I've been listening to archives of "The Free Capitalist"

[ShineOn]

I'm sorry if this rubs people the wrong way, but I can't stand it anymore.

I never liked FreeCapitalist.com very much, but I never looked into it very closely. I have been reading about the Free Capitalist ideas and listening to the radio show. This guy is way off, in a scary way. It can seem to be a strange things that I like Cleon Skousen's writing so much, and the founders, and being financially free, but be so opposed to what Rick Koerber preaches. I read about his financial schemes and it's embarrassing to me that people fell for them. I think the recent letter from the 1st Presidency about financial scams was about this Free Capitalist stuff.

[ShawnC]

I got your back Shine.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

It is my understanding that many have already been financially ruined by doing just what you are describing.

I warned them too.... But, what do I know?

[jnjnelson]

I don't want to rag on this guy, but some of the stuff he says, and does with other people's money, is so bad that I think he needs to stopped, not by force but by exposing what all is wrong with him and his ideas.

All right, let's do it. What is wrong with Rick Koerber and his ideas? Let's expose him and his ideas. Let's get specific and detailed, up front and honest. A little constructive criticism never hurt anyone.

If we can be detailed in our criticism and back up our claims with data and merit, I'm confident any wrong-doing of Rick Koerber will be successfully exposed. Do you have any specific criticisms of Rick Koerber?

In your comments, you have yet to expose anything. I personally thank you for your opinions. I enjoy reading everyone's opinion. However, opinions don't expose truth. Let's do what you suggest and expose truth. You have expressed your opinions without providing any details as to the reason for your opinions. Is there a reason you "think Rick Koerber misunderstands so much and he warps ideas so much" to induce fear?

I have also read the 13 Principles of Prosperity. I have read the Free Capitalist Primer. I find Rick Koerber's works difficult to criticize. However, if there is a substantive reason for your fear of what Rick Koerber does, please let us know. In detail. Don't let us know what you think. Don't give us your opinion. Let's discuss fact and how it applies to truth and true principles.

[Steve Clark]

I don't want to rag on this guy, but some of the stuff he says, and does with other people's money, is so bad that I think he needs to stopped, not by force but by exposing what all is wrong with him and his ideas.

All right, let's do it. What is wrong with Rick Koerber and his ideas? Let's expose him and his ideas. Let's get specific and detailed, up front and honest. A little constructive criticism never hurt anyone.

If we can be detailed in our criticism and back up our claims with data and merit, I'm confident any wrong-doing of Rick Koerber will be successfully exposed. Do you have any specific criticisms of Rick Koerber?

In your comments, you have yet to expose anything. I personally thank you for your opinions. I enjoy reading everyone's opinion. However, opinions don't expose truth. Let's do what you suggest and expose truth. You have expressed your opinions without providing any details as to the reason for your opinions. Is there a reason you "think Rick Koerber misunderstands so much and he warps ideas so much" to induce fear?

I have also read the 13 Principles of Prosperity. I have read the Free Capitalist Primer. I find Rick Koerber's works difficult to criticize. However, if there is a substantive reason for your fear of what Rick Koerber does, please let us know. In detail. Don't let us know what you think. Don't give us your opinion. Let's discuss fact and how it applies to truth and true principles.

I'll give some criticisms. I know a few people who were/are involved with Rick. I'll give my opinions of why I don't like what Rick is doing. At first, I really liked Rick's ideas. The 13 principles of prosperity were pretty good from what I recall, though I can't remember what they were right now.

My biggest complaint with Rick is that I don't believe he followed his own principles as I understood them. His investment program, or scheme if that is the word you want to use, was to get people to use their credit to over-finance houses - and I know others who do this with cars, pianos...etc - then they take the part that was left after the deed was paid and "invest" it in something with a high-yielding return somewhere in the neighborhood of 10% monthly. The returns from the "investment' then pay for the monthly payments of whatever you used as leverage, and Rick takes a few points off the top for being the middleman. The hypocrisy I see in this is the whole consumer vs producer mindset. I can't see how this system produces anything other than people who have a lot of money/possessions without actually earning them if that's the right word. Instead I see people consuming houses and cars and other high-end merchandise to perpetuate the system. The only thing coming out of the system is dollar bills, and I don't think they count as adding value, rather they devalue the rest of the currency by inflation.

