Liberty

[Jason]

I think either man made or natural disasters will cause a revolutionary or civil war. It will be a nearly exterminating war. It will be gods way of humbling the people to return to him and his ways. Many prophets have foretold this. I don't fear it. It will happen for scriptures to come true. It's what needs to happen to prepare this people to live in a Zion society with the law of
Consecration.

I'm trying to prepare myself and family to be ready to live that life now. And help as many as I can to make it through the hard times ahead.

9/10th of the population died prior to the lord coming the first time to the American inhabitants in the scriptures. You can bet it will happen again prior to our lords second coming in preparation for that. And to follow the pattern in the scriptures.

Joseph smith said that our government will be nothing more then a potshard. Broken and unable to hold water. And that if the constitution is to be saved it will be by the elders of isrial. Ezra Taft benson expounded on that saying it would be those already anxiously engadge in a good cause who would do this. Those not waiting to be commanded in all things.

He encouraged us to know study and understand the constitution and the founders intent in its creation.

Don't know that I've ever seen prophecy on that....well at least post Civil War.

China will invade at some point.

Where do you get the numbers for 9/10th of the population being wiped out?

Look up John Taylor's vision. 9/10ths Book of Mormon gives a very specific number of the amount of dead.

His vision is quoted in probably 100+ posts by me on here. Don't recall anything specific about civil war.

Reference?

[Ezra]

What else would you call people fighting and killing people from there own Country? Almost no men because of fighting. Civil war.

[Jason]

What else would you call people fighting and killing people from there own Country? Almost no men because of fighting. Civil war.

I see your perspective now (I think). Martial law perhaps. Not really any sides (for war)....just complete breakdown with no law and order...or any degree of organization. Essentially the libertarian dream of complete self government albeit with a people not capable of self government.

[Ezra]

What else would you call people fighting and killing people from there own Country? Almost no men because of fighting. Civil war.

I see your perspective now (I think). Martial law perhaps. Not really any sides (for war)....just complete breakdown with no law and order...or any degree of organization. Essentially the libertarian dream of complete self government albeit with a people not capable of self government.

Wow who jaded you so much that labeled themselfs as a libatarian to where now all evil = libitarian?
All democrats are evil all republicans are evil bla bla bla. Comments like your above really don't give credit to your case.

Remember that judgement of others puts gods judgement on you.

They are doing there best as they see it. They are well intentioned. It may not be the 100% correct way true. But its still under there best intentions to their knowledge.
Your judgement of them will effectively keep them right where they are. As they will try to prove their rightness over yours while your doing the same right back. It becomes a head to head fight where neither party can see the correct path because of their own pride.
When you let go of that prideful ideal that you know "the" correct way. And let humility rule. Only then will God truly show you his way.

"Sin" in the bible is translated from 2 different words from Hebrew. One means wrong,bad. One is a Archery term for missing the bulls eye.

Some people are hitting the target. Some just barely miss it. Some are shooting the wrong direction. Yet all are sin. Judging others is sin.
Yes people have misguided political ideals. Yes it's sin. But many are hitting the target at least. And yet from your comments you look at them as if they are the pleage. Why? Who made you the God of this world? Who is the only one who can safely judge.

I can tell you study and are a thinker. Think more on why the meek will inherit the earth and why humility is way more powerful then pride.

[Jason]

What else would you call people fighting and killing people from there own Country? Almost no men because of fighting. Civil war.

I see your perspective now (I think). Martial law perhaps. Not really any sides (for war)....just complete breakdown with no law and order...or any degree of organization. Essentially the libertarian dream of complete self government albeit with a people not capable of self government.

Wow who jaded you so much that labeled themselfs as a libatarian to where now all evil = libitarian?
All democrats are evil all republicans are evil bla bla bla. Comments like your above really don't give credit to your case.

Remember that judgement of others puts gods judgement on you.

They are doing there best as they see it. They are well intentioned. It may not be the 100% correct way true. But its still under there best intentions to their knowledge.
Your judgement of them will effectively keep them right where they are. As they will try to prove their rightness over yours while your doing the same right back. It becomes a head to head fight where neither party can see the correct path because of their own pride.
When you let go of that prideful ideal that you know "the" correct way. And let humility rule. Only then will God truly show you his way.

"Sin" in the bible is translated from 2 different words from Hebrew. One means wrong,bad. One is a Archery term for missing the bulls eye.

