Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

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light-one
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Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by light-one »

Do the helicopter pilots have the right to shoot anyone trying to steal their chopper?

The police do NOT have a court order...

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=382393 ... d=queue-12

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David13
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Re: Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by David13 »

It has nothing to do with Nazi Germany.
It has to do with getting your site properly permitted for such an activity.
They are doing a commercial for profit thing there in a residential area. Their landing area is not licensed, permitted, approved, and thus perhaps not appropriate for heli landing.
Why not do it the right way.
Things like that affect your neighbors.
It also says it has been resolved. They are landing at the Sheriff's helipad, which I guess, is nearby.
dc

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light-one
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Re: Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by light-one »

Yes, it has been resolved and using the sheriff's helipad is a far cry from what the sheriff first suggested. Apparently, someone gave the sheriff an attitude adjustment.

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David13
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Re: Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by David13 »

I don't know about that.
I have seen many other situations like that.
Where someone does something with no permit the proposed response will seem very harsh at first. Huge fines, penalties, and a destruction of the property.
But once the usual process is started, as it could have been in the first place, then the reaction is toned down and a compromise is reached.
Usually their major concern is that they get their government fee, and then that it is done safely and according to building codes.
In this case I'm sure there are all kinds of federal, state and local regulations and requirements for a functioning commercial heli port.
And environmental and neighborhood impact reports, public hearings, then a decision, and approval.
dc

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light-one
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Re: Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by light-one »

In this link, the police threaten arrest and impound of chopper. http://www.ksl.com/?sid=38239302&nid=148

Not to be argumentative, but just a question; Since the pilot had permission from the land owner to land, and no mention was ever made about neighbors complaining if there even were any neighbors within a mile, wouldn't that be similar to me agreeing to fly your cousin to your place, with your permission to land, and the government saying they were going to arrest me and take my aircraft?

Admittedly, there are a few missing details like the size of the landing zone, but I view pretty much all licenses as a confiscation of a right that is rented back as a privilege. I am sure you are correct about the fee collection, but it doesn't make it right.

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David13
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Re: Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by David13 »

A thing may be right or wrong, but you can't fight city hall. I learned that when I was a kid.
As far as your freedom to use your land as a landing strip, are you free to do that? No. Not until you get all the licenses and permits and approvals that they say you need.
Without regard to whether it's right or wrong, it is how it goes.
And we have to live in the temporal world.
But it's nothing like Nazi Germany.
dc

And when you are getting your permits, etc., you may be able to get away with less if you are just using it for your own personal use, rather than a commercial, carrying passengers for profit (or a fee) operation.
Either way there are definite and extensive safety issues.

Ezra
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Re: Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by Ezra »

David13 wrote:A thing may be right or wrong, but you can't fight city hall. I learned that when I was a kid.
As far as your freedom to use your land as a landing strip, are you free to do that? No. Not until you get all the licenses and permits and approvals that they say you need.
Without regard to whether it's right or wrong, it is how it goes.
And we have to live in the temporal world.
But it's nothing like Nazi Germany.
dc

And when you are getting your permits, etc., you may be able to get away with less if you are just using it for your own personal use, rather than a commercial, carrying passengers for profit (or a fee) operation.
Either way there are definite and extensive safety issues.
That may be the way it is. But not the way it's supposed to be.

Every Person should have the right to do what ever they want on their own property. As long as that does not harm others.

And harm to others is required befor they can be guilty of something. You can't be guilty of doing a wrong befor the wrong was done.

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David13
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Re: Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by David13 »

So what you are saying is that I have the right to manufacture explosives on my property (next door to your house?) and no one can say anything about it until such time as there is an explosion?
No, Ezra, not quite. You go too far.
dc

It's always about a balance of interests.

Ezra
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Re: Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by Ezra »

David13 wrote:So what you are saying is that I have the right to manufacture explosives on my property (next door to your house?) and no one can say anything about it until such time as there is an explosion?
No, Ezra, not quite. You go too far.
dc

It's always about a balance of interests.
Do you think you have a right to control what I do or how I choose to make a living on my property if that does not harm you in any way?

If you think you do please tell me how God justifys that?

How does that fit into what Ezra Taft benson said about the proper roll Of government.


Would I want a neighbor mfg bombs next door to me. Not really. But I do have the option of moving, or helping him find a more suitable place.
I can show him love kindness. Voice my concerns and find a solution.

But if I use government to force my neighbor to move away or stop. Then I would be guilty of using unrighteous dominion over my fellow man. And could not exspect to make it into the celestial kingdom. As D&c 121 33-40 says.

The wrong way is use government to force him out. The right way is to use your voice and talk to him or the community about coming together and finding a solution by our own means. With our own hands and money if it's so required.

The lords way is the right way. But sometimes not the easiest way.

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light-one
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Re: Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by light-one »

I don't worry too much about a neighbor making bombs. Although one did a while back. https://www.ksl.com/?sid=18288609

That is a case where a civilian went nuts.

When a cop goes nuts, he remembers why he became a cop in the first place. It was Richard Goodboy that beat him up in the 8th grade for suggesting his sister needed a permit for her lemonade stand. Why, if you let people sell lemonade without a permit, then before you know it they will be giving innocent people a ride to the Film Festival. You can threaten to arrest them and impound their chopper, but if they take off, you will have to shoot them down with a stinger missile.

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David13
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Re: Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by David13 »

The government in cases like that is the community.
And the community has no power without the government.
The neighbors remedy, when all esle fails, is the courtroom.
dc

I think you have to ask yourself, do you believe in liberty, or anarchy? And have you much studied the difference.

Ezra
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Re: Park City Police think it's Nazi Germany

Post by Ezra »

David13 wrote:The government in cases like that is the community.
And the community has no power without the government.
The neighbors remedy, when all esle fails, is the courtroom.
dc

I think you have to ask yourself, do you believe in liberty, or anarchy? And have you much studied the difference.
That's not a correct statement at all. It's not one or the other anarchy or Liberty. They are not opposites.



Liberty and anarchy are holding hands vs Liberty and tyranny.

God has laws and rules. How does he enforce them? Inspire, forgive, turn the other cheek, invite.

He uses the opposite of unrighteous dominion.

Which is D&c 121

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—

That's the power God wields with.

Satan and those he tricks uses unrighteous dominion.

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.

39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.


If we use authority with Any dedree of unrighteousness and we are as vs 38 says not gods and are in fact fighting against him. Which is the disposition of almost all men.


So we can use righteousness to help our neighbor move to a more suitable place if his business causes you and the community worry. We can do that by what ever righteous means.

Which would be by

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

Or we can use our vote unrighteously and force him off his land because we don't approve of what he does.


Power only comes from God or Satan. Government can wield either. If your using force to make others do as you want them to. Your not using gods power. Your using unrighteous dominion.

So a individual just like with community just like government has power. They can wield gods power or Satans.

A individual can do much good. Or bad. A community can do much good or bad. A government can do much good or bad.

All have power.

Which will you choose?

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