If you see something...film something

[uglypitbullcaptain of 1,000]

This might shock some of you, but its happening a lot more lately. It recently hit home as it happened to a family member who's crime was being nervous when pulled over and let his clutch pop when he reached for his insurance paper. He was promptly pulled out of the car, beaten unconscious by 4 cops, and woke up the next day in the hospital. Naturally, they don't have cameras in their cars anymore, apparently too many lawsuits being won by citizens for police brutality in that particular city. Rather than address the issue with the personnel, they hide the evidence. Nice

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

And then theres the other side of the story. My Dad was an officer in his younger days. The crap they go through would make anybody abusive. Not sayin its right.

[uglypitbullcaptain of 1,000]

Other side of WHAT story? This video proves part of my point. This guy was sitting on his bike and was harassed by a cop. Did he commit a crime? No. Did he break any laws? No. He is probably sick and tired of being screwed with. In the end he was let go because he was in the right.
I know some cops too, some are bad and some are good. There seem to be a lot more bad ones these days. If they cant handle the stress or pressure, there are plenty of other career choices out there.
Is it right when someone who has a bad day feels justified in taking it out on everyone else?

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

On other threads, we've been discussing a lot lately regarding compulsion and "unrighteous dominion" (DC 121).

I believe it is a HUGE problem, getting worse.
You may have heard about this handcuffed girl, who decided too late she did not want to go along with being arrested. See her try to run. See the "brave" police officer a few feet away TASER her in the back. See her lose control, fall and hit her head.

She is now brain-dead.

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

Other side of WHAT story? This video proves part of my point. This guy was sitting on his bike and was harassed by a cop. Did he commit a crime? No. Did he break any laws? No. He is probably sick and tired of being screwed with. In the end he was let go because he was in the right.
I know some cops too, some are bad and some are good. There seem to be a lot more bad ones these days. If they cant handle the stress or pressure, there are plenty of other career choices out there.
Is it right when someone who has a bad day feels justified in taking it out on everyone else?

It was obvious that he had a record and recently had his license suspended. I liked the way the officer was not intimidated. Pitt, there is always 2 sides to a pancake. But I agree, cops are getting more violent and so is the general public. There's gonna be a revolution!

No, its not right to have a bad day and take it out on someone else. I hope this isn't one of those days for you!

[Fiannancaptain of 1,000]

Dr. Jones I could not follow your link but I looked it up. A 270 pound cop tasers a 100 pound 20 year old woman who is already handcuffed and due to the fall she is brain dead. And the cop acted properly? Couldn't he have waddled his big rear end fast enough to catch her without using his toy to essentially kill her? I could say that I hope that image haunts him for life but then again I cannot be certain he lost any sleep over it.

[Fiannancaptain of 1,000]

By the way was that video with the Hells Angel guy from the 1980s? There were more mustaches in that clip than one would see in a gay bar.

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

By the way was that video with the Hells Angel guy from the 1980s? There were more mustaches in that clip than one would see in a gay bar.

I've never been in a gay bar.

[Spencecaptain of 1,000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R0a8Cce ... re=player_

These tyrants(i.e. law enforcement) ought to be brought up on charges of treason. "I'm told this is against the law" Oh yeah? Like it was against the law to be a jew? Treason I tell you.

[karen2cruisecaptain of 100]

Everyone should download on their phones the app called "Qik video". You turn it on and it immediately streams to your facebook or email, however you set this up. When approached by law enforcement turn on your phone to video the encounter. No way for authorities to "break" the phone to erase the encounter.

Know your rights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpeGUTfN ... ure=fvwrel

follow up video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv ... pkDrIbKIq4


what homeland security can and cannot do:
http://www.nyclu.org/files/releases/FPS ... 0(redacted).pdf


Brown v. Texas
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Brown v. Texas, 443 U. S. 47 (1979) is a United States Supreme Court case. It determined that the defendant's arrest in El Paso County, Texas for a refusal to identify himself, after being seen and questioned in a high crime area, was not based on a reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing and thus violated the Fourth Amendment. It is an important case for Stop and Identify statutes in the United States.The decision was written by Chief Justice Warren Burger and unanimously supported by the other justices.

