"Self-Awareness Groups"

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Steve Clark
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"Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by Steve Clark »

I am starting a new thread as a take off from some things in another. Bircher typed up a copy of a letter from the First Presidency which states:
Church letterhead
May 11, 2001

To: General Authorities and the following priesthood leaders: Area Authority Seventies; Stake, Mission, and District Presidents; Bishops and Branch Presidents

*Underlined* Self-Awareness Groups (to be read in sacrament meeting) *end underline"

Dear Brethren:

It has come to our attention that some commercial enterprises promising heightened self-esteem, improved family relationships, increased spirituality and the like by participating in their programs are implying Church endorsement. Such claims are untrue and unfounded. *italicized* The CHurch has not endorsed any such enterprise. Neither should the Church's failure to formally challenge any such enterprise coming to its attention be construed as a tacit endorsement or stamp of approval. *end italicization*

We repeat the counsel set for in the Church Handbook of Instruction, page 157:

"Church members should not participate in groups that:

1. Challenge religious and moral values or advocate unwarranted confrontation with spouse or family members as a means of reaching s one's potential
2. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies
3. Foster physical contact among participants
4. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours
5. Encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings
6. Cause a husband and wife to be paired with other parties"

We strongly counsel against affiliation with any such group and warn against believing any claim of Church approval, tacit or otherwise, by any private organization offering "experiential" or "empowerment" training.

Sincerely yours,

Gordon B Hinckley (Signed)
Thomas S Monson (Signed)
Jame E Faust (Signed)
The First Presidency
Here are my posts from the other thread:
To me this sounds more aimed at groups such as "The Great Life Foundation" and "Impact Training" here in Salt Lake. Pretty much all of my wife's immediate and extended family has gone through the "training." I just asked one of them if this letter describes the events they went through and the response was "Yes, I would say that The Great Life Foundation would fall squarely in this description."

I have some funny and terrible stories about these organizations....
I have never gone through the course myself, but have witnessed first hand several family members who did. I'll share briefly what I experienced. The leaders are just a handful of people who run the show. As I recall, one was an active member of the church whom I didn't care for, another was a lesbian minister as I recall, and the others don't stick out in my mind. These leaders are involved in the trainings, but former graduates also volunteer to help out. There are 3 levels of the training. They are supposed to lead you through a path of self enlightenment and awareness. I actually agree with a lot of what I came to see there, but that was overshadowed by the things I disagreed with.

The first session is done over a weekend and starts with one of the leaders getting into peoples faces yelling and making them feel like crap. It goes on for several hours into the night, often not getting done until 3-4 AM. The participants are encouraged to share their inner most secrets with each other to build a bond amongst the group. They are given challenges to accomplish and go through a bunch of games to learn certain lessons that should be applied to life. I believe the first session is referred to as the "awakening." After the first weekend there is a little graduation ceremony where the group is taken into a darkly lit room while calming music is played, and they are to remain there against the outside wall of the room with their eyes closed as friends and family members come in and stand before them. They are supposed to soak in the love and good energies of those around them. At one point the person leading the graduation tells the group to open their eyes and greet their family. The whole thing had a feeling of a mock baptism to me. They were killing their pre-training person and almost covenanting to start a new life based around the concepts they had learned.

The second phase is called "The Brilliance Within." As I recall the focus is centered on showing people the power they have within themselves to accomplish the desires of their hearts. It shows them the connection they have with the universe - it's a very "The Secret" kind of feeling. If I recall correctly, during this part of the experience there is a large focus on unconditional love and getting to the inner child. Groups are encouraged to show their love to the others in the group by hugging, cuddling, whatever. There is a strict rule against getting involved in a romantic relationship with anyone in the group for like 90 days after. Around this part of the training there were a lot of problems among spouses as the wives/husbands were having what I feel as completely inappropriate relationships with members of their groups. There is also an exercise that gets people completely outside their comfort level. Grown men dressing in drag seemed to be a favorite. I don't recall much more about this step. At the completion of part II there is another graduation similar to the first. This time the members come up with a "Brilliance Statement" and share it. It's basically a mixture of exciting adjectives - something like "I am a bright sensitive caring powerful man who inspires people by love passion and courage." After someone says their statement everyone shouts back "Yes you are!" and then the person responds "Thank you. I know!" It was all pretty stupid IMO.

The third phase was outside on weekends and involved team building exercises and courses. I don't recall the specifics of it.

