Was 9-11 our Mormon 3:10?

[oneClimbs]

http://oneclimbs.com/2011/09/11/was-911-our-mormon-310/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This has been on my mind a lot lately. I haven't seen anyone else bring up this topic in relation to our current situation. I've come to the conclusion that this one subject could prove our destruction more than anything else. What do you, my distingushed colleages of the forum, think about this subject?

[HeirofNumenor]

http://oneclimbs.com/2011/09/11/was-911-our-mormon-310/

This has been on my mind a lot lately. I haven't seen anyone else bring up this topic in relation to our current situation. I've come to the conclusion that this one subject could prove our destruction more than anything else. What do you, my distinguished colleagues of the forum, think about this subject?

Mormon 3:10
10 And they did swear by the heavens, and also by the throne of God, that they would go up to battle against their enemies, and would cut them off from the face of the land.

Yep.

[Mr Lonely]

http://oneclimbs.com/2011/09/11/was-911-our-mormon-310/

This has been on my mind a lot lately. I haven't seen anyone else bring up this topic in relation to our current situation. I've come to the conclusion that this one subject could prove our destruction more than anything else. What do you, my distinguished colleages of the forum, think about this subject?

Thank you for posting this link. I thought I was the only one thinking along these lines. Being slow of speech, I had found it difficult to express what I felt about this scripture and the WTC attack. When I tried to express my thoughts to those around me, I was quickly rejected, and told "You're listening to the wrong source". I believe that we can look back to see why so many people are deceived. One of the "10 points" of Marx's plan for communism is free public education.

My understanding is that Marxism and socialism became popular in the US, in the mid 1800's, and became especially so in the late 1800's. I note that this is the same time period that widespread support of "free public schools" also became the standard system of education, replacing the local responsibility for education. Many of the supporters of public education were socialists, and they would hardly have taught anything else in schools.

There was a concerted effort on many Eastern groups and individuals to replace the Church supported schools in Utah with "free public schools", indeed, it was a central provision of the admittance of Utah to the Union as a state. Can anyone really think that our education system, promoted by and in many cases, controlled by those who espoused socialism, would not use it to destroy knowledge of The Constitution, and teach their own ideas? After 120+ years of this, is it any wonder that, except for those who seek it out, most of us have little knowledge or understanding of the Constitution? In place of the Constitution, Stateism was taught, and that is what many of us believe in today.

So now, we have a large percentage of the population who accept the State as supreme, without questioning it. I have to admit that as I watched the towers fall, I wanted revenge. I was angry and felt threatened, violated, and many other things, as did a great many of us. I can't pinpoint when or how I started to question things, but I did. And as I studied and learned, I grew to really appreciate the Book of Mormon.

I believe the really sad part is that so many of us were, and are, deceived by a secret combination, inspired and led by the Adversary, to support wars that were aimed at the innocent. It would have been bad enough to swear revenge against the guilty, but we, as a nation, swore revenge and attacked the innocent. And I think that was the point that sealed our future, as a nation, and as many individuals.

I wonder if the Spirit constrained Mormon from speaking for peace, after the Nephites swore revenge? I think Mormon was constrained, for the Nephites had chosen their destiny, had read reached the point of no return. And I think that it is the same today, the Prophets are constrained from speaking about the Constitution and other things for the same reasons. Perhaps they, and we who have awakend, have become idle witnesses to the destruction of a nation, indeed, many nations.

Mr Lonely

[oneClimbs]

I am afraid you are right, Mr. Lonely, well said.

[JohnnyL]

I believe the really sad part is that so many of us were, and are, deceived by a secret combination, inspired and led by the Adversary, to support wars that were aimed at the innocent. It would have been bad enough to swear revenge against the guilty, but we, as a nation, swore revenge and attacked the innocent. And I think that was the point that sealed our future, as a nation, and as many individuals.

Robin Hood!! (The Russell Crowe one.)

