The U.S. Constitution and Mormonism
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THE CONSTITUTION
QUOTES FROM THE PROPHETS ON THE CONTITUTION Note: If you can't read it as is merely highlight the whole page and then you can.
LDS Prophets and the Constitution
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freedomforall
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- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
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freedomforall
- Gnolaum ∞
- Posts: 16479
- Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM
Re: LDS Prophets and the Constitution
Americans are Awakening to Our Awful Situation
An excerpt:
Current Socialist Goals
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Socialist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet Satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Socialist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the U.S. has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Socialist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Socialist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Socialist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive meaningless art."
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a world-wide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of "the big picture" of social studies. Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture -- education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Socialist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat.
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Socialist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally Reservation so the U.S. cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike.
An excerpt:
Current Socialist Goals
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Socialist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet Satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Socialist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the U.S. has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Socialist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Socialist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Socialist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive meaningless art."
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a world-wide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of "the big picture" of social studies. Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture -- education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Socialist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat.
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Socialist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally Reservation so the U.S. cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike.
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Rose Garden
- Don't ask . . .
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Re: LDS Prophets and the Constitution
Am I right in assuming these New Articles of Confederation are your creation? Unfortunately, they fall short of embodying any saving governmental power. They are merely a new face on the same monster.
The forefathers created a government that put checks on the governing power. However, they knew that the government they set up would only work for a moral people. This is, in fact, an eternal principle. All governments will only guarantee the liberty of individuals so long as the majority of individuals are moral. As people become amoral, they immediately begin to seek unrighteous power over others.
Principles are eternal truths that cannot be altered. Methods are ways of implementing those truths. For example, the principle is that ice cream must be stored below freezing. There are several methods to accomplish this. You can store it in a freezer, store it in a cooler with dry ice, or keep it outside in winter. As long as you understand the principle, you can determine the best method that works for you.
This solution to our governmental problems are merely a different method. Without understanding the underlying principles, it will have no more power than our current system.
If our current Bill of Rights is not enough to keep our nation free, why would a Bill of Rights on steroids be enough? If the principles the current one is founded on are not correct, then changing the method of doing things will make no difference at all. If you think ice cream should be kept warm, you are going to end up with a mess no matter what method you use.
The central principle of governance is that all people ultimately govern themselves. The best method to govern a people is as Joseph said: teach them correct principles and allow them to govern themselves. Unfortunately, it is the sad state of fallen man to refuse to govern himself and seek instead to govern others. Therefore, if you are to govern people according to the method Joseph suggested, you have to set up barriers for the individual against those who would seek to govern them. It is an exercise in the impossible, really, because democracy always rules the day. There is no way to accomplish this without divine intervention.
If I were to set up a system of governance, I would use different methods myself. However, in the end, in my own personal governance, there is only one thing that I ultimately trust in. I plead with the Lord endlessly to protect me from the tyranny of others. He alone has my trust. Certainly no man on earth does. He is the only hope I have of keeping tyrants at bay.
The forefathers created a government that put checks on the governing power. However, they knew that the government they set up would only work for a moral people. This is, in fact, an eternal principle. All governments will only guarantee the liberty of individuals so long as the majority of individuals are moral. As people become amoral, they immediately begin to seek unrighteous power over others.
Principles are eternal truths that cannot be altered. Methods are ways of implementing those truths. For example, the principle is that ice cream must be stored below freezing. There are several methods to accomplish this. You can store it in a freezer, store it in a cooler with dry ice, or keep it outside in winter. As long as you understand the principle, you can determine the best method that works for you.
This solution to our governmental problems are merely a different method. Without understanding the underlying principles, it will have no more power than our current system.
If our current Bill of Rights is not enough to keep our nation free, why would a Bill of Rights on steroids be enough? If the principles the current one is founded on are not correct, then changing the method of doing things will make no difference at all. If you think ice cream should be kept warm, you are going to end up with a mess no matter what method you use.
The central principle of governance is that all people ultimately govern themselves. The best method to govern a people is as Joseph said: teach them correct principles and allow them to govern themselves. Unfortunately, it is the sad state of fallen man to refuse to govern himself and seek instead to govern others. Therefore, if you are to govern people according to the method Joseph suggested, you have to set up barriers for the individual against those who would seek to govern them. It is an exercise in the impossible, really, because democracy always rules the day. There is no way to accomplish this without divine intervention.
If I were to set up a system of governance, I would use different methods myself. However, in the end, in my own personal governance, there is only one thing that I ultimately trust in. I plead with the Lord endlessly to protect me from the tyranny of others. He alone has my trust. Certainly no man on earth does. He is the only hope I have of keeping tyrants at bay.
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David13
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7081
- Location: Utah
Re: LDS Prophets and the Constitution
That's why the Constitution can be saved, but not in Washington.
That's why blood may be shed before we are thru'.
dc
That's why blood may be shed before we are thru'.
dc
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Rose Garden
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Re: LDS Prophets and the Constitution
Sure thing. Although I started another thread for that purpose: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=39386" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;LDS Anarchist wrote:Yes. I wrote the NAC. But I'm not sure how you can say they fall short or that they are a new face on the same monster. If the U.S. Constitution is a horse, it sounds like you are saying that the NAC is just a horse of a different color, even a yellow horse. But the NAC isn't a horse, it's a lion, and saying a lion is just a horse of a different color is just ridiculous. The NAC establishes a Confederacy of States, a truly federal government, abolishing the national government that exists under the U.S. Constitution. It is about as different from the U.S. Constitution as you can get. The whole thing checks governmental power at all levels, abolishing the national government, as I said, but also restraining State power. So, saying that there aren't checks and balances in the NAC doesn't make sense. It doesn't sound like you actually read the NAC, or perhaps you only read a small part. Did you read it all, or only part of it, or any of it? I ask because I'm willing to debate or discuss the NAC, but if you haven't read it, it is kind of pointless. It can be fairly easily shown that the NAC is superior to the U.S. Constitution in every area. Pick any part of the NAC and let's discuss it and then you'll see.Jezebel wrote:Am I right in assuming these New Articles of Confederation are your creation? Unfortunately, they fall short of embodying any saving governmental power. They are merely a new face on the same monster.
If our current Bill of Rights is not enough to keep our nation free, why would a Bill of Rights on steroids be enough?
Again, it seems like you didn't read the parts of the NAC that contain the Bill of Rights, but just read my words that it is a Bill of Rights on steroids. The NAC contains an unabridged Bill of Rights. It also leaves no wiggle room for false interpretation. The NAC also does away with the Supreme Court, foreign wars, standing armies, taxes, etc. To say the NAC is just another face on the same monster is preposterous. You must not have read it.Jezebel wrote:If our current Bill of Rights is not enough to keep our nation free, why would a Bill of Rights on steroids be enough?
To answer this post, I read perhaps the first half of the NAC and parts of the open debate. I wanted to get a comment in before I logged off last night. I feel like I read enough to get a handle on your position. I believe I read the Bill of Rights part in entirety. I didn't get most of the administrative stuff.
I stand by my comments so far, but I'll keep an open mind and keep reading. As of now, the only argument you can make against my comments is that I must not have read it. Let's see if that changes, eh?
