Poll: illegal immigration

Discussion of principles relating to God's Law, Agency, Freedom, Liberty, the US constitution, and the Proper Role of Government.

Are you for...

Deportation
39
54%
Amnesty
6
8%
Something in between
27
38%
 
Total votes: 72

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M249Gunner
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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby M249Gunner » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:04 pm

The Indians didn't build a wall and look what happened to them...let's learn from their mistake.; -)
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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby SmallFarm » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:10 pm

Rights come from God not from citizenship papers. We should honor any persons right to come here and work, regardless of citizenship status. Furthermore, I don't believe in a test for citizenship, state an oath in front of witnesses and you are an American citizen.
~

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby Daryl » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:26 am

BrianM wrote:
ajax wrote:I am for the full dismantling of the welfare/warfare state, thus making immigration a non-issue.

yes, the poll needed an option like that.

Yes, I agree.

For someone to say they are hardline for either deportation or amnesty is missing an opportunity for the correct answer. Freedom.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby Daryl » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:29 am

SmallFarm wrote:Rights come from God not from citizenship papers. We should honor any persons right to come here and work, regardless of citizenship status. Furthermore, I don't believe in a test for citizenship, state an oath in front of witnesses and you are an American citizen.

I am not for citizenship. I am a free man on the land. I know who I am. I do not understand, yet I try to lift others up.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby freedomforall » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:06 am

M249Gunner wrote:The Indians didn't build a wall and look what happened to them...let's learn from their mistake.; -)

Had they had the Book of Mormon they would have known how to build fortifications for protection. ;)
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby GeeR » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:22 pm

sevenator wrote:Link to the story I provided was furnished by a man claiming to be the uncle of the 3 year-old in a post on another (non-religion based) forum that I frequent. I do not know if he is the mother or father's sibling.

From his post:

Our family needs prayers during this difficult time. His older brother was sitting right next to him during the accident and his last memory of his little brother will be of him dying at the scene. The driver was an uninsured illegal from mexico...The driver tried to walk away but was luckily detained by the good folks that stopped to help.


Exercise your own judgement, but you don't really think anyone in the media would report that the man was illegal, do you?


So my question now is, after this miscarriage of vital information that was withheld from us in this case by the media, was the recent shooting of the two deputy sheriffs in Utah by one Jose Angel Garcia-Juaregui an illegal alien also?

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby freedomforall » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:32 pm

SmallFarm wrote:Rights come from God not from citizenship papers. We should honor any persons right to come here and work, regardless of citizenship status. Furthermore, I don't believe in a test for citizenship, state an oath in front of witnesses and you are an American citizen.

So let's bring the President of Mexico up here and let him run the country. Is this what you're implying? How about a potential terrorist or a drug Cartel?
God says to seek honest, wise and good men for office. Most Americans don't even do this!
We let every person into the country that wants to be here and put them to work, you just might regret that choice.
I like the point made above, that the Indians didn't build a wall, and the country was flooded with immigrants, of whom, many turned ugly and killed the Indians for the want of their land and to feel superior. You think many illegals aren't causing havoc in our country? I'm not saying all of them are not good, but a good share of them are in our prisons. Check the numbers. Many more running the streets with knives, guns, and whatever else, scaring, intimidating or killing people, even each other, and forcing young US citizens to join in or be maimed or killed. Eventually, this country will be exactly what the illegals left behind because there is no control over moral and ethical decay among us.
Bad is like cancer, a very good person gets cancer and soon the cancer overtakes the whole body and destroys what was good. What then is buried is a carcass overrun with disease. Bad in this country is a disease to its good, upstanding citizens. Thus, eventually the whole country will be riddled with the bad and freedom and liberty will be dead, because the bad set up new rules, new ways of living, not assimilating into a republic they do not understand but a nation of dog eat dog.
Read the scriptures, they testify of how civilizations become corrupt and then God has to sweep them off the map. Jacob ch 5 is a great analogy of how bad overruns good and the effects from it.
If this nation is to remain free, remain the land of promise, a land that is desirable...there must be good, honest and wise people in it, keeping God's commandments,learning of and living under our Constitution, not making up their own rules and laws contrary to God's laws.
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby lundbaek » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:45 pm