I wonder if the Spirit constrained Mormon from speaking for peace, after the Nephites swore revenge? I think Mormon was constrained, for the Nephites had chosen their destiny, had read reached the point of no return. And I think that it is the same today, the Prophets are constrained from speaking about the Constitution and other things for the same reasons. Perhaps they, and we who have awakend, have become idle witnesses to the destruction of a nation, indeed, many nations.
Mr Lonely

I think there is a difference, though. Now, many people are still good at heart and action, and everyone is led on by covert forces.

[Matthew.B]

I agree with JohnnyL. I was too young to really understand what was happening, but from what I've read and seen since 9/11 I don't think the attitude among the nation was equivalent to 'swearing by the throne of God'- plus, as was mentioned, the covert actions and coverups served to greatly blind the minds of the people.

Seeing how this country has been headed in recent years, however, if you get a charismatic religionist as the President when another 9/11 occurs, and if he can get the nation to follow him, and if he starts justifying warmongering as God's work...

I think before we hit our Mormon 3:10 the nation first has to fully reject the Gospel and cling to their idolatrous version of God as they seek to destroy our enemies. I don't think we'll have qualified as 'rejecting' the Gospel until the Church is actually outlawed/disenfranchised/'taken over' and the true Saints are openly persecuted and possibly killed.

[JohnnyL]

I think it's good to keep in mind that many people will flee to Zion, and that includes many non-members.

There will still be many good people at heart who will despise telestial living and seek for something better when the only choice is extremely low telestial or terrestial.

Elder Maxwell, Dec 1978:
We see only the tips of other truths, such as the one revealing that the Church, the army of the Lord, will become “very great,” in a day when others will acknowledge whose the Church is and will even ask to live under Zion’s laws. (See D&C 105:31, 32.) The Lord permitted his prophet, John Taylor, to elaborate on this last verse in 1879:

“Those who will not take up their sword to fight against their neighbor must needs flee to Zion for safety. And they will come, saying, we do not know anything of the principles of your religion, but we perceive that you are an honest community; you administer justice and righteousness, and we want to live with you and receive the protection of your laws, but as for your religion we will talk about that some other time. Will we protect such people? Yes, all honorable men. When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States, the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men, and extending the hand of fellowship to the oppressed of all nations. This is part of the programme, and as long as we do what is right and fear God he will help us and stand by us under all circumstances.” (Deseret News Weekly, 28 Jan. 1880, 28:818; see also D&C 45:68–69.)

[oneClimbs]

The Nephite nation was probably around 250k from my estimates right at the end there. The ancient world was not as populated as the modern world. We are a mixed nation, there are few good and many degenerate. God will not do to all of us as he did to the Nephites. There will be a division, he will harvest the wheat from the tares.

I think as a nation, we have rejected God. Our gods we worship are made of plastic, metal and paper. We don't look to God as our defense, we look to the power of bombs and weapons. We have allowed the secret combinations to come among us. We may not be swearing in the name of God against our enemies, but we ARE going out against them, something that Christ has forbidden.

[Matthew.B]

I think as a nation, we have rejected God. Our gods we worship are made of plastic, metal and paper. We don't look to God as our defense, we look to the power of bombs and weapons. We have allowed the secret combinations to come among us. We may not be swearing in the name of God against our enemies, but we ARE going out against them, something that Christ has forbidden.

I've been thinking about this for some time. It's clear that we've lost the spirit of Pure Religion in this country, and that it's been gone for some time. Yet if that were enough to justify God's vengeance, there would be no government extant on the planet today (as we know it). I think they key to understanding exactly when the Tribulations will start is watching for when the government begins crossing the 'lines in the sand' laid down by our Founders (i.e., when the government blatantly and willfully breaks the most sacrosanct of the 'thou shalt nots' of the Constitution/Bill of Rights).

2 Nephi 9:25, 27 (artfully edited): "[W]here there is no law given there is no punishment; and where there is no punishment there is no condemnation... But wo unto him that has the law given... and that transgresseth [it]... for awful is his state!"

So, according to the methods of God, a person is under no condemnation for not keeping a law he hasn't been given. BUT all men are accountable for breaking all the laws they have been given, and if the offense is grievous enough and the goal is to 'get gain', it is the LORD'S right to step in.