His summary of the factual elements of the case includes the following:
"Two police officers, while cruising near noon in a patrol car, observed appellant and another man walking away from one another in an alley in an area with a high incidence of drug traffic. They stopped and asked appellant to identify himself and explain what he was doing. One officer testified that he stopped appellant because the situation "looked suspicious and we had never seen that subject in that area before." The officers did not claim to suspect appellant of any specific misconduct, nor did they have any reason to believe that he was armed. When appellant refused to identify himself, he was arrested for violation of a Texas statute which makes it a criminal act for a person to refuse to give his name and address to an officer "who has lawfully stopped him and requested the information."

The finding held that:
"The application of the Texas statute to detain appellant and require him to identify himself violated the Fourth Amendment because the officers lacked any reasonable suspicion to believe that appellant was engaged or had engaged in criminal conduct. Detaining appellant to require him to identify himself constituted a seizure of his person subject to the requirement of the Fourth Amendment that the seizure be "reasonable."

(Fourth Amendment- The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.)


Terry stop
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In the United States, a Terry stop is a brief detention of a person by police on reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity but short of probable cause to arrest.

The name derives from Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that police may briefly detain a person who they reasonably suspect is involved in criminal activity; the Court also held that police may do a limited search of the suspect’s outer garments for weapons if they have a reasonable and articulable suspicion that the person detained may be “armed and dangerous”. When a search for weapons is authorized, the procedure is known as “stop and frisk”.

To have reasonable suspicion that would justify a stop, police must be able to point to “specific and articulable facts” that would indicate to a reasonable person that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed. Reasonable suspicion depends on the “totality of the circumstances”, and can result from a combination of facts, each of which is by itself innocuous.[7)

The search of the suspect’s outer garments, also known as a patdown, must be limited to what is necessary to discover weapons; however, pursuant to the “plain feel” doctrine, police may seize contraband discovered in the course of a frisk, but only if the contraband’s identity is immediately apparent. In some jurisdictions, persons detained under the doctrine of Terry must identify themselves to police upon request. In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177, the Court held that a Nevada statute requiring such identification did not violate the Fourth Amendment’s prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures, or, in the circumstances of that case, the Fifth Amendment’s privilege against self incrimination.

[uglypitbullcaptain of 1,000]

Everyone should download on their phones the app called "Qik video". You turn it on and it immediately streams to your facebook or email, however you set this up. When approached by law enforcement turn on your phone to video the encounter. No way for authorities to "break" the phone to erase the encounter.

excellent app!

[sadie_Mormoncaptain of 1,000]

Other side of WHAT story? This video proves part of my point. This guy was sitting on his bike and was harassed by a cop. Did he commit a crime? No. Did he break any laws? No. He is probably sick and tired of being screwed with. In the end he was let go because he was in the right.

In regards to this Hells Angel and cop, speaking from experience these motorcycle “clubs” have a very different view on living life. They do not follow the laws of the land and identify themselves as the 1%. They proudly display this 1% tattoo to tell the world that they follow their own laws. They have no regard for human life and treat their wives like property while screwing whores each night after the bar with the guys. They are large manufacturers of methamphetamine and have strong ties to the mob acting as their strong arms.

They have a true hate for cops and won’t hesitate to use violence against them. Police have to assume they are up to no good because the majority of the time that is the case. He may not have broken any laws at that moment, but he did either before or will after the case.

I'm not impressed by all this video recording going on by civilians because they only show you what they want you to see. We watch these videos for the shock value. People have become so desensitized that we have to one up the last one to get peoples reaction. This is what fuels the need to edit this tapes leaving out things that are necessary to make a conclusion. We have become a society of guilty before proven innocent. It’s sad.

In no way do I advocate unnecessary violence, but I do think we have to see it from both sides. I have several cop and FBI friends and speaking to them over the years has helped me understand how they see things. I like many was always quick to judgment thinking I knew all the facts when indeed I did not. They think 10 steps ahead, and with each year of experience they get better at identifying trouble and their patterns. Based on many of these videos you don’t know what happened before the violent response. Those who tape it can easily cut out the beginning and only show the violence. We only need to look at how Zimmerman’s audio got edited in such a way it made him look like a racist.

As we all know there are bad cops and good cops just like there are good and bad people in the world. Of course I’m human but I try not to assume until I know all the facts. I think all would agree that this becomes even more difficult to do when it is someone you know personally.

As it was said earlier each side has a story and unfortunately the majority of us are not privy to all the facts to make an accurate judgment.

To think there was a time when a mans word was good enough...

