Socialism - what is it?

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
freedomforall
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by freedomforall »

Robin Hood wrote:
freedomforall wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Thank you freedomforall, that was helpful.

A couple of general questions:
1. Is having an armed forces paid for at the behest of the government from the taxes levied on the people a form of socialism? No. It is the duty of Government to protect its citizens from foreign and domestic invasion or harmful intent.
2. ditto education, police, fire brigade etc?
As for the second question, it is not the role of federal government to provide these things. The safety and welfare for each state should be provided by state and city government. Even the sheriff's aren't to be controlled by the federal government. Over the years many sheriffs have turned into "yes" men at the whims of Government. Right now we are being overrun with militarized cops that think they can push and shove, and give orders to anyone they want to. They throw people to the ground and beat on them and arrest them on frivolous charges, merely because they think they are all powerful. The only difference between them and city gangs is a badge and a itchy trigger finger. Some form of corruption is found in the very place one should find solace and protection. An example of this is in cops using unmarked cars, illegally, to chase down speeders and whoever else they want to stop. The use of unmarked cars is a direct violation of law, so cops break laws in order to enforce others. And they get ticked if told about it.

I'm certain someone can explain this much better than I, however.
I don't really see the distinction between federal government and state government. Surely both are government. One does one thing and the other does another thing. State taxes and federal taxes are still taxes levied on the people.

Here in the UK we don't have a federal government so to speak because we don't have a federal system. We do have general taxation (central government) and local taxation (local government), so I suppose it's similar in that regard.

My point about the armed forces is that the people have no choice. The government take the money from them whether they agree or not, and spend it on their behalf in whatever way they see fit. The people don't get to decide on the size of the army or the number of nuclear warheads, or even the wars that are fought. According to the definitions most people here have applied to socialism, that has to qualify as a socialist approach.

So what I'm trying to understand is that there must be elements of socialism in every system. It seems to me that differences of opinion arise when we try to decide upon the extent of acceptable socialism, not it's presence or otherwise.

For some it should advance no further than the armed forces. For others it should include education, law and order (including the courts and criminal justice system), social security for the vulnerable, healthcare, etc.

I have my own views obviously, but for me socialism and communism are often conflated but are different animals in terms of the way they are implemented and the kind of economy and society they produce.
Maybe these will help.
A VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

The Federalist

Proper Role of Government

Declaration of Independence

Michael Badnarik - Constitution Class (Complete)

freedomforall
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by freedomforall »

Where did everybody go?

Just like we learn from he scriptures about Christ and his teachings, his church and everything we need to get into the presence of God, we also have the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the words of the Founders themselves teaching us what America is supposed to be all about.
One would think I posted a slimy worm or a bowl of maggots.

I personally thank all the people on this forum that take our awful situation seriously. I thank anyone who has taken the time to learn about secret combinations, what the Constitution is, how it is being destroyed and what is destroying it. I thankl anyone that cares enough to at least speak out for our Founding documents and strive to fight for the return of freedom and liberty as God wants us to have.

David O McKay said:

I think we owe at least the consideration to be loyal to this country and to spurn with all the soul that is within us the scheming disloyal citizens who would undermine our Constitution, or who would deprive the individual of his liberty vouchsafed by that great document, and some of our men who have come up through the public schools are doing just that. Let every loyal member of the Church look down with scorn upon any man or woman who would undermine that Constitution. (address delivered on May 24, 1954, published May 29, 1954, Church News, 3)

Or the saints can ignore this just as much as they ignore our God given rights that we're supposed to show gratitude for.

Ezra
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by Ezra »

So few know ffa. So few care. It's sad.


I imagine judgement day will be like the war in heaven. Much gnashing of teeth and moaning wailing when they find out they were not chosen not on the lords side. Not active in defending the constitution. And not going to to celestial kingdom.

freedomforall
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by freedomforall »

Ezra wrote:So few know ffa. So few care. It's sad.


I imagine judgement day will be like the war in heaven. Much gnashing of teeth and moaning wailing when they find out they were not chosen not on the lords side. Not active in defending the constitution. And not going to to celestial kingdom.
I guess it has something to do with the saying "some talk the talk and others walk the walk."
Even President Benson said it will take blood to regain freedom once it is lost.