A direct example of this devaluing of the currency is a deal I heard about not too long ago where there was a $10M buy in as I recall with about 12 points/month at the broker level. The money is actually used to fractionalize in banks to create hundreds of times more money at the top end. I relate this to a machine that is created where you put in a $20 bill and it spits out a $100 bill. No value is created. The net result is just inflated currency and people who use this to take other commodities out of the hands of other people buy doing nothing more than putting in $20 and getting out $100. This isn't moral to me.

Unfortunately, I know a few people who stand to lose everything they had because of this system.

I made some generalizations here and put Rick into it without honestly knowing if this is how his system works. From the best of my working knowledge, this is exactly what happened in relation to using the houses to over-finance (which by the way runs the prices of houses up for people like me).

If I gave bad info, or have flawed logic I am open to be criticized.

-SC

[ShineOn]

Have at it

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

I know people personally who did it. They then had the fund not pay out and they lost everything.

My number one problem with it, is the idea of going into more debt to create "wealth". It is a false wealth. Wealth is the absence of debt in my opinion.

Someone with no debt and only .50 is much wealthier then the guy with 2 mortgages, expensive cars that are loaned to the hilt, one looks wealthy, while the other actually is.

My father's book "Personal Finances Simplified." Helps explain this in one phrase.

"True wealth may be measured by an individuals ability to remain debt free."
L. Richard Heward

[ShineOn]

I really recommend listening to the archives of his show. You'll get a good feel for what I am talking about.

[jnjnelson]

The 13 principles of prosperity were pretty good from what I recall, though I can't remember what they were right now.

I believe the 13 Principles of Prosperity are summarized here. A more in depth articulation of the Principles is found in the Primer, which can be obtained from the Free Capitalist Primer Quest website.

My biggest complaint with Rick is that I don't believe he followed his own principles as I understood them.

So should he follow true principles as he understands them, or as you understand them?

His investment program, or scheme if that is the word you want to use, was to get people to use their credit to over-finance houses - and I know others who do this with cars, pianos...etc - then they take the part that was left after the deed was paid and "invest" it in something with a high-yielding return somewhere in the neighborhood of 10% monthly. The returns from the "investment' then pay for the monthly payments of whatever you used as leverage, and Rick takes a few points off the top for being the middleman.

This is news to me. I've never witnessed Rick Koerber suggesting this strategy to anyone. Did he suggest this strategy to you or someone you know, or have you substantiated your understanding of "his investment program" by contacting him?

The hypocrisy I see in this is the whole consumer vs producer mindset. I can't see how this system produces anything other than people who have a lot of money/possessions without actually earning them if that's the right word.

How do I obtain money or possessions without earning them? The only way I can think of is by stealing it. Are you accusing Rick Koerber of stealing?

Instead I see people consuming houses and cars and other high-end merchandise to perpetuate the system. The only thing coming out of the system is dollar bills, and I don't think they count as adding value, rather they devalue the rest of the currency by inflation.

Let me share something Brigham Young said, from which Rick Koerber also quotes in "his Primer":

Gold is good for nothing,only as men value it. It is no better than a piece of iron, a piece of limestone,or a piece of sandstone, and it is not half so good as the soil from which we raise our wheat, and other necessaries of life.

Dollars are also good for nothing, only as men value it. Everyone consumes, even those whom Rick Koerber defines as Producers, and he recognizes that fact. The difference between Rick Koerber's "Consumers" and "Producers" is whether they create more value than they consume. Can you determine simply by the price or cost of the merchandise a person owns whether that person creates more value than they consume? I can't.

A direct example of this devaluing of the currency is a deal I heard about not too long ago where there was a $10M buy in as I recall with about 12 points/month at the broker level. The money is actually used to fractionalize in banks to create hundreds of times more money at the top end. I relate this to a machine that is created where you put in a $20 bill and it spits out a $100 bill. No value is created. The net result is just inflated currency and people who use this to take other commodities out of the hands of other people buy doing nothing more than putting in $20 and getting out $100. This isn't moral to me.

Consider this: I might invest $20 in a savings account with a generous annual interest rate of 4%. What would happen to that $20 in approximately 43 years? What if the 4% was compounded monthly instead of yearly? Try 3½ years. Is interest immoral? If it is, we'd all better cut up all our credit cards, because they are immorally taking lots of money from Americans every month.

Unfortunately, I know a few people who stand to lose everything they had because of this system.

I submit that anyone who stands "to lose everything" are in that position because of their own decisions and ignorance, not as a result of any deception perpetuated by Rick Koerber.