[Fiannancaptain of 1,000]

In regards to this Hells Angel and cop, speaking from experience these motorcycle “clubs” have a very different view on living life. They do not follow the laws of the land and identify themselves as the 1%. They proudly display this 1% tattoo to tell the world that they follow their own laws. They have no regard for human life and treat their wives like property while screwing whores each night after the bar with the guys. They are large manufacturers of methamphetamine and have strong ties to the mob acting as their strong arms.

Wow, they act just like politicians in every respect!

[sadie_Mormoncaptain of 1,000]

In regards to this Hells Angel and cop, speaking from experience these motorcycle “clubs” have a very different view on living life. They do not follow the laws of the land and identify themselves as the 1%. They proudly display this 1% tattoo to tell the world that they follow their own laws. They have no regard for human life and treat their wives like property while screwing whores each night after the bar with the guys. They are large manufacturers of methamphetamine and have strong ties to the mob acting as their strong arms.

Wow, they act just like politicians in every respect!

LOL, too funny!

[Spencecaptain of 1,000]

I totally disagree that cops are being mischaracterized and slandered Sadie. There has been a change in the past 15-25 years, especially the last 10. Something is wrong with our police system. I got pulled over for speeding, didn't admit I was speeding and told the guy I know my rights, was called "a dick" and was verbally assaulted in an attempt to intimidate. My military service was questioned and threats we made. All for speeding at what would be a reasonable speed on the interstate. To top that off he had to call for backup since apparently being a concealed carry permit holder makes me some dangerous criminal.

Sorry cops are in the wrong because of the training they recieve. They a told to intimidate and berate people to make them cower in fear rather than keep the "peace. Their rules of engagement are less strict that the ROE's that military follow in combat zones. That is really all you need to know that something is wrong. I can't shoot unless a gun has been raised at me. They can shoot you for anything as long as they can justify that "someone is in danger." Honestly, that is their ROE's, they can use force if "someone is in danger." REALLLY!!!!???

If you don't believe me? Read this article about a gay female cop that is about to be fired because she didn't like her other cops trying to beat up some mentally ill kid and some small drunk lady.

http://lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w256.html

[Fairmindedcaptain of 1,000]

I totally disagree that cops are being mischaracterized and slandered Sadie. There has been a change in the past 15-25 years, especially the last 10. Something is wrong with our police system. I got pulled over for speeding, didn't admit I was speeding and told the guy I know my rights, was called "a dick" and was verbally assaulted in an attempt to intimidate. My military service was questioned and threats we made. All for speeding at what would be a reasonable speed on the interstate. To top that off he had to call for backup since apparently being a concealed carry permit holder makes me some dangerous criminal.

Sorry cops are in the wrong because of the training they recieve. They a told to intimidate and berate people to make them cower in fear rather than keep the "peace. Their rules of engagement are less strict that the ROE's that military follow in combat zones. That is really all you need to know that something is wrong. I can't shoot unless a gun has been raised at me. They can shoot you for anything as long as they can justify that "someone is in danger." Honestly, that is their ROE's, they can use force if "someone is in danger." REALLLY!!!!???

If you don't believe me? Read this article about a gay female cop that is about to be fired because she didn't like her other cops trying to beat up some mentally ill kid and some small drunk lady.

http://lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w256.html

+1

I'm sure we'd all love it if cops were the heroes protecting the citizenry from criminals that they portray themselves to be, but sadly these days law enforcement is a far bigger danger to the average citizen than any criminal. They've gone from protecting and serving to being the thugs and revenue collectors of an oppressive local, state, and federal government.

I realize this is a generalization, and that there are decent police officers who want to help people. But rather than bygone times when they were the majority, now they're the minority, quickly jaded by a corrupt establishment or forced to quit. These days law enforcement is taught to fear the public, that citizens are the enemy, and that they should use violent, even lethal force at the earliest excuse to protect their own safety.

They're still here to watch over us, but in a far different and more sinister way. Citizens shouldn't have to feel fear every time they see a police car or when an officer passes them in a store or restaurant.

[sadie_Mormoncaptain of 1,000]

I totally I got pulled over for speeding, didn't admit I was speeding and told the guy I know my rights, was called "a dick" and was verbally assaulted in an attempt to intimidate. My military service was questioned and threats we made. All for speeding at what would be a reasonable speed on the interstate. To top that off he had to call for backup since apparently being a concealed carry permit holder makes me some dangerous criminal.

