The Most brutal empire in history

[Jason]

During the critical time when the representatives of the colonies were trying to frame the Constitution in that Old State Hall, Benjamin Franklin, the oldest man present, arose and stated his faith in an overruling Providence and in the power of prayer, and then said:

"I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: That God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?

We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings, that “Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel. . . .

Well said!!!

[Lockey]

True, there have been some who governed our Country at different times who did wicked things. Obama is a great example of this. But you cannot pin the hearts and souls of every American from the rise of this country to the present day on the acts of those who acted wickedly. That is contrary to the fact that we are not accountable for Adams transgressions. Thank God for the laws that govern true justice and mercy, in short thank GOD for GOD who is the only true judge. In respect to the Obama example I gave, I for one didn't vote for Obama. On a personal level, I don't want to be held spiritually accountable for the acts of evil people who do evil things that I have absolutely no control over i.e. who I did not vote for or support.

In all dispositions of time you can see good and evil living side by side, in the same countries, communities or neighborhoods. That would probably best describe much of the world at any given time. So to take ONLY the examples of the wicked acts among our nations past/present would be to discount every act of bravery, courage, sacrifice and faith that was also given. To imply that we are all wicked is to imply that there is no such thing as good and evil. It would imply that hope, faith or charity no longer exist. To further imply that America, ALL of us are responsible for such atrocities on the highest level that you imply is wrong. Take slavery for example. Half of the country disagareed with the idea of slavery, along with President Abraham Lincoln. A whole lot of people died along side our beloved President, to right this wrong. To purge our country from this sin. Was there sacrifice in vain? In every moment of our nations history, of any nations history you can find examples of both right and wrong, good and bad etc.. Welcome to life! In my opinion this does not mean were all going to hell. It does however mean that the war in heaven is very much alive and well here on earth! The great divide is very real!Condemning everyone to hell is not a good strategy in any war...

[Vision]

Wow Aussie, I feel your hate. That hate, however, is not reciprocated.


Believer

Aussie is not hateful, he is pointing out the facts. Believer detach yourself from the narratives programmed into you and face the facts.

[Vision]

Do I believe our country's foundational documents were divinely inspired? Yes,

So the God of the 1700's inspired men to write the foundational documents but turned his head when those same inspired men captured,sold,traded, whipped, beat,raped and trafficked in slaves, and raped, pillaged and plundered native americans?

[Lockey]

For starters, Aussie needs to understand that not all of our founding fathers were white skinned. The Iroquois Confederacy of Nations founded the 1st draft of our US Constitution. Look it up yourself in the Library of Congress. I looked into this myself and was amazed at how truth tells a much different story. In 1988 Congress passed a resolution entitled, "H. Con. Res. 331" where by the US Government clarifies that the 1st draft of the US Constitution was indeed originally written by "The Iroquois Confederacy of Nations." and was so admired by some of our founding fathers who asked the "Iroquois Confederacy of Nations" if they could use it as their own Constitution. See: http://fnx.org/blog/iroquois-confederac ... nstitution" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not all of our founding fathers were evil, raping nucklehead's! Not all of them had white skin, wealth, slaves and unlimited power as you suggest. Some of them certainly did and those individuals will be held accountable in the next life. But to focus solely on their evil acts alone can serve as a big distraction from the deep abiding truth and good that also existed at that time in other's.Their sacrifices and contributions have not gone unnoticed by God, who is the only true judge on what really transpired during that very turbulent time of our nations birth. Like I said, good and evil lived side by side back then, as it does now. Where you find the darkest, most evil acts of mankind you will also find the greatest humanity and courage within Gods children.Its funny how Satan seems to put his best on the front lines side by side with Gods best.

If you'd like to see an exact copy of this resolution enacted by Congress "H. Con. Res. 331" you can find it at this government web link: http://www.senate.gov/reference/resourc ... res331.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jason]

True, there have been some who governed our Country at different times who did wicked things. Obama is a great example of this. But you cannot pin the hearts and souls of every American from the rise of this country to the present day on the acts of those who acted wickedly. That is contrary to the fact that we are not accountable for Adams transgressions. Thank God for the laws that govern true justice and mercy, in short thank GOD for GOD who is the only true judge. In respect to the Obama example I gave, I for one didn't vote for Obama. On a personal level, I don't want to be held spiritually accountable for the acts of evil people who do evil things that I have absolutely no control over i.e. who I did not vote for or support.