All of this, besides the graduation ceremonies which I attended was done behind closed doors. There is a great deal of secrecy involved in all of this. The participants are sworn to not divulge things that go on. This of course is so you won't spoil the surprise for people who go through later (even if you promise to them that you will absolutely never participate in the program. I tried).

During any part of the program the leaders issue challenges to stretch the group such as "Your group needs to find 50 people to sign up for this program by tomorrow. If you don't do it, you are not living your life right." The program by the way is thousands of dollars.

I was particularly intrigued with some of the tactics that were used to get recruits and during the trainings. There was a specific rule against food and water during the sessions which would go almost all night. I'm pretty sure sleep/food deprivation is a pretty effective brainwashing tool. I went to some meeting at the behest of my mother in law where I was singled out and asked questions about why I didn't love myself to sign up for the training. That seemed to be a common theme. If you didn't go through their program you didn't love yourself. My wife actually went through the 3 parts, and at every stage people kept asking me if I was excited for my new wife. I was actually getting really pissed off at this question, because I liked my old wife just fine - enough to promise myself to her for eternity in fact. Throughout the experience there were some real challenges for us. There was a great barrier between us because she couldn't share anything that was going on, and everyone there was telling her that I didn't love myself enough to go through it. She also didn't take well to some of the things that kept being forced on her, and will absolutely admit she was worse after the experience. It seemed that this place was a breeding ground for gays/lesbians (is that possible). It seemed that people with issues like that were drawn to this place where they could be accepted and encouraged to follow whatever path they chose. I also remember quite a few people who went inactive after this because they discovered that the Church wasn't for them.

Back to the secrecy - after some of my wife's family went through the program, they had a few meetings amongst themselves to discuss matters of deep doctrine with their new found light. I was anxious to sit in on these, as I like getting into some meaty gospel discussions, but was not welcome because I hadn't gone through the course and therefore couldn't comprehend the things they wished to discuss.

Some people who take this course swear by it, that it is life changing. I have heard it described many times that it is a course that will teach you 20 years worth of life's lessons in a few weeks. For me, it fits exactly with the organizations that we are counseled to avoid.

-SC
Just wanted to open this up for discussion. What do you guys think of these organizations? I am curious to hear others' first hand experiences.

Steve Clark
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1072
Location: Bluffdale, UT

Re: "Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by Steve Clark »

One more thing that came to my mind as I was re-reading the letter from the First Presidency. The first point about challenging religious and moral values.... One of the first things that is drilled into the participants is that everything is basically morally relative. The things that we perceive as "good" and "right" aren't necessarily going to be good for other people, and that everyone should just be true to themselves...

ShineOn
captain of 100
Posts: 581

Re: "Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by ShineOn »

ARG! Who gets involved in stuff like this? Everywhere I turn there's some new organization that dupes a bunch of members.

I thought it was widely known that one tactic of cults is to get physically and mentally exhausted so that you lower your defenses to them. And, unless you are in professional therapy or the army, the only reason people want to create an intense emotional conflict that you have to overcome is to create an emotional bond from trauma with the leaders and other participants.

and for anyone to think the church would endorse this....where are people's minds?

so sick. sick sick sick

natasha
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2184

Re: "Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by natasha »

Oh boy...that's for me...just be true to myself...but first I gotta find out who I am. Sorry! Just joking...I had to laugh reading all about that group. I have always heard the church "discourage" any kind of group where you "spill your guts" so to speak. You know, we are just human....and to be able to keep all that stuff we hear about others under wraps would be a hard task! I like seeing people and not thinking about something "private" they have revealed and will probably regret revealing one day. I think I'll stick to trying to immerse myself in the gospel!

HeirofNumenor
the Heir Of Numenor
Posts: 4229
Location: UT

Re: "Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by HeirofNumenor »

Truth -
I have never gone through the course myself, but have witnessed first hand several family members who did. I'll share briefly what I experienced. The leaders are just a handful of people who run the show. As I recall, one was an active member of the church whom I didn't care for, another was a lesbian minister as I recall, and the others don't stick out in my mind. These leaders are involved in the trainings, but former graduates also volunteer to help out. There are 3 levels of the training. They are supposed to lead you through a path of self enlightenment and awareness. I actually agree with a lot of what I came to see there, but that was overshadowed by the things I disagreed with.