Those who think righteousness and charity include allowing for open immigration would do well to investigate for themselves the people and the motives behind the fomenting of illegal immigration. And those who think that God-given rights include the right to freely come into and live and work in the United States would do well to learn what God wanted America to become and how many immigrants have detracted from that goal.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby freedomforall » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:36 pm

lundbaek wrote:Those who think righteousness and charity include allowing for open immigration would do well to investigate for themselves the people and the motives behind the fomenting of illegal immigration. And those who think that God-given rights include the right to freely come into and live and work in the United States would do well to learn what God wanted America to become and how many immigrants have detracted from that goal.

I wish people would learn to think outside the box. Thanks, Lundbaek, for your knowledge.
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REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby SmallFarm » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:02 pm

So you guys believe that those that left Europe should have stayed where they were and built up freedom there?
~

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby lundbaek » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:19 pm

Perhaps some of you do not recall when the Church advised members in other countries to not immigrate to the United States, but to stay ("bloom where you were planted") and help build up the Church in those countries. Having lived and worked about 11 years in various European countries I can attest to a noticeable lack of priesthood and strong families in those countries due to emigration to America. Then of course there was the Church statement published 10 June 2011 which one can read at http://newsroom.lds.org/article/immigra ... -statement which includes the statement "As a matter of policy, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discourages its members from entering any country without legal documentation, and from deliberately overstaying legal travel visas."

Something more one might consider. According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. That appears to have been the wish. Interesting it is that those statements were given specifically to Latter-day Saints. But instead of the precepts of the US Constitution being emulated in other countries, Americans are increasingly espousing and adopting tyrannical ideologies of other nations. One of my fears for America is that most immigrants, including many LDS immigrants coming into the United States now bring with them political persuasions that are destructive to our constitutional republic.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby GeeR » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:34 pm

lundbaek wrote:Perhaps some of you do not recall when the Church advised members in other countries to not immigrate to the United States, but to stay ("bloom where you were planted") and help build up the Church in those countries. Having lived and worked about 11 years in various European countries I can attest to a noticeable lack of priesthood and strong families in those countries due to emigration to America. Then of course there was the Church statement published 10 June 2011 which one can read at http://newsroom.lds.org/article/immigra ... -statement which includes the statement "As a matter of policy, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discourages its member from entering any country without legal documentation, and from deliberately overstaying legal travel visas."

Something more one might consider. According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. That appears to have been the wish. Interesting it is that those statements were given specifically to Latter-day Saints. But instead of the precepts of the US Constitution being emulated in other countries, Americans are increasingly espousing and adopting tyrannical ideologies of other nations. One of my fears for America is that most immigrants, including many LDS immigrants coming into the United States now bring with them political persuasions that are destructive to our constitutional republic.


Great insight, thanks!

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby abelchirino » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:55 am

I see a lot of simple minded people in this topic. Sorry for being honest. I more than anything believe in the honoring and sustaining the law and also in the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land. I do not agree with an amnesty either. Now it is true about the Church policy in regards to immigration, but that does not discourage immigration, only illegal or undocumented immigration. The first statement was not given as church policy. I believe our current immigration laws are a result of bad policies in the past. Illegal immigration is only a symptom. Nobody will ever say that immigration before the 1900's hurt America. The borders were relatively open during those times. Almost everybody recognizes that America was benefitted greatly by immigration. But for sometime now, after the first half of the 1900's, almost everybody feels that open borders would hurt America. Why is that? Why that inconsistency?

