Latter Day Government

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
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Jason
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Latter Day Government

Post by Jason »

With the actions in Oregon taken by LDS folks I thought it might be timely to discuss this at an ideological level in the context of our awful situation...

Doesn't take much of a perusal of my postings on LDSFF to understand my engagement in conspiracy history and the take over of the government. The collected reading list is here -
http://yophat.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I spent several weeks and a good number of hours assembling some conspiratorial history and coinciding prophetic quotes available here -
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9376&start=690#p239554" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So with that background in place I'd like to examine the context of our actions now for freedom, liberty, and preservation of the Constitution. The government is clearly not guided anymore by the Constitution and pretty much unconstitutional in much of its application. Many disputes and arguments on this forum over the issue.

Enter my personal belief that the reality at the end of the day is compromise. The reality at the end of the day...if it is to be a successful society...that the majority must live by God's commandments and hold others accountable for God's law. Whether its a democracy or an autocracy makes little difference.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
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and yet we've decayed...
I think the meeting which the Council on Foreign Relations arranged in the Soviet Union, in 1961, was more important than President Kennedy's meeting with Khrushchev, because I am convinced that the Council on Foreign Relations, together with a great number of other associated tax-exempt organizations, constitutes the invisible government which sets the major policies of the federal government; exercises controlling influence on governmental officials who implement the policies; and, through massive and skillful propaganda, influences Congress and the public to support the policies.

I am convinced that the objective of this invisible government is to convert America into a socialist state and then make it a unit in a one-world socialist system.
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Satan has control now. No matter where you look, he is in control, even in our own land. He is guiding the governments as far as the Lord will permit him. That is why there is so much strife, turmoil, and confusion all over the earth. One master mind is governing the nations. It is not the president of the United States; it is not Hitler; it is not Mussolini; it is not the king or government of England or any other land; it is Satan
himself.
― Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation Vol I

Despite this precarious situation I don't believe there will be any means of successful revision or revolution and submit the following commentary from John Taylor for food for thought on it...
One thing more upon this subject, and I have done. In Europe, there has been of late years a great mania for revolutions—a strong desire to establish republican governments ; but let me remark here, that the form of government will not materially affect the position of the people, nor add to the resources of a country. If a country is rich and prosperous under a monarchy, it will be so under a republic, and vice versa. If poor under one, it will be under another. If nations think proper to change their form of government, they of course have a right to do so ; but to think that this will ameliorate their condition, and produce happiness, is altogether a mistake. Happiness and peace are the gifts of God, and come from Him.

Every kind of government has its good and evil properties. Rome was unhappy under a kingly government, and also under a republican form. Carthage as a republic was no more happy than many of its monarchial contemporaries ; nor was Corinth, Holland, or Venice ; and republican Genoa has not manifested anything very much in favor of these principles. France was unhappy under her emperor, she was unhappy under her kings, and is unhappy as a republic. America is perhaps some little exception to this ; but the difference lies not so much in her government, as in the extent of her country, the richness of her soil, and abundance of her resources ; for, as I have already mentioned, "Lynch law" prevails to an alarming extent in the south and west. In the state of New York, in the east, there are mobs painted as Indians resisting the officers of the law, and doing it with impunity ; and it is a matter of doubt whether persons having paid for property, shall own it, or be dispossessed by their tenants, not in law, for the constitution and laws are good, but in practice defective, through popular clamor and violence. I refer to the estates of Van Ranseller and others ; and, in the west, to Joseph and Hyrum Smith, who were murdered in Carthage jail, without any redress, although their murderers were known to the officers of state ; and to the inhabitants of a city, ten thousand in number, together with twenty thousand others, principally farmers, labourers, and mechanics, occupying a country about ten miles wide, and thirty long, most of which was well cultivated and owned by the occupants,—who were all forced by continual harassing by lawless mobs, to leave a country in which they could not be protected, and seek an asylum in a far off desert home, there being no power in the government to give redress.

