Maximum Personal Freedom: Good For You? Or Maybe Not So Much

[ajax]

In April 2015, L Tom approvingly quoted David Brooks of the NY Times:

“People are not better off when they are given maximum personal freedom to do what they want. They’re better off when they are enshrouded in commitments that transcend personal choice—commitments to family, God, craft and country.”

-"People are not better off when they are given maximum personal freedom to do what they want"?
Who is the one giving here? Isn't this inherent human right? Or is this a call to paternalism?

-Doesn't this ignore the fact that it is maximum personal freedom that allows a person to enter into said commitments in the first place?

-And even if said commitments are made, maximum personal freedom is still retained and not abrogated in any way, leaving the decision makers still free to follow through on commitments or not.

[jockeybox]

There is this economic idea of "choice paralysis". Intrinsically people assume; more options = more better. They think it allows one to get exactly what they are looking for.

However, that too many choices (or options) can cause one to mentally freeze or shut down.

For example, when I'm picking out toothpaste, it's a damn challenge. Do I want white teeth, strong teeth, fresh teeth, enamel rebuilding, healthy gums, etc. There are simply too many options and we are seldom satisfied. Always wondering if they should have selected a different one.

This doesn't address being "enshrouded in commitments that transcend personal choice". This one doesn't compute.
C'mon Perry, give it to me straight. Whatcha really sayin'!

[jbalm]

Sometimes, ya just gotta TAKE your personal freedom, when those who deign to GIVE it get stingy.

[shadow]

The context, which is often times overlooked when critiquing apostles, is not what is being presented.

Before I was married I never told anyone where I was going or what I was having for dinner. When I wanted to buy something I bought it. When I wanted a truck I went out and bought it. That freedom was lost when I got married.
My weekend mountain biking trips went bye bye when I started having kids. It was too expensive as a college kid to do what I wanted AND buy diapers etc. Same with snowmobiling. I no longer had the freedom to leave Saturday mornings and not come home until night because I had kids and a wife at home.
Where much is given (spouse and kids), much is required (time etc). That's the loss of freedom L Tom was referring to.

[kennyhs]

What is maximum personal freedom?

Is freedom a life without restraint, is freedom being addicted, is freedom doing whatever you want whenever you want, regardless of the
consequences? Or is that selfish? God's commandments are meant to make you free and keep you free.

[ajax]

Before I was married I never told anyone where I was going or what I was having for dinner. When I wanted to buy something I bought it. When I wanted a truck I went out and bought it. That freedom was lost when I got married.

I would suggest you didn't lose anything.

[shadow]

Before I was married I never told anyone where I was going or what I was having for dinner. When I wanted to buy something I bought it. When I wanted a truck I went out and bought it. That freedom was lost when I got married.

I would suggest you didn't lose anything.

Sure I did. Every good spouse loses something. They also gain something, but some freedom is lost, at least in a successful marriage. Some Indidvidualality is lost for the good of the family. That's not always a bad thing, as L Tom was saying.

[shadow]

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[David13]

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Shadow
I have certain tests as to what kind of woman I would want to have anything to do with. There is a failure on one of my most basic tests right there.
dc

[kennyhs]

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Shadow
I have certain tests as to what kind of woman I would want to have anything to do with. There is a failure on one of my most basic tests right there.
dc

LOL, you might just remain single.

[Zathura]

image.jpeg

Story of my life. I swear.

"we can go where you want tonight, okay baby? In n out no.. cafe rio no, costa vida no, supersonic nah, village inn isn't good, Ihop is expensive, I don't want to go somewhere that I haven't eaten before"


@-)

[David13]

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Shadow
I have certain tests as to what kind of woman I would want to have anything to do with. There is a failure on one of my most basic tests right there.
dc

LOL, you might just remain single.

LOL
Ain't no bother to me. I been single for quite a while now. Ain't bothered me at all.
It's one of those simple little tests that saves me a sore arm from filling out their application. You know,, the 15 pages, including background check and references.
Not that I can't pass the background check, nor that I don't have the references, it's just that I don't approach the situation like that.
Long ago a lady told me, "you better get married again real soon, otherwise you will get used to be single so much that you will never get married again."
At the time she said that, that, basically had already happened.
So, ...
However, you never know what might happen.
dc

[Vision]

Before I was married I never told anyone where I was going or what I was having for dinner. When I wanted to buy something I bought it. When I wanted a truck I went out and bought it. That freedom was lost when I got married.

I would suggest you didn't lose anything.

Sure I did. Every good spouse loses something. They also gain something, but some freedom is lost, at least in a successful marriage. Some Indidvidualality is lost for the good of the family. That's not always a bad thing, as L Tom was saying.

Lose is the wrong word to use. You willing chose to exchange past priorities for present/future priorities.

[shadow]

Before I was married I never told anyone where I was going or what I was having for dinner. When I wanted to buy something I bought it. When I wanted a truck I went out and bought it. That freedom was lost when I got married.

I would suggest you didn't lose anything.

Sure I did. Every good spouse loses something. They also gain something, but some freedom is lost, at least in a successful marriage. Some Indidvidualality is lost for the good of the family. That's not always a bad thing, as L Tom was saying.

Lose is the wrong word to use. You willing chose to exchange past priorities for present/future priorities.