Too bad topics of polygamy. SSM, gay lifestyle, end time events, C&E, Church of the Firstborn, Julie Rowe, Denver Snuffer, people claiming to be prophets, etc. appears to mean so much more in importance than following the counsel of prophets to learn and deal with that which is happening to our country in the here and now. That our very salvation hangs in the balance for not doing as God has directed in befriending and upholding the Supreme Law of the land. I suppose that LDS's think this is a big joke that means absolutely nothing. I mean. look at the record thus far of what a good share of Mormon's have done in ignoring their own freedom and liberty and allowing tyranny and pending slavery creep in for the kill...and all for what?

The Elders of Israel that are to save the Constitution have to come from somewhere, I just simply can't figure from where at this point. Complacency has settled in at almost every level in the church according to some church leaders.

How do I know this? From research. From 1965 GC:

The devil knows that if the elders of Israel should ever wake up, they could step forth and help preserve freedom and extend the gospel. Therefore the devil has concentrated, and to a large extent successfully, in neutralizing much of the priesthood. He has reduced them to sleeping giants. His arguments are clever….
[Says the devil]: “Don’t do anything in the fight for freedom until the Church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution.” This brings us right back to the scripture…to those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are “compelled in all things” [D&C 58:26]. Maybe the Lord will never set up a specific church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he set one up at this time it might split the Church asunder, and perhaps he does not want that to happen yet for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe….
[H]ave we elders been warned? Yes, we have. And have we elders been given the guidelines? Yes indeed, we have. And besides, if the Church should ever inaugurate a program [to save the Constitution], who do you think would be in the forefront to get it moving? It would not be those who were sitting on the sidelines prior to that time or those who were appeasing the enemy. It would be those choice spirits who, not waiting to be “commanded in all things,” used their own free will, the counsel of the prophets, and the Spirit of the Lord as guidelines and who entered the battle “in a good cause” and brought to pass much righteousness in freedom’s cause….
Brethren, if we had done our homework and were faithful, we could step forward at this time and help save this country. The fact that most of us are unprepared to do it is an indictment we will have to bear. The longer we wait, the heavier the chains, the deeper the blood, the more the persecution, and the less we can carry out our God-given mandate and worldwide mission. The war in heaven is raging on the earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle? (April 1965, General Conference)


Thanks, Ezra.

Robert Sinclair
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by Robert Sinclair »

FFA,
I already explained how the elders of Israel, could help, but you understood not. Instead you cast threats of "anger" "had it", at my suggestions over and over, and over again, to return to live the "United Order" "All things in common" "Equal in our temporal things" "No poor among us", as the ensign, banner to lift up high, as an example, to the Congress, and Senate, of programs to set up and mirror, to save this nation under God. If you fight againt the redemption of Zion, you only fight against God himself. I hope the wisdom, understanding, given of Jesus Christ, and not the heads of Jacob, and Princes of the House of Israel of Ephraim, thus far, will be finally acknowledged, and not angry at tithes, as well as fast offerings, and other consecrations in the billions and billions, cast into the storehouse of God, can finally be used once more, for the poor. This to loose the bands of wickedness and inequality, undo the heavy burdens of poverty, break every yoke of oppression thereby, imparting, private property, food and raiment, from the storehouse of God, unto the poor as before, from the beginning as with Enoch in Zion.
I hope you will support the things I have texted Jesus Christ has said, and no longer be angry with me, thanks.♡

freedomforall
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by freedomforall »