It is altogether an infatuation to think that a change in government will mend the circumstances, or increase the resources, when the whole world is groaning under corruption. If there are twenty men who have twenty pounds of bread to divide amongst them, it matters but little whether it is divided by three, ten, or the whole, it will not increase the amount. I grant, however, that there are flagrant abuses, of which we have mentioned some, associated with all kinds of governments, and many things to be complained of justly ; but they arise from the wickedness of man, and the corrupt and artificial state of society. Do away with one set of rulers, and you have only the same materials to make another of ; and if ever so honestly disposed, they are surrounded with such a train of circumstances, over which they have no control, that they cannot mend them.

There is frequently much excitement on this subject ; and many people ignorant of these things, are led to suppose that their resources will be increased, and their circumstances bettered ; but when they find, after much contention, struggling, and bloodshed, that it does not rain bread, cheese, and clothing ; that it is only a change of men, papers, and parchment, chagrin and disappointment naturally follow.

There is much that is good, and much that is bad in all governments; and I am not seeking here to portray a perfect government, but to
show some of the evils associated with them, and the utter incompetency of all the plans of men to restore a perfect government; and as all their plans have failed, so they will fail, for it is the work of God, and not of man. The moral agency of man without God, has had its full development ; his weakness, wickedness, and corruption, have placed the world where it is : he can see as in a glass his incompetency, and folly, and nothing but the power of God can restore it.

It is not to be wondered at, that those various plans should exist, for the world is in a horrible situation. Jesus prophesied of it, and said, there should be upon the earth " distress of nations, perplexity, men's hearts failing them, for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming upon the earth," Luke xxi. 25, 26. Men see these things, and their hearts fear ; confusion, disorder, misery, blood, and ruin, seem to stare them in the face ; and in the absence of something great, noble, and magnificent, suited to the exigency of the case, they try the foregoing remedies, as a sailor, in the absence of a boat, would cling with tenacity to any floating piece of wreck, to save him from a watery grave.

There are very many philanthropists who would gladly ameliorate the condition of men, and of the world, if they knew how. But the means employed are not commensurate with the end ; every grade of society is vitiated and corrupt. " The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint." Our systems, our policy, our legislation, our education, and philosophy, are all wrong, neither can we be particularly blamed, for these evils have been the growth of ages. Our fathers have left God, his guidance, control, and support, and we have been left to ourselves; and our present position is a manifest proof of our incompetency to govern ; and our past failures make it evident, that any future effort, with the same means, would be as useless. The world is diseased, and it requires a world's remedy.

If man, then, is an eternal being, came from God, exists here for a short time, and will return, it is necessary that he know something about God, and his government. For he has to do with him not only in time, but in eternity, and whatever man may be disposed to do, or however he may vaunt himself of his own abilities, there are some things he has no control over. He came into the world without his agency, he will have to leave it, whether he desires it or not ; and he will also have to appear in another world. He is destined, if he improves his opportunities, to higher and greater blessings and glory than are associated with this earth in its present state : and hence the necessity of the guidance of a superior power, and intelligence, that he may not act the part of a fool here, and jeopardize his eternal interests; but that his intelligence may be commensurate with his position ; that his actions here may have a bearing upon his future destiny ; that he may not sink into the slough of iniquity and degradation, and contaminate himself with corruption ; that he may stand pure, virtuous, intelligent, and honourable, as a son of God, and seek for, and be guided and governed by his Father's counsels.
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I have a testimony of the importance of “being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law” (Articles of Faith 1:12). Because we are subject to rulers, we must do all we can in diplomatic, legal, and supportive ways to select and help elect officials who are honest, wise, and good (see D&C 98:10). We should also consider running for office ourselves and support laws that observe the “principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, [which belong] to all mankind, and [are] justifiable before me” (D&C 98:5).