I made some generalizations here and put Rick into it without honestly knowing if this is how his system works. From the best of my working knowledge, this is exactly what happened in relation to using the houses to over-finance (which by the way runs the prices of houses up for people like me).

Where do you obtain your knowledge? What is your source? Is the current housing "crisis" now Rick Koerber's doing, and not, as the government asserts, the result of sub-prime mortgages?

If I gave bad info, or have flawed logic I am open to be criticized.

I have no idea if you have provided inaccurate information. What is your source?

The 13 Principles of Prosperity are true principles, verifiable through study of the scriptures. I'll list them here:

Principle 1: God is the author of prosperity (i.e. Principles Govern)
Principle 2: Faith begins with self-interest
Principle 3: Agency implies stewardship
Principle 4: Perspective determines action
Principle 5: People are assets
Principle 6: Human life value is the source and creator of all property value
Principle 7: Dollars follow value
Principle 8: Exchange creates wealth
Principle 9: Profit is the tool of validation
Principle 10: Productivity is the standard
Principle 11: Force destroys freedom and prosperity
Principle 12: Collective action has no unique moral authority
Principle 13: Personal liberty requires private property

This articulation of these true principles may rub some people the wrong way, but by following the principles, any person will become more prosperous, whether financially, emotionally, physically, mentally, or spiritually. Each of us need to learn that prospering is not so much about receiving value as it is about creating and providing value to other people. And we should provide value because of what it will do for us, which is ultimately bring us to a fullness of joy. Try that on for "self-interest" - how much more value can I create for myself than to bring myself true, lasting joy?

If you don't agree with the way Rick Koerber articulates the 13 Principles of Prosperity, I suggest you find out the truth of the principles for yourself, and articulate them yourself.

[jnjnelson]

His Primer is full of stories about himself, and his experiences with truth becoming apparent to him.

Quick correction: The Free Capitalist Primer is not "full of stories about" Rick Koerber. Almost exactly ½ of the Free Capitalist Primer are articles by Rick Koerber. The other ½ includes articles quoted from many great people, including Brigham Young, and Ronald Reagan. It also contains the full text of the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.

And finally, his office is fashioned after the oval office.

What does the design of Rick Koerber's office have to do with the validity of Rick Koerber's ideas and whether his actions are of ill repute? You lost me there.

Need I go on?

Please do. Go on. You have yet to provide any information that should make anyone afraid of Rick Koerber or his ideas. I'm more afraid of Mormons in general than Rick Koerber, and I am a Mormon. Why, again, should anyone agree with your opinion of Rick Koerber?

I really recommend listening to the archives of his show. You'll get a good feel for what I am talking about.

I also recommend listening to the archives of his show. Rick has a way of articulating true principles that helps me understand them better and live them better. The guests of the show also help, though I disagree with their articulations more often.

http://freecapitalistcritique.blogspot.com/

I did read through that blog, though I found it no more helpful than your own comments. All the arguments on that blog lacked any verifiable information and they lacked any reasonable merit. Your purpose in this discussion, as stated, is to expose Rick Koerber's ideas and what is wrong with him; however, you aren't providing any rational arguments. Please provide some.

[jnjnelson]

Wealth is the absence of debt in my opinion.

Interesting opinion. I may agree with you completely on that one. I'm not sure yet; let's discuss it a bit. How do you define debt?

My number one problem with it, is the idea of going into more debt to create "wealth".

I assume by "it" you mean a strategy authored by Rick Koerber. This may another example of a misunderstanding of Rick Koerber's ideas. I have never heard or read Rick Koerber suggesting to anyone to go into debt. However, obtaining money for the purpose of investing, which Rick has suggested, is not the same as incurring debt. Rick Koerber has many suggestions on how to invest and how to limit risk when you are investing, but incurring debt is risky, so I can't imagine Rick suggesting going into debt. If he has suggested doing so, please provide us with a quote or some other source.

I know people personally who did it.

What exactly is "it" again? These people you know, what did they do that was associated with Rick Koerber?

[ShineOn]

new post

[ShineOn]

I have never heard or read Rick Koerber suggesting to anyone to go into debt. However, obtaining money for the purpose of investing, which Rick has suggested, is not the same as incurring debt. Rick Koerber has many suggestions on how to invest and how to limit risk when you are investing, but incurring debt is risky, so I can't imagine Rick suggesting going into debt.?

sigh

[ShineOn]

I'm more afraid of Mormons in general than Rick Koerber, and I am a Mormon.