The first session is done over a weekend and starts with one of the leaders getting into peoples faces yelling and making them feel like crap. It goes on for several hours into the night, often not getting done until 3-4 AM. The participants are encouraged to share their inner most secrets with each other to build a bond amongst the group. They are given challenges to accomplish and go through a bunch of games to learn certain lessons that should be applied to life. I believe the first session is referred to as the "awakening." After the first weekend there is a little graduation ceremony where the group is taken into a darkly lit room while calming music is played, and they are to remain there against the outside wall of the room with their eyes closed as friends and family members come in and stand before them. They are supposed to soak in the love and good energies of those around them. At one point the person leading the graduation tells the group to open their eyes and greet their family. The whole thing had a feeling of a mock baptism to me. They were killing their pre-training person and almost covenanting to start a new life based around the concepts they had learned.

The second phase is called "The Brilliance Within." As I recall the focus is centered on showing people the power they have within themselves to accomplish the desires of their hearts. It shows them the connection they have with the universe - it's a very "The Secret" kind of feeling. If I recall correctly, during this part of the experience there is a large focus on unconditional love and getting to the inner child. Groups are encouraged to show their love to the others in the group by hugging, cuddling, whatever. There is a strict rule against getting involved in a romantic relationship with anyone in the group for like 90 days after. Around this part of the training there were a lot of problems among spouses as the wives/husbands were having what I feel as completely inappropriate relationships with members of their groups. There is also an exercise that gets people completely outside their comfort level. Grown men dressing in drag seemed to be a favorite. I don't recall much more about this step. At the completion of part II there is another graduation similar to the first. This time the members come up with a "Brilliance Statement" and share it. It's basically a mixture of exciting adjectives - something like "I am a bright sensitive caring powerful man who inspires people by love passion and courage." After someone says their statement everyone shouts back "Yes you are!" and then the person responds "Thank you. I know!" It was all pretty stupid IMO.

The third phase was outside on weekends and involved team building exercises and courses. I don't recall the specifics of it.

All of this, besides the graduation ceremonies which I attended was done behind closed doors. There is a great deal of secrecy involved in all of this. The participants are sworn to not divulge things that go on. This of course is so you won't spoil the surprise for people who go through later (even if you promise to them that you will absolutely never participate in the program. I tried).

During any part of the program the leaders issue challenges to stretch the group such as "Your group needs to find 50 people to sign up for this program by tomorrow. If you don't do it, you are not living your life right." The program by the way is thousands of dollars.

I was particularly intrigued with some of the tactics that were used to get recruits and during the trainings. There was a specific rule against food and water during the sessions which would go almost all night. I'm pretty sure sleep/food deprivation is a pretty effective brainwashing tool. I went to some meeting at the behest of my mother in law where I was singled out and asked questions about why I didn't love myself to sign up for the training. That seemed to be a common theme. If you didn't go through their program you didn't love yourself. My wife actually went through the 3 parts, and at every stage people kept asking me if I was excited for my new wife. I was actually getting really pissed off at this question, because I liked my old wife just fine - enough to promise myself to her for eternity in fact. Throughout the experience there were some real challenges for us. There was a great barrier between us because she couldn't share anything that was going on, and everyone there was telling her that I didn't love myself enough to go through it. She also didn't take well to some of the things that kept being forced on her, and will absolutely admit she was worse after the experience. It seemed that this place was a breeding ground for gays/lesbians (is that possible). It seemed that people with issues like that were drawn to this place where they could be accepted and encouraged to follow whatever path they chose. I also remember quite a few people who went inactive after this because they discovered that the Church wasn't for them.

Back to the secrecy - after some of my wife's family went through the program, they had a few meetings amongst themselves to discuss matters of deep doctrine with their new found light. I was anxious to sit in on these, as I like getting into some meaty gospel discussions, but was not welcome because I hadn't gone through the course and therefore couldn't comprehend the things they wished to discuss.

Some people who take this course swear by it, that it is life changing. I have heard it described many times that it is a course that will teach you 20 years worth of life's lessons in a few weeks. For me, it fits exactly with the organizations that we are counseled to avoid.
Your description mirrors another experience I am connected to.

Someone close to me got involved with a group in SLC called Landmark. He did their courses last fall, the "truths" he was learning quickly made it all but impossible for anyone close to him to talk with him as they didn't have the real truth in his eyes and couldn't possible understand. Although there was certainly some truth there that was indeed a positive thing to be discovered, the other so called truths were really out there. This search for enlightenment lead to trying to expand his creative processes to the point of getting involved with drugs and shamans in his search for further spiritual advancement.