I am always pleased when a First Presidency letter is read in sacrament meeting just before each election encouraging Latter-day Saints to be involved in the election process and to choose able and honest political and governmental leaders. The First Presidency reminds us that “as citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. … We urge you to register to vote, to study the issues and candidates carefully and prayerfully, and then to vote.”1

In working in the community, we should make sure that people understand we represent only ourselves. Handbook 1 states: “Candidates for public office should not imply that their candidacy is endorsed by the Church or its leaders. Church leaders and members should also avoid statements or conduct that might be interpreted as Church endorsement of any political party, platform, policy, or candidate.”3

May we follow the counsel of our leaders as we seek through the Spirit ways to support good public policy. And may we be part of “the voice of the people” that works for what is right, blessing our families, communities, and nations as a result.
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And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land.
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John Adams, a Founding Father of the United States, declared, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”3 Freedom is inextricably linked to our morality, and religious believers and institutions are essential to preserving morality.4

No nation past or present can preserve basic rights and security to its people without a moral foundation. President Thomas S. Monson has observed, “Behaviors which once were considered inappropriate and immoral are now not only tolerated but also viewed by ever so many as acceptable.”5 “The moral compass of the masses,” he has proclaimed, “has gradually shifted to an ‘almost anything goes’ position.”6 Individual moral choices affect the larger society in which we live. Elder Jeffrey R. Holland said, “The Father’s plan and His Beloved Son’s gift optimistically endow humans with both the ability and the responsibility to make choices with the hope … and a belief that free people will use their liberty to choose good over evil, right over wrong, virtue over vice.”7

As members of the Church prayerfully study the issues and decisions facing today’s communities and nations, they will be able to discern and understand how to apply eternal principles to issues being debated by politicians and public officials.

Latter-day Saints are encouraged to be informed and participate in civic and political activities, “to be actively engaged in worthy causes to improve their communities and make them wholesome places in which to live and rear families”9 in accordance with the laws of their respective governments.

Where possible, this includes a special obligation to seek out, vote for, and uphold leaders who are honest, good, and wise (see D&C 98:10). Likewise, “Church members are encouraged to consider serving in elected or appointed public offices in local and national government” and to “support measures that strengthen the moral fabric of society, particularly those designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.”10

All who can should exercise the right to vote in national and local elections and follow the counsel of the Apostle Paul to pray for the wisdom of civic leaders, “for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty” (1 Timothy 2:1–2).

Elder Quentin L. Cook taught that it is hard “to change society at large, but we must work to improve the moral culture that surrounds us. Latter-day Saints in every country should be good citizens, participate in civic affairs, educate themselves on the issues, and vote.”12 President Thomas S. Monson has encouraged all of us to “be good citizens of the nations in which we live and good neighbors in our communities, reaching out to those of other faiths, as well as to our own,” and to “be men and women of honesty and integrity in everything we do.”13
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For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever.

Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?" All their artful[Pg 546] expressions of false adulation were countered by the withering epithet "hypocrites." "Shew me the tribute money," He commanded, and they produced a penny—a Roman denarius bearing the effigy and name of Tiberius Cæsar, emperor of Rome. "Whose is this image and superscription?" He asked. They answered "Cæsar's." "Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Cæsar the things which are Cæsar's; and unto God the things that are God's."[1109]

The reply was a masterly one by whatever standard we gage it; it has become an aphorism in literature and life. It swept away any lingering thought or expectation that in the mind of Him who had so recently ridden into Jerusalem as King of Israel and Prince of Peace, there was even the semblance of aspiration for earthly power or dominion. It established for all time the one righteous basis of relationship between spiritual and secular duties, between church and state. The apostles in later years builded upon this foundation and enjoined obedience to the laws of established governments.

Governments are instituted of God, sometimes by His direct interposition, sometimes by His permission. When the Jews had been brought into subjection by Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, the Lord commanded through the prophet Jeremiah (27:4-8) that the people render obedience to their conqueror, whom He called His servant; for verily the Lord had used the pagan king to chastize the recreant and unfaithful children of the covenant. The obedience so enjoined included the payment of taxes and extended to complete submission. After the death of Christ the apostles taught obedience to the powers that be, which powers, Paul declared "are ordained of God." See Rom. 13:1-7; Titus 3:1; 1 Tim. 2:1-3; see also 1 Peter 2:13, 14. Through the medium of modern revelation, the Lord has required of His people in the present dispensation, obedience to and loyal support of the duly established and existing governments in all lands. See Doc. and Cov. 58:21-22; 98:4-6; and section 134 throughout. The restored Church proclaims as an essential part of its belief and practise: "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." See Articles of Faith, xxiii.

