Foreordination vs. Agency vs. Jonah from the Bible?

[curioussaint25]

I am very confused by the idea of Foreordination vs. agency. As I've understood it in all of my studies of lds scripture, many spirits ( not even just prophets) were foreordained to their positions in the premortal spirit world. So that means that when they became mortal human beings, they were called of God himself ( prophets) or by other church authorities inspired of God ( church members, etc.).

However, the laws that govern Foreordination state that even if one is foreordained to do something, their agency still remains intact, and they can still choose to accept their calling or deny it by way of rebelling and/or not following the commandments.

How is this true though?? Because if at the end of the day Gods will shall prevail, and you are apart of God plan, then don't you HAVE to follow what he's commanded? Specifically and especially the prophets. I actually feel like the story of Jonah supports this. He was terrified of his calling but could not escape it no matter how hard he tried, until he finally just agreed to be the prophet he was (pre) chosen to be and go to Nineveh. So where's the agency?

[rewcox]

I am very confused by the idea of Foreordination vs. agency. As I've understood it in all of my studies of lds scripture, many spirits ( not even just prophets) were foreordained to their positions in the premortal spirit world. So that means that when they became mortal human beings, they were called of God himself ( prophets) or by other church authorities inspired of God ( church members, etc.).

However, the laws that govern Foreordination state that even if one is foreordained to do something, their agency still remains intact, and they can still choose to accept their calling or deny it by way of rebelling and/or not following the commandments.

How is this true though?? Because if at the end of the day Gods will shall prevail, and you are apart of God plan, then don't you HAVE to follow what he's commanded? Specifically and especially the prophets. I actually feel like the story of Jonah supports this. He was terrified of his calling but could not escape it no matter how hard he tried, until he finally just agreed to be the prophet he was (pre) chosen to be and go to Nineveh. So where's the agency?

He wasn't terrified, he didn't want to call the Assyrians to repentance. It was about forgiving.

[Stacy Oliver]

I am very confused by the idea of Foreordination vs. agency. As I've understood it in all of my studies of lds scripture, many spirits ( not even just prophets) were foreordained to their positions in the premortal spirit world. So that means that when they became mortal human beings, they were called of God himself ( prophets) or by other church authorities inspired of God ( church members, etc.).

However, the laws that govern Foreordination state that even if one is foreordained to do something, their agency still remains intact, and they can still choose to accept their calling or deny it by way of rebelling and/or not following the commandments.

How is this true though?? Because if at the end of the day Gods will shall prevail, and you are apart of God plan, then don't you HAVE to follow what he's commanded? Specifically and especially the prophets. I actually feel like the story of Jonah supports this. He was terrified of his calling but could not escape it no matter how hard he tried, until he finally just agreed to be the prophet he was (pre) chosen to be and go to Nineveh. So where's the agency?

1. There are bounds to our agency. God didn't allow a Lamanite to kill Ammon, and he didn't allow Balaam to curse the Israelites.

2. We cannot subvert God's will. Even if we don't do what the Lord wants, he has others who can take our place. " And I have given unto him the keys of the mystery of those things which have been sealed, even things which were from the foundation of the world, and the things which shall come from this time until the time of my coming, if he abide in me, and if not, another will I plant in his stead."

God knew that the Book of Lehi would be lost, so he prepared something else to take it's place.

3. The Lord knows the beginning and the end. He knows that some people will falter and he plans for it. He will will always prevail.

[Lizzy60]

Agency was alive and well in our pre-earth existence.

Just like we can disqualify ourselves from certain blessings and callings by our unrighteous choices, we could do the same before we came here. And the counter to that -- some qualified themselves, and were therefore foreordained, to certain callings here on earth.

[scottja]

Jonah was thrown overboard, and the Lord, because he loved Jonah, sent a big fish to save him from drowning, and carry him to dry land, so he could carry out his foreordained calling.

[zionminded]

Even though Jonah told the people of Nineveh "within forty days shall Nineveh be destroyed", and they actually repented, so they were not, in MY mind, shows that we with God can create and mold our future. Things are not set in stone. This concept makes God and us more powerful. The story also shows to what lengths God will take to create the future that is most meaningful for his plan for His children. Of course he lets us choose, but he is very active in helping us get there.

I also think he knows all outcomes. I also think he knows probabilities very well, but yes, he gives us the choice.