The main reason is the rise of the welfare state. I don't condone the welfare state, at any level (even for tax-payers). But the rise of the welfare state caused the great influx of illegals immigrants into this country. It is our fault that they're here. It has a lot to be with economics. In a true free-market society, contrary to many of the obtuse comments given in this topic, an open border would not mean an overwhelming influx of immigrants. That is what I love about the free-market-that it is a self-regulator. People will voluntarily regulate themselves. Some will decide to take the risk to come. Some will decide that the risk is too great and will decide not to come. As for those who come, some will eventually make it and will benefit the economy. Some will eventually fail and go back to their countries. Nobody will have a greater advantage than another. The welfare state encourages illegal immigration. Get rid of the welfare state, get rid of every unconstitutional law (like minimum wage laws, employee protection laws, government guaranteed benefits and privileges-EVERYTHING UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!) and you will see the free-market will regulate your borders better than you could.

Anyone advocating anything close to a closed border does not understand true freedom nor will his ideas fix anything. Go to the root of the problem-THE WELFARE STATE! Abide by the Constitution! That is the real solution. Unfortunately we have rejected the Constitution and have allowed ourselves to be seduced by unprincipled politicians. Under our current unconstitutional system, it is a sad reality that we need "cheap labor". If we were to artificially get rid of what some label as "cheap labor", then we would see prices rising overwhelmingly, unemployment rising overwhelmingly and businesses either closing or outsourcing at an overwhelming level as well. If we were to get rid of unconstitutional labor and the welfare state, then we wouldn't have any illegal immigration issues. There would be no need of restrictive immigration laws.

Now the scriptures make it clear, immigration could also be, in part, a result of the rise of wickedness and unbelief in the American society. The Lord states it in 3rd Nephi.

Unfortunately we haven't learned in this country, we try to attack the symptoms and we continue to make things worst. Seek the real root of the problem.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby lundbaek » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:24 pm

" Abide by the Constitution! That is the real solution." says abelchirino. Abide by which constitution ? The original Constitution ? The constitution as amended in accordance with Article V ? Or the constitution as it has been changed in the minds of many by the "informal amendment process" including "presidential actions, Supreme Court decisions, activities of political parties, and custom", as stated in, of all places, the BSA Citizenship In The Nation" merit badge handbook ? I have yet to encounter a serious and reasonably well educated supporter of amnesty and open borders who does not claim that the US Constitution permits open border immigration and amnesty.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby abelchirino » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:40 pm

lundbaek wrote:" Abide by the Constitution! That is the real solution." says abelchirino. Abide by which constitution ? The original Constitution ? The constitution as amended in accordance with Article V ? Or the constitution as it has been changed in the minds of many by the "informal amendment process" including "presidential actions, Supreme Court decisions, activities of political parties, and custom", as stated in, of all places, the BSA Citizenship In The Nation" merit badge handbook ? I have yet to encounter a serious and reasonably well educated supporter of amnesty and open borders who does not claim that the US Constitution permits open border immigration and amnesty.


Well I'm not a supporter of amnesty. I'm against that idea. Amnesty could be as harmful for our economy as a complete deportation could be. Now when I mentioned the Constitution and our nation now living under an unconstitutional system, I assumed everyone would understand that I meant the Constitution in the language of our Founding Fathers. I apologize for assuming too much. Now if you read the Constitution carefully, it does not permit nor prohibit an open border. The Constitution was not intended to lay out the nation's immigration policy. It only lays out that the Federal Government has the power to make laws regarding immigration and naturalization. Obviously our elected leaders (and the ones that were supposed to be elected by our State legislatures) can write immigration laws however they see fit, according to the Constitution.

But in many respects, immigration is an issue of principle. I am a firm believer of the free-market, as I stated previously. I believe that when you allow businesses to compete, without restrictions from government, under a healthy and free market, the results will always be in favor of the consumer. That is why protectionist laws (protecting American businesses from foreign businesses) have always hurt the economy and the consumer. The government should not be in the business of choosing winners and losers. I believe the principle is the same for foreigners. Under a true free-market, with no welfare or unconstitutional laws, privileges, protections or benefits, people will truly succeed based on their worth and output. If a foreigner cannot perform a job as good as you and as efficient as you, then he will not get the job nor steal it. The problem is that we have made employment so expensive for employers. So many unconstitutional laws have been passed that just put so many unnecessary burdens on employers. The problems are increased when you consider that some jobs just can't be expensive.