The gospel of Jesus Christ, which shall yet regenerate the world, is to prevail—not by revolutionary assaults upon existing governments, nor through anarchy and violence—but by the teaching of individual duty and by the spread of the spirit of love. When the love of God shall be given a place in the hearts of mankind, when men shall unselfishly love their neighbors, then social systems and governments shall be formed and operated to the securing of the greatest good to the greatest number. Until men open their hearts to the reception of the gospel of Jesus Christ, injustice and oppression, servitude and slavery, in some form or other, are sure to exist. Attempts to extirpate social conditions that spring from individual selfishness cannot be otherwise than futile so long as selfishness is left to thrive and propagate.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and toestablish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever.

The inauguration of Christ's reign on earth is to be the beginning of a period that shall be distinct in many important particulars from all precedent and subsequent time; and the Lord shall reign with His people a thousand years. The government of individuals, communities and nations throughout this Millennium is to be that of a perfect theocracy, with Jesus the Christ as Lord and King. The more wicked part of the race shall have been destroyed; and during the period Satan shall be bound "that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled"; while the just shall share with Christ in rightful rule and dominion. The righteous dead shall have come forth from their graves, while the wicked shall remain unresurrected until the thousand years be past.[1587] Men yet in the flesh shall mingle with immortalized beings; children shall grow to maturity and then die in peace or be changed to immortality "in the twinkling of an eye."[1588] There shall be surcease of enmity between man and beast; the venom of serpents and the ferocity of the brute creation shall be done away, and love shall be the dominant power of control. Among the earliest revelations on the subject is that given to Enoch; and in this the return of that prophet and his righteous people with Christ in the last days was thus assured:

"And the Lord said unto Enoch: Then shalt thou and all thy city meet them there, and we will receive them into our bosom, and they shall see us; and we will fall upon their necks, and they shall fall upon our necks, and we will kiss each other; And there shall be mine abode, and it shall be Zion, which shall come forth out of all the creations which I have made; and for the space of a thousand years the earth shall rest. And it came to pass that Enoch saw the day of the coming of the Son of Man, in the last days, to dwell on the earth in righteousness for the space of a thousand years."[1589]

[Pg 791]

In these latter days the Lord has thus spoken, requiring preparation for the Millennial era, and describing in part the glories thereof:

"And prepare for the revelation which is to come, when the veil of the covering of my temple, in my tabernacle, which hideth the earth, shall be taken off, and all flesh shall see me together. And every corruptible thing, both of man, or of the beasts of the field, or of the fowls of the heavens, or of the fish of the sea, that dwell upon all the face of the earth, shall be consumed; And also that of element shall melt with fervent heat; and all things shall become new, that my knowledge and glory may dwell upon all the earth. And in that day the enmity of man, and the enmity of beasts, yea, the enmity of all flesh, shall cease from before my face. And in that day whatsoever any man shall ask, it shall be given unto him. And in that day Satan shall not have power to tempt any man. And there shall be no sorrow because there is no death. In that day an infant shall not die until he is old, and his life shall be as the age of a tree, and when he dies he shall not sleep, (that is to say in the earth,) but shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and shall be caught up, and his rest shall be glorious. Yea, verily I say unto you, in that day when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things."[1590]
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2EstablishZion
captain of 100
Posts: 337

Re: Latter Day Government

Post by 2EstablishZion »

I understand the point, but disagree with the helpless, do nothing recommendation. Yes, under a righteous king, a righteous Republic upheld by righteous citizens...yes, yes the end result is going to be the same or similar, likewise and evil king, evil republic, democracy, or whatever. (alking to you, Jason, but to the quoted material above)

I don't think shrugging shoulders and saying oh well, nothing I can do - and then honoring and upholding bad laws because of an article of faith is the correct course. Not saying armed insurrection or taking over federal buildings is the right answer - it's not - but the right answer is between those extremes of accommodation and open revolution.

