The Most brutal empire in history

[BlueMoon5]

. . . Oh yes...I make a fundamental error in making the assumption that we are governed by principles....how dare I....
I should follow your lead instead and justify satanic practices because wicked men happen to make it "legal"....

We are governed by principles, but they are not driven by a theocracy based on LDS doctrine. That must wait for another day.

What's your point??? How does that justify wickedness......or rationalizing wickedness???

I didn't say, as you suppose, that the serious failings of humankind (sins of commission and omission) justify wickedness. I said that Satan is unbound; hence, the natural man (inside and outside of the LDS Church) is vulnerable to his evil influences. The millennium and Christ's reign are not yet here.

: You are rationalizing or supporting/justifying taking someone's ability to procreate away (as well as infecting with infectious diseases and even taking their life)....secretly and against their will. That is wickedness if there ever was wickedness.

One of the greatest gifts God has given us in this earthly experience is the capability to procreate. You have been rationalizing and justifying taking that gift away from a brother or sister in secret against their will. Please explain how that is not satanic doctrine!

I have done no such thing. I have said that the program was well-intentioned, and--in fact--it benefitted at least some women who could ill afford to have another child, inasmuch as they already had 6 or more from different fathers, all of whom moved on to impregnate still more women. Note, too, that 1) the women were not entirely blameless; and 2) some welcomed the fact that they would not have to bear more children. If there's anything satanic about that scenario it relates principally to the sperm donors, not to the eugenics program proper.

As I have said before, Jason, it seems to me that you consistently overlook the fact that a middle ground exists re. difficult issues; i.e., not everything has to be polarized.

Please visit the Church's online Gospel Library and open "Birth Control." There you will find the following statement:

"When husband and wife are physically able, they have the privilege and responsibility to bring children into the world and to nurture them. . . . Husband and wife are encouraged to pray and counsel together as they plan their families. Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children."

What do you think the health/financial status was of many of the poor women who were burdened with caring for 6+ children without the help of a husband? Any thoughts about that?

: ...you digress away from the issue - that it was done against their will and in secret. If they volunteered it would be an entirely different matter. But no we have people who played God and based on IQ tests or skin color....did some horrific things to other people in secret without their knowledge. This was a direct violation of their inalienable rights (bestowed by God). And you justify that....

Your absolutist mindset is on full display here. The church states (above): "Husband and wife are encouraged to pray and counsel together as they plan their families. Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children." Many/most of the women in the eugenics program were not LDS and did not have husbands. Furthermore, most of those women were dirt-poor, victims of a variety of mental and physical ailments, and (once again) already burdened with too many children. Additionally, some had no understanding of birth control. So, if an LDS couple, as a result of praying and fasting--based on church counsel--determines that they should not have more children, is that wickedness? Is that a direct violation of their inalienable rights? Your understandable rejoinder will be, "Of course not; they had full disclosure." The designers of the eugenics program, seeing the plight of certain women, and seeing that they had no one to whom they could turn (and, yes, recognizing the burden they were placing on the welfare system), took the initiative to come to their aid and did so with the best of intentions. Did that constitute wickedness? What if disclosure had been given to the women? How many of them, given their desperate circumstances, would have said, in effect, "Oh, no, I want more children--seven isn't enough!" I don't pretend to know the answer, but I can make a well-reasoned guess. And what of the children born in abject poverty without a father for a role model? What would the future hold for them--and for society? Your characterization of the eugenics program as wickedness per se (I'll cut your some slack) is unreasonable and unfair. You don't know even a tenth of the circumstances; you weren't there. Were there abuses? Of course; a recent TV documentary tells the heart-rending story of a woman who, as I recall, didn't have any children and was still sterilized--and without her knowledge. I think that's indefensible; and yes, I think that's wickedness.

[Jason]

Your absolutist mindset is on full display here. The church states (above): "Husband and wife are encouraged to pray and counsel together as they plan their families. Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children." Many/most of the women in the eugenics program were not LDS and did not have husbands. Furthermore, most of those women were dirt-poor, victims of a variety of mental and physical ailments, and (once again) already burdened with too many children. Additionally, some had no understanding of birth control. So, if an LDS couple, as a result of praying and fasting--based on church counsel--determines that they should not have more children, is that wickedness? Is that a direct violation of their inalienable rights? Your understandable rejoinder will be, "Of course not; they had full disclosure." The designers of the eugenics program, seeing the plight of certain women, and seeing that they had no one to whom they could turn (and, yes, recognizing the burden they were placing on the welfare system), took the initiative to come to their aid and did so with the best of intentions. Did that constitute wickedness? What if disclosure had been given to the women? How many of them, given their desperate circumstances, would have said, in effect, "Oh, no, I want more children--seven isn't enough!" I don't pretend to know the answer, but I can make a well-reasoned guess. And what of the children born in abject poverty without a father for a role model? What would the future hold for them--and for society? Your characterization of the eugenics program as wickedness per se (I'll cut your some slack) is unreasonable and unfair. You don't know even a tenth of the circumstances; you weren't there. Were there abuses? Of course; a recent TV documentary tells the heart-rending story of a woman who, as I recall, didn't have any children and was still sterilized--and without her knowledge. I think that's indefensible; and yes, I think that's wickedness.

Were you there? Did you participate? Based on what little knowledge of history that you have demonstrated thus far (as well as understanding of principles of agency and governance)....I'm definitely not going to take your word of it.

I notice you keep ignoring the aspect where they made the decision based on IQ tests....as well as giving them diseases....and killing some of them. If they were doing it in secret without respect to individual rights (against their will or without their knowledge and consent)....whether legal or not....it was wickedness. End of story.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions....and poor principles. Good luck with trying to walk the gray road....

No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and Mammon.

http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/13.24?lang=eng#23" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/luke/16.13?lang=eng#12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/6.24?lang=eng#23" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jason]

Jason:
The Constitution is already dead. It will be saved via the hearts of those who rebuild. The country will die as well.

So you disagree with our modern prophets who prophesied that the Constitution would hang by a thread, not “die”, and be saved by the righteous priesthood holders of that day. The country as we know it will end but the Constitution will survive. I believe that those who hate this country, for example many who post on this forum, are helping those who want the Constitution to be replaced by Socialism and Marxism. I’ll repeat my opinion that “the hateful propaganda of the LDGs will discourage the deceived to not try to save the Constitution but stand back, doing nothing, and watch it fall with relish”.

OMD

Just calling a spade a spade. fyi - no hate for the country (spent 7 years in the Marine Corps risking my life in what I thought at the time was service to my country)....just hate for what it has become (tool in the hand of the gadiantons)....and disgust for the ignorant (as well as willing) schmucks who allowed it to happen (including those who shove their head up their hind ends in effort to ignore our current awful situation and pretend its something that it isn't)....

“If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers — normally good Americans, but Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free — Americans who have been lulled away into a false security.. . . . The facts are clear. Our problem centers in Washington, D.C. And this applies to the administration of both political parties”

- Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1968, pp. 50–52.

“We are going through what J. Reuben Clark, Jr., once termed the greatest propaganda campaign of all time. We cannot believe all we read, and what we can believe is not all of the same value. We must sift. We must learn by study and prayer.”

- Ezra Taft Benson, The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 302.

“Secret combinations flourished because, as Helaman tells us, the Gadianton robbers ‘had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils’ (Helaman 6:38)... even as today.”

- Ezra Taft Benson, The Savior’s Visit to America, Ensign, p. 4. May 1987

“I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world.”

- Ezra Taft Benson, I Testify, Ensign, p. 87. November 1988.

“Those who subscribe to this [totalitarian] philosophy stop at nothing to achieve their ends...force, trickery, lies, broken promises, mayhem, and individual and mass murder.”

- Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1960.

....now speaking of threads and the Constitution -

You and I have heard all our lives that the time may come when the Constitution may hang by a thread. I do not know whether it is a thread, or a small rope by which it now hangs, but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance.

- J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Conference Report, October 1942, p. 58

Our great Constitution has been beaten and torn until now it hangs by a single thread, and that thread is our franchise to vote.

-Ezra Taft Benson, 1976, Freeman Institute, Provo, Utah

You know, comrades, that I think in regard to this: I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how.

- Joseph Stalin, "Memoirs of the former secretary of Stalin" by Boris Bazhanov

...so leveraging off of Ezra Taft Benson's reference in that the sole remaining thread was the franchise or right to vote...

20 Amazing Facts About Voting in the USA

1. 80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies: Diebold and ES&S.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/04 ... andes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/04 ... andes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3. The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/p ... mpany.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/04 ... andes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4. The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/ ... 2436.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

5. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S. He became Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/c ... 3_200.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/03 ... rakis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

6. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.

http://www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.p ... cle&sid=26" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

7. Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice-presidential candidates.