He ended up endangering himself and others as he slipped into a delusional state where he thought that his Heavenly Father was telling him to harm himself and others. This ended up with him in the psych ward lock-down for several weeks. He was enduring massive satanic delusions of grandeur. For many days all those who love him wondered if he would ever be himself again and if they would ever see him or talk to him outside of delusion again. He has been under heavy medication, and has fortunately begun to heal. With the medication he is himself again. However, the extremity of the mental processes he went through and due to the effects of the drugs he may or may not ever be able to be unmedicated again. We are thankful that the medication has allowed him to think clearly again. He has even shown a desire to start leaning about the Gospel again, from the right sources.

This experience ended all attempts to get me and his family members involved in the Landmark courses. I had a bad feeling about it from the start, which grew rapidly.

Oh yes, and the $4,000 per course is absolutely non-refundable, and they and participants can't talk about what they do..

DocsWifeIdaho
captain of 50
Posts: 88
Location: Lovely Idaho

Re: "Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by DocsWifeIdaho »

Oh yes, LANDMARK.. I went to a FREE mtg with them one night. It was at first neat.....then about 30 mins into it I was like.......there is something just not right here.

Want change? repentance and gospel living is the ONLY way.

I was totally being stalked to join. I HAD NO MONEY. And yes it was 4k.

The poeple were glassy eyed and seemed like they were fogged over, if you will.

Then I remember the church said to STAY away from them.

It was pretty clear to my discernment this was NOT the right kind of place for ANY LDS.

HeirofNumenor
the Heir Of Numenor
Posts: 4229
Location: UT

Re: "Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by HeirofNumenor »

People get involved with these groups for a number of reasons. Many of them overlap. Perhaps most people could be tempted to join these groups due to the following possibilities:

1) They lack a sufficient knowledge of the Gospel, let alone a solid & strong testimony, and want to get their lives in order/improve, but either won't do what is necessary in the Gospel, or don't know how.

2) They THINK they know A LOT about the gospel, and they want to know more...much more than what has been revealed. They are like the Jews, whom the scriptures say kept looking beyond the mark, because they wanted to know the mysteries so much (though they couldn't keep the commandments).
Jacob 4: 14
But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.
3) They have a particular fondness for spiritualism ("I'm spiritual, not religious"), self-actualization, anything that is not overly religious, nor requires true faith in Deity, let alone repentance and keeping Commandments.

4) They are looking for something that will give them a great leap forward in success, be it material, financial, professional, social, emotional, romantic, etc...

I'm sure there may be other reasons too...

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shadow
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Posts: 10542
Location: St. George

Re: "Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by shadow »

My sister and her husband take some "Impact training" courses. They haven't been to church since. But hey, it's (supposedly) headed by an LDS member so it must be good!!
It is very secretive. They wanted my wife and I to join but not a chance. They talk about being "children of light", more like children of the corn if you ask me. And yes, they have very inappropriate relationships with others in the group. I expect to see them divorce sooner than later once one of them wakes up. It's very sad.

J
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Re: "Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by J »

[...]
Last edited by J on September 14th, 2012, 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ROB GIBBSEN
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Posts: 699

Re: "Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by ROB GIBBSEN »

Of course it happen in Utah. Utah members are of a different breed. These groups may have been in other places but these type of things start alot up in Utah.

I figure I will get some heat for saying this, however this post just reinforces some of my views of Utah and of the members there.

colbyman
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 1

Re: "Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by colbyman »

All, I happened across this and wanted to share my experience. I'm active LDS and temple worthy.

I did several landmark courses. I'm in one with my wife right now. I even led the introductions for several months that some of you may have attended. I have a good understanding of the organization. A few notes:

#1, many people don't realize the differences between the self-awareness groups. Impact and Great Life Foundation and its practices are a lot different from Landmark and its practices. They all have common roots in the EST training in the 1970s, but Landmark is becoming much more "mainstream" than the others, which seem to be Utah-based and cater to the LDS population. None of the six items in the Church's statement apply to Landmark very well. I sit by my wife during every class we go to. We're done by 10pm at the latest.

#2, classes are not $4,000. The main Landmark forum is currently $485 and covers 3 days of seminar, plus 10 3-hour classroom sessions. Some of the other programs cost more than that, some less. We're doing a 3-month program that costed $220 for each of us.

#3, the curriculum is not secretive. It is copyrighted for sure. People aren't permitted to attend the other classes until they've done the Landmark Forum, because they won't understand the jargon and how they talk about stuff. But participants can share whatever they want outside of the classroom.