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7083
Location: Utah

Re: Latter Day Government

Post by David13 »

I have been commanded to preach the Gospel and build up the Kingdom.
That's my job.
Not overthrowing the government.
How could I do it anyway?
2Zion
What are the specifics? What can we do? I vote. You know what good that does when there are more millions than ever mooching off the government.
dc

User avatar
Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: Latter Day Government

Post by Jason »

2EstablishZion wrote:I understand the point, but disagree with the helpless, do nothing recommendation. Yes, under a righteous king, a righteous Republic upheld by righteous citizens...yes, yes the end result is going to be the same or similar, likewise and evil king, evil republic, democracy, or whatever. (alking to you, Jason, but to the quoted material above)

I don't think shrugging shoulders and saying oh well, nothing I can do - and then honoring and upholding bad laws because of an article of faith is the correct course. Not saying armed insurrection or taking over federal buildings is the right answer - it's not - but the right answer is between those extremes of accommodation and open revolution.
What plan of action are you recommending? What do you recommend we do?


My bag for not communicating the point better. My point is where our efforts are focused, what those efforts are, and to what end.

I've known numbers of people over the years who have worked very hard to disseminate information, get people engaged, and to campaign for one politician or another that was going to change the day.

I believe the focus of the majority of people on the subject ends up in complete despair/depression....or simply an on-going fantasy that somehow they are going to change the course by some political effort. Or as of late...some folks feel the need to use force and get in a stand-off with government forces.

In the past I've though that somehow if enough people are aware of the conspiracy that will change the course. At one point in time I set monthly goals on the distribution of materials and documentaries.

And at one point in time I believed that a certain politician would somehow make a difference if I could only campaign hard for him and help finance the campaign.

This statement by a fellow Marine and secret combination researcher, Craig Roberts, encapsulates the perspective that I now hold (in bold) -
Craig wrote:When I was working on “Legacy of Dishonor” which later became two books, “Kill Zone” and “Medusa File”, I kept chasing the question of “who is in charge” of all the bad stuff and organizations that are just plain evil. I followed the money and the power, came across the same names and organizations, and most importantly often the same families throughout much of modern history. (Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Chases, Spencers, Mellons, etc. etc.) and the same organizations, often changing names but still the same “tribe” going back to long before the Knight’s Templar and up through history as Freemasons, Knights of the Golden Circle, Royal Society for International Affairs, CFR, Committee of 300 and so on.

But the biggest revelation was when a retired senior CIA official, read Kill Zone and told me that I didn’t go high enough with the CFR. He told me of a Council of Thirteen. The Council meets one or more times a month somewhere in the world to decide what will happen in the banking, energy, precious metals, drugs, politics, and every other facet of control. He said that their normal monthly meeting always occurred on the 13th of the month, but they would meet on other days if needed and as often as needed. The members are from many different countries, but always from the U.S., Russia, China, Germany and the UK. In the conference room is a table that has six chars on each side, and one at the head of the table. There are twelve people that show up and the head chair is left empty for their Chairman. Their Chairman is Lucifer! (Or maybe he is IS there, but not visible to human eyes).

The bottom line is that there is and always has been two forces at work on this planet since the beginning of recorded time, if not before: Good (God) and Evil (Satan). it started as a battle in Heaven when Lucifer and a third of the angels rebelled and were caste out to become Satan and his demons. The battle has been going on in the spiritual world ever since, and in the human world since the Garden of Eden. IF you understand that, then the rest falls in place and makes sense. There are many examples in history of certain people being pure evil—some say demon possessed—such as Calligula, Genghis Khan, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, and in my opinion, Hussein Obama. These agents of Satan are bent on destruction of countries, the human race, and always are in rebellion against God. (Almost all persecutions of religion in history was/is against Christians and Jews).

We know inside what is right and what is wrong. Those that insist on doing wrong, even if they know or someone else points it out, do not care. They have a mission—a mission of destruction. They do exactly the opposite of the Ten Commandments and instead turn their back on God and claim that they are atheist, secular humanists, self-gods, or are in a religion that worships everything from created objects to nature to false gods. All of that is Satanism. Satan does not care what you worship as long as it is not God (Yahweh).