[jnjnelson]

I think this may be the topic of my next post.

I look forward to it. Incidentally, are you the same anonymous individual that is posting the "Utahn" blog entries?

[Steve Clark]

The 13 principles of prosperity were pretty good from what I recall, though I can't remember what they were right now.

I believe the 13 Principles of Prosperity are summarized here. A more in depth articulation of the Principles is found in the Primer, which can be obtained from the Free Capitalist Primer Quest website.

Thank you. It's good to brush up on them.

My biggest complaint with Rick is that I don't believe he followed his own principles as I understood them.

So should he follow true principles as he understands them, or as you understand them?

He doesn't need to live by my moral compass, but I do. Perhaps it would be better if I said that because I don't believe Rick lives the principles as prosperity as I believe them, I don't want to subject myself further to his misinterpretation of correct principles.

His investment program, or scheme if that is the word you want to use, was to get people to use their credit to over-finance houses - and I know others who do this with cars, pianos...etc - then they take the part that was left after the deed was paid and "invest" it in something with a high-yielding return somewhere in the neighborhood of 10% monthly. The returns from the "investment' then pay for the monthly payments of whatever you used as leverage, and Rick takes a few points off the top for being the middleman.

This is news to me. I've never witnessed Rick Koerber suggesting this strategy to anyone. Did he suggest this strategy to you or someone you know, or have you substantiated your understanding of "his investment program" by contacting him?

This strategy was suggested to my father. He was told (not by Rick directly) that he could drive a really nice car for free. All he needed to do was pick out a high end car where the numbers would work as described above. Others that I know sold their houses and bought luxury homes from which they could strip the equity and multiply it as I described above. I am not going to give names out of respect to those individuals.

The hypocrisy I see in this is the whole consumer vs producer mindset. I can't see how this system produces anything other than people who have a lot of money/possessions without actually earning them if that's the right word.

How do I obtain money or possessions without earning them? The only way I can think of is by stealing it. Are you accusing Rick Koerber of stealing?

I am not accusing Rick of committing the sin of stealing. I would say that he is taking and omitting to see how it affects others.

Instead I see people consuming houses and cars and other high-end merchandise to perpetuate the system. The only thing coming out of the system is dollar bills, and I don't think they count as adding value, rather they devalue the rest of the currency by inflation.

Let me share something Brigham Young said, from which Rick Koerber also quotes in "his Primer":

Gold is good for nothing,only as men value it. It is no better than a piece of iron, a piece of limestone,or a piece of sandstone, and it is not half so good as the soil from which we raise our wheat, and other necessaries of life.

Dollars are also good for nothing, only as men value it. Everyone consumes, even those whom Rick Koerber defines as Producers, and he recognizes that fact. The difference between Rick Koerber's "Consumers" and "Producers" is whether they create more value than they consume. Can you determine simply by the price or cost of the merchandise a person owns whether that person creates more value than they consume? I can't.

I agree with brother Brigham. The argument that I have with this concept isn't the possession of nice things. I have no problem with wealthy people so long as they traded value for value. Your point regarding money further illustrates my point. Money in and of itself isn't value. So, as I understand the situation - and this is where I am open to be corrected - Rick is using things that have intrinsic value like houses, cars or whatever it may be and he uses them to create more money that doesn't have value. What is Rick's contribution in this scenario. Please show me what he produces.

A direct example of this devaluing of the currency is a deal I heard about not too long ago where there was a $10M buy in as I recall with about 12 points/month at the broker level. The money is actually used to fractionalize in banks to create hundreds of times more money at the top end. I relate this to a machine that is created where you put in a $20 bill and it spits out a $100 bill. No value is created. The net result is just inflated currency and people who use this to take other commodities out of the hands of other people buy doing nothing more than putting in $20 and getting out $100. This isn't moral to me.

Consider this: I might invest $20 in a savings account with a generous annual interest rate of 4%. What would happen to that $20 in approximately 43 years? What if the 4% was compounded monthly instead of yearly? Try 3½ years. Is interest immoral? If it is, we'd all better cut up all our credit cards, because they are immorally taking lots of money from Americans every month.