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_28/b3689130.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://theindependent.com/stories/05270 ... gel27.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

8. ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the U.S. and counts almost 60% of all U.S. votes.

http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/04 ... andes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


9. Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/041020 ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


10. Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.diebold.com/solutions/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

11. Diebold is based in Ohio.

http://www.diebold.com/aboutus/ataglance/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

12. Diebold employed 5 convicted felons as consultants and developers to help write the central compiler computer code that counted 50% of the votes in 30 states.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/301469.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

13. Jeff Dean was Senior Vice-President of Global Election Systems when it was bought by Diebold. Even though he had been convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree, Jeff Dean was retained as a consultant by Diebold and was largely responsible for programming the optical scanning software now used in most of the United States.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0312/S00191.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

14. Diebold consultant Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.

http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

15. None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

http://www.globalexchange.org/update/press/2638.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/1 ... lexoh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

16. California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it! (See the movie here: http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.)

http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

17. 30% of all U.S. votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/ ... 2436.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

18. All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAft ... hIsOut.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?o ... le&sid=950" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

19. The governor of the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is the President's brother.

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahas ... 628725.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Oct29.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

20. Serious voting anomalies in Florida -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAft ... hIsOut.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.computerworld.com/government ... 14,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/t ... sands.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://uscountvotes.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... facts.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As you can see from the previous links and info......the industry has consolidated much further since this article was written. ES&S purchased Diebold (renamed Premier Election Solutions prior to the sale to ES&S to keep attention down - like Blackwater renaming itself Xe Services Inc.)...then when protests go nuts....this little privately held Canadian company moves to the US and somehow purchases #2 market leader Diebold from ES&S and then just a month later the #3 market leader Sequoia. Isn't that just amazing that this tiny little Canadian company (roughly 8 years old) is able to gobble up #2 & #3 market leaders in the industry? Companies exponentially larger????

Now 95% of the market resides with 2 companies. ES&S and DVS.....the only two votes that matter!!!

We are much more than a systems manufacturer; we are an election solutions company.

http://www.dominionvoting.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

....all that said.....the sole remaining thread (or brittle hair) for the Constitution - the franchise or "right" to vote still exists. You have the right to go to the voting booths and click your choices. Doesn't mean it gets counted though....so for all intents and purposes (ours)....especially on the national level....the Constitution is essentially dead. I anticipate that will come to an end this next year with full implementation of martial law and the final demise of the nation as we know it.

While nearly all Americans head to family and friends to celebrate Thanksgiving, the Senate is gearing up for a vote on Monday or Tuesday that goes to the very heart of who we are as Americans. The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself.

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-secur ... fine-being" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Senate To Vote On Legislation That Allows U.S. Military to Detain Americans Without Charge or Trial
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/s ... l_11252011" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Black Friday Bloodbath…
http://deadlinelive.info/2011/11/25/bla ... bloodbath/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you really want to change things, you first need to come to terms with just how corrupt and evil the current system is.

An incomplete understanding of the situation will lead to half baked solutions that accomplish nothing.

http://www.waitingforthestorm.com/nazi- ... vernment-0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

....and more respective quotes and prophesies....

It is no wonder that the Prophet Joseph said—even though he knew he would suffer martyrdom in this land—“The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner.”

Yet, according to his contemporaries, he foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents—the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

- Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85

When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the “Mormon” elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it.

– Brigham Young, JD 2:182, February 18, 1855, Latter Day Prophets Speaks. Pg. 230

When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States, the elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men and extending the hand of fellowship to the oppressed of all nations. This is part of the program and as long as we do what is right and fear God He will help us and stand by us under all circumstances.

– John Taylor, JD 21:8, August 31, 1879

Brethren and sisters, let me say in closing that we have it of record, that the prophet Joseph Smith said the time will come when, through secret organizations taking the law into their own hands, not being governed by law or by due process of law, but becoming a law unto themselves, when, by those disintegrating activities, the Constitution of the United States would be so torn and rent asunder, and life and property and peace and security would be held of so little value, that the Constitution would, as it were, hang by a thread. But he never said, so far as I have heard, that that thread would be cut. I believe, with Elder Richards, that this Constitution will be preserved, but it will be preserved very largely in consequence of what the Lord has revealed and what this people, through listening to the Lord and being obedient, will help to bring about, to stabilize and give permanency and effect to the Constitution itself. That also is our mission. That also is what we are here for. I glory in it. I praise god with all my heart and soul that I am a member of it.

- Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, October 1923, p. 62

“We stand in danger of losing our liberties, and that once lost, only blood will bring them back; and we of this church will, in order to keep the Church going forward, have more sacrifices to make, and more persecutions to endure than we have yet known. If the conspiracy comes here it will probably come in its full vigor and there will be a lot of vacant places among those who guide and direct, not only this government, but also this Church of ours. We face a war to the death, a gigantic worldwide struggle. We must face it, enter it, take part in it. In fact, we are all taking part in the struggle, whether we will or not. Upon its final issue, liberty lives or dies.”

– J. Reuben Clark, CR Apr 1944 & 1952

“I warn you, unless we wake up soon and do something about the conspiracy, the communist-inspired civil rights riots of the past will pale into insignificance compared to the bloodshed and destruction that lie ahead in the near future. Do not think the members of the Church shall escape. The Lord has assured us that the Church will still be here when he comes again. But has the Lord assured us that we can avoid fighting for freedom and still escape unscathed both temporally and spiritually? We could not escape the eternal consequences of our pre-existent position on freedom. What makes us think we can escape it here?”

– Ezra Taft Benson, Oct 1966, BYU

“There is no place here in America for part-time patriots. This nation is face to face with the greatest danger ever to confront it, a sinister and deadly conspiracy which can be conquered only by an alert, informed citizenry.”

– David O. McKay quoting J. Edgar Hoover, GC April 1962

“It is time, therefore, that every American, and especially every member of the priesthood, became informed about the aims, tactics, and schemes of socialistic-communism. This becomes particularly important when it is realized that communism is turning out to be the earthly image of the plan which Satan presented in the pre-existence. The whole program of socialistic- communism is essentially a war against God and the plan of salvation—the very plan which we fought to uphold during ‘the war in heaven.’”

- Ezra Taft Benson, Secret Combinations, Conference Report, October 1961.

“As important as are all other principles of the gospel, it was the freedom issue which determined whether you received a body. To have been on the wrong side of the freedom issue during the war in heaven meant eternal damnation. How then can Latter-day Saints expect to be on the wrong side in this life and escape the eternal consequences? The war in heaven is raging on earth today. The issues are the same: ‘Shall men be compelled to do what others claim is for their best welfare’ or will they heed the counsel of the prophet and preserve their freedom?”

- Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1965.

"All that you know now can scarcely be called a preface to the sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes, hail, rain and fearful destruction. What matters the destruction of a few railway cars? You will hear of magnificent cities, now idolized by the people, sinking in the earth entombing its inhabitants. The sea will heave itself beyond its bounds, engulfing many cities. Famine will spread over the nation, and nation will rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom, states against states, in our own country and in foreign lands."

Brigham Young - Modin, D.: & Comstock, Tamara: Prophecy 1973-2000; 1972, Hermes House

"What then will be the condition of the people when the great and dreadful war will come? It will be very different from the war between the North and South. It will be neighborhood against neighborhood, city against city, town against town, state against state, and they will go forth destroying and being destroyed. Manufacturing will almost cease, great cities will be left desolate. The time will come when the great city of New York will be left without inhabitants...

"When that day shall come (when the missionaries will be called home) there shall be wars, not such wars as have come in centuries and years that are past and gone, but a dsolating war. When I say desolating, I mean that it will lay these european nations in waste. Cities will be left vacated, without inhabitants. The people will be destroyed by the sword of their own hands. Not only this but many other cities will be burned; for when contending armies are wrought up with the terrible anger, without the Spirit of God upon them, when they have not that spirit of humanity that now characterizes many of the wars amongst nations, when they are left to themselves, there will be no quarter given, no prisoners taken, but a war of destruction, of desolation, of the burning of the cities and villages, until the land is laid desolate."

- Orson Pratt (J. Disc. 20: 150)

"The way ahead is dark and dreary and dreadful. There will yet be martyrs; the doors in Carthage shall again enclose the innocent. We have not been promised that the trials and evils of the world will entirely pass us by.”

“This is the great day of Satan’s power. Gadianton robbers fill the judgment seats in many nations. For those who finish their journey to Mount Zion, to stand with the Lamb, the way ahead is dark and dreary and dreadful. Our worst persecution is NOT behind us. The doors of Carthage shall again enclose the innocent. We shall yet weep more tears for Zion than we have ever known before.”

- Elder Bruce R. McConkie, October 1980 general conference

We have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and true religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

- John Adams, The Changing Political Thought of John Adams, Howe, p. 189

Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious they have more need of masters.

- Benjamin Franklin, Speech at the Constitutional Convention, Sept. 17, 1787

Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.

- Samuel Adams

Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ.