Now under our unconstitutional system, it was necessary to overregulate who enters into our borders. Why? Because when you live under a welfare state, with many unconstitutional privileges, benefits and protections, you cannot afford to have an open or semi-open border. You have to regulate everything. Why do you think that in some socialist and communist countries, people are not allowed to move even within the country freely. Because you have to know who and where and when these unconstitutional privileges, protections and benefits are being granted.

So as the welfare state rises, and more unconstitutional laws are passed, businesses that cannot afford to pay for expensive or unconstitutional labor have to look for the so-called cheap labor. Now this isn't only the employers' faults-it's our fault too. Because we have allowed employment to become so expensive by allowing unconstitutional measures to be passed, and since we still want our favorite products and services to be as cheap as possible, these employers are forced to seek alternative methods. One of these methods is employing individuals who are not eligible for these unconstitutional positions, privileges, benefits and protections (I'm not talking about welfare here) in order to spend less in hiring and therefore charge less when offering their products and services. The other method is the infamous practice of outsourcing to countries in which labor is not nearly as expensive as in the United States (again because of our unconstitutional labor). So we have brought this upon ourselves.

The third thing is that by allowing the welfare state to rise, as it has, you make it only logical to relocate to the United States. I mean think about it, if you lived under meager circumstances for x reasons, and you know you can receive so many free things by just relocating to a different country, wouldn't you be tempted to move to that place? So immigration isn't the problem itself. It is only a symptom. As gun violence is only a symptom. As high percentage of uninsured Americans is only a symptom. As high medical costs are only a symptom. You need to go to the real issue. To the true source. Cut the problem by the root and you will get rid of all your other symptoms.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby abelchirino » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:51 pm

Now I do agree with some previous comments about illegal immigrants coming into this country with leftist beliefs. That is true. Me being a Hispanic, though born in the United States, can testify that the majority of Hispanics favor leftist policies. I did too, for a long time. It's hard not to fall for that when TV promotes these ideas, when music promotes these ideas, when you hear these things at home or among people you and in public schools. But I awoke from all that and now I can see the truth.

Unfortunately, the majority of Hispanics still do believe in leftist policies. This doesn't mean that all do though, I know of many who are completely against anything from the "left" and feel a great love for this country-even some who are illegal. But it is true, I believe that this whole immigration issue is being used by unprincipled politicians (that have already sold out). They know that if they are able to grant amnesty that they can use the millions of now illegal immigrants as leverage.

But as for what I said before, I strongly encourage to look Austrian economist Milton Friedman up. He was a very wise man and very outspoken. He died already though but he has talked about the immigration issue and has some good thoughts on the matter.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby lundbaek » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:12 pm

No need to apologize, abelchirino, for not being more specific about which constitution. I was being nitpicking only to make the point that we need to be careful when speaking about the Constitution. I was off on a tangent for reasons of my own. I simply want more people to realize what has become of our Constitution and how it is being distorted from what I believe the Lord, who established it by the hands of wise men, intended it to be understood. I appreciate your thoughtful analysis of the illegal immigration situation. It is worthy of careful consideration. I do not understand all of the issues associated with immigration, even though my wife went thru all the hassle and immigrated to the USA after we were married in Europe. And I never objected to the "hassle", just the incompetence of certain officials along the way.

My biggest concern Re. immigration, legal or illegal, is that most immigrants, including many LDS immigrants coming into the United States, now bring with them political persuasions that are destructive to our constitutional republic. But I think that could be said of many current Church members in America. And I do believe illegal immigration has been and continues to be fomented by people intent on destroying America's culture and siphon off its wealth. Their intent is to increase the size of the socialist voting bloc by securing voting rights for immigrants of socialist persuasion and make a shambles of America to grease the skids for a global government to take us over.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby abelchirino » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:40 pm

You're right in that. I've seen how much indoctrination occurs in this country and in the Hispanic community, everything is portrayed in such a way that kids grow up liking the Democratic Party at best, and wanting Socialism/Communism at worst. Nobody talks about the Constitution, nor of the Free-Market nor of the Welfare state truthfully (even among members). And many grow up hating the so-called "rich", hating the American way of life and hating the "white man" who they see as an oppressor. I say that because I have seen it in the media, in the entertainment industry and in the public schools. It is one big conspiracy. It isn't so much that they come already hating these things, (if they hated them they wouldn't come) but it's because they continually indoctrinated by that type of rhetoric. I had to learn about all of this on my own. Nobody talks about the globalist conspiracy.