Some people are hitting the target. Some just barely miss it. Some are shooting the wrong direction. Yet all are sin. Judging others is sin.
Yes people have misguided political ideals. Yes it's sin. But many are hitting the target at least. And yet from your comments you look at them as if they are the pleage. Why? Who made you the God of this world? Who is the only one who can safely judge.

I can tell you study and are a thinker. Think more on why the meek will inherit the earth and why humility is way more powerful then pride.

Sorry...seem to have struck a nerve there. Don't have a case...just personal perspective. Take it for whatever you think it's worth...which is probably what you paid for it or less.

If by some chance some truth resonates...and really rattles your cage...might be cause for contemplation...or not.

[Ezra]

Like I've said befor I'm not a libatarian. Or republican or democrats or anything. I'm just a child of God.

We all know what I feels like to be judged. I'm simply offering advice.

It does not bother me one way or the other I'm just really wondering why you have such venom when it comes to those you label or who label themself as libatarian??

You comment often on them.

[Jason]

Like I've said befor I'm not a libatarian. Or republican or democrats or anything. I'm just a child of God.

We all know what I feels like to be judged. I'm simply offering advice.

It does not bother me one way or the other I'm just really wondering why you have such venom when it comes to those you label or who label themself as libatarian??

You comment often on them.

I wasn't judging you...I'm in the same camp politically.

Didn't label you. We see things through our own lens with our own bias. You seem to be taking offense when none was intended. Or maybe I'm overlooking something???

I used to be libertarian at one point...maybe that's why. Felt they had the answers until I was challenged to do further research by a forum member on here. Then did 180 on "modem" libertarianism. Now I try to challenge folks on it like that forum member did with me.

That said my comment above was not intended as a slam...just the reality or endpoint of self government without God.

[Ezra]

I didn't feel judged. I was simply giving advise. And trying to teach a little on being none judgmental since the lord has seen fit to teach me in such depth and detail on how much I judge others. At least used to. It's a wonderful lesson to learn. As it enhances ones life soooo much to be none judgmental of others. And self.

[idahommie]

Not judgemental, what a joke! I wish people that you have on ignore comments could not be seen when quoted as well, it just proves the hypocrisy........not judgmental......right......
Good luck Jason.....

[Jason]

Not judgemental, what a joke! I wish people that you have on ignore comments could not be seen when quoted as well, it just proves the hypocrisy........not judgmental......right......
Good luck Jason.....

LOL...speaking of judgment...pot may I introduce you to the kettle?

Thank you!!! Can always use a little luck....

[Robert Sinclair]

True liberty at last, that is what true Jubilee is all about, everyone returning and receiving their portion of God, debt free, for land and home, food and raiment, as he has commanded of his people of their own freewill.

This day draws near for those who see and can hear, and do these things, and have this pure oil, in their hearts, like a lamp well trimmed and ready for the bridegroom who cometh, lighting the way, for all the children of God to see.♡

Ephraim, O Ephraim, God is calling you, can you yet hear him? ♡

[Separatist]

On the drug war,

Robert Higgs:

Puritanical busybodies think that you should not be allowed to consume certain drugs because doing so will ruin your life. And they support arresting, prosecuting, and throwing drug users into prison, whether they have ruined their lives or not, thereby ensuring that their lives will be ruined for certain.

Michael Huemer, The Problem of Political Authority:

Today, organized criminals make their fortune selling marijuana and cocaine rather than penicillin and Prozac. The reason is that criminals have no advantages in the provision of ordinary goods and services; their only special asset is their willingness and skill in defying the law. Unlike ordinary businesspeople, criminal individuals are willing to risk imprisonment for the sake of money; they are willing to forgo all social respectability; and they are willing to engage in bribery, threats, and violence to pursue their business. These are the traits needed to supply a good that is illegal. By prohibiting certain drugs, we grant control of the recreational drug industry to people with those characteristics. If these same drugs were legalized, the criminals now making fortunes from their sale would no longer be able to do so because they would no longer have any economic advantage in that industry. This is the lesson of Capone and Prohibition.

[Separatist]

Perspectives:

Deirdre McCloskey, Bourgeois Dignity:

Two centuries ago the world’s economy stood at the present level of Bangladesh. In those good old days of 1800, furthermore, the average young person in Norway or Japan would have had on past form less rational hope than a young Bangladeshi nowadays of seeing in her lifetime the end of her nation’s poverty – or at least the beginning of the end. In 1800 the average human consumed and expected her children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren to go on consuming a mere $3 a day, give or take a dollar or two. The figure is expressed in modern-day, American prices, corrected for the cost of living. It is appalling.

By contrast, if you live nowadays in a thoroughly bourgeois country such as Japan or France you probably spend about $100 a day. One hundred dollars as against three: such is the magnitude of modern economic growth. The only people much better off than $3 or so up to 1800 were lords or bishops or some few of the merchants. It had been this way for all of history, and for that matter all of prehistory. With her $3 a day the average denizen of the earth got a few pounds of potatoes, a little milk, an occasional scrap of meat. A wool shawl. A year or two of elementary education, if lucky and if she lived in a society with literacy. She had a 50-50 chance at birth of dying before she was thirty years old. Perhaps she was a cheerful sort, and was “happy” with illiteracy, disease, superstition, periodic starvation, and lack of prospects. After all, she had her family and faith and community, which interfered with every choice she made. But at any rate she was desperately poor, and narrowly limited in human scope.

Ludwig von Mises, Human Action:

The authors begin by sketching an idyllic image of conditions as they prevailed on the eve of the "Industrial Revolution." At that time, they tell us, things were, by and large, satisfactory. The peasants were happy. So also were the industrial workers under the domestic system. They worked in their own cottages and enjoyed a certain economic independence since they owned a garden plot and their tools. But then "the Industrial Revolution fell like a war or a plague" on these people.2 The factory system reduced the free worker to virtual slavery; it lowered his standard of living to the level of bare subsistence; in cramming women and children into the mills it destroyed family life and sapped the very foundations of society, morality, and public health. A small minority of ruthless exploiters had cleverly succeeded in imposing their yoke upon the immense majority.

The truth is that economic conditions were highly unsatisfactory on the eve of the Industrial Revolution. The traditional social system was not elastic enough to provide for the needs of a rapidly increasing population. Neither farming nor the guilds had any use for the additional hands. Business was imbued with the inherited spirit of privilege and exclusive monopoly; its institutional foundations were licenses and the grant of a patent of monopoly; its philosophy was restriction and the prohibition of competition both domestic and foreign. The number of people for whom there was no room left in the rigid system of paternalism and government tutelage of business grew rapidly. They were virtually outcasts. The apathetic majority of these wretched people lived from the crumbs that fell from the tables of the established castes. In the harvest season they earned a trifle by occasional help on farms; for the rest they depended upon private charity and communal poor relief. Thousands of the most vigorous youths of these strata were pressed into the service of the Royal Army and Navy; many of them were killed or maimed in action; many more perished ingloriously from the hardships of the barbarous discipline, from tropical diseases, or from syphilis.3 Other thousands, the boldest and most ruthless of their class, infested the country as vagabonds, beggars, tramps, robbers, and prostitutes. The authorities did not know of any means to cope with these individuals other than the poorhouse and the workhouse. The support the government gave to the popular resentment against the introduction of new inventions and labor-saving devices made things quite hopeless.

The factory system developed in a continuous struggle against innumerable obstacles. It had to fight popular prejudice, old established customs, legally binding rules and regulations, the animosity of the authorities, the vested interests of privileged groups, the envy of the guilds. The capital equipment of the individual firms was insufficient, the provision of credit extremely difficult and costly. Technological and commercial experience was lacking. Most factory owners failed; comparatively few succeeded. Profits were sometimes considerable, but so were losses. It took many decades until the common practice of reinvesting the greater part of profits earned accumulated adequate capital for the conduct of affairs on a broader scale.

That the factories could thrive in spite of all these hindrances was due to two reasons.

1.First there were the teachings of the new social philosophy expounded by the economists. They demolished the prestige of mercantilism, paternalism, and restrictionism. They exploded the superstitious belief that labor-saving devices and processes cause unemployment and reduce all people to poverty and decay. The laissez-faire economists were the pioneers of the unprecedented technological achievements of the last 200 years.

2.Then there was another factor that weakened the opposition to innovations. The factories freed the authorities and the ruling landed aristocracy from an embarrassing problem that had grown too large for them. They provided sustenance for the masses of paupers. They emptied the poorhouses, the workhouses, and the prisons. They converted starving beggars into self-supporting breadwinners.

The factory owners did not have the power to compel anybody to take a factory job. They could only hire people who were ready to work for the wages offered to them. Low as these wage rates were, they were nonetheless much more than these paupers could earn in any other field open to them. It is a distortion of facts to say that the factories carried off the housewives from the nurseries and the kitchens and the children from their play. These women had nothing to cook with and to feed their children. These children were destitute and starving. Their only refuge was the factory. It saved them, in the strict sense of the term, from death by starvation.