Same diff.

[Separatist]

Not really.

[David13]

Not really, too.
I never understand when these guys see my motorcycle and say "oh, I'd like a motorcycle like that but my wife wouldn't let me have one."
What kind of wife is that? Who would want a wife like that? I mean, what does a guy want, a mother? Or a wife? A boss?
Or a partner?
And what kind of man is it that can say that?

There is another type of female that I need to shed quickly, not after getting involved. That is what I call the 'clinging vine'. The one who cannot stand to be away from the man for one night, or one weekend or whatever, and gets all whiney and sappy at the prospect.

Yes, when I get married again, it will be the right one, not the good looking one. Or the super sexy one. I don't need to make that mistake again. But, i do not mean like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NF5XU-k2Vk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
dc

[shadow]

Not really, too.
I never understand when these guys see my motorcycle and say "oh, I'd like a motorcycle like that but my wife wouldn't let me have one."
What kind of wife is that? Who would want a wife like that? I mean, what does a guy want, a mother? Or a wife? A boss?
Or a partner?
And what kind of man is it that can say that?

There is another type of female that I need to shed quickly, not after getting involved. That is what I call the 'clinging vine'. The one who cannot stand to be away from the man for one night, or one weekend or whatever, and gets all whiney and sappy at the prospect.

Yes, when I get married again, it will be the right one, not the good looking one. Or the super sexy one. I don't need to make that mistake again. But, i do not mean like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NF5XU-k2Vk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
dc

What kind of husband would buy a motorcycle when his wife doesn't want him to have one? Maybe she's worried? Maybe they can't afford one? Maybe it doesn't have enough room to haul a family around? That's my point. You give up some choices in favor of others because now you're a couple, a family. Now it's not just about you. But some husbands do whatever they want anyway. Magic Johnson (since you're a California man) , while married, slept around and got AIDS. A good husband, the kind L Tom was referring to, would give up his wild oats and be faithful.

Really.

[Separatist]

You never lose the choice, the option is still available. You simply choose otherwise. Therefore, "maximum personal freedom" is still preserved and is essential to developing good judgement / stewardship and responsibility as a free agent.

[Separatist]

Unless your spouse has your nuts tenders in a vise grip. :((

[shadow]

You never lose the choice, the option is still available. You simply choose otherwise. Therefore, "maximum personal freedom" is still preserved and is essential to developing good judgement / stewardship and responsibility as a free agent.

That's why my first post in this thread mentioned context.

[David13]

Not really, too.
I never understand when these guys see my motorcycle and say "oh, I'd like a motorcycle like that but my wife wouldn't let me have one."
What kind of wife is that? Who would want a wife like that? I mean, what does a guy want, a mother? Or a wife? A boss?
Or a partner?
And what kind of man is it that can say that?

There is another type of female that I need to shed quickly, not after getting involved. That is what I call the 'clinging vine'. The one who cannot stand to be away from the man for one night, or one weekend or whatever, and gets all whiney and sappy at the prospect.

Yes, when I get married again, it will be the right one, not the good looking one. Or the super sexy one. I don't need to make that mistake again. But, i do not mean like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NF5XU-k2Vk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
dc

What kind of husband would buy a motorcycle when his wife doesn't want him to have one? Maybe she's worried? Maybe they can't afford one? Maybe it doesn't have enough room to haul a family around? That's my point. You give up some choices in favor of others because now you're a couple, a family. Now it's not just about you. But some husbands do whatever they want anyway. Magic Johnson (since you're a California man) , while married, slept around and got AIDS. A good husband, the kind L Tom was referring to, would give up his wild oats and be faithful.

Really.

Who is Magic Johnson? Wait, no I don't want to know. I may be "in" California, but let me assure you I am not "of" California nor the "popular" agenda and particularly not the "aids world". Thank you very much.

I am not talking about buying a motorcycle without the advice and consent of the spouse. I am talking about what man would want a woman who would want him to delete an essential part of who he is? I have no children. I never had any.
But let's say you were a baseball player, a pro. Would you want to marry a woman who would want you to quit baseball?
Why?
Why would a man want to marry a woman and then "change" her in a similar fashion? No good reason as I see it.
You know, a lot of women are attracted to men who do things like ride a motorcycle. Those are the women who tend to like to do things themselves. Maybe parachuting.
The idea is to get a woman right and suited for you. And if you and she would never do anything risky (within reason) or dangerous, fine. But otherwise ...
I'm way beyond child producing age, and any woman I marry would be also.
dc

[Obrien]

Before I was married I never told anyone where I was going or what I was having for dinner. When I wanted to buy something I bought it. When I wanted a truck I went out and bought it. That freedom was lost when I got married.

I would suggest you didn't lose anything.

Maybe SHE did... ;)

[Vision]

Magic Johnson? dc

I sluffed school one day to go watch the Lakers practice. Magic shook our hands it was cool.

[shadow]

Magic Johnson? dc

I sluffed school one day to go watch the Lakers practice. Magic shook our hands it was cool.

I was a big fan in middle and high school. I was disappointed when it came out he had AIDS and admitted to liberally using his freedom by cheating on his wife... a lot. I hoped married people would no longer choose to be free to date and have relations with others...

[Separatist]

I would hope so too, but free to chose they are, nonetheless.