Ether 2:12

Wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off.
Ether 2:10

Satan is making war against...the very foundations upon which society, government, and religion rest...He plans to destroy freedom–economic, political, and religious, and to set up in place thereof the greatest, most widespread, and most complete tyranny that has ever oppressed men. He is working under such perfect disguise that many do not recognize either him or his methods. There is no crime he would not commit, no debauchery he would not set up, no plague he would not send, no heart he would not break, no life he would not take, no soul he would not destroy. He comes as a thief in the night; he is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Without their knowing it, the people are being urged down paths that lead only to destruction...

David O. McKay, Conference Report, p. 13 October 1942

"Time is on the side of truth—and truth is eternal. Those who are fighting against freedom may feel confident now, but they are shortsighted.

This is still God's world. The forces of evil, working through some mortals, have made a mess of a good part of it. But it is still God's world. In due time, when each of us has had a chance to prove ourselves-including whether or not we are going to stand up for freedom—God will interject himself, and the final and eternal victory shall be for free agency. And then shall those complacent people on the sidelines, and those who took the wrong but temporarily popular course, lament their decisions. To the patriots I say this: Take that long eternal look. Stand up for freedom, no matter what the cost. Stand up and be counted. It can help to save your soul-and maybe your country.”

- Ezra Taft Benson, An Enemy Hath Done This, p. 62





...an excerpt from "The Cleansing of America" by Cleon Skousen -

The prophets not only predicted that there would be a thorough cleansing of America, but they described how it would occur. The Lord's cleansing will include the destabilizing impact of earthquakes, tornadoes, famine, riots, and civil strife. But the primary destruction will come from a massive, cataclysmic plague. The Lord refers to it as an "overflowing" or "desolating scourge." The Bubonic Plague wiped out nearly half of Europe in a very short time, but the plague predicted for the cleansing of America sounds far worse.

Here is the way the Lord speaks of it:

"And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth amount them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fullness of my gospel; But they receive it not' for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

"And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass til they shall see an OVERFLOWING SCOURGE; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land."

This overflowing scourge is intended to cleanse and scour America of its wickedness. Therefore, the Lord said to the members of the restored Church in modern times:

...

"All the wicked shall mourn. For behold, and lo, vengeance cometh speedily upon the ungodly as the whirlwind; and who shall escape it?

"The Lord's SCOURGE shall pass over by night and by day, and the report thereof shall vex all people."

Pg. 12
Bold and Underline mine

Cleon then launches into the prophecy of it beginning upon MY HOUSE....then the vision of John Taylor -

I [] went to bed at my usual hour half past nine o'clock. I had been reading the Revelations in the French language. My mind was Calm, more so than usual if possible to be so. I Composed myself for sleep but Could not sleep. I felt a strange stupor Come over me and apparently became partially unconscious. Still I was not asleep, nor awake With stange far away dreamy feelings.

The first I recognized was that I was in the Tabernacle at Ogden sitting on the back seat in the Corner for fear they would Call upon me to Preach, which after singing the second time, they did, by Calling me to the Stand.

I arose to speak and said I did not Know that I had anything special to say Except to bear my Testimony to the Truth of the Latter Day work when all at once it seemed as though I was lifted out of myself, and I said "Yes, I have sumthing to say, it is this--some of my brethren present have been asking me what is Coming to pass, what is the wind blowing up. I will answer you right here what is Coming to pass shortly.

I was imediately in Salt lake City wandering about the streets in all parts of the City and On the door of every house I found a badge of mourning, and I Could not find a house but what was in mourning. I passed by my own house and saw the same sign there, and asked, 'Is that me that is dead?' Sumthing gave me answer, 'No, you [shall] live through it all.'

It seemed strange to me that I saw no person [on] the street in my wandering about through the City. They seemed to be in their houses with their Sick and Dead. I saw no funeral procession, or any thing of that kind, but the City looked very Still and quiet as though the people were praying and had Controll of the disease what ever it was.

I then look in all directions over the Territory, East west North and South, and I found the same mourning in every place throughout the Land. The next I knew I was Just this side of Omaha. It seemed as though I was above the Earth, looking down to it as I passed along on my way East and I saw the roads full of people, principally women, with just what they Could Carry in bundles on their backs traveling to the mountains on foot. And I wondered how they Could get there, with nothing but a small pack upon their backs. It was remarkable to me that there were so few men among them. It did not seem as though the Cars were running. The rails looked rusty, and the road abandoned, And I have no conception how I traveled myself.

As I looked down upon the people I Continued Eastward through Omaha and Council Bluffs which were full of disease, and women every whare. The States of Missouri and Illinois were in turmoil and Strife, Men killing each other, and women joining in the fight, family against family Cutting each other to pieces in the most horrid manner.

The next I was was Washington, and I found the City a desolation. The White House Empty, the Halls of Congress the same Everything in ruins. The people seemed to have fled from the City and left it to take Care of itself.

I was next in the City of Baltimore and in the square where the Monument of 1812 Stands, in front of St. Charles and other Hotels I saw the Dead piled up so high as to fill the square. I saw Mothers Cut the throats of their own Children for the sake of their blood, which they drank from their veins to quench their thirst and then lie down and die. The water of the Chesapeake and of the City were so stagnant and such a stench arose from them on account of the putrefaction of Dead bodies that the very smell Caused Death and that was singular again I saw no men except they were dead, lying in the streets, and vary few women, and they were Crazy mad, and in a dying Condition. Every whare I went I beheld the same all over the City, And it was horrible, beyond description to look at.

I thought this must be the End. But No I was seemingly in Philadelphia, and there every thing was Still. No living soul was to be seen to greet me, and it seemed as though the whole City was without an inhabitant. In arch and Chestnut Street and in fact Every whare I went the putrefaction of the Dead bodies Caused such a stench that it was impossible for any Creature to Exhist alive, nor did I see any living thing in the city.

I next found myself in Broad way New York and here it seemed the people had done their best to overcome the disease. But in wandering down Broadway I saw the bodies of Beautiful women lying stone dead, and others in a dying Condition on the side walk. I saw men Crawl out of the Cellars and rob the dead bodies of the valuables they had on and before they Could return to their coverts in the cellars they themselves would roll over a time or two and die in agony.

On some of the back street I saw Mothers kill their own Children and Eat raw flesh and then in a few minutes die themselves. Wharever I went I saw the same scenes of Horror and Desolation rapine and Death. No Horses or Carriages, No busses or Street Cars, but Death and Destruction every whare.

I then went to the Grand Central Park and looking back I saw a fire Start and just at that moment a mighty East wind sprang up and Carried the flames west over the City, and it burned untill there was not a single building left Standing whole Even down to the wharfs. And the shipping all seemd to be burned and swallowed up in the Common destruction and left Nothing but a Desolation whare the great City was a short time before. The Stench from the bodies that were burning was so great that it Carried a great distance across the Hudson River and bay, and thus spread disease and death wharever the flames penetrated. I Cannot paint in words the Horror that seemed to Encompass me around. It was beyond description or thought of man to Conceive.

I supposed this was the End but I was here given to understand, that the same horror was being enacted all over the Country, North South East and West, that few were left alive. Still there were some.

Immediately after I seemed to be standing on the west bank of the Missouri River opposite the City of Independence but I saw no City. I saw the whole States of Missouri & Illinois and part of Iowa were a Complete wilderness with no living human being in them. I then saw a short distance from the river Twelve men dressed in the robes of the Temple Standing in a square or nearly so. I understood it represented the Twelve gates of the New Jerusalem, and they were with hands uplifted Consecrating the ground and laying the Corner Stones. I saw myriads of Angels hovering over them and around about them and also an immens pillar of a Cloud over them and I heard the singing of the most beautif[ul] music the words 'Now is established the Kingdom of our God and His Christ, and He shall reign forever and Ever, and the Kingdom shall never the Thrown down for the Saints have overcome.' And I saw people Coming from the River and different places along way off to help build the Temple, and it seemed that the Hosts of the angels also helped to get the material to build the Temple. And I saw some Come who wore their Temple...robs to help build the Temple and the City and all the time I saw the great pillar of Cloud hovering over the place.

Instantly I found I was in the Tabernacle at Ogden yet I Could see the building going on and got quite animated in Calling to the people in the Tabernacle to listen to the beautiful music that the Angels were Making. I Called to them to look at the Angels as the House seemed to be full of them and they were saying the same words that I heard Before 'Now is the Kingdom of our God Esstablished forever & Ever.' And then a voice said 'Now shall Come to pass that which was spoken by Isaiah the Prophet 'that seven women shall take hold of one man, saying &c (Isaiah 4:1). ['And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by they name, to take away our reproach.']

