Children's Right to a Mother and Father

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Thinker
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Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Thinker »

Children have the right to not be legally denied a mother and father.
Yet, those supporting marriage based on same-sex sexual substitutes, do not respect this right.

Child of lesbian couple speaks out against gay marriage
http://www.dennyburk.com/child-of-lesbi ... -marriage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not only do we each need a mother and father TO EXIST, we also need them to thrive in this world...

"Children Need Both A Mother And A Father" Dr. A. Dean Byrd
http://www.narth.org/docs/needboth.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Why Children need both Mother-Love and Father-Love" Glenn T. Stanton
http://www.jashow.org/Articles/_PDFArch ... I0804G.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Mothers' and Fathers' Socializing Behaviors in Three Contexts: Links with Children's Peer Competence"
Pettit, Gregory S.; Brown, Elizabeth Glyn; Mize, Jacquelyn; Lindsey, Eric
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/se ... o=EJ563106" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Why Children Need a Mother and a Father" Bill Muehlenberg
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/10/ ... -a-father/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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mes5464
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by mes5464 »

This is the argument the Utah lawyer should have used to defend the Utah constitutional amendment defining a marriage as between a man and a woman.

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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Thinker »

mes5464 wrote:This is the argument the Utah lawyer should have used to defend the Utah constitutional amendment defining a marriage as between a man and a woman.
I hope and pray that those legally representing the state of UT will make an unbeatable case for the American democratic process and for family law the majority of Utan's support.

This is not just good for here and now, but especially for our children, grandchildren and further future generations!

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Rose Garden
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

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This situation is the result of our society's lack of support for the family. Husbands are too busy to care for their wives' needs. Mothers are too worn out to care for their children's needs. And everyone is too eager to point out the shortcomings in everyone else's families instead of just lending them a hand.

Homosexual marriage will be coming to Utah. It is the consequence of our failure to nourish our families. It is too late on the whole to change the tide, but it is not too late to fix the problems within your own family. God's justice will be coming upon us shortly. Hope that he finds you building up your own home.

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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Thinker »

Hi CalledToServe,
I'm not sure if you meant that post to me - or to everyone in general.
Still, I do think it is important to prioritize our most important roles, as mothers and fathers, to never neglect that - or when we do to repent (to change back to God/GOoD).

I was just telling my kids how when they become parents, they will make mistakes, just as we have, but hopefully, as my grandma said, each generation learns & gets a little better than the last.

May God bless you & your family.
Take care. :ymhug:

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Rose Garden
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Rose Garden »

Thanks, Thinker. I was posting to everyone in general. Our families are gifts to us to learn how to treat people.

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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by davedan »

The difference between marriage and civil union is the right to biologically procreate.

Here is WHY children must have the right to a mother and a father.

In addition to "nurture" issues, there are also huge "nature" problems. We are right at the scientific cusp of being able to have 2 women or 2 men reproduce using artificial Y oocytes and artificial female sperm.

There is big genetic dangers about same-gender couples biologically creating offspring together.

Fiannan
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Fiannan »

While I am generally opposed to same-sex marriage I will say that the typical marriage is more threatened by day-time talk show propagandists and reality shows heightening expectations in regards to materialistic "needs" than if Tom and Pedro down the street want to get hitched.

One wonders what is more destructive to a child, seeing his or her parents divorce or another child raised by a lesbian couple. What I mean to say here is if marriage and family is under attack gay marriage is akin to a firecracker and liberalized divorce laws are akin to an H-bomb.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Rose Garden »

Liberalized divorce laws are one of the spiritual forces that led to rampant homosexuality.

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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Lilli »

Fiannan wrote: One wonders what is more destructive to a child, seeing his or her parents divorce or another child raised by a lesbian couple. What I mean to say here is if marriage and family is under attack gay marriage is akin to a firecracker and liberalized divorce laws are akin to an H-bomb.

I agree. I believe divorce and remarriage (and even polygamy) are far worse on children, spouses, and society than SSM is. And I agree with CTS that SSM is because of all the divorce and remarriage happening. And yet we hear very little about divorce and remarriage from the church or people, yet everyone is up in arms about lesser evils like porn, SSA or SSM.

It seems like no one believes in having unconditional true love for their spouse anymore and keeping their promises through good and bad. Surely God knew that most marriages in or out of the church would have reasons to divorce, yet Christ still taught what he taught. I'm sure God believes in separation though, for safety purposes if need be if one has an adulterous and/or abusive spouse, til repentance occurs in this life or the next and they can be together again.