Now that I have seen all of this with my own eyes, I feel very concerned that the majority in the Hispanic community (specially those that are LDS) are completely unaware of all of this. It worries me because I know that they will only be used as leverage in order to, as you say, advance the globalist agenda. My relatives always argue with me and insult me because of what I believe now. Its crazy how deceived they are. I'm just thankful that my Heavenly Father has allowed me to see this before history catches up with us. That is why, even though my ancestors do not come from the same place than those of white Americans, I nevertheless feel a great love and respect for the Founding Fathers.

Now I've heard other solutions. Joel Skousen supports a form of sponsor system, where people come only when they will be sponsored by an America citizen and the sponsor makes sure to keep them accountable, and that they have appropriate housing and a job (so that the Government does not have to provide anything). But this again is if we were to live under the welfare state or if we were to still have many unconstitutional laws. That's why I believe that going back to the Constitutional, according to Founding Fathers, could be the solution to our current immigration issue.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby lundbaek » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:07 pm

From abelchirino's last 2 posts: "the majority in the Hispanic community (specially those that are LDS) are completely unaware of all of this." (meaning, as I understand him the globalist conspiracy); "the majority of Hispanics favor leftist policies"; "the majority of Hispanics still do believe in leftist policies."; "they will only be used as leverage in order to, as you say, advance the globalist agenda." I believe that could be said about most members of the Church regardless of their national or ethnic background.

"Nobody talks about the Constitution," And nobody talks about the globalist conspiracy (secret combinations) either. Well, it is clear to me that the Church is not gonna make any overt effort to educate its members on these subjects. Folks, it is up to us to do what we are able to bring members to an awareness of their "sacred duty to honour the Constitution and to honour freedom", as President Packer expressed it a few years ago.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby lundbaek » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:19 am

Well, here we are now just over a year and a half later, and just look at the current so-called "refugee" crisis that has been fomented.... by WHOM ? And for WHAT PURPOSE ? Of course we have to treat these new immigrants with kindness, compassion and civility. From my understanding and observations, Americans generally treated war prisoners with kindness, compassion and civility. Not always, but certainly much better than American POWs were often treated. They were treated as criminals by enemies of certain cultures. And, BTW, Britain and European countries are currently experiencing the same refugee crises. I only wish all Americans understood that this crisis has been fomented to help bring about great changes in America.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby Vision » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:43 am

RaVaN wrote:God gives the right and no one else.



Does God create Nations that draw boundaries? IF so why does the Earth only have one side?

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby Robert Sinclair » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:58 am

The best long term solution is to set up the standard and ensign for all nations to treat their own, giving to the poor homes and land, food and raiment, living the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so that all nations of this earth, might see how to be, and how to treat their people.

That way no need for walls anymore between nations of this earth that keep the commandments of God.♡
"Seek to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion."

"With clean hands and a pure heart"

A happier people ever created by the hand of God, no poor among you, of your own freewill. ♡ :)

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby lundbaek » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:51 pm

A couple of years ago in a General Conference Priesthood meeting Elder Robert Hale stated that "We are role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights." I understood that to mean that we Latter-day Saints are to strive to establish and promote freedom as intended by the establishment of the US Constitution.

Furthermore, according to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would eventually apply to "all flesh" and "be established forever". Again, I believe we were expected to build a nation that would inspire changes in other nations that would allow their inhabitants to enjoy their God-given and unalienable rights.