We are in the final stages of the battle. We have the capability of fulfilling all of prophecy from the Mark of the Beast (RFIDs) to the Four Horsemen (nuclear war, biological war, starvation, financial collapse). Add to this all the end-times signs: More earthquakes now, more volcanos erupting. more tsunamis, more meteorites and comets hitting us or passing closely by, droughts, floods, hurricanes, blizzards, and things we can pin point like Chernobyl and Fukishima. Fukishima alone is poisoning the Pacific as we speak. These are all God’s warning signs, but add in political strife (wars and rumors of wars), the Middle East on the verge of total war (which will include nukes from either Iran or Israel or both), the New Age UN working on “population reduction” of up to 80% (re: the Gorbachev conference in San Francisco a few years ago) and we can see the entire book of Revelation unfolding before our eyes.

The problem is the human race which breaks down into two types of birds: Ostriches and Eagles. The eagles soar above and see all of these things, but the ostriches have their heads in the sand and see nothing and do not want to see anything—and their butts are in the air waiting to be kicked.

America was God’s country. But the termites and parasites of Satan have infiltrated the government and are destroying us from inside. They have worked to destroy our knowledge of right and wrong, our morals (“if it feels good do it”), our work ethic, our military strength, our military capability and leadership, and the minds of our youth. (Read Roman’s 1)

Barrack Hussein Obama and the Communist (Democrat) Party are putting the nails in the coffin of the ol’ USA as we speak. Russia and China are building their military more every day, Obama is chopping up our military in numbers and leadership, and the middle east is not just a powder keg, but a tank car full of nitroglycerine.

I’ve rambled long enough. You get the picture. It will take those of us who stand fast to resist this evil. The issue is not whether we can take back the world, but where exactly WE stand as individuals—for God or against him, therefore for Satan.
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Life is a test. The Creator can at any time alter the course through His means. And there is a macro perspective to it as a people. As noted above in the writings of John Taylor...people can change their form of government with more or less representation yet fail to change their circumstances and enjoy any more freedom or prosperity. The realities are noted by the Founding Father's comments below:

October 11, 1778: John Adams, The Changing Political Thought of John Adams, Howe, p. 189:
“We have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and true religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

September 17, 1787: Benjamin Franklin, Speech at the Constitutional Convention:
“Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious they have more need of masters.”

1785: Thomas Jefferson – Notes on the State of Virginia:
“Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever.”

I know we have an ongoing duty and obligation to the Constitution.

February 18, 1855: Brigham Young, JD 2:182, Latter Day Prophets Speaks. Pg. 230:
“When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the “Mormon” elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it.”

August 31, 1879: John Taylor, JD 21:8 –
“When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States, the elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men and extending the hand of fellowship to the oppressed of all nations. This is part of the program and as long as we do what is right and fear God He will help us and stand by us under all circumstances.”

October 1923: Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, p62:
“Brethren and sisters, let me say in closing that we have it of record, that the prophet Joseph Smith said the time will come when, through secret organizations taking the law into their own hands, not being governed by law or by due process of law, but becoming a law unto themselves, when, by those disintegrating activities, the Constitution of the United States would be so torn and rent asunder, and life and property and peace and security would be held of so little value, that the Constitution would, as it were, hang by a thread. But he never said, so far as I have heard, that that thread would be cut. I believe, with Elder Richards, that this Constitution will be preserved, but it will be preserved very largely in consequence of what the Lord has revealed and what this people, through listening to the Lord and being obedient, will help to bring about, to stabilize and give permanency and effect to the Constitution itself. That also is our mission. That also is what we are here for. I glory in it. I praise god with all my heart and soul that I am a member of it.”

...but at the end of the day it won't be my hand that destroys the secret combinations...
But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles shall be blessed upon the land.
And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the Gentiles.
And I will fortify this land against all other nations.
And he that fighteth against Zion shall perish, saith God.
For he that raiseth up a king against me shall perish, for I, the Lord, the king of heaven, will be their king, and I will be a light unto them forever, that hear my words.
Wherefore, for this cause, that my covenants may be fulfilled which I have made unto the children of men, that I will do unto them while they are in the flesh, I must needs destroy the secret works of darkness, and of murders, and of abominations.
Wherefore, he that fighteth against Zion, both Jew and Gentile, both bond and free, both male and female, shall perish; for they are they who are the whore of all the earth; for they who are not for me are against me, saith our God.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/10.10?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The plan of action to me seems to be to spread righteousness...only successful strategy...but I'm open to suggestions???