For example, the American Revolution: the original Colonial charters granted all of the land, from the Atlantic to Pacific Oceans, on the American continent between latitudes X and Y to that corporation (colony). Legally, each Colony owned all that land. After the French and Indian War, however, the Proclamation of 1763 declared all non-colonized land west of the Colonies to be property of the British Crown (ostensibly to protect the Native Americans). The King had no right to do this, yet enforced that act via the Redcoats occupying the major Colonial cities with orders to arrest anyone trying to expand. This was illegal on a few grounds, including the ancient sacrosanct English concept of land ownership ('freeholding') which held that the King had no right to take 'freeholds' (land) from the rightful owners. Furthermore, to support the Redcoats, Parliament imposed a tax on the colonies. In essence, the colonies were being taxed (without representation) to support and enforce an illegal law which was, literally, stealing from the Colonists. Those actions violated several fundamental British laws and, when the Revolution began, the Lord fought for the Colonists because the nation of Britain had crossed over the 'lines in the sand' (laws) they swore not to cross for the purpose of getting gain illegally.

So, the question remains: which 'sacrosanct' law is the government breaking in our day?

There's the unconstitutional wars, the unconstitutional debt, the unconstitutional welfare and auxiliary programs, the unconstitutional [fill in the blank]...

But I don't think the Lord will fully unleash His wrath (the Tribulation; point of no return) until the government begins blatantly disregarding its basic function: protecting the religious rights of its citizens. And where will the Tribulation begin? Upon the Lord's house, upon all those who blasphemed His name in the midst of His house.

So, you have the government that's going to (again) seek to destroy the LDS Church and punish the faithful Saints. Only this time, there won't be any wildernes to run to, America will have become "fully ripe" and the wicked nations of the world sufficiently angry that they'll attack when our troubles begin.

What I don't fully get is what 'gain' the government could get from our oppression.

[oneClimbs]

I doubt the oppression will be directed specifically at the Saints. I think there will be an attempt to put down true patriots and free-thinkers who push back against the gradual secularization. I don't think the persecution will be outright. There are a lot of ways this thing can play out.

[HeirofNumenor]

But I don't think the Lord will fully unleash His wrath (the Tribulation; point of no return) until the government begins blatantly disregarding its basic function: protecting the religious rights of its citizens. And where will the Tribulation begin? Upon the Lord's house, upon all those who blasphemed His name in the midst of His house.

So, you have the government that's going to (again) seek to destroy the LDS Church and punish the faithful Saints. Only this time, there won't be any wildernes to run to, America will have become "fully ripe" and the wicked nations of the world sufficiently angry that they'll attack when our troubles begin.

What I don't fully get is what 'gain' the government could get from our oppression.

My understanding is that the Lord's grounds for annihilation of a people are these:
1) When the wicked cast out and kill the righteous,
2) and when the youth & children have utterly no ability to learn/grow up righteousness (evidently this means outside the home): total saturation of immorality (including homosexuality & (possibly even) bestiality normalized)

The 'government' (from Satan on down) will get satisfaction of having removed a major thorn in their side (defiance, a people apart who will not partake of their sins and spoils). remember that evil wants total conformity - NO ONE can refuse to submit, lest those that have been enticed - let alone those that are about to partake - have a sudden attack of conscience 7 change of heart...and reject the sins and come unto Christ...

[Mark]

http://oneclimbs.com/2011/09/11/was-911-our-mormon-310/

This has been on my mind a lot lately. I haven't seen anyone else bring up this topic in relation to our current situation. I've come to the conclusion that this one subject could prove our destruction more than anything else. What do you, my distingushed colleages of the forum, think about this subject?

I'm far from a distinguished colleague but my 2 cents here is that you did a great job on the article Steve. I really like it when someone just lays out the facts and lets me think for myself without cramming their own interpretations and paradigms down my throat when it comes to various conspiracies and combinations. It is a much more effective way to make ones point. Your comparisons of actions taken today in contrast to these great Book of Mormon leaders are on point and very relevant to our current situation today. As Pres Kimball so elequently stated in his talk about the false Gods we worship:

In spite of our delight in regarding ourselves as modern, and our tendency to think we possess a sophistication that no people in the past ever had—in spite of these things, we are, on the whole, an idolatrous people—a condition most repugnant to the Lord.