Might I ask why you felt the need to say "I know my rights"? Were you speeding?


Of course I don't know the entirety of your experience considering the officer is not represented here. If indeed this was an abusive situation for which you did not taunt the officer into thinking you were a danger then I'm sorry to hear you went through that experience.

Did you initially come off in defensive mode because you were angry to be stopped when you knew you were speeding?

Did you speak in a tone that would have presented you in a threatening way?

I’m very curious to hear your answer to my first question regarding the need you felt to say, “I know my rights”.

Sometimes we can come off in a threatening way even when there is no justification to do so. I’m certainly guilty of having done that in the past.

[AGStackercaptain of 100]

I have to side with Dr Jones here. The people become increasingly wicked. Cops aren't immune to this and one of THE GREATEST tests in our lives is to not exercise unrighteous dominion. Cops are increasingly doing this. I never mouth off to a cop but try to be as saintly as possible around them. I don't want to stir any hornet's nest that has the power to take away nearly all of my agency.

[Legioncaptain of 1,000]

I have to side with Dr Jones here. The people become increasingly wicked. Cops aren't immune to this and one of THE GREATEST tests in our lives is to not exercise unrighteous dominion. Cops are increasingly doing this. I never mouth off to a cop but try to be as saintly as possible around them. I don't want to stir any hornet's nest that has the power to take away nearly all of my agency.

Another symptom in the sea of symptoms. Do we combat symptoms or strike at the root?

[uglypitbullcaptain of 1,000]

Might I ask why you felt the need to say "I know my rights"? Were you speeding?

Of course I don't know the entirety of your experience considering the officer is not represented here. If indeed this was an abusive situation for which you did not taunt the officer into thinking you were a danger then I'm sorry to hear you went through that experience.

Did you initially come off in defensive mode because you were angry to be stopped when you knew you were speeding?

Did you speak in a tone that would have presented you in a threatening way?

I’m very curious to hear your answer to my first question regarding the need you felt to say, “I know my rights”.

Sometimes we can come off in a threatening way even when there is no justification to do so. I’m certainly guilty of having done that in the past.

He probably informed the officer that he knew his rights, because they like to twist your words and entrap you into admitting something that you weren't doing. This happens all the time. I was pulled over in the middle of a snowstorm in Utah for having dark window tint. I live in AZ....we have different laws regarding shade limits than Utah. The cop who pulled me over proceeded to lecture me on the law in Utah and how my tint wasn't legal. He gave me a ticket for it even though it was legal in AZ.....and a warning for having no proof of insurance. I gave him my insurance card!!! The ticket was promptly dismissed and the court had no explanation for it....or as to why I got a warning for something I provided to him. This guy was looking for something....anything, and being from out of state, I was probably viewed as a cash cow. He was rude, belligerent, and obviously very stupid.
I too remember the day when the police would actually talk with you (not grill you) while they performed their duties. I used to live behind a cop who would have other cops over to party.....I heard story after story of what kind of abuses they performed on people....laughing about it the whole time. He was driving home from a bar one night when he hit and killed a kid riding a skateboard on the sidewalk....he moved shortly after that. I have also met a few Hells Angels back in my day, and they were friendly, easy to get along with, and just looking to party. Sure they could be hardened criminals any other day of the week, but the one in the video wasn't committing any crime at the time he was singled out. The only reason the cop kept his cool was because COPS was filming it.

[sadie_Mormoncaptain of 1,000]

I'm sure we'd all love it if cops were the heroes protecting the citizenry from criminals that they portray themselves to be, but sadly these days law enforcement is a far bigger danger to the average citizen than any criminal. They've gone from protecting and serving to being the thugs and revenue collectors of an oppressive local, state, and federal government.

Would you agree that there is a difference between a cop and a criminal civilian versus a cop and a non-criminal civilian situation?

I agree that there are citizens who are treated horribly by those who have a false sense of authority. However there are times we can taunt someone to the point of getting a negative reaction.

I think our invasion of privacy should be factored into the equation of why we seem more skitish around those in positions such as cops. It certainly makes me feel more vulnerable. Makes one rethink how to choose to communicate and what is disclose.

I try to pay close attention to how people approach situations and their reactions. I can't help but notice that at times those who had acting belligerent end up crying that in fact they were the ones being attacked or mistreated. I’m speaking of someone who actually did do something wrong or made a situation unnecessarily dramatic.