I've been in a number of hell holes this planet has to offer. I've researched extensively and its my personal belief that no one will defeat them politically (or really any other way outside of preaching the gospel and basic principles). Paul Revere wouldn't hit the horse before the NSA picked up his conversation and credit card tab at the saloon...called in spec ops in black mode under the direction of Jade II software to take him out.

Jesus Christ will break the secret combinations. Our (or mine as I see it) duty is to hold fast to the Word of God...be an example and active in our local communities...save our dead...and hold the course (upholding Constitutional principles to the best of our ability) until the Savior arrives.

If anyone else has a better plan? I'm all ears....

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Jamescm
captain of 100
Posts: 575

Re: Latter Day Government

Post by Jamescm »

Someone linked to this in another topic, and I think it answers questions of this nature pretty effectively.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/06/i-ha ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As much as Christ and those who take His name upon them want peace, The Book of Mormon, the Bible, and the Doctrine and Covenants are all clear that at times it is not the best option.

Ezra
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: Latter Day Government

Post by Ezra »

David13 wrote:I have been commanded to preach the Gospel and build up the Kingdom.
That's my job.
Not overthrowing the government.
How could I do it anyway?
2Zion
What are the specifics? What can we do? I vote. You know what good that does when there are more millions than ever mooching off the government.
dc
D&c 88 76-82 also commands us to know of the curruption of nations and wars and such. So we can warn our neighbors.
D&c 123 12-16 tells us to waist and wear out our lives in knowing the craftyness of men. To turn a light onto those things. So we won't be decived and to be able to lead others.

2 nephi 28:30 says as we learn more wisdom God will continue to give us more.

Education of self and in turn teaching others is the most important thing we can do to combat evil.

We won't change this nation without a change of heart of the nations people.

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Jason
Master of Puppets
Posts: 18296

Re: Latter Day Government

Post by Jason »

Jamescm wrote:Someone linked to this in another topic, and I think it answers questions of this nature pretty effectively.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/06/i-ha ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As much as Christ and those who take His name upon them want peace, The Book of Mormon, the Bible, and the Doctrine and Covenants are all clear that at times it is not the best option.
Thank you for that link...some good discussion there on this topic!

Particularly this little piece -
Samuel Adam’s observations are worth heeding. There are two questions we must ask when someone makes a case for revolution: does he represent a minority point of view disguised as the will of the people; and does he represent the desires of the whole better than the lawfully elected representatives of the people gathered in our legislative bodies?

As Latter-day Saints, we must also remember our commitment to the principles of the Constitution and justice. We would never wish to back a movement, even if a majority of the people favored it, that went contrary to the basic principles of our nation and our religion. A recent student of revolutions has observed that very few revolutions have benefited the people in the long run. The American Revolution is possibly the only one that clearly qualifies. We must, therefore, honor our revolutionary forefathers for their achievement without allowing ourselves to be persuaded that revolution is a suitable means for achieving contemporary political purposes.

As long as the government is a representative one, so that aggrieved persons can work to enlarge their freedoms and relieve their oppressions by legal and peaceful means, a Latter-day Saint citizen’s duty is that of “being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.” (A of F 1:12].) There are exceptions to this duty, discussed below, but they are extremely limited.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/06/i-ha ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My concern is that while we can get caught up in frustration with all that's going wrong...and toss the baby out with the bathwater.

Or perhaps a different analogy would be not liking the construction of a house...and desiring to tear it down and rebuild...but lacking the fundamental tools (character) to properly rebuild...and end up worse off with no shelter whatsoever (scattered into tribes with no government).

This is the point I believe John Taylor was addressing with his comments on it. Need a proper solution to the problem or you end up worse off than before..

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Latter Day Government

Post by lundbaek »

One suggestion I would like to add to those already given here is that we do as past latter-day prophets suggested and learn the principles of the gospel and of "the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers" and do our best to teach them to others as we ourselves uphold and abide by them. I don't expect we will witness any big turn-about this side of the cleansing of America. But I believe some of the seeds we plant now will sprout on the other side of that cleansing and be among the "elders of Israel" who are prophesied to restore the Constitution to its rightful place in government.

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