In all dispositions of time you can see good and evil living side by side, in the same countries, communities or neighborhoods. That would probably best describe much of the world at any given time. So to take ONLY the examples of the wicked acts among our nations past/present would be to discount every act of bravery, courage, sacrifice and faith that was also given. To imply that we are all wicked is to imply that there is no such thing as good and evil. It would imply that hope, faith or charity no longer exist. To further imply that America, ALL of us are responsible for such atrocities on the highest level that you imply is wrong. Take slavery for example. Half of the country disagareed with the idea of slavery, along with President Abraham Lincoln. A whole lot of people died along side our beloved President, to right this wrong. To purge our country from this sin. Was there sacrifice in vain? In every moment of our nations history, of any nations history you can find examples of both right and wrong, good and bad etc.. Welcome to life! In my opinion this does not mean were all going to hell. It does however mean that the war in heaven is very much alive and well here on earth! The great divide is very real!Condemning everyone to hell is not a good strategy in any war...

No...one certainly can't pin this on every single American. That said its dictated by majority vote. When the salt runs out of the hour glass then the destruction rolls in. We'll be judged at the bar on our individual stances. That said my understanding of this earthly existence....we are tied together for better or worse.

Even a minority can dramatically effect the outcome and/or well being of society as a whole as you note in the Civil War. My previous rants on this thread are not so much intended as God's judgment at the bar as it is the consequences upon society as a whole (all of us) as a result of violating principles of God. Or in other words we will see direct results and impact upon our earthly lives as a result of the decisions by wicked folks and the general ignorance of the masses to those secret combinations.

For example as a society we can handle the economic consequences of locking up 1% of our population who are unwilling to abide by the laws designed to help us coexist in peace....and task another .25% to oversee them. But when you start locking up 5% or 10% with another 2.5-5% tasked with oversight...in other words moving from a production role to a non-production role...all heck breaks loose economically which impacts every single citizen of that society in one aspect or another (whether deserving or undeserving). There is a cost to wickedness that is borne by all in this physical life. Hopefully folks repent but repentance doesn't always alleviate the consequences of past actions.

an FYI for the analogy - we are currently running about 321 million people
http://www.census.gov/popclock/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2011 – about 0.94% of adults in the U.S. resident population.[7] Additionally, 4,814,200 adults at year-end 2011 were on probation or on parole.[11] In total, 6,977,700 adults were under correctional supervision (probation, parole, jail, or prison) in 2011 – about 2.9% of adults in the U.S. resident population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcera ... ted_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Graph showing the number of people (per 100,000 national population at that time) that is confined in state, local and federal correctional facilities from 1925 to the present
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/overtime.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another little interesting tidbit

Transgender adults and LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender) youth are disproportionately more likely than the general population to come into contact with the criminal justice system. According to the National Center for Transgender Equality, 16 percent of transgender adults have been in prison and/or jail, compared to 2.7 percent of all adults.[91] It has also been found that 13-15 percent of youth in detention identify as LGBT, whereas only an estimated 4-8 percent of the general youth population identify as such.[92]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcera ... ted_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another tidbit

Offenses - Statistics based on prior month's data -- -- Last Updated: Saturday, 27 June 2015
http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/sta ... fenses.jsp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And another

Between 1984 and 2005, the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation (CDCR) opened 21 new prisons to house a growing prison population. At the end of 2005, CDCR operated 33 prisons with a statewide design capacity of more than 80,000 beds. Prison population growth continued to outpace capacity, leading to a 2009 federal court order to reduce overcrowding in state facilities. To meet the court’s mandated population target without building new prisons, the legislature passed reforms designed to shift responsibility for certain offenders from the state to counties. In this new environment, the state’s corrections infrastructure spending is financing construction of county jails, plus medical, mental health, and ancillary facilities for CDCR. California is also paying outside public and private entities to house inmates in facilities in and out of state.
http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=1142" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

U.S. PRISON POPULATION TRENDS
http://sentencingproject.org/doc/public ... nds_fs.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The federal prison population has grown by 750 percent since 1980, resulting in rapidly increasing expenditures for incarceration and dangerous overcrowding. In response, Congress created the Charles Colson Task Force on Federal Corrections to examine trends in correctional growth and develop practical, data-driven policy responses.
http://www.urban.org/research/publicati ... population" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Between 1980 and 2013, the federal imprisonment rate increased 518 percent, from 11 inmates for every 100,000 U.S. residents to 68.1 During the same period, annual spending on the federal prison system rose 595 percent, from $970 million to more than $6.7 billion in inflation-adjusted dollars.2 Prison expenditures grew from 14 percent of the Justice Department’s total outlays to 23 percent, increasingly competing for resources with law enforcement and national security programs.
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-an ... eds-states" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An estimated 6,899,000 persons were under the supervision of adult correctional systems at yearend 2013, down from 6,940,500 at
yearend 2012 (figure 1). The decrease of 41,500 offenders in 2013 resulted in the number of persons under correctional supervision falling below 6.9 million for the first time since 2003. About 1 in 51 adults was on probation or parole at yearend 2013, compared to 1 in 110 adults incarcerated in prison or local jail
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpus13.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Growth of Incarceration in the United States
http://www.nap.edu/download.php?record_id=18613" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

State Imprisonment Rates by Year
http://www.cbpp.org/blog/the-rise-in-st ... opulations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prisoners in 2013
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p13.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The number of prisoners age 50 or older experienced a 330 percent increase from 1994 to 2011. The authors find that the proportion of these older prisoners is expected to have an even steeper growth curve in the near future and they may consume a disproportionately large amount of the federal prison budget.
http://www.urban.org/research/publicati ... son-system" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

World Prison Population List
http://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/defa ... ppl_10.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Silver]

Wow. I recently joined. This thread makes me glad I did. Some powerful witnesses here. The prophets have warned us and the saints, in general, ignored the warnings. Now we will reap the whirlwind.

[minorityofone]

I heard of a nation once that actually enslaved people because they looked different, they would actually kidnap these people from their families without any care of separating them from loved ones, and sell them like animals. This nation didn't allow women to vote, many thought raping women whose skin was a different color wasn't really rape at all, they treated many immigrants as trash and drove the native inhabitants from their lands and thought themselves the possessors of light and knowledge that made them better than all of the other people they called savages (pretty much the Freemason mentality) and somehow history turned these people into heroes. I know it sounds ridiculous but people actually believe this! Fortunately that country has repented to a great degree and has moved significantly towards equality in civil rights. Women can actually vote and they are even moving towards paying women an equal rate to men in the work force if you can believe it.
Any sin the U.S. is doing now is progress compared to other cultures of history. Instead of aborting babies Romans used to "discard" them after birth without a thought. All of the debauchery, rape, pornographic material, abuse of children, and any other conceivable sin has not been done to a greater degree here than it has been done in the past, and the U.S. has shown only progress since it's birth. Abortion was practiced heavily by the LDS saints when they were trying to hide polygamous pregnancies. Battles used to occur because of a difference in belief. We hear of tales of the mountain meadows massacre, multiple assassinations, justification and legalization of adultery in the form of so called divine command. These same people created a creed that people with different skin color were inferior and cursed, which still leaves a taint of racism justified by false doctrine. Anyway at least we have seen some progress made.

[Silver]

The Most brutal empire in history?


8. Use of Weapons of Mass Destruction: How ironic that the world's policeman for weapons of mass destruction is the only one to use them on a mass scale. The United States is on record using chemical, biological and even nuclear weapons. From the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII, to Monsanto's Agent Orange in Vietnam, to the depleted uranium used in Afghanistan and Iraq, America only condemns itself when speaking about the evils of WMDs. However, killers don't appear to care how the killing is accomplished, so long as it achieves their goals. The real firecrackers will likely be brought out in a confrontation with Iran, or if China and Russia are lured into the conflict. It won't really matter much what history says if the use of WMD escalates by either side, but the aggressors should rightly be blamed for the ensuing scorched earth, while the defenders against killers and thieves should be viewed as righteous.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the War and saved at least a million lives. Why was Nagasaki needed after Hiroshima. Because the fanatical leaders of japan were not going to give up no matter what. It took two!