Is interest immoral? Excellent question. What does the Bible teach? From Ezek. 18:13 my scriptures say "13.[If he] Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die;"

I don't believe that all usury is bad. The bible also says we can lend usury to strangers, but not our brothers. As I see it, interest is fine in situations. If somebody needs a loan to boost production of something and makes an agreement with someone for, say a $10,000 loan with an understanding that in five years the person will have to repay the loan plus $2000 in interest, there isn't a problem as long as the original $10,000 loan made it possible for extra production of $2000 profit for those five years. This way, everyone wins.

Again, in the examples I have given, I fail to see where the value is created. And, oh what a world it would be if everyone chopped up their credit cards!

PS - I have never paid a dime in interest on a credit card, but I do pay interest on a private loan that was given to my wife and me to start a small business and I feel ok with that.

Unfortunately, I know a few people who stand to lose everything they had because of this system.

I submit that anyone who stands "to lose everything" are in that position because of their own decisions and ignorance, not as a result of any deception perpetuated by Rick Koerber.

I'm fine with that. Merely pointing out what a sad situation it is that these people, through their ignorance put in all they had to Rick's program and are worse off for it.

I made some generalizations here and put Rick into it without honestly knowing if this is how his system works. From the best of my working knowledge, this is exactly what happened in relation to using the houses to over-finance (which by the way runs the prices of houses up for people like me).

Where do you obtain your knowledge? What is your source? Is the current housing "crisis" now Rick Koerber's doing, and not, as the government asserts, the result of sub-prime mortgages?

Again, out of respect to those involved I won't say directly where I obtained my information, but I believe it to be accurate until proven otherwise. So far, everything fits as I can see it. If you have other information, I am open to it.

As for the housing crisis - I never asserted the sub-prime market collapse or the housing bubble was a direct consequence of Rick Koerber. I am absolutely saying this program had a negative net affect on the situation. Are you saying that inflating house prices to over finance them is good on the housing market?

If I gave bad info, or have flawed logic I am open to be criticized.

I have no idea if you have provided inaccurate information. What is your source?

Already went into the question of my sources, but you are free to argue against my understanding of value, principles or any information that I have given.

The 13 Principles of Prosperity are true principles, verifiable through study of the scriptures. I'll list them here:

Principle 1: God is the author of prosperity (i.e. Principles Govern)
Principle 2: Faith begins with self-interest
Principle 3: Agency implies stewardship
Principle 4: Perspective determines action
Principle 5: People are assets
Principle 6: Human life value is the source and creator of all property value
Principle 7: Dollars follow value
Principle 8: Exchange creates wealth
Principle 9: Profit is the tool of validation
Principle 10: Productivity is the standard
Principle 11: Force destroys freedom and prosperity
Principle 12: Collective action has no unique moral authority
Principle 13: Personal liberty requires private property

This articulation of these true principles may rub some people the wrong way, but by following the principles, any person will become more prosperous, whether financially, emotionally, physically, mentally, or spiritually. Each of us need to learn that prospering is not so much about receiving value as it is about creating and providing value to other people. And we should provide value because of what it will do for us, which is ultimately bring us to a fullness of joy. Try that on for "self-interest" - how much more value can I create for myself than to bring myself true, lasting joy?

If you don't agree with the way Rick Koerber articulates the 13 Principles of Prosperity, I suggest you find out the truth of the principles for yourself, and articulate them yourself.

Thank you. Again, I like the principles. They sound pretty good. My problem is the application of such principles that Rick has done.

Let me be clear that I am not trying to dismantle Rick. I was happy when I saw that he registered for this site. I was looking forward to his input. I was also deeply impressed with him when I emailed a complaint to him through his website and he responded directly to me. I didn't agree with his response, but appreciated the courtesy of open dialog.

My problem once again is that I don't believe Rick is adding value in the investment programs. A sad consequence is that people are losing their homes and life savings. I am not even delving into who is to blame. The thing I really like about Rick is he helped me think in terms of living by principles. Let's look at the principles and application of such. This is what I am trying to do.

[ShineOn]

I been reading past posts on this board about the whole Free Capitalist thing. I'm mostly disappointed. How can people, even members, not see the problems with it? Why do people equate the Free Capitalist with freedom? Why can't they see that it is not "principled" or wise?

[Steve Clark]

I been reading past posts on this board about the whole Free Capitalist thing. I'm mostly disappointed. How can people, even members, not see the problems with it? Why do people equate the Free Capitalist with freedom? Why can't they see that it is not "principled" or wise?