#4, they do encourage people to invite others. It's gained them a reputation for having a "hard sell". It's something that they're working on as an organization to improve and has gotten better over the years. Still not perfect, but better. I don't blame people for being weirded out by it. The reasoning behind it is that the more people understand how they do things at Landmark, the easier it is for them to live that way in their families and communities when they go home.

#5, there are many LGBT people there. Landmark does not say that morality is bad or wrong; I've actually heard several leaders say that morality is necessary and good. But they don't preach that a certain religion or moral view is better or worse than another. Hence, I think the LGBT crowd feels safe there. The curriculum is very good at helping people not be judgmental towards each other. In the absence of laws, commandments, etc. being preached, though, it can seem like they're encouraging that behavior.

#6, some people do leave the Church after doing it. I've also seen others become active and go on missions as a result of it. The curriculum is focused on self-empowerment. Because they don't preach about God, some feel empowered and feel they don't need Him. I've met many of the senior executives in the organization. Some believe in God, some don't. Their focus is on empowering individuals, not building faith. They do it well, admittedly sometimes at the cost of faith.

#7, they have good hearts. They really are trying to accomplish good in the world--eliminate violence, encourage peace, etc. They don't have the "whole picture," but I've found it insightful enough that I've stayed involved with it.

Hope that's informative to some. Happy Thanksgiving!

Rosabella
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Posts: 1186

Re: "Self-Awareness Groups"

Post by Rosabella »

EST is new age training. It is the kind of things the Church is warning about when it says we should not be involved in Self-empowerment or self-awareness groups. If you know the basics of the new spirituality and its teachings of not believing in a God but believing in man's co-creating his world as a God you can recognize the teachings in EST.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Erhard

Here is what wikipedia says where the influnces of the creation of EST"
Influences
During his time in St. Louis, Erhard read two books which were to have a marked effect on him: Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill (1937) and Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz (1960).[15]:383 When a member of his staff at Parents Magazine introduced him to the ideas of Abraham Maslow and Carl Rogers, both key figures in the human potential movement, his interests became more focused on personal fulfillment rather than sales success.[15] After his move to Sausalito, he attended talks by Alan Watts, a notable Western interpreter of Zen Buddhism, who introduced him to the distinction between mind and self;[15] Erhard subsequently became close friends with Watts.[2]:117-138 In William Bartley's biography, Werner Erhard: The Transformation of a Man, the Founding of est (1978), Bartley quotes Erhard as acknowledging Zen as the essential contribution that "created the space for" est.[2]:146,147 Bartley details Erhard's connections with Zen beginning with his extensive studies with Alan Watts in the mid 1960s[2]:118 and quotes Erhard as acknowledging:
Of all the disciplines that I studied, practiced, learned, Zen was the essential one. It was not so much an influence on me, rather it created space. It allowed those things that were there to be there. It gave some form to my experience. And it built up in me the critical mass from which was kindled the experience that produced est.[2]:118
Erhard attended the Dale Carnegie course in 1967.[15] He was sufficiently impressed with it to make his staff attend the course as well, and began to think about developing a course of his own.[15] Over the following years, Erhard continued to investigate a wide range of other new religious and therapeutic movements, including Encounter, Transactional Analysis, Enlightenment Intensive, Subud and Scientology.[15]:383 Erhard read L. Ron Hubbard extensively, and Scientology ideas have influenced both est and The Forum.[15]:383 Erhard later said, "I have a lot of respect for L. Ron Hubbard and I consider him to be a genius and perhaps less acknowledged than he ought to be."
In 1970, Erhard became involved in Mind Dynamics.[15]:383 Founded by Alexander Everett, Mind Dynamics seminars included teachings based on Rosicrucianism and Theosophy, as well as the methods of Edgar Cayce and Jose Silva, founder of Silva Mind Control.[15]:383–384 Erhard subsequently trained as a Mind Dynamics instructor with Everett, and took over the San Francisco Mind Dynamics franchise, teaching classes in San Francisco and soon also Los Angeles.[15]:384 The two directors of Mind Dynamics eventually invited him into their partnership, but Erhard rejected the offer, saying he would rather develop his own seminar program – "est", which he announced on 13 September 1971, at his last Mind Dynamics course in San Francisco
If one researches the founding principles of EST you find it coming from the occult and is not in line with the Gospel. EST is not just benign it serves a very dangerous purpose. It may be watered down occult doctrines but occult doctrines just the same.

The video on this thread might help recognize these self-empowerment groups teachings. http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 32&t=15129

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