We are a warlike people, easily distracted from our assignment of preparing for the coming of the Lord. When enemies rise up, we commit vast resources to the fabrication of gods of stone and steel—ships, planes, missiles, fortifications—and depend on them for protection and deliverance. When threatened, we align ourselves against the enemy instead of aligning ourselves with the kingdom of God; we train a man in the art of war and call him a patriot, thus, in the manner of Satan’s counterfeit of true patriotism, perverting the Savior’s teaching:

“Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

“That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.” (Matt. 5:44–45.)

We forget that if we are righteous, the Lord will either not suffer our enemies to come upon us—and this is the special promise to the inhabitants of the land of the Americas (see 2 Ne. 1:7)—or he will fight our battles for us (Ex. 14:14; D&C 98:37, to name only two references of many). This he is able to do, for as he said at the time of his betrayal, “Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?” (Matt. 26:53.) We can imagine what fearsome soldiers they would be. King Jehoshaphat and his people were delivered by such a troop (see 2 Chr. 20), and when Elisha’s life was threatened, he comforted his servant by saying, “Fear not; for they that be with us are more than they that be with them” (2 Kgs. 6:16). The Lord then opened the eyes of the servant, “And he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.” (2 Kgs. 6:17.)

Enoch, too, was a man of great faith who would not be distracted from his duties by the enemy: “And so great was the faith of Enoch, that he led the people of God, and their enemies came to battle against them; and he spake the word of the Lord, and the earth trembled, and the mountains fled, even according to his command; and the rivers of water were turned out of their course; and the roar of the lions were heard out of the wilderness; and all nations feared greatly, so powerful was the word of Enoch.” (Moses 7:13.)

What are we to fear when the Lord is with us? Can we not take the Lord at his word and exercise a particle of faith in him? Our assignment is positive: to forsake the things of the world as goals in themselves; to desist from idolatry and press forward in faith; to carry the gospel to our enemies, that they might no longer be our enemies.

We must leave off the worship of modern-day idols and a reliance on the “arm of flesh,” for the Lord has said to all the world in our day, “I will not spare any that remain in Babylon.” (D&C 64:24.)

You are right in line with Pres. Kimball on this so kudo's to you for your excellent thoughts Bro.

[oneClimbs]

Thanks, Mark.

I have read this talk several times but it has been a while. It appears that some of Kimball's teachings have stuck with me and influenced portions of my article, especially the part about "When enemies rise up, we commit vast resources to the fabrication of gods of stone and steel—ships, planes, missiles, fortifications—and depend on them for protection and deliverance." I think I might look at including parts of this talk in the article!

I'm going to go back and re-read it again, thanks again for your input!

[friendsofthe]

Matthew B wrote:
I think before we hit our Mormon 3:10 the nation first has to fully reject the Gospel and cling to their idolatrous version of God as they seek to destroy our enemies. I don't think we'll have qualified as 'rejecting' the Gospel until the Church is actually outlawed/disenfranchised/'taken over' and the true Saints are openly persecuted and possibly killed.

Not quite the conditions that Orson Pratt describes.
Of the conditions when this nation, America is “cut off”, Orson Pratt said:

“Yes, that is one of the great events that will transpire, when the people of the nations are careless and indifferent, when they are eating and drinking, buying and selling, and their minds wholly swallowed up with the various occupations of life.”

JMHO. For a more complete reference on Orson Pratt’s comments read the second to the last post on this thread:
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 0&start=60

[Army Of Truth]

Great thread. I agree with you 5tev3; and Mark, great quotes!