Something's going on with the whole Thomas Jefferson Education movement, too. I never liked it, but now it's starting to get out of control and I need to voice my opinions on it. There are some common threads between the Thomas Jefferson Education movement (and all its spinoffs) and the Free Capitalist movement (and all its spinoffs). For some reason, this is all like blossoming right now, and I don't feel like I can keep quiet. I'll probably lose some friends, here and elsewhere, but I really feel strongly about it.

What are you referring to as the "Thomas Jefferson Education movement?" What things do you not like?

[ShineOn]

There's more, but I need a break.

[Steve Clark]

What are you referring to as the "Thomas Jefferson Education movement?" What things do you not like?

http://www.tjed.org/

If you aren't familiar with it, then I wouldn't worry about it. It's a homeschooling approach. It's got all sorts of seminars and organizations. Weird ways that you need to talk to your kids so they learn to be "stewards" and the "results of their actions" (which sound ok, until you see how you do it, and how much it costs you).

My wife got an email last night about "Mini-Ag" which is basically about families and communities being able to grow their own food and how to do that. I said, "that sounds good." But then she read more about the organization sponsoring it and their "principles of georgics" and how the real harvest of the soil is the Good Citizen. I kept on telling her to stop reading aloud because I couldn't take it anymore. I can't even go to a gardening class without it being "principle-based" and reviving "the heritage that the Founders left us with." etc. You are supposed to read books like Charlotte's Web and Virgil's Georgic (which is about Roman farming written 2000 years ago) to get an idea of how rustic life is supposed to be. And they are going to change the world one garden at a time. Principled-based gardening....I mean....c'mon....please stop

There's more, but I need a break. I guess there needs to be a critique of TJ Ed now.

Sounds interesting. Haven't ever heard of principle-based gardening before....

[jnjnelson]

I am not even delving into who is to blame. The thing I really like about Rick is he helped me think in terms of living by principles. Let's look at the principles and application of such. This is what I am trying to do.

I'm glad you are receiving the same level of value that I am through FreeCapitalist.com and Rick Koerber. I exchange ideas on FreeCapitalist.com and I profit thereby. I do not profit financially directly from participating in the website, but my ideas prosper, which makes me more financially prosperous. Have I invested money with Rick Koerber? I purchased the Free Capitalist Primer; but, other than that, I have not invested any amount of money with anyone associated with the Free Capitalist.

As far as criticizing Rick, it appears to me that no one has any first hand information. All of the negative posts about Rick Koerber are second-hand. Negative, second-hand information shared in this type of forum is no more or less than gossip - in a court of law, second-hand information is referred to as hearsay and is not admissible. My suggestion is to not gossip. Gossip is as destructive to the person who gossips as it is to the subject of the gossip. If you have first-hand sources of information to which you can refer me (and other interested people), by all means share that information.

... it's starting to get out of control and I need to voice my opinions on it.

I am glad you want to voice your opinions about it. Will you also include some verifiable information from which you base your opinions? My repetitive requests for any first-hand information to back up these claims have been continually ignored or discounted. Is there something wrong with wanting to find out the truth for myself, or must I simply trust in anonymous opinions? I'll tell you what's getting out of control: anonymous, destructive, unsubstantiated rumors, disguised as emotionally charged "opinion" in Internet blogs.

[ShineOn]

Play that game with someone else.

[jnjnelson]

Read the blog for my analysis and opinions on his teachings. Don't insinuate that I am going off rumor.

So is it your blog? You never answered my direct question on that one. I find it interesting that you accuse Rick of being something other than up-front and honest, but you avoid answering many of my direct questions. In my mind, this decreases your credibility, though not so much as your anonymity.

My intention was never to insinuate anything. I am asking if you expect anyone else to do go off rumor, and I make no assumptions as to whether you do. Again, I ask: Is there something wrong with wanting to find out the truth for myself, or do you expect me to trust in anonymous opinions? You have not provided any facts or even any references to facts, you have only provided rumor and opinion. With what you have provided, I can't verify anything you have claimed about Rick Koerber. The libelous comments about Rick Koerber may be fact, but I have no way of verifying it, so I must treat it as unsubstantiated rumor until I am provided with verifiable information. Anonymous blogs, especially those like the one to which you provide links, are opinion only, not verifiable information.

Again, if your stated purpose is to discredit Rick Koerber, the honorable way to do so is to provide verifiable information for everyone to study and come to their own conclusions. You have told of your conclusions, but you have not provided the reason for those conclusions. Please provide some reasoning behind your logic.

[ShineOn]

whatever

[ShineOn]

I don't like the show