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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Thinker »

There is ALWAYS the need to balance loving oneself and loving others... and keeping priorities (God's will) in check.
I've been married over 15 years - and I will never say it is easy - sometimes we both have wanted to give up.
But we haven't! We know that our children are counting on us - they need us - & our family to be together.

When I became a parent, I had a major paradigme shift - I saw every person in this world as potentially my child - especially children.
I love them - I want the best for them.
I don't think any child should be legally denied a mother or father - as SSM pushes.
I feel the need, as Solomon wrote, to "Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction."
By "dumb" he meant, those who have no voice, like children (developing humans) - at any age (even prior to birth).

It seems to me that those who have fallen for homosexual agenda lies, have desires other than the welfare of children.
They also seem to be in utter denial of how each and every human being came to exist - besides dishonoring it.

Some, who have gotten caught up in the lies, have found a way to see and stand up for what is best for children...
“Every child need a mum” – A gay man speaks out against gay marriage"
“I don’t want to see children being engineered for same-sex couples where there is either a mom missing or a dad missing,” Mainwaring explained. “Somebody needs to stand up for the rights and needs of children in an age when the selfishness of adults seems to be trumping those rights.”
http://www.ynaija.com/every-child-need- ... -marriage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fiannan
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Fiannan »

Lilli wrote:
Fiannan wrote: One wonders what is more destructive to a child, seeing his or her parents divorce or another child raised by a lesbian couple. What I mean to say here is if marriage and family is under attack gay marriage is akin to a firecracker and liberalized divorce laws are akin to an H-bomb.

I agree. I believe divorce and remarriage (and even polygamy) are far worse on children, spouses, and society than SSM is. And I agree with CTS that SSM is because of all the divorce and remarriage happening. And yet we hear very little about divorce and remarriage from the church or people, yet everyone is up in arms about lesser evils like porn, SSA or SSM.

It seems like no one believes in having unconditional true love for their spouse anymore and keeping their promises through good and bad. Surely God knew that most marriages in or out of the church would have reasons to divorce, yet Christ still taught what he taught. I'm sure God believes in separation though, for safety purposes if need be if one has an adulterous and/or abusive spouse, til repentance occurs in this life or the next and they can be together again.
Obviously we disagree on the polygamy thing but on the other issues I agree. Divorce is far, far more dangerous to families and even Church strength and growth than almost trivial issues like same-sex marriage and even porn. What is more likely to cause a girl to question her sexuality, or become sexually promiscuous or try out being a stripper or porn star, Elton John being married to a man or her mother not being married? And I would say that a child of divorce is generally far worse off than a child born to a single mother if that mother is part of a supportive, extended family network. Divorce destroys the image of a child of what commitment and marriage is all about. It leaves that child vulnerable and angry and less likely to adopt the values of the parents.
As for the Church not making a big deal about divorce, or rarely dealing with it, it is probably in order to win the popularity contest with members who are divorced. Seriously, how can an issue condemned so much in the scriptures be given less importance than homosexuality which only affects a small number of people? And I would say again that with all the issues involved with divorce a child is more likely to become at least a lesbian, or if male a man one who does not want to ever take a chance on marriage, if her/his parents are divorced than if the parents are either two men married or two women.
A lot of these issues are in a feedback loop. Porn can entice some people to abandon traditional morality which can lead to promiscuity or lesbianism (note, I do not believe porn can make a man go gay but in the case of women I actually do), and if divorces take place either because of adultery or someone taking on a hyper self-righteous attitude of thrashing a spouse for looking at porn, then that just adds to the number of damaged single people out there who either become predatory or prey in a society that is on its death bed. And yes, it also means any offspring will be far more likely to re-supply the ranks of young people seeking employment through the sex business.

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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Thinker »

Fiannan and Lilli,
Straw man logical fallacy is making up an easily defeatable but secondary argument, while ignoring the 1st argument.
It is named such because it may seem like a credible argument, but because it's ignoring the orginal argument, is as if made of straw.

The argument is not about divorce.
I think it is well known that is a problem, but that is not the topic at hand in the court system.
Right now, they are trying to redefine marriage to be based on sexual fetishes - do you realize the implications of this??
They have already made attempts to legalize child pornography and the like.
Wake up and stand up for children!