At this time I seemed to Stagger back from the pulpit & F D Richards and some one els Caught me and prevented me from falling when I requested Brother Richards to apologize to the audience for me because I stoped so adruptly and tell them I had not feinted but was exhausted. I rolled over in my bed and heard the City Hall Clock Strike Twelve.

http://mysite.verizon.net/pulsar/Librar ... ction.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.latterdayconservative.com/ar ... ys-vision/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's some other sources:

And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the history of our nation; pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked of this generation from off the face of the land, to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel from the north country. The people of the Lord, those who have complied with the requirements of the new covenant, have already commenced gathering together to Zion, which is in the state of Missouri; therefore I declare unto you the warning which the Lord has commanded to declare unto this generation, remembering that the eyes of my Maker are upon me, and that to him I am accountable for every word I say, wishing nothing worse to my fellow-men than their eternal salvation; therefore, "Fear God, and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come." Repent ye, repent ye, and embrace the everlasting covenant, and flee to Zion, before the overflowing scourge overtake you, for there are those now living upon the earth whose eyes shall not be closed in death until they see all these things, which I have spoken, fulfilled. Remember these things; call upon the Lord while He is near, and seek Him while He may be found, is the exhortation of your unworthy servant.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/P ... swept_away" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wilford Woodruff -

You will say: That was in the days when Presidents Benson and Maughan presided over us; that was before New York was destroyed by an earthquake; it was before Boston was swept into the sea, by the sea heaving itself beyond its bounds; it was before Albany was destroyed by fire; yea, at that time you will remember the scenes of this day. Treasure them up and forget them not.”

http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/GenlAuthor ... any_WW.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Orson Pratt -

This great war is only a small degree of chastisement, just the beginning; nothing compared to that which God has spoken concerning this nation, if they will not repent. For the Lord has said in this book, (the Book of Mormon) which has been published for thirty eight years, that if they will not repent He will throw down all their strongholds and cut off the cities of the land, and will execute vengeance and fury on the nation, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard. That He will send a desolating scourge on the land; that He will leave their cities desolate, without inhabitants. For instance the great, powerful and populous city of New York, that may be considered one of the greatest cities of the world, will in a few years become a mass of ruins. The people will wonder while gazing on the ruins that cost hundreds of millions to build, what has become of its inhabitants. Their houses will be there, but they will be left desolate. So saith the Lord God. That will be only a sample of numerous other towns and cities on the face of this continent.

http://jod.mrm.org/12/338" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://books.google.com/books?id=3Rc47F ... rk&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Patriarch Charles D. Evans -

Charles D. Evans was a church patriarch, in the 1890's, while living in Springville, Utah.

While I lay pondering in deep solitude on the events of the present, my mind was drawn into a reverie such as I had never felt before,--a strong solicitude for my imperiled country utterly excluded every other thought, and raised my feelings to a point of intensity which I did not think it possible to endure.

While in this solemn, profound, and painful reverie of mind, to my infinite surprise, a light appeared in my room, which seemed to be soft and silvery as that diffused from a northern star. At the moment of its appearance, the acute feeling I had experienced instantly yielded to one of calm tranquility.

Although it may have been at the hour of midnight, and the side of the globe whereon I was situated, was excluded from the sunlight, yet all was light and bright and warm as an Italian landscape at noon, but the heat was softer or more subdued.

As I gazed upward, I saw descending through my bedroom roof, with a gently gliding movement, a personage clothed in white apparel, whose countenance was smoothly serene, his features regular, and the flashes of his eye seemed to shoot forth scintillations, to use an earthly comparison, strongly resembling those reflected from a diamond under an intensely illumined electric light, which dazzled but did not bewilder.

Those large, deep, inscrutable eyes were presently fixed upon mine, when instantly placing his hands up on my forehead his touch produced an indescribable serenity and calmness, a calmness not born of earth, but at once peaceful, delightful and heavenly. My whole being was imbued with a joy unspeakable. All feelings of sorrow instantly vanished. Those lines and shadows which care and sorrow impress upon us were dispelled as a deep fog before a blazing sun.

In the eyes of my heavenly visitor, for such he appeared to me, there was a sort of lofty pity and tenderness, infinitely stronger than any such feeling I ever saw manifested in ordinary mortals. His very calm appeared like a vast ocean stillness, at once overpowering to every agitated emotion.

By some intuition, or instinct, I felt he had something to communicate to sooth my sorrows and allay my apprehensions. Thereupon addressing me, he said:

"Son, I perceive thou hast grave anxieties over the perilous state of thy country, that thy soul has felt deep sorrow for its future. I have therefore come to thy relief and to tell thee of the causes that have led to this peril. Hear me attentively.

"Seventy-one years ago [1823], after an awful apostasy of centuries, in which all nations were enshrouded in spiritual darkness, when the angels had withdrawn themselves, the voice of prophets hushed, and the light of Urim and Thummim shown not, and the vision of the seers closed, while heaven itself shed not a ray of gladness to lighten a dark world, when Babel ruled and Satan laughed, and Church and Priesthood had taken their upward flight, and the voice of nations, possessing the books of the Jewish prophets, had ruled against vision and against Urim, against the further visits of angels, and against the doctrine of a church of apostles and prophets, thou knowest that then appeared a mighty angel with the solemn announcement of the hour of judgment, the burden of whose instructions pointed to dire calamities upon the present generation. This, therefore, is the cause of what thou seest and the end of the wicked hasteneth."

My vision now became extended in a marvelous manner, and the import of the past labors of the Elders was made plain to me. I saw multitudes fleeing to the place of safety in our mountain heights. The church was established in the wilderness. Simultaneously the nation had reached an unparalleled prosperity, wealth abounded, new territory was acquired, commerce extended, finance strengthened, confidence was maintained, and peoples abroad pointed to her as the model nation--the ideal of the past realized and perfected--the embodiment of the liberty sung by poets and sought for by sages.

"But," continued the Messenger, "thou beholdest a change. Confidence is lost, wealth is arrayed against labor, labor against wealth, yet the land abounds with plenty of food and raiment, and silver and gold are in abundance. Thou seest also the letters written by a Jew have wrought great confusion in the finances of the nation which, together with the policy of many wealthy ones, has produced distress and do produce further sorrow."

Factions now sprang up as if by magic; capital had entrenched itself against labor throughout the land; labor was organized against capital. The voice of the wise sought to tranquilize these two powerful factors in vain. Excited multitudes ran wildly about; strikes increased; lawlessness sought the place of regular government.

At this juncture I saw a banner floating in air whereupon was written the words, "BANKRUPTCY, FAMINE, FLOODS, FIRE, CYCLONES, BLOOD, PLAGUE." Mad with rage, men and women rushed upon each other. Blood flowed down the streets of cities like water. The demon of bloody hate had enthroned itself on the citadel of reason; the thirst for blood was more intense than that of the parched tongue for water. Thousands of bodies lay untombed in the streets. Men and women fell dead from the terror inspired by fear. Rest was but the precursor of the bloody work of the morrow. All around lay the mournfulness of a past in ruins. Monuments erected to perpetuate the names of the noble and brave were ruthlessly destroyed by combustibles.

A voice now sounded aloud these words, "Yet once again I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word yet once again signifies the removing of things that are shaken, as of things that are made; that those things that cannot be shaken may remain."

Earthquakes rent the earth in vast chasms, which engulfed multitudes; terrible groanings and wailings filled the air; the shrieks of the suffering were indescribably awful. Water wildly rushed in from the tumultuous ocean, whose very roaring under the mad rage of the fierce cyclone, was unendurable to the ear. Cities were swept away in an instant, missiles were hurled through the atmosphere at a terrible velocity, and people were carried upward only to descend an unrecognizable mass. Islands appeared where ocean waves once tossed the gigantic steamer. In other parts, voluminous flames emanating from vast fires, rolled with fearful velocity, destroying life and property in their destructive course.

The seal of the dread menace of despair was stamped on every human visage; men fell exhausted, appalled and trembling. Every element of agitated nature seemed a demon of wrathful fury. Dense clouds, blacker than midnight darkness, whose thunders reverberated with intonations which shook the earth, obscured the sunlight. Darkness reigned unrivaled and supreme.

Again the light shone, revealing an atmosphere tinged with a leaden hue, which was the precursor of an unparalleled plague, whose first symptoms were recognized by a purple spot which appeared on the cheek or on the back of the hand, and which, invariably, enlarged until it spread over the entire surface of the body, producing certain death. Mothers, on sight of it, cast away their children as if they were poisonous reptiles. This plague, in grown persons, rotted the eyes in their sockets and consumed the tongue as would a powerful acid or an intense heat. Wicked men, suffering under its writhing agonies, cursed God and died, as they stood on their feet, and the birds of prey feasted on their carcasses.

I saw in my dream the Messenger again appear with a vial in his right hand, who addressing me, said: "Thou knowest somewhat of the chemistry taught in the schools of human learning, behold now a chemical sufficiently powerful to change the waters of the sea."

He then poured out his vial upon the sea and it became putrid as the blood of a dead man, and every living soul therein died. Other plagues followed which I forbear to record.