Robert Sinclair wrote:FFA,
I already explained how the elders of Israel, could help, so have I by reading the Constitution and defending it as told us to do. Read my previous posts. but you understood not. Instead you cast threats of "anger" "had it", at my suggestions over and over, and over again, to return to live the "United Order" "All things in common" "Equal in our temporal things" "No poor among us", as the ensign, banner to lift up high, as an example, to the Congress, and Senate, of programs to set up and mirror, to save this nation under God. If you fight againt the redemption of Zion, you only fight against God himself. I hope the wisdom, understanding, given of Jesus Christ, and not the heads of Jacob, and Princes of the House of Israel of Ephraim, thus far, will be finally acknowledged, and not angry at tithes, as well as fast offerings, and other consecrations in the billions and billions, cast into the storehouse of God, can finally be used once more, for the poor. This to loose the bands of wickedness and inequality, undo the heavy burdens of poverty, break every yoke of oppression thereby, imparting, private property, food and raiment, from the storehouse of God, unto the poor as before, from the beginning as with Enoch in Zion.
I hope you will support the things I have texted Jesus Christ has said, and no longer be angry with me, thanks.♡
Sorry, RS, we just don't see eye to eye on these matters. The United Order isn't going to fix tyrannical government. It is not going fix the Constitution, and it's not going to make people more righteous against their will.
Our Constitution is in distress, our freedom and liberty in jeopardy.
Have you read the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and books related to the destruction of liberty going on right now? Like None Dare Call It Conspiracy, The United States Has Two Constitutions, An Enemy Hath Done This, Prophets, Principles and National Survival, A Glorious Standard For All Mankind and others? Well, I have so I know what I'm talking about. Why I have even posted them on this forum, some free reading...all anyone has to do is to click on the link...can't be that hard.
You honestly believe that by giving away homes and land is going to bring freedom back, when we have a crooked government standing ready to take it away? What do you think is the issue of the Bundy's in Nevada and the Hammond family right here in Oregon? Did you know that the government wants their land because they think they have the power to steal it from them? Yes, steal it! The government hasn't got the Constitutional right to even own land, let alone take it from others, except for the 10 square mile in DC and any ports. And individual states have the power to take the land back, but the government wants to pull wool over everyones eyes to show a power of force they really don't have. It's plunder, plain and simple. Do you know this?
Before we can give away homes and such, we need to take our freedom back, and pay God his due as commanded. Trying to get the church to give away money is utter nonsense and a waste of time. Further, it isn't even scriptural. If you can get the rich to start buying homes and real estate for other people, go for it, and good luck. In the mean time it is up to you, me and every other LDS to show charity and give of our substance to others, something I do already....aside from paying a full tithe to the church as commanded.
Naturally, you are free to believe what you will but please refrain from trying to keep swaying myself and others to go against what we know to be true. Some of us can be just as rlentless in posting thousands of posts with the same message in each one, but I do not agree in this method. Thank you.

We will have to agree to disagree, that's it.
Last edited by freedomforall on January 14th, 2016, 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Robert Sinclair
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by Robert Sinclair »

And as far as homework, I already have explained, book reports, hand written, on "all the things", Jesus Christ has said to "do", and to "be like" and "to know", are important, and simple. Start with Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and 3rd Nephi, then read this report, over and over and over again, until all Jesus Christ's words have sunk deep into your heart, mind, and very soul. This will help all to be fellow servants of Jesus Christ, where they can help, because they will finally know, the things that need to be done, no longer captive souls, ignorant of all these things. Yes, even as it has been written, my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge of the word of God.

Yes, with this homework, memorizing all his words, they can then obey them, even as it is written in Jacob 5:72-74. Please read therein and see, that it is important, to have knowledge of "all" the words of Jesus Christ memorized, yes, good to do this.♡

If it will help, underline in Jacob 5:72, and highlight in a bright color, "they did obey the commandments of the Lord in all things", for how can one accomplish this if they know not what to do, and be like, and know?

Yes, read Isaiah 5:13-14.......

"Therefore my people are, gone into captivity because they have no knowledge: and their honorable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst."

"Therefore hell hath enlarged herself..............."

Every man woman and child who learns all the words of Jesus Christ, shrinks the boundaries of hell, until it is closed up and sealed, for the thousand years promised.

Good to do this homework, and get your hand written reports done, even as all the leaders of Israel are to do, see Deuteronomy 17:14-20 and highlight.♡

freedomforall
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

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Robert Sinclair wrote:And as far as homework, I already have explained, book reports, hand written, on "all the things", Jesus Christ has said to "do", and to "be like" and "to know", are important, and simple. Start with Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and 3rd Nephi, then read this report, over and over and over again, until all Jesus Christ's words have sunk deep into your heart, mind, and very soul. This will help all to be fellow servants of Jesus Christ, where they can help, because they will finally know, the things that need to be done, no longer captive souls, ignorant of all these things. Yes, even as it has been written, my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge of the word of God.

Yes, with this homework, memorizing all his words, they can then obey them, even as it is written in Jacob 5:72-74. Please read therein and see, that it is important, to have knowledge of "all" the words of Jesus Christ memorized, yes, good to do this.♡

If it will help, underline in Jacob 5:72, and highlight in a bright color, "they did obey the commandments of the Lord in all things", for how can one accomplish this if they know not what to do, and be like, and know?

Yes, read Isaiah 5:13-14.......

"Therefore my people are, gone into captivity because they have no knowledge: and their honorable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst."