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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Thinker »

Please defend marriage as defined between a man and a woman!

Kids of Gay Parents More Likely to Suffer Mental Problems, Study Shows
http://www.charismanews.com/us/48331-ki ... tudy-shows" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Researchers found that 17 percent of children with same-sex parents had serious emotional problems compared to 7 percent of children with a mom and dad."

Study: Children of Parents in Same-Sex Relationships Face Greater Risks
http://www.citizenlink.com/2012/06/11/s ... ter-risks/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"According to data from the New Family Structures Study, led by Mark Regnerus at the University of Texas at Austin, children raised by homosexual parents are dramatically more likely than peers raised by married heterosexual parents to suffer from a host of social problems. Among them are strong tendencies, as adults, to exhibit poor impulse control; suffer from depression and thoughts of suicide; need mental health therapy; identify themselves as homosexual; choose cohabitation; be unfaithful to partners; contract sexually transmitted diseases; be sexually molested; have lower income levels; drink to get drunk; and smoke tobacco and marijuana."

Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay ‘Marriage’ in Federal Court
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/laurett ... eral-court" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

KMCopeland
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by KMCopeland »

Children do have a right to a father and a mother. But unless you also advocate laws against divorce and single parenthood, which rob children of two parents too, that argument doesn't hold up as one against same sex marriage.

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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Thinker »

KMC,
There is a difference between circumstances (death of a spouse, divorce, abandonment)... and government stepping in to LEGALLY deny a child even the possibility of a mother or father.
It does hold up.
Marriage - has been defined as between a man and a woman because that is the union by which you, me, and all of humanity was conceived. :)
To suggest that mothers are not important, or fathers are optional is to dishonor a major aspect of us - and how we came to exist.
And common sense, besides research shows that a child needs a mother and father to thrive best psychologically and socially.

Before Obama began suffering from homosexual lobbying manipulation, he said (in 2008), “Too many fathers are M.I.A, too many fathers are AWOL, missing from too many lives and too many homes, They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it.”
And in 2010, he said, "Now, I can’t legislate fatherhood -- I can’t force anybody to love a child. But what we can do is send a clear message to our fathers that there is no excuse for failing to meet their obligations. What we can do is make it easier for fathers who make responsible choices and harder for those who avoid those choices. What we can do is come together and support fathers who are willing to step up and be good partners and parents and providers. And that’s why today we’re launching the next phase of our work to promote responsible fatherhood -- a new, nationwide Fatherhood and Mentoring Initiative."

Fathers are important.
Mothers are important.
To legally deny a child either is unethical.

There is also a strong argument against homosexual "marriage" because homosexual practices statistically and medically prove to be harmful to individuals and to society - and laws should not encourage behavior known to be so harmful.

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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Fiannan »

KMCopeland wrote:Children do have a right to a father and a mother. But unless you also advocate laws against divorce and single parenthood, which rob children of two parents too, that argument doesn't hold up as one against same sex marriage.
True, I am not sure what is best, to be a child in a family of divorce because the mom merely got tired of the dad and threw him out or to be a single woman who winds up pregnant by mistake and then raises the child.

KMCopeland
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by KMCopeland »

Fiannan wrote:
KMCopeland wrote:Children do have a right to a father and a mother. But unless you also advocate laws against divorce and single parenthood, which rob children of two parents too, that argument doesn't hold up as one against same sex marriage.
True, I am not sure what is best, to be a child in a family of divorce because the mom merely got tired of the dad and threw him out or to be a single woman who winds up pregnant by mistake and then raises the child.
Of those two less than ideal situations, I'd have to go with the latter. That child will wonder where daddy is, and that's no small thing. But he or she won't have been subjected to the agony of watching the two people he/she loves most in the world turning on each other. That child will come out ahead, sad as that seems.

Fiannan
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Fiannan »

KMCopeland wrote:
Fiannan wrote:
KMCopeland wrote:Children do have a right to a father and a mother. But unless you also advocate laws against divorce and single parenthood, which rob children of two parents too, that argument doesn't hold up as one against same sex marriage.
True, I am not sure what is best, to be a child in a family of divorce because the mom merely got tired of the dad and threw him out or to be a single woman who winds up pregnant by mistake and then raises the child.
Of those two less than ideal situations, I'd have to go with the latter. That child will wonder where daddy is, and that's no small thing. But he or she won't have been subjected to the agony of watching the two people he/she loves most in the world turning on each other. That child will come out ahead, sad as that seems.
I agree. A child may someday look down upon his/her mother for having sex outside of marriage and getting pregnant but the tragedy of divorce, especially in the context of a conservative religion, is that not only will they see the mom and dad hate each other (come on, gloss it over if you wish but most divorced people do not like each other as one has rejected, on a deep emotional level, the other) but will be reminded every time there is a sermon or talk about the wonders of love and marriage. One of the reasons many American men avoid marriage today, including LDS ones, is the fear of someday losing their home and children.