A foreign power had inroaded the nation, which, from every human indication, it appeared would seize the government and supplant it with monarchy. I stood trembling at the aspect, when, lo, a power arose in the west which declared itself in favor of the Constitution in its original form; to this suddenly rising power, every lover of constitutional rights and liberties throughout the nation gave hearty support. The struggle was fiercely contested, but the Stars and Stripes floated in the breeze, and bidding defiance to all opposition, waved proudly over the land.

Among the many banners I saw, was one inscribed thus: "The government based on the Constitution, now and forever"; on another, "Liberty of Conscience, Social, Religious, and Political."

The light of the Gospel which had but dimly shone because of abomination, now burst forth with a lustre that filled the earth. Cities appeared in every direction, one of which, in the center of the continent, was an embodiment of architectural science after the pattern of eternal perfections, whose towers glittered with a radiance emanating from the sparkling of emeralds, rubies, diamonds, and other precious stones set in a canopy of gold, and so elaborately and skillfully arranged as to shed forth a brilliancy which dazzled and enchanted the eye, excited admiration and developed a taste for the beautiful, beyond anything man had ever conceived.

Fountains of crystal water shot upwards their transparent jets, which, in the brilliant sunshine, formed ten thousand rainbow tints at once delightful to the eye. Gardens, the perfection of whose arrangement confound all our present attempts at genius, were bedecked with flowers of varied hue to develop and refine the taste and strengthen a love for these nature's chastest adornments.

Schools and universities were erected, to which all had access; in the latter, Urims were placed for the study of the past, present, and future, and for obtaining a knowledge of the heavenly bodies, and of the construction of worlds and universes. The inherent properties of matter, its arrangements, laws, and mutual relations were revealed and taught and made plain as the primer lesson of a child. The conflicting theories of geologists regarding the foundation and age of the earth were settled forever. All learning was based on eternal certainty. Angels brought forth the treasures of knowledge which had laid hid in the womb of the dumb and distant past.

The appliances for making learning easy surpass all conjecture. Chemistry was rendered extremely simple, by the power which the Urims conferred on man of looking into and through the very elements of every kind; a stone furnished no more obstruction to human vision than the air itself. Not only were the elements and all their changes and transformations plainly understood, but the construction, operations and laws of mind were thus rendered equally plain as those which governed the coarser elements.

While looking through the Urim and Thummim, I was amazed at a transformation, which even now is to me marvelous beyond description, clearly showing the manner in which particles composing the inorganic kingdom of nature are conducted upward to become a part of organic forms; another astounding revelation was a view clearly shown me of the entire circulation of the blood, both in man and animals.

After seeing these things and gazing once more upon the beautiful city, the following passage of scripture sounded in my ears: "OUT OF ZION, THE PERFECTION OF BEAUTY, GOD SHINETH."

On this I awoke to find all a dream. I have written the foregoing, which is founded on true principle, under the caption of a dream, partly to instruct and partly to check the folly of reading silly novels now so prevalent.

CHARLES D. EVANS

Springville, Utah

http://www.reliefmine.com/component/con ... ees-future" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bold and Underline mine

also printed in The Contributor, Vol. 15, No. 10 August, 1894, pp. 638-641

And there shall be weeping and wailing among the hosts of men;

And there shall be a great hailstorm sent forth to destroy the crops of the earth.

And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

Wherefore, I the Lord God will send forth flies upon the face of the earth, which shall take hold of the inhabitants thereof, and shall eat their flesh, and shall cause maggots to come in upon them;

And their tongues shall be stayed that they shall not utter against me; and their flesh shall fall from off their bones, and their eyes from their sockets;

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/29?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

But my disciples shall stand in holy places, and shall not be moved; but among the wicked, men shall lift up their voices and curse God and die.

And there shall be earthquakes also in divers places, and many desolations; yet men will harden their hearts against me, and they will take up the sword, one against another, and they will kill one another.

And now, when I the Lord had spoken these words unto my disciples, they were troubled.

And I said unto them: Be not troubled, for, when all these things shall come to pass, ye may know that the promises which have been made unto you shall be fulfilled.

And when the alight shall begin to break forth, it shall be with them like unto a parable which I will show you—

Ye look and behold the fig trees, and ye see them with your eyes, and ye say when they begin to shoot forth, and their leaves are yet tender, that summer is now nigh at hand;

Even so it shall be in that day when they shall see all these things, then shall they know that the hour is nigh.

And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man.

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/45?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
bold mine

And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/87?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why is the country going down?

How are you proposing to save the Constitution but not the country (bold and underlined in your comment)?

And how does that differ from what you accuse others of (2nd and 3rd bold and underline statements)?

Just trying to make sense of your statement....

[Mark]

So much for spending more of your time elsewhere Jason.. )

[BroJones]

Thanks for organizing these quotes and vids, Jason. Very helpful to see the words of those we (LDS) have sustained as Prophets, Seers and Revelators.

About 2012, you indicated what you thought will happen. Reluctantly, but in view of the world events we are seeing and the growth of the power and greed/money of the whore Babylon -- I feel inclined to agree with you.

The handwriting (of the Lord) is on the wall, one must admit.

[Jason]

So much for spending more of your time elsewhere Jason.. )

Have to keep the resident clown laughing....

[Jason]

Thanks for organizing these quotes and vids, Jason. Very helpful to see the words of those we (LDS) have sustained as Prophets, Seers and Revelators.

About 2012, you indicated what you thought will happen. Reluctantly, but in view of the world events we are seeing and the growth of the power and greed/money of the whore Babylon -- I feel inclined to agree with you.

The handwriting (of the Lord) is on the wall, one must admit.

Thank you!

We are so close to martial law (king on the land)....and I personally believe at soon as that comes to full implementation....all heck will break loose...then we'll have about 3 to 3 1/2 years (as tribes under full judgement of God) to prepare for the arrival of the Savior (build Zion - the kingdom)....and lean toward Cleon Skousen nailing it with the political/judicial structure for the kingdom.

[mes5464]

Thank you Jason for compiling all of this for us. I am copying this.

[Jason]

Thank you Jason for compiling all of this for us. I am copying this.

Your welcome! Glad to be of service!

[Mark]

So much for spending more of your time elsewhere Jason.. )

Have to keep the resident clown laughing....

Just teasin on you bro. You must not have had any obnoxious older brothers as a child. :ymdevil:

[Jason]

So much for spending more of your time elsewhere Jason.. )

Have to keep the resident clown laughing....

Just teasin on you bro. You must not have had any obnoxious older brothers as a child. :ymdevil:

LOL...I was the oldest!

[Mark]

LOL...I was the oldest!

I knew it! Just think of me as your surrogate older brother. I think its about time for you to experience a major wedgie you little shrimp. :ymdevil:

[Jason]

LOL...I was the oldest!

I knew it! Just think of me as your surrogate older brother. I think its about time for you to experience a major wedgie you little shrimp. :ymdevil:

LOL....just remember that what goes around comes around! Of course my younger brothers are saying - About Time!!!

[SempiternalHarbinger]

Well done Jason! In a way I feel like some of the information you have posted and others has shown me that the Lord is fulfilling his promises in these last days.... that He would bring to light all their secrets and abominations,unto every nation that shall here after possess the land (Alma 37:25) Thanks for the time you have put into these important matters. They do not go unnoticed! All you really did is call a spade a spade. BlueMoon5 must have taken some boxing classes in his lifetime because he uses a good boxing technique.... bobbin and weaving. I said Bluemoon believed in communist principals, and you said he believed in satanic principals, Many prophets including David O McKay said they are one and the same. I was just trying to play nice. Weather good intentions or not, more or less than this cometh evil. Me thinks that Karl Marx would enjoy BlueMoon5 company. "The position of this Church on the subject of Communism has never changed We consider it the greatest satanical threat to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God’s work among men that exists on the face of the earth." (Era, June 1966, p. 477; CR 4/66:109)

The question Josiah Quincy wanted to know from Joseph Smith was how he did it. How was he able to be such a great governor over so many people... Joseph Smith simply stated, "I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves." Bluemoon5 has shown to not have a great deal of understanding when it come to the principal of Stewardship. Weather it be stewardship within the church, or stewardship of nations. A correct principal is we have no damn business telling other countries how to do business. If we don't approve how a nation is doing business, it's none of our business and the Lord has said they will be judged accordingly. J Reuben Clark pointed pointed this out many times. We would go into a country and replace one "evil leader" with a more evil leader. Do we Americans know what's best for other countries than the people themselves? What right it is it of ours to tell the people of Mexico, Iraq, Afganistan, Iran, that we know better than them? That we know what's best for them. They are to stupid to know what's best. We need to clean out our own closets before we go cleaning others. It is none of my business telling Jason how I he should raise his kids. He will be judged accordingly. Same thing as nations. Correct Principals.

It wasn’t very long before J. Reuben Clark had written some of the most notable synopses or background or briefs on various problems that came up. That was a period, you know, when we had the revolution in Mexico. We had American citizens down there: do we have a right to invade that country to protect the rights of our citizens? He wrote the brief that justified it.

So, in the State Department he was becoming a very strong voice for principles. He always justified it with good research, etc. Now he got behind two or three policies that he later repented on. Dollar diplomacy was one of them. Interventionism turned out to be another. He eventually took the position that while we are entitled to go and protect our citizens, we have no business doing what we did in Mexico, where we didn’t like the President. We had manipulated and maneuvered diplomatically and otherwise, and got him kicked out, and put our man in, and he was ten times worse.

J. Reuben Clark used to say, “Don’t try to go in and solve the problems of other countries. You don’t have the right, and you won’t do it as well as they do. Most of the time you’ll make a mess of it. We did in Mexico. I was responsible for it.” That is, he thought, “You know, we got to straight the Mexicans out. We got to give them a good President.”

During the critical time when the representatives of the colonies were trying to frame the Constitution in that Old State Hall, Benjamin Franklin, the oldest man present, arose and stated his faith in an overruling Providence and in the power of prayer, and then said:

"I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: That God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?

We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings, that “Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel. . . .

i was due here two weeks ago, and had a theme to deliver which i thought was timely and appropriate, but i come with another theme this morning— Two Contending Forces. Those forces are known and have been designated by different terms throughout the ages. In the beginning they were known as Satan on the one hand, and Christ on the other�In these days, they are called ‘domination by the state’ on the one hand, ‘personal liberty’ on the other; communism on the one hand, free agency on the other.

(McKay, Speeches of the Year, “Two Contending Forces,” B.Y.U., May 18, 1960)

The position of this Church on the subject of Communism has never changed. We consider it the greatest Satanical threat to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God’s work among men that exists on the face of the earth. In this connection, we are continually being asked to give our opinion concerning various patriotic groups or individuals who are fighting Communism and speaking up for freedom. Our immediate concern, however, is not with parties, groups, or persons, but with principles. We therefore commend and encourage every person and every group who are sincerely seeking to study Constitutional principles and awaken a sleeping and apathetic people to the alarming conditions that are rapidly advancing about us. We wish all of our citizens throughout the land were participating in some type of organized self-education in order that they could better appreciate what is happening and know what they can do about it. . . . No member of this Church can be true to his faith, nor can any American be loyal to his trust, while lending aid, encouragement or sympathy to any of these false philosophies, for if he does they will prove snares to his feet.

David O. McKay, President of the Church, in Conference Report, April 1966, pp. 109–110:

Today, freedom – political, economic, and individual freedom – lies destroyed or is in the course of being destroyed over great areas of the globe. And it has been destroyed and is being destroyed in the name of freedom.... A ruthless dialectical battle is being waged against the Christian way of life, against political liberty, against individual freedom, and it is being waged in the name of Freedom. Black becomes White; Tyranny becomes Freedom; The Forced Labor Camp stands for Liberty; The Slave State is represented as Democracy. This is the deadly challenge of Communism.

David O. McKay

"Men today are rapidly classifying themselves into two groups: believers and nonbelievers. J. Edgar Hoover, and I quote, says: “There is no place here in America for part-time patriots. This nation is face to face with the greatest danger ever to confront it, a sinister and deadly conspiracy which can be conquered only by an alert, informed citizenry. It is indeed appalling that some members of our society continue to deplore and criticize those who stress the communist danger. Public indifference to this threat is tantamount to national suicide. Lethargy leads only to disaster. Knowledge of the enemy, alertness to the danger, everyday patriotism are the brick and mortar with which we can build an impregnable fortress against communism.”

David O McKay

Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.

Joseph Fielding Smith, in Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159:

On the fly-leaf of the book, The Naked Communist, by W. Cleon Skousen, we find this quotation, (and I admonish everybody to read that excellent book of Chief Skousen’s): “The conflict between communism and freedom is the problem of our time. It overshadows all other problems. This conflict mirrors our age, its toils, its tensions, its troubles, and its tasks. On the outcome of this conflict depends the future of mankind.”

David O. McKay, President of the Church, in Conference Report, October 1959, pp. 4–9:

By reason of his office and calling, Elder Benson is entitled to inspiration when addressing Church groups, and, since Communism is a definite threat to the eternal principles of free agency, it cannot be considered that he is “out-of-line” when discussing it in talks.

Letter from David O. McKay’s Office, signed April 12, 1969:

I am sorry to see this murderous influence prevailing throughout the world, and perhaps this may be a fitting occasion to refer to some of these matters. The manifestations of turbulence and uneasiness which prevail among the nations of the earth are truly lamentable�These feelings which tend to do away with all right, rule, and government, and correct principles are not from God�This feeling of communism and nihilism, aimed at the overthrow of rulers and men in position and authority, arises from a spirit of diabolism, which is contrary to every principle of the Gospel�
These things are beginning to spread among and permeate the nations of the earth. Do we expect them? Yes. These secret combinations were spoken of by Joseph Smith, years and years ago. I have heard him time and time again tell about them, and he stated that when these things began to take place the liberties of this nation would begin to be bartered away.

(JD 22:142-3)President John Taylor said:

It is most unthinkable that any people would knowingly and willfully take on themselves the yoke of communist oppression� As a people who have known only liberty, we are inclined to feel, it cannot happen here. We have become lulled away into a false security�I say to you it can happen here. It is happening here. We have retreated from the Monroe Doctrine. Our liberty is in danger. But we go blithely and gullibly on our way. Some of us fall for the Kremlin line as planned by the mass murderer, Kruschev and call patriots ‘extremists ‘and accuse courageous liberty-loving citizens of ‘dividing our people.’ We must be vigilant. Let us unite. Let us join in our fight against the forces of anti-Christ. (Ezra Taft Benson, CR, Oct. 1962, p.17)

President Mckay’s Counsel To Educators

The late President David O. McKay’s views on socialism and welfare-statism were expressed in a letter dated May 25, 1967, written to Ernest L. Wilkinson, President of Brigham Young University. This letter, which gave instructions regarding what should and should not be taught regarding these matters, was regarded of sufficient importance that the entire Board of Trustees unanimously approved it as the policy of the Board of Trustees for the guidance of the Board, the University Administration, and present and prospective members of the faculty. Copies of the letter have been sent out to faculty members each year for the past several years along with their teaching appointments. In this letter, President McKay first called attention to
recent disturbing events in our country—such as an alarming increase in nearly all categories of crime, divorce, juvenile and adult delinquency, riots at colleges, strikes of school teachers, civil disorders which go far beyond peaceable assemblies, ‘ the resurrection of a pagan philosophy that God is dead, demoralizing movies, television programs which encourage lewd and lascivious conduct. Then he traced these evils—in part at least—to the welfare-state:

i cannot help but think that there is a direct relationship between the present evil trends which i have above indicated, and the very marked tendency of the people of our country to pass on to the state the responsibility for their moral and economic welfare. This trend to a welfare state in which people look to and worship government more than their God, is certain to sap the individual ambitions and moral fiber of our youth unless they are warned and rewarned of the consequences. History, of course, is replete with the downfall of nations who, instead of assuming their own responsibility for their religious and economic welfare, mistakenly attempted to shift their individual responsibilities to the government.

After having condemned the welfare-state in those terms, he went on to connect its doctrines with the socialistic state and to warn faculty members to avoid advocating either:

i am aware that a university has the responsibility of acquainting its students with the theories and doctrines which are prevalent in various disciplines, but i hope that no one on the faculty of Brigham Young University will advocate positions which cannot be harmonized with the views of every prophet of the Church, from the Prophet Joseph Smith on down, concerning our belief that we should be strong and self-reliant individuals, not dependent upon the largess of government. None of the doctrines of our Church give any sanction to the concept of a socialistic state.

[AussieOi]

Wow Aussie, I feel your hate. That hate, however, is not reciprocated.


Believer

[Jason]

During the critical time when the representatives of the colonies were trying to frame the Constitution in that Old State Hall, Benjamin Franklin, the oldest man present, arose and stated his faith in an overruling Providence and in the power of prayer, and then said:

"I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: That God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?

We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings, that “Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel. . . .

Well said!!!

[Lockey]

True, there have been some who governed our Country at different times who did wicked things. Obama is a great example of this. But you cannot pin the hearts and souls of every American from the rise of this country to the present day on the acts of those who acted wickedly. That is contrary to the fact that we are not accountable for Adams transgressions. Thank God for the laws that govern true justice and mercy, in short thank GOD for GOD who is the only true judge. In respect to the Obama example I gave, I for one didn't vote for Obama. On a personal level, I don't want to be held spiritually accountable for the acts of evil people who do evil things that I have absolutely no control over i.e. who I did not vote for or support.