Mark's quotes prompted me to recall these wise words from Pres. Hinckley in Aug. 2005:

"“The Book of Mormon narrative is a chronicle of nations long since gone. But in its descriptions of the problems of today's society, it is as current as the morning newspaper and much more definitive, inspired, and inspiring concerning the solutions of those problems.
I know of no other writing which sets forth with such clarity the tragic consequences to societies that follow courses contrary to the commandments of God. Its pages trace the stories of two distinct civilizations that flourished on the Western Hemisphere. Each began as a small nation, its people walking in the fear of the Lord. But with prosperity came growing evils.

The people succumbed to the wiles of ambitious and scheming leaders who oppressed them with burdensome taxes, who lulled them with hollow promises, who countenanced and even encouraged loose and lascivious living. These evil schemers led the people into terrible wars that resulted in the death of millions and the final and total extinction of two great civilizations in two different eras."

If we fail to learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.

[7cylon7]

No to answer your question.

[oneClimbs]

Mark and everyone else, I have added a new section towards the end called "Latter-day Idolatry" that I feel really nails the the point of this article in a way that I feel really gets down to the truth that honestly gave me the chills when I read these quotes in context. Thanks to Mark for inspiring this change, I hope I did the topic justice.

http://oneclimbs.com/2011/09/11/was-911-our-mormon-310/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Mark]

Mark and everyone else, I have added a new section towards the end called "Latter-day Idolatry" that I feel really nails the the point of this article in a way that I feel really gets down to the truth that honestly gave me the chills when I read these quotes in context. Thanks to Mark for inspiring this change, I hope I did the topic justice.

http://oneclimbs.com/2011/09/11/was-911-our-mormon-310/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You did indeed Bro! Now I know what its like to feel famous. (Pride check on Mark) )

[oneClimbs]

I just added one additional point as the cherry on top. I embedded a video, not as the endorsement of a candidate, but as an endorsement of a realistic, modern foreign policy that would meet the just principles outlined in the article.

[HeirofNumenor]

Stev - that was an AWESOME log and video! Thank you for compiling that! :ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

[oneClimbs]

Matthew B wrote:
I think before we hit our Mormon 3:10 the nation first has to fully reject the Gospel and cling to their idolatrous version of God as they seek to destroy our enemies. I don't think we'll have qualified as 'rejecting' the Gospel until the Church is actually outlawed/disenfranchised/'taken over' and the true Saints are openly persecuted and possibly killed.

Not quite the conditions that Orson Pratt describes.
Of the conditions when this nation, America is “cut off”, Orson Pratt said:

“Yes, that is one of the great events that will transpire, when the people of the nations are careless and indifferent, when they are eating and drinking, buying and selling, and their minds wholly swallowed up with the various occupations of life.”

JMHO. For a more complete reference on Orson Pratt’s comments read the second to the last post on this thread:
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 0&start=60

Great quote, friendsofthe! I think Orson Pratt's words aptly sum up the nature of people in our generation.

[linj2fly]

Excellent article, Steve! Your website is a treasure. I really liked the article on etymology and two trees as well.

I would love to send that article to my family (and I probably will, anyway), but the most frequent rebuttal I get to the Mormon 3 scenario is Mormon 5:1 in which Mormon says he 'repented of [his] oath." I have encountered many members who interpret this to mean that Mormon made a mistake in not leading the army after they decided to 'go up unto battle against their enemies.' I've met more that read this passage to mean that Mormon refused because the Nephites were boasting in their strength. **sigh** Maybe an etymological study of the word 'repent' would be helpful. As to whether he made a 'mistake,' I think Mormon 3:16 exonerates him.

Do I think that 9-11 was our Mormon 3:10?

10 And they did swear by the heavens, and also by the throne of God, that they would go up to battle against their enemies, and would cut them off from the face of the land.

Absolutely.

And they did swear by the heavens, and also by the throne of God. We invoked God in our vengeance, I mean, defense.
that they would go up to battle against their enemies. We, too left our borders to battle the enemy in their land.
and would cut them off from the face of the land. root out the terrorists. Can't tell you how many Christians I come across, including my family, that think we should nuke the **** of them. Talk about carpet bombing. It's the 'get rid of them (arabs/muslims) once and for all' attitude.