I do not believe it was even intended to include just giving to the poor homes and land, food and raiment, but rather helping them to help themselves.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby commonwealth » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:54 pm

They can live here for 10 years, paying US, state, and local taxes all the while, but they get no government benefits during that time. After 10 years, if they're still around, they can then become naturalized and receive benefits. They benefit from having a "free" society and having work, we benefit from having workers, and not having to subsidize them.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby GeeR » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:11 pm

lundbaek wrote:Well, here we are now just over a year and a half later, and just look at the current so-called "refugee" crisis that has been fomented.... by WHOM ? And for WHAT PURPOSE ? Of course we have to treat these new immigrants with kindness, compassion and civility. From my understanding and observations, Americans generally treated war prisoners with kindness, compassion and civility. Not always, but certainly much better than American POWs were often treated. They were treated as criminals by enemies of certain cultures. And, BTW, Britain and European countries are currently experiencing the same refugee crises. I only wish all Americans understood that this crisis has been fomented to help bring about great changes in America.


The following editorial was in my daily newspaper Sept. 15, 2015 that addresses lundbaek's concerns:

"What point is there in being filthy rich, the elite 0.1 percent, if you can’t herd diverse groups of people into a gladiatorial arena to watch them fight to the death for survival? This, in essence, is what I believe is going on worldwide as we count down the last days of the Age of Men, before we are all replaced by robots and artificial intelligence, according to the New York Times and Washington Post. Sounds cynical, but how else do you explain so any western nations committing virtual suicide by implementing policies guaranteed to lead to racial and ethnic strife, breakdown of societal order, and widespread poverty?

"Western Europe, including England, is becoming unrecognizable as a tsunami of hundreds of thousands of Syrians, Libyans, Iraqis, et al, pours out of their homelands with open hands outstretched. Donald Trump and the Pope believe the U.S. should help shoulder the burden, but how many refugees are the neighboring countries of Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, and UAE taking in? Zero! But don’t forget that these are America’s “allies,” who’ve sacrificed their best and brightest young “men” to constitute an army of rapists and murderers called ISIS, which enjoys raping Christian women to death and sodomizing young boys.

"England is taking in about 300,000 immigrants per year, mainly from the Middle and Far East, pursuing Tony Blair’s plan to Balkanize the nation. France continues to welcome an endless stream of Muslims, despite growing problems with disgruntled jobless third and fourth-generation immigrants. A poll last year found 27 percent of people aged 18-24 supportive of ISIS. The French military is preparing for war to take back France’s own cities.

"Sweden, once the model socialist state, is now a basket case. Its female head of immigration is openly pro-jihadist. The Swedish government is considering forcing Swedes to make their garages available to Islamic immigrants with no place to live. The incidence of rape is up over 1,400 percent since the 70’s when Sweden began to favor Muslim immigrants.

"Towns of 1,000 people in Germany are awakening to more than 2,000 refugees suddenly encamped in their cities. The native Germans are now second-class citizens: Women are not allowed to wear shorts or skirts lest they offend Muslim sensibilities. Those who criticize the open-borders policy are subject to stiff fines. Tensions are rising.

"Living demon, George Soros, is wanted by numerous countries on felony charges, yet he operates freely in the U.S., giving over $30 million last year to the Black Lives Matter organization. That group was founded by a trio of militant black lesbians who cite Assata Shakur, a radical feminist and Marxist revolutionary, convicted of murdering a New Jersey state trooper, as their inspiration. Shakur escaped from prison in 1979 with the help of Bill Ayers’ Communist organization, Weather Underground, which aided her flight to Cuba. Ayers, the president’s old friend and mentor, is the ghost-writer of Obama’s memoir 'Dreams from my Father.'

"Soros shares common interests with Congress’ National Endowment for Democracy, both spending billions to destabilize and loot the Ukraine, install neo-Nazis to power, and provoke Putin to the brink of war. Meanwhile, Russia’s military is fighting ISIS and bringing humanitarian aid to Syria’s survivors, as our military “accidentally” drop shipments of weapons and equipment into ISIS-held territory.
The late prime minister of England, Margaret Thatcher, once quipped, “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” But that “problem” was recast as the Holy Grail by a husband and wife team of Columbia University sociologists, Cloward and Piven, who saw in the welfare system (operating synergistically with an open borders policy, eco-fascism, and a derivative-based economic collapse) a means to bankrupt western civilization and drive humanity over the cliff—much to the amusement of the 0.1 percent crowd."