The rebuttal in red above is one of those lies that has been repeated so often and for so long, most illiterate Americans now firmly believe it as much as if it fell right after the beatitudes in The Gospel According to St. Matthew. Here's some valuable information to invalidate that mistruth:

The Real Reason America Dropped The Atomic Bomb. It Was Not To End The War
By DNA
on May 14, 2015
http://topinfopost.com/2015/05/14/the-r ... tomic-bomb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On August 6, 1945, the world (unfortunately) entered the atomic age. Without warning, a single nuclear bomb on the Japanese city of Hiroshima killed about 90,000 people instantly and injured many others – who then died from radiation sickness. Three days later, a second atomic strike on the city of Nagasaki killed some 37,000 people and injured another 43,000. Together the two bombs eventually killed an estimated 200,000 Japanese civilians.

“The Library of Congress adds roughly 60 million pages to its holdings each year, a huge cache of information for the public. However, also each year, the U.S. Government classifies nearly ten times that amount – an estimated 560 million pages of documents. For scholars engaged in political, historical, scientific, or any other archival work, the grim reality is that most of their government’s activities are secret.” – Richard Dolan, historian, author. (source)

A very important point made above, how can we really know anything about American history if a significant portion of it remains classified? That being said, how can we really know anything about American history when we have so many examples of dishonesty and misinformation? What will the history books say about 9/11? We will have to wait and see, but what our history books tell us about the atomic bomb and why it was dropped seems to be a complete lie, according to what are some very credible sources.

We are often taught that yes, use of the atomic bomb was necessary to end the war with Japan at the earliest possible moment, but judging by the statements of many high ranking political and military personnel this is simply not the case.

Here’s what General/President Dwight Eisenhower had to say about it in his 1963 memoir, The White House Years: Mandate for Change, 1953-1956 (pp. 312-313):

“Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly, our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of “face.” (source)

“The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing… I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon.” (source)

Given what I mentioned at the start of this article, I think it’s also important to note that Eisenhower also said (in his farewell address) that:

“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for a disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry, can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense, with our peaceful message and goals.” (source)

Did this “misplaced power” influence the decision to drop the atomic bomb? It’s impossible to say for sure, but it seems absurd to not consider the possibility.

“Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U.S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” – Woodrow Wilson, from his book entitled The New Freedom (1913).

Another great example comes from General Douglas MacArthur, who sent a 40-page memorandum to President Roosevelt that clearly outlines five different surrender overtures from high ranking Japanese officials. This memo was also revealed on the front page of the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Times on August 19th, 1945.

Again, the memo unequivocally states that the Japanese were offering to surrender. What is even more eye opening is the fact that the surrender terms were practically identical to what was ultimately accepted by the Americans after the bomb had dropped. The memo (source) stated these terms:
•Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
•Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
•Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea, and Taiwan.
•Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war.
•Release of all prisoners of war and internees.
•Surrender of designated war criminals

Japan also made multiple attempts to end the war through Sweden and Portugal, who were neutral at the time. They also approached Soviet Russia’s leaders “with a view of terminating the war if possible by September.”(source)

Here is a quote from Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence, Ellis Zacharias:

“Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia. Washington decided that Japan had been given its chance and now it was time to use the A-bomb. I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds.” (source)

Similarly, Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to presidents Roosevelt and Truman, later commented:

“It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan… The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons… My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.” (source)

There have also been some disturbing remarks like this one:

On September 9, 1945, Admiral William F. Halsey, commander of the Third Fleet, was publicly quoted extensively as stating that the atomic bomb was used because the scientists had a “toy and they wanted to try it out…” He further stated, “The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment… It was a mistake to ever drop it.”(source)

He said this despite the fact that most prominent scientists were completely against it. The scientists involved with the Manhattan project even wrote to the Secretary of Defense to try and encourage him not to drop the bomb.

So ask yourself, why did they really drop the bomb? A number of theories have been purposed; history.com outlines how it could have been dropped to demonstrate a new weapon of mass destruction to the Soviets. In 2005, new scientist alluded to the same thing, claiming that it was done to kick start the Cold War.

“The conventional wisdom that the atomic bomb saved a million lives is so widespread that… most Americans haven’t paused to ponder something rather striking to anyone seriously concerned with the issue: Not only did most top U.S. military leaders think the bombings were unnecessary and unjustified, many were morally offended by what they regarded as the unnecessary destruction of Japanese cities and what were essentially noncombat populations. Moreover, they spoke about it quite openly and publicly.” Gar Alperovitz, University of Maryland professor of political economy – and former Legislative Director in the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate, and Special Assistant in the Department of State (source) [END QUOTE]

I rediscovered this gem tonight:
Chapter XII, The Life of John Birch
It is doubtful if any nation ever had as much trouble in giving up in a war it had lost, in surrendering to the winner of that war on practically any terms the winner wanted, as did the Japanese with us. As far back as February, 1945, at the time of the Yalta Conference, it was already well known to our military leaders that Japan was ready to surrender.

When General MacArthur sent President Roosevelt before the Yalta meeting a memorandum stating that Japan was already collapsing, that the Japanese were already making unofficial peace overtures, and that it would be folly at this stage to bribe Russia or even allow Russia to come into the Pacific War as our ally, Roosevelt brushed it aside with the wisecrack that MacArthur was our best general and our worst politician. When Jacob Malik pigeonholed the actual Japanese off to discuss surrender steps for more than two months, nobody in the White House or the State Department let on that they even had the slightest suspicion Japan could be licked without dropping atom bombs on their cities. (END QUOTE) (By the way, Elder Ezra Taft Benson endorsed these comments in blue.)

Before a long post gets way too long, I will summarize. The US is guilty of murder of many innocent civilians in Japan. The federal government was full of traitors then and now. It's Ether 8 all over again.

Anecdotally, I lived in Japan for eight years including a mission for the Church. My wife is Japanese. I have worked for Japanese companies for almost all my entire career (currently 56 years of age). I read, write and speak the language. I have discussed conditions in Japan before, during and after the war with many Japanese. I know how reluctant most were to go to war back in the 1930's and 40's. What many think as some great samurai spirit or an indication that the Japanese were all ready to become kamikaze pilots is merely a result of excellent propaganda, on both sides of the Pacific. No, the leaders of Japan were not lily-white. However, the citizens did not deserve the treatment they received at the hands of the blood-thirsty Luciferians of the US government.

[Nebguy]

Wow Aussie, I feel your hate. That hate, however, is not reciprocated.


Believer

Especially when coming from a land originally settled by criminals and political dissidents. What can we expect?

[Desert Roses]

Do I believe our country's foundational documents were divinely inspired? Yes,

So the God of the 1700's inspired men to write the foundational documents but turned his head when those same inspired men captured,sold,traded, whipped, beat,raped and trafficked in slaves, and raped, pillaged and plundered native americans?

Inspired founding fathers and documents, yes. For what purpose, though? For the sole reason that there was no other place that would/could have given opportunity for the restoration of the gospel. I believe God lets people do what their agency allows, particularly as societies. I disagree the the US is the MOST brutal empire in history, because I study history. We also need to realize that the things that are so awful are only so by 19th/20th/21st century sensibilities. For the first time in human history, movements such as the Abolition movement of the 1800's are even possible and have created changes in society. Prior to this, it was nearly unthinkable that morality would have any impact on governance and national policy of ANY empire from the Egyptians to the Babylonians to the Greeks to the Romans to the Europeans of all stripes. American society has indeed been extremely brutal and far out of alignment with God's word and law, despite claiming to be a Christian nation. American slavery was my specialty in my undergrad studies, and indeed, it was terrible and brutal. I am currently working on indexing from the Freedman's Bureau of Labor, and the contracts for children binding them as apprentices for years because their parents had been sold or killed are heart-rending. Evil, dishonesty, corruption--these are not new in human history. Satan was not lying when he said he would reign with blood and horror on this earth. Just be aware, he has done so for as long as humans have been around, starting with Cain and Abel. Empires--yep, all of them, brutal and horrible. Aren't we blessed that in this century we can say that about our own regime without being alone in our call, or without fearing death as a result?

[Jason]

You are probably right...especially when compared against folks (empires) like Vlad the Impaler (and many others). At least in terms of sheer brutality.

The US though is up there simply because it has the capability of being so different than the rest of the world. Very unique start with some pretty heavy handedness from the Lord in getting it launched.

The people for the most part who have come to the US and colonized her....have been God fearing folks with strong Judeo-Christian heritage and traditions. We also have the bread basket of the world...and no close powerful enemies. The capability of leading the rest of the world in strong core values/principles....and associated respective laws established by God.

Instead we've become the heavy right hand of the adversary in global dominion...