[sadie_Mormoncaptain of 1,000]

[I heard story after story of what kind of abuses they performed on people....laughing about it the whole time.

I was a brunt of police humor several times in my life. Once I was pulled over on a local highway. The officer told me to get out of the car and stand there. I'll admit I was scared. As I looked up I see 8 more police cars speeding towards my car lights sirens and all. Four in front of my car and Four in back of the other cops car. Being scared quickly turned to fear. The officers were getting out of their vehicles walking towards me and I see one of my friends walking towards me laughing. It took everything for me not to punch him in the face. My temper got the best of me and a couple of them had to pull me off of him. Looking back I overreacted but boy I was angry. That story was the running joke for years at BBQ's and parties.

When I was 22 I was driving through a bad part of the city where I witnessed a hit and run. As the officer finished asking me question he proposes an offer to avoid having myself hauled off for a DUI (this was before I was LDS). What can you say? Even though I clearly wasn't over the limit I didn't have a chance. The following morning at 7am the chief of police calls me to confirm I will follow through with my "agreement". In a complete panic I drove what felt like 100 MPH to one of my cop friends home. I was crying so hard I could hardly breath. Fortunately he was able to pull some strings and make that "agreement" go away. However before he agreed to pulling those strings I found myself now in an "agreement" with my friend... I payed the price for that favor.

Fortunately I'm older and wiser now.

[karen2cruisecaptain of 100]

Wow- where's the presumption of innocence? I've had biker friends in the past and they werent anything as described here. At times I've had teenagers, and belligerent parents, while in the PTA positions or subbing give me attitude. In customer service sometimes the customers would give attitutde. As a supposedly mature adult...we didnt yell back, threaten, try to coerce etc. My job was to calm the person and have a reasonable conversation with them. A cop's job is not to react to attitude. Yea he has a hard job but so do all the underpaid customer service people in the world, or the nurses, or the teachers. It isnt an excuse for the people who are supposed to protect us to intimidate us.

The "rights" we have are that- "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." We have the right to ask why we are being asked for ID, we can say "I do not give my consent for my car, person and house to be searched". By "law" cops can lie and say anything they want in hopes to intimidate us into saying or doing what they want.

Any encounter with law folk should be filmed.

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

How to make a Police Officer mad:

When he asks why you were speeding, tell him you had to buy a hat.

Ask him where he bought his cool hat.

Refer to him by his first name.

If he asks you to step out of the car, automatically throw yourself on the hood.

After you sign the ticket and give it to him, say "Oops! That's my LDS Freedom Forum name!

Bribe him with donuts, and when he agrees, tell him sorry, I just ate the last one.

Trip and fall into him.

Accuse him of police brutality when he pushes you away.

Before you sign the ticket, pick your nose. You have to sign with his pen.

Clean your ear with the pen.

Ask if he watches Cops.

Ask if ever watched Cop Rock.

Giggle if he did.

If he sticks you in the back of the car, cower in the corner, suck your thumb, and whine.

Ask if you can borrow his uniform for a Halloween party

Tell him you are voting for Mitt Romney, he'll let you go!

[karen2cruisecaptain of 100]

If he asks you to step out of the car, automatically throw yourself on the hood.

Before you sign the ticket, pick your nose. You have to sign with his pen.

Clean your ear with the pen.

My favs

[sadie_Mormoncaptain of 1,000]

Hilarious Juliette!!

[DrJonescaptain of 1,000]

We have the right to ask why we are being asked for ID, we can say "I do not give my consent for my car, person and house to be searched". By "law" cops can lie and say anything they want in hopes to intimidate us into saying or doing what they want.

Any encounter with law folk should be filmed.

Good points -- I agree with the filming which is still legal!

I can think right off of three experiences I had with police officers that I wish I had filmed. I began to pursue the first one which had cost me a lot and where the officer was clearly (OK, IMO as a physicist) in the wrong, but I was prayerful and felt that I should let it go in this case. Which I did.

We can also film what TSA agents do to others in front of us in line, perhaps help out someone being mistreated. I understand the TSA is hated or feared now more than the IRS.

[uglypitbullcaptain of 1,000]

How to make a Police Officer mad:

you forgot this one......

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

How to make a Police Officer mad:

you forgot this one......

I didn't get the pic, repost as I know it will make me laugh!

[sadie_Mormoncaptain of 1,000]

What is hanging off of their sticks?