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby GeeR » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:17 pm

Also check out: "5 Things the Media Won't Report About the Refugee Crisis"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkIocH91j0w

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freedomforall
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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby freedomforall » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:42 pm

I say had the American people known their Constitution and were determined to keep it alive and defend it, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in. We wouldn't have programs geared to tear us down, for us to be robbed by government. We wouldn't have Obamacare, illegal immigration and open borders. People would still be required to be self reliant in the Great USA as were the immigrants long ago that came to America, legally, and started businesses and found ways to make a living, having dreams and free enterprise to accomplish them.
In short, had people known the Declaration of Independence, and used it the way it is meant, we wouldn't have a crooked government today. Obama and earlier previous despots would have never made it into office.

Prov. 28:28
28 When the wicked rise, men hide themselves: but when they perish, the righteous increase.

Also:

Prov. 29:2
2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn

Does this sound familiar?

3 Ne. 6:30
30 And they did set at defiance the law and the rights of their country; and they did covenant one with another to destroy the governor, and to establish a king over the land, that the land should no more be at liberty but should be subject unto kings.

Who is "they" in our case?

And this?

Alma 46:10

10 Ye, we see that Amalickiah, because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words, that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly; yea, and to seek to destroy the church of God, and to destroy the foundation of liberty which God had granted unto them, or which blessing God had sent upon the face of the land for the righteous’ sake.

Can this be applied to us as well?

Alma 47:35
35 And it came to pass that Amalickiah sought the favor of the queen, and took her unto him to wife; and thus by his fraud, and by the assistance of his cunning servants, he obtained the kingdom; yea, he was acknowledged king throughout all the land, among all the people of the Lamanites, who were composed of the Lamanites and the Lemuelites and the Ishmaelites, and all the dissenters of the Nephites, from the reign of Nephi down to the present time.

Here is what God intended for us to be doing"

D&C 98:5-9
5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.
8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

Moral decay, wickedness and apathy has headed our country down the wrong path and now, IMHO, God mourns too. Another society that He provided freedom and liberty to has gone to the evil secret combinations. And for what...the taking from the "haves" and giving it to the "have nots." This isn't freedom, it is, wickedly acquired, legalized plunder.
Soon, the Great and Powerful America will reap the whirlwind for her lack of obedience to God's laws and throwing away His kindness and mercy.

SEE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5lQq0VSM0
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

lundbaek
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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby lundbaek » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:47 pm

And to think that Mormons, had they been united in upholding the principles of the Constitution as it was meant to be understood and determined to suffer not that the murderous combinations get above us, could have led the charge in preventing this disaster.

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby GeeR » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:34 pm

lundbaek wrote:And to think that Mormons, had they been united in upholding the principles of the Constitution as it was meant to be understood and determined to suffer not that the murderous combinations get above us, could have led the charge in preventing this disaster.


So true lundbaek, we were expected to be the leaven that would leaven the whole lump (world). Matt. 3:33. I'm wondering even in this late hour if it is still prophetically possible to still fill that role?

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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Postby freedomforall » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:12 pm

Isn't it about time for the Elders of Israel to step forward and save the Constitution? Our king has declared his defiance toward congress; he has said he'll do as he likes, has changed laws and as far as I know...spoken of a third term in office, so he can do what? Does the three letters, NWO, mean anything to us?
Isn't this the last thread about to be severed?

I pray God will hear and act on fervent prayers offered up to Him for deliverance.

Or do we have to enter Rev 13:7,8 first?

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Think of it. The "beast" spoken of in verse 4
1) will have power (false priesthoods) to rule over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
2) all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, except
3) those whose names are written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Question is...who of us have our name in the book of life?
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!


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