In all dispositions of time you can see good and evil living side by side, in the same countries, communities or neighborhoods. That would probably best describe much of the world at any given time. So to take ONLY the examples of the wicked acts among our nations past/present would be to discount every act of bravery, courage, sacrifice and faith that was also given. To imply that we are all wicked is to imply that there is no such thing as good and evil. It would imply that hope, faith or charity no longer exist. To further imply that America, ALL of us are responsible for such atrocities on the highest level that you imply is wrong. Take slavery for example. Half of the country disagareed with the idea of slavery, along with President Abraham Lincoln. A whole lot of people died along side our beloved President, to right this wrong. To purge our country from this sin. Was there sacrifice in vain? In every moment of our nations history, of any nations history you can find examples of both right and wrong, good and bad etc.. Welcome to life! In my opinion this does not mean were all going to hell. It does however mean that the war in heaven is very much alive and well here on earth! The great divide is very real!Condemning everyone to hell is not a good strategy in any war...

[Vision]

Wow Aussie, I feel your hate. That hate, however, is not reciprocated.


Believer

Aussie is not hateful, he is pointing out the facts. Believer detach yourself from the narratives programmed into you and face the facts.

[Vision]

Do I believe our country's foundational documents were divinely inspired? Yes,

So the God of the 1700's inspired men to write the foundational documents but turned his head when those same inspired men captured,sold,traded, whipped, beat,raped and trafficked in slaves, and raped, pillaged and plundered native americans?

[Lockey]

For starters, Aussie needs to understand that not all of our founding fathers were white skinned. The Iroquois Confederacy of Nations founded the 1st draft of our US Constitution. Look it up yourself in the Library of Congress. I looked into this myself and was amazed at how truth tells a much different story. In 1988 Congress passed a resolution entitled, "H. Con. Res. 331" where by the US Government clarifies that the 1st draft of the US Constitution was indeed originally written by "The Iroquois Confederacy of Nations." and was so admired by some of our founding fathers who asked the "Iroquois Confederacy of Nations" if they could use it as their own Constitution. See: http://fnx.org/blog/iroquois-confederac ... nstitution" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not all of our founding fathers were evil, raping nucklehead's! Not all of them had white skin, wealth, slaves and unlimited power as you suggest. Some of them certainly did and those individuals will be held accountable in the next life. But to focus solely on their evil acts alone can serve as a big distraction from the deep abiding truth and good that also existed at that time in other's.Their sacrifices and contributions have not gone unnoticed by God, who is the only true judge on what really transpired during that very turbulent time of our nations birth. Like I said, good and evil lived side by side back then, as it does now. Where you find the darkest, most evil acts of mankind you will also find the greatest humanity and courage within Gods children.Its funny how Satan seems to put his best on the front lines side by side with Gods best.

If you'd like to see an exact copy of this resolution enacted by Congress "H. Con. Res. 331" you can find it at this government web link: http://www.senate.gov/reference/resourc ... res331.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jason]

True, there have been some who governed our Country at different times who did wicked things. Obama is a great example of this. But you cannot pin the hearts and souls of every American from the rise of this country to the present day on the acts of those who acted wickedly. That is contrary to the fact that we are not accountable for Adams transgressions. Thank God for the laws that govern true justice and mercy, in short thank GOD for GOD who is the only true judge. In respect to the Obama example I gave, I for one didn't vote for Obama. On a personal level, I don't want to be held spiritually accountable for the acts of evil people who do evil things that I have absolutely no control over i.e. who I did not vote for or support.

In all dispositions of time you can see good and evil living side by side, in the same countries, communities or neighborhoods. That would probably best describe much of the world at any given time. So to take ONLY the examples of the wicked acts among our nations past/present would be to discount every act of bravery, courage, sacrifice and faith that was also given. To imply that we are all wicked is to imply that there is no such thing as good and evil. It would imply that hope, faith or charity no longer exist. To further imply that America, ALL of us are responsible for such atrocities on the highest level that you imply is wrong. Take slavery for example. Half of the country disagareed with the idea of slavery, along with President Abraham Lincoln. A whole lot of people died along side our beloved President, to right this wrong. To purge our country from this sin. Was there sacrifice in vain? In every moment of our nations history, of any nations history you can find examples of both right and wrong, good and bad etc.. Welcome to life! In my opinion this does not mean were all going to hell. It does however mean that the war in heaven is very much alive and well here on earth! The great divide is very real!Condemning everyone to hell is not a good strategy in any war...

No...one certainly can't pin this on every single American. That said its dictated by majority vote. When the salt runs out of the hour glass then the destruction rolls in. We'll be judged at the bar on our individual stances. That said my understanding of this earthly existence....we are tied together for better or worse.

Even a minority can dramatically effect the outcome and/or well being of society as a whole as you note in the Civil War. My previous rants on this thread are not so much intended as God's judgment at the bar as it is the consequences upon society as a whole (all of us) as a result of violating principles of God. Or in other words we will see direct results and impact upon our earthly lives as a result of the decisions by wicked folks and the general ignorance of the masses to those secret combinations.

For example as a society we can handle the economic consequences of locking up 1% of our population who are unwilling to abide by the laws designed to help us coexist in peace....and task another .25% to oversee them. But when you start locking up 5% or 10% with another 2.5-5% tasked with oversight...in other words moving from a production role to a non-production role...all heck breaks loose economically which impacts every single citizen of that society in one aspect or another (whether deserving or undeserving). There is a cost to wickedness that is borne by all in this physical life. Hopefully folks repent but repentance doesn't always alleviate the consequences of past actions.

an FYI for the analogy - we are currently running about 321 million people
http://www.census.gov/popclock/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2011 – about 0.94% of adults in the U.S. resident population.[7] Additionally, 4,814,200 adults at year-end 2011 were on probation or on parole.[11] In total, 6,977,700 adults were under correctional supervision (probation, parole, jail, or prison) in 2011 – about 2.9% of adults in the U.S. resident population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcera ... ted_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Graph showing the number of people (per 100,000 national population at that time) that is confined in state, local and federal correctional facilities from 1925 to the present
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/overtime.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another little interesting tidbit

Transgender adults and LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender) youth are disproportionately more likely than the general population to come into contact with the criminal justice system. According to the National Center for Transgender Equality, 16 percent of transgender adults have been in prison and/or jail, compared to 2.7 percent of all adults.[91] It has also been found that 13-15 percent of youth in detention identify as LGBT, whereas only an estimated 4-8 percent of the general youth population identify as such.[92]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcera ... ted_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another tidbit

Offenses - Statistics based on prior month's data -- -- Last Updated: Saturday, 27 June 2015
http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/sta ... fenses.jsp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And another

Between 1984 and 2005, the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation (CDCR) opened 21 new prisons to house a growing prison population. At the end of 2005, CDCR operated 33 prisons with a statewide design capacity of more than 80,000 beds. Prison population growth continued to outpace capacity, leading to a 2009 federal court order to reduce overcrowding in state facilities. To meet the court’s mandated population target without building new prisons, the legislature passed reforms designed to shift responsibility for certain offenders from the state to counties. In this new environment, the state’s corrections infrastructure spending is financing construction of county jails, plus medical, mental health, and ancillary facilities for CDCR. California is also paying outside public and private entities to house inmates in facilities in and out of state.
http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=1142" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

U.S. PRISON POPULATION TRENDS
http://sentencingproject.org/doc/public ... nds_fs.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The federal prison population has grown by 750 percent since 1980, resulting in rapidly increasing expenditures for incarceration and dangerous overcrowding. In response, Congress created the Charles Colson Task Force on Federal Corrections to examine trends in correctional growth and develop practical, data-driven policy responses.
http://www.urban.org/research/publicati ... population" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Between 1980 and 2013, the federal imprisonment rate increased 518 percent, from 11 inmates for every 100,000 U.S. residents to 68.1 During the same period, annual spending on the federal prison system rose 595 percent, from $970 million to more than $6.7 billion in inflation-adjusted dollars.2 Prison expenditures grew from 14 percent of the Justice Department’s total outlays to 23 percent, increasingly competing for resources with law enforcement and national security programs.
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-an ... eds-states" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An estimated 6,899,000 persons were under the supervision of adult correctional systems at yearend 2013, down from 6,940,500 at
yearend 2012 (figure 1). The decrease of 41,500 offenders in 2013 resulted in the number of persons under correctional supervision falling below 6.9 million for the first time since 2003. About 1 in 51 adults was on probation or parole at yearend 2013, compared to 1 in 110 adults incarcerated in prison or local jail
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpus13.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Growth of Incarceration in the United States
http://www.nap.edu/download.php?record_id=18613" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

State Imprisonment Rates by Year
http://www.cbpp.org/blog/the-rise-in-st ... opulations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prisoners in 2013
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p13.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The number of prisoners age 50 or older experienced a 330 percent increase from 1994 to 2011. The authors find that the proportion of these older prisoners is expected to have an even steeper growth curve in the near future and they may consume a disproportionately large amount of the federal prison budget.
http://www.urban.org/research/publicati ... son-system" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

World Prison Population List
http://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/defa ... ppl_10.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Silver]

Wow. I recently joined. This thread makes me glad I did. Some powerful witnesses here. The prophets have warned us and the saints, in general, ignored the warnings. Now we will reap the whirlwind.