"Therefore hell hath enlarged herself..............."

Every man woman and child who learns all the words of Jesus Christ, shrinks the boundaries of hell, until it is closed up and sealed, for the thousand years promised.

Good to do this homework, and get your hand written reports done, even as all the leaders of Israel are to do, see Deuteronomy 17:14-20 and highlight.♡
As I already stated, again and again, I have done my homework. Have you? Why must you keep arguing? I'm done with this back and forth nonsense.

Good to pay heed to those in the know. It will do some good. And, yes, other homework is in the need department. I've listed plenty of good reading above.

Robert Sinclair
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by Robert Sinclair »

You have done a hand written report, on all the things Jesus Christ has said to do, be like and know? I do not think so, from your posts, sorry.♡

freedomforall
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by freedomforall »

Robert Sinclair wrote:You have done a hand written report, on all the things Jesus Christ has said to do, be like and know? I do not think so, from your posts, sorry.♡
Believe me, I can certainly understand why you see things this way. Sorry!

I haven't written thousands of posts with the same message like a broken record, right? And I don't know what I'm talking about? Please, let it rest. I already said believe as you wish, just don't expect everyone else to follow your view. Why must you keep baiting me? What do you get out of it?

Robert Sinclair
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by Robert Sinclair »

FFA,

It is the very welfare of your soul, I seek to help.

Of all my posts on the LDS Facebook site, the book report suggestion, received an official "like" by and from, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Consider it please.♡

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Robin Hood
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by Robin Hood »

I'd like to thank everyone for their responses.
There have been some interesting comments. Some I concur with, some not.
But it has been a very useful exercise.
Many thanks.

freedomforall
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

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Robert Sinclair wrote:FFA,

It is the very welfare of your soul, I seek to help.
Of all my posts on the LDS Facebook site, the book report suggestion, received an official "like" by and from, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Consider it please.♡
I'm truly happy for you.

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Darren
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

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Robert Sinclair wrote:The "United Order" does not compel to give. It is freewill.

Once you have sufficient for your needs and wants ----

"And if thou obtainest more than that which would be for thy support, thou shalt give it into my storehouse, that all things may be done according to that which I have said."
(D&C 42:55)

No one is going to force you into the celestial kingdom, you must choose of your own freewill, to abide by the celestial law given.♡

Social benefit programs are to be financed with the "reside" after all have stewardships sufficient for their needs and wants, imparted unto them.
(See D&C 42:34-35 about "residue" after this first consecration, used for houses of worship and public benefit projects.)♡
:)

As I have come to understand for many years now, the United Order is the freewill, but not in the tradition of the prominent American Way of promoting a selfish styled freewill, of getting power and money in exchange for letting others also get theirs.

Freewill is two Germanic terms put together, one - Free means to enter into the community of Christ, the other is to do so by the mechanism of the will, or the inner most part of our being, our intelligence, in a commitment to live under the Lord's Way.

For our lost tribes of Israel ancestors, living in a community of freewill meant that they self organize according to the instructions found in Deuteronomy, in companies, cooperatives, commonwealths, and as the many tribes of Israel, with a commitment to do the purpose of the Lord found in Moses 1:39. This is the constitution of the people, that must be saved.

As Karl Marx, Georg Hegel and other Germanic Historians tried to understand the organization of this pre-catholic invasion community among the Germanic Tribes they gave this living by the organization that begun by communal commitment (by the freewill of each company participant) "COMMUNE-ISM."

But Karl Marx added Babylon's Central Bank and University styled promotion of control by "best thinkers" into the communal commitment society, and that cooked up a Socialism scheme of control from Satanic styled top-down instead as it was began by the Lord as a bottom-up organization.

So we are either going to have the false freedom of the chaotic American Experiment wherein everybody is in it selfishly for them and theirs first, or we are going to have the Socialist Experiment wherein somebody smarter than yourself gets to call the shots. That is until we wake up and rediscover the ISM of the Communes that the Lord set up in 43 A.D. at Lake Law, Sweden where in each person's will comes to the Lord by Oath to work together in the company structure that is the Society of the Kingdom of the Keys, that is called, living by our constitution, contract to give our will to the Lord's Purpose.

