U.S. locations, raising questions about the future of its 1.5 million employees in the country and around the globe.

Roughly 500 restaurants in Florida, New York and California now have the automated ordering stations, and restaurant in Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle and Washington, D.C., will be outfitted in 2017, according to CNNMoney.

The locations that are seeing the first automated kiosks closely correlate with the fight for a $15 minimum wage. Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed into law a new $15 minimum wage for New York state in 2016, and the University of California has proposed to pay its low-wage employees $15. Florida’s minimum wage will rise Jan. 1, 2017. Seattle raised its minimum wage to $15 in 2014, followed by San Francisco and Los Angeles.

I expect some lefty economic simpletons to call for the banning of such kiosks which, of course, would result in the closing of McDonald's restaurants in some locations.
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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby David13 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:50 am

I still like the magic boats. That sums up the whole thing, that magic can be used to change reality.
There is no end to the idiocy.
dc

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:00 am

gclayjr wrote:
...... and not much of anybody even recollects that in days past, something made in Britain, was of the best quality.


You mean like Rolls-Royce, Aston Martin, Jaguar etc?
Yep, you're right.

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Re: The Minimum Wage in One Lesson

Postby gclayjr » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:15 am

Robin Hood,

Automotive News, June 2, 2003... How Ford Bought, Fixed Jaguar

Had Ford planners realized how bad things were at Jaguar the company, they might have had second thoughts about taking on Jaguar the brand.

"It wasn't that Jaguar's quality was bad, it was horrendous," said Bill Hayden, the tough east London manufacturing man Ford sent in as first Jaguar chairman in the new era.

"It was a terrible organization making terrible cars," he added.


http://www.autonews.com/article/20030602/SUB/306020844/how-ford-bought-fixed-jaguar

Regards,

George Clay


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