[minorityofone]

I heard of a nation once that actually enslaved people because they looked different, they would actually kidnap these people from their families without any care of separating them from loved ones, and sell them like animals. This nation didn't allow women to vote, many thought raping women whose skin was a different color wasn't really rape at all, they treated many immigrants as trash and drove the native inhabitants from their lands and thought themselves the possessors of light and knowledge that made them better than all of the other people they called savages (pretty much the Freemason mentality) and somehow history turned these people into heroes. I know it sounds ridiculous but people actually believe this! Fortunately that country has repented to a great degree and has moved significantly towards equality in civil rights. Women can actually vote and they are even moving towards paying women an equal rate to men in the work force if you can believe it.
Any sin the U.S. is doing now is progress compared to other cultures of history. Instead of aborting babies Romans used to "discard" them after birth without a thought. All of the debauchery, rape, pornographic material, abuse of children, and any other conceivable sin has not been done to a greater degree here than it has been done in the past, and the U.S. has shown only progress since it's birth. Abortion was practiced heavily by the LDS saints when they were trying to hide polygamous pregnancies. Battles used to occur because of a difference in belief. We hear of tales of the mountain meadows massacre, multiple assassinations, justification and legalization of adultery in the form of so called divine command. These same people created a creed that people with different skin color were inferior and cursed, which still leaves a taint of racism justified by false doctrine. Anyway at least we have seen some progress made.

[Silver]

The Most brutal empire in history?


8. Use of Weapons of Mass Destruction: How ironic that the world's policeman for weapons of mass destruction is the only one to use them on a mass scale. The United States is on record using chemical, biological and even nuclear weapons. From the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII, to Monsanto's Agent Orange in Vietnam, to the depleted uranium used in Afghanistan and Iraq, America only condemns itself when speaking about the evils of WMDs. However, killers don't appear to care how the killing is accomplished, so long as it achieves their goals. The real firecrackers will likely be brought out in a confrontation with Iran, or if China and Russia are lured into the conflict. It won't really matter much what history says if the use of WMD escalates by either side, but the aggressors should rightly be blamed for the ensuing scorched earth, while the defenders against killers and thieves should be viewed as righteous.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the War and saved at least a million lives. Why was Nagasaki needed after Hiroshima. Because the fanatical leaders of japan were not going to give up no matter what. It took two!

The rebuttal in red above is one of those lies that has been repeated so often and for so long, most illiterate Americans now firmly believe it as much as if it fell right after the beatitudes in The Gospel According to St. Matthew. Here's some valuable information to invalidate that mistruth:

The Real Reason America Dropped The Atomic Bomb. It Was Not To End The War
By DNA
on May 14, 2015
http://topinfopost.com/2015/05/14/the-r ... tomic-bomb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On August 6, 1945, the world (unfortunately) entered the atomic age. Without warning, a single nuclear bomb on the Japanese city of Hiroshima killed about 90,000 people instantly and injured many others – who then died from radiation sickness. Three days later, a second atomic strike on the city of Nagasaki killed some 37,000 people and injured another 43,000. Together the two bombs eventually killed an estimated 200,000 Japanese civilians.

“The Library of Congress adds roughly 60 million pages to its holdings each year, a huge cache of information for the public. However, also each year, the U.S. Government classifies nearly ten times that amount – an estimated 560 million pages of documents. For scholars engaged in political, historical, scientific, or any other archival work, the grim reality is that most of their government’s activities are secret.” – Richard Dolan, historian, author. (source)

A very important point made above, how can we really know anything about American history if a significant portion of it remains classified? That being said, how can we really know anything about American history when we have so many examples of dishonesty and misinformation? What will the history books say about 9/11? We will have to wait and see, but what our history books tell us about the atomic bomb and why it was dropped seems to be a complete lie, according to what are some very credible sources.

We are often taught that yes, use of the atomic bomb was necessary to end the war with Japan at the earliest possible moment, but judging by the statements of many high ranking political and military personnel this is simply not the case.

Here’s what General/President Dwight Eisenhower had to say about it in his 1963 memoir, The White House Years: Mandate for Change, 1953-1956 (pp. 312-313):

“Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly, our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of “face.” (source)

“The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing… I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon.” (source)

Given what I mentioned at the start of this article, I think it’s also important to note that Eisenhower also said (in his farewell address) that:

“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for a disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry, can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense, with our peaceful message and goals.” (source)

Did this “misplaced power” influence the decision to drop the atomic bomb? It’s impossible to say for sure, but it seems absurd to not consider the possibility.

“Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U.S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” – Woodrow Wilson, from his book entitled The New Freedom (1913).

Another great example comes from General Douglas MacArthur, who sent a 40-page memorandum to President Roosevelt that clearly outlines five different surrender overtures from high ranking Japanese officials. This memo was also revealed on the front page of the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Times on August 19th, 1945.

Again, the memo unequivocally states that the Japanese were offering to surrender. What is even more eye opening is the fact that the surrender terms were practically identical to what was ultimately accepted by the Americans after the bomb had dropped. The memo (source) stated these terms:
•Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
•Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
•Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea, and Taiwan.
•Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war.
•Release of all prisoners of war and internees.
•Surrender of designated war criminals

Japan also made multiple attempts to end the war through Sweden and Portugal, who were neutral at the time. They also approached Soviet Russia’s leaders “with a view of terminating the war if possible by September.”(source)

Here is a quote from Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence, Ellis Zacharias:

“Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia. Washington decided that Japan had been given its chance and now it was time to use the A-bomb. I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds.” (source)

Similarly, Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to presidents Roosevelt and Truman, later commented:

“It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan… The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons… My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.” (source)

There have also been some disturbing remarks like this one:

On September 9, 1945, Admiral William F. Halsey, commander of the Third Fleet, was publicly quoted extensively as stating that the atomic bomb was used because the scientists had a “toy and they wanted to try it out…” He further stated, “The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment… It was a mistake to ever drop it.”(source)

He said this despite the fact that most prominent scientists were completely against it. The scientists involved with the Manhattan project even wrote to the Secretary of Defense to try and encourage him not to drop the bomb.

So ask yourself, why did they really drop the bomb? A number of theories have been purposed; history.com outlines how it could have been dropped to demonstrate a new weapon of mass destruction to the Soviets. In 2005, new scientist alluded to the same thing, claiming that it was done to kick start the Cold War.

“The conventional wisdom that the atomic bomb saved a million lives is so widespread that… most Americans haven’t paused to ponder something rather striking to anyone seriously concerned with the issue: Not only did most top U.S. military leaders think the bombings were unnecessary and unjustified, many were morally offended by what they regarded as the unnecessary destruction of Japanese cities and what were essentially noncombat populations. Moreover, they spoke about it quite openly and publicly.” Gar Alperovitz, University of Maryland professor of political economy – and former Legislative Director in the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate, and Special Assistant in the Department of State (source) [END QUOTE]

I rediscovered this gem tonight:
Chapter XII, The Life of John Birch
It is doubtful if any nation ever had as much trouble in giving up in a war it had lost, in surrendering to the winner of that war on practically any terms the winner wanted, as did the Japanese with us. As far back as February, 1945, at the time of the Yalta Conference, it was already well known to our military leaders that Japan was ready to surrender.

When General MacArthur sent President Roosevelt before the Yalta meeting a memorandum stating that Japan was already collapsing, that the Japanese were already making unofficial peace overtures, and that it would be folly at this stage to bribe Russia or even allow Russia to come into the Pacific War as our ally, Roosevelt brushed it aside with the wisecrack that MacArthur was our best general and our worst politician. When Jacob Malik pigeonholed the actual Japanese off to discuss surrender steps for more than two months, nobody in the White House or the State Department let on that they even had the slightest suspicion Japan could be licked without dropping atom bombs on their cities. (END QUOTE) (By the way, Elder Ezra Taft Benson endorsed these comments in blue.)

Before a long post gets way too long, I will summarize. The US is guilty of murder of many innocent civilians in Japan. The federal government was full of traitors then and now. It's Ether 8 all over again.

Anecdotally, I lived in Japan for eight years including a mission for the Church. My wife is Japanese. I have worked for Japanese companies for almost all my entire career (currently 56 years of age). I read, write and speak the language. I have discussed conditions in Japan before, during and after the war with many Japanese. I know how reluctant most were to go to war back in the 1930's and 40's. What many think as some great samurai spirit or an indication that the Japanese were all ready to become kamikaze pilots is merely a result of excellent propaganda, on both sides of the Pacific. No, the leaders of Japan were not lily-white. However, the citizens did not deserve the treatment they received at the hands of the blood-thirsty Luciferians of the US government.

[Nebguy]

Wow Aussie, I feel your hate. That hate, however, is not reciprocated.


Believer

Especially when coming from a land originally settled by criminals and political dissidents. What can we expect?