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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Thinker »

Again, there is a difference between divorce/abandonment/death leaving a child without a mom or dad ... and government legally denying a child a mother or father.

Fiannan
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Fiannan »

What do you mean about government? Does this relate to IVF or AI? In the USA fertility clinics have regulations but are private institutions -- some with open donation, others not.

As in death, the child only goes through a period of blaming God for taking his or her mom or dad.
In regards to divorce usually a child blames the parent they see as most responsible for the divorce. In my own experience I have seen fathers abandon their families and the children hate him for doing so. I have also seen cases where a mother throws a father out and then say it was because he was not righteous enough. In every one of those cases the children not only held long-standing hostility to the self-righteous mom, but also had a deep hatred for the Gospel.

KMCopeland
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by KMCopeland »

Fiannan wrote:One of the reasons many American men avoid marriage today, including LDS ones, is the fear of someday losing their home and children.
Extremely hard to believe. If I met a young man who was avoiding marriage for that reason I think I'd give him a good smack.

KMCopeland
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by KMCopeland »

Thinker wrote:Fiannan and Lilli, Straw man logical fallacy is making up an easily defeatable but secondary argument, while ignoring the 1st argument. It is named such because it may seem like a credible argument, but because it's ignoring the orginal argument, is as if made of straw.
Those two are not setting up straw men. You should stay away from that.
Thinker wrote:The argument is not about divorce. I think it is well known that is a problem, but that is not the topic at hand in the court system.
In other words, you don't want to talk about it. Which usually means you are fighting facing the fact that it's a good point.

Listen Thinker. You seem most sincere. Here's what I suggest.

Imagine what position the Savior might take on this. I believe he might counsel us all to treat every single one of our fellow human beings with lovingkindness, to set an example of righteousness ourselves, and then to back off trying to convince people our position, in this case on one thing, is the only position we can possibly allow everyone else to have.

You need to try to accept the fact that we are going to have to learn how to accept, and tolerate, same sex marriage. You will not change the mind of any homosexual by demanding that they change their mind, and you will not be able to drag along, no matter how eloquent your argument, any heterosexuals who have decided it's not their right to demand conformity either.

Your argument rests on your insistence that homosexuality is "based on fetishes," (a particularly bad argument), that the dreaded homosexuals are trying to legalize pornography, (another terrible argument since nobody has done more to mainstream pornography than heterosexuals have), and that homosexuality is bad for the children of homosexual parents. You want the argument that hetersexuals, with their rampant divorce, single parenthood, abuse, adultery, and various other things heterosexuals do that damge their children often beyond repair, to be a straw man, when it's the opposite of that. It's the argument that settles the question.

Have you ever heard of oppositional defiance? When you turn changing other people's minds about personal decisions they've usually carefully made, into your life's work, all you really accomplish is you galvanize their determination to prove you wrong, and often to teach you a lesson too. All you folks so up in arms about gay marriage really are playing an important part in advancing that cause. Far, far better to lead a quietly righteous life that includes extending the hand of love, acceptance, and fellowship to people you've decided are terrible sinners. Somebody, once upon a time, a couple thousand years ago, did a bang up job of modeling that particular form of soul-winning and heart-changing. It's a worthy example to follow.

KMCopeland
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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by KMCopeland »

Thinker wrote:Again, there is a difference between divorce/abandonment/death leaving a child without a mom or dad ... and government legally denying a child a mother or father.
There probably is, but what does that have to do with this?

I imagine you believe that gay marriage, or maybe gay adoption, is the government doing that. I just don't think it qualifies.

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Re: Children's Right to a Mother and Father

Post by Thinker »

KCK,
Obviously, government involvement in legally denying children a mother or father has everything to do with government redefining marriage to include homosexual distortions.

The only way you couldn't see that is if you were too focused on validating adult sexual deviations, to even consider how children are harmed.

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