God Bless,
Darren

Robert Sinclair
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by Robert Sinclair »

For latter day America, I have seen no better plan of instructions given, than the "United Order" revealed, to have "No poor among us", of our own freewill today.♡

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Darren
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

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The point is that from a gospel perspective, we want a return to the Communism of the lost tribes of Israel as set up by the Lord at Lake Law, Sweden in 42 A.D., lived by our ancestors for hundreds of years before the catholic invasion, the cornerstone of our Free Enterprise System and Constitution today.

Are you ready and willing to self organize to work together as is shown in Deuteronomy?

And stop participating in the false paradigm, Babylon way to do things?

Living by true ancestral commune-ism is as easy to you as making that first company, of like minded individuals, organized and focused on the Lord as their reason for doing what they do.
Whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ and to enjoy the liberties of the Gospel in purity ...
The Articles of Confederation of the United Colonies of New England; May 19, 1643
Are you ready to save the constitution, by living it?

Being commanded in all things, as if the LDS Church was a top-down way to work together, merits The Cleansing.

God Bless,
Darren
Last edited by Darren on January 19th, 2016, 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Joel
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

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Image

Robert Sinclair
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by Robert Sinclair »

I would think if the celestial law is a mix of what was taught in the law given unto Enoch, and Melchizedek, Moses in the "Feast of Tabernacles" or Peter and the Twelve, in "All things common" in the Book of Acts, and "All things common" as was taught among the Nephites and Lamanites in the Books of 3rd and 4th Nephi, and "Lake Law" of Sweden, and the "United Order" given unto Ephraim to have as it's purpose "No poor among us" of our own freewill, having prepared a "Feast of Fat Things" for the poor, that we can be confounded no more, on how to treat the poor, it would be a good thing to seek to set up, true "Tzedakah" as the Jews call it.♡

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freedomforall
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

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Forced feeding may cause Fat things to weaken yet another thread to read like this...
ANOTHER THREAD BITES THE DUST..jpg
ANOTHER THREAD BITES THE DUST..jpg (45.38 KiB) Viewed 2857 times
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Robert Sinclair
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by Robert Sinclair »

Robert Sinclair wrote:I would think if the celestial law is a mix of what was taught in the law given unto Enoch, and Melchizedek, Moses in the "Feast of Tabernacles" or Peter and the Twelve, in "All things common" in the Book of Acts, and "All things common" as was taught among the Nephites and Lamanites in the Books of 3rd and 4th Nephi, and "Lake Law" of Sweden, and the "United Order" given unto Ephraim to have as it's purpose "No poor among us" of our own freewill, having prepared a "Feast of Fat Things" for the poor, that we can be confounded no more, on how to treat the poor, it would be a good thing to seek to set up, true "Tzedakah" as the Jews call it.♡
Good to understand about being "equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly", but of your own freewill, "All things common", among you.♡

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Re: Socialism - what is it?

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-
Last edited by freedomforall on July 29th, 2016, 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EmmaLee
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

Post by EmmaLee »

Just FYI - David Lory VanDerBeek has never been a U.S. senator, nor has he ever been the governor of Nevada. He did run for both offices, but lost dramatically in both elections.

https://ballotpedia.org/David_Lory_VanderBeek" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

freedomforall
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

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EmmaLee wrote:Just FYI - David Lory VanDerBeek has never been a U.S. senator, nor has he ever been the governor of Nevada. He did run for both offices, but lost dramatically in both elections.

https://ballotpedia.org/David_Lory_VanderBeek" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks. I do like his message, however. He is for freedom and liberty, as are LDS's supposed to be as well. Are the Elders of Israel going to save the Constitution or not? Do they know the Constitution? Do they know it is being destroyed? Do they know what is destroying it?

Have we not been warned time and time again to not let secret combinations get above us? I have posted many videos showing how we are slowly getting sucked into lies and propaganda on gun control and police enforcing unconstitutional laws all the while breaking the supreme law of the land.

This is the message DLV, Krisanne Hall, Sheriff Mack, Gavin Seim, Ammon Bundy, Adam Kokesh and many others are sending out. LDS's should be aligning their minds with the preservation of freedom as well.

David O. McKay
Latter-day Saints should have nothing to do with secret combinations and groups antagonistic to the Constitutional law of the land….
Next to being one in worshiping God, there is nothing in this world upon which this Church should be more united than in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States. (October 1939, General Conference)

freedomforall
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Re: Socialism - what is it?

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See what uniformed "people" do when faced, not knowing and upholding the Constitution that they took an oath to protect?

Guardians of the Emperor

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