I remember being caught up in the post 9/11 feelings. The shock and numbness gave way to 'unity' which gave way to 'patriotism' which gave way to nationalism and a spirit of vengeance...even in supposedly 'pacifist' oregon--it was kick a** time.

I think it's interesting to note that the Nephites used the word 'avenge' to support 'going up against their enemies. This word would also be a good study for etymology. To me, when I think of that word, I feel a noble, righteous sense of retaliation...like it's my duty to 'avenge the blood of my brethren.' But the Lord says vengeance is his. Clearly, in this chapter, the Nephites are wrong....so wrong they are about to seal their fate...the lord withdraws the last bit of his support from their army in time of war.

To avenge is “to get revenge” or “to take vengeance”; it suggests the administration of just punishment for a criminal or immoral act. Revenge seems to stress the idea of retaliation a bit more strongly and implies real hatred as its motivation. ["The Columbia Guide to Standard American English," 1993]

Another verse to support 'vengeance is mine, and I will repay:

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

21 Be not overcome of evil, but aovercome evil with good.

Wherein does our enemy hunger and thirst? What does it men, "thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head" ?

thoughts?

[Mr Lonely]

It places one firmly on the Lords side. A telestial person would be angry and desire vengeance, a righteous person, following Christ, would not. If one takes vengeance against an enemy, the enemy is justified in his action, if you do good to your enemy, he condemns himself for his actions, thereby bringing down the Lords vengeance upon himself. Another way of looking at it is that we all are the children of God. Does He not bless all of us with what we need in order to have life? He provides us with the necessities of life, regardless of how we treat Him or our brothers and sisters. By providing the food when the enemy is hungry and water when he is thirsty, we are emulating the Lord, and it sets us apart from those who wish to harm us. The food and drink also can be thought of as the Gospel, much the same way that Alma and his brothers brought the Gospel to the Laminates. Or, 2 wrongs make 2 in Hellfire, 1 wrong and 1 good make 1 in Hellfire and 1 in Paradise (at worst), and maybe 2 in Paradise and 0 in Hellfire (at best). . Maybe a bit crude, but I think it's close to the concept.

[oneClimbs]

linj2fly, it makes me happy to hear that my site is useful to you. The rebuttal you mentioned using using Mormon 5:1 is an EASY one dismantle if you simply read what is happening in the verses surrounding that one verse. In the previous chapter towards the end, the Nephites are being driven hard by the Lamanites, they are in the process of fleeing; I suspect that they are fleeing because they are no longer strong enough to offensively attack.

After Mormon leads them again, you will notice that they never offensively attack the Lamanites again from this point until their destruction, their fate is already sealed. Note the language of all subsequent battles:

- the Lamanites did come against us as we had fled to the city of Jordan
- they came against us again, and we did maintain the city
- the Lamanites did come again against us to battle, and we did stand against them boldly
- we did again take to flight
- The next battle was their last at Cumorah.

Mormon never led them in an offensive war - ever. Their last battles were fleeing and defending. So to use the fact that Mormon went back on his oath to lead them was probably only because they were in a state of weakness where he knew that they couldn't offensively attack.

Reread verse 1: "they looked upon me as though I could deliver them from their afflictions." They were not wanting to be led into battle, they were wanting someone to SAVE them from attack!

You mentioned: "Wherein does our enemy hunger and thirst?" I would suspect that an answer to this question can be found when we consider Christ healing the ear of one of the men who was coming to take him to his death. Look to the example of the sons of Mosiah and Alma.

"thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head"? The burning of hell is considered as a state of consciousness wherein we are aware of our guilt and burdened with it, like Alma the younger recalls (Alma 36). Responding with kindness to one who puts forth malice sears their conscious and can purify their outlook.

[JohnnyL]

linj2fly, it makes me happy to hear that my site is useful to you. The rebuttal you mentioned using using Mormon 5:1 is an EASY one dismantle if you simply read what is happening in the verses surrounding that one verse. In the previous chapter towards the end, the Nephites are being driven hard by the Lamanites, they are in the process of fleeing; I suspect that they are fleeing because they are no longer strong enough to offensively attack.

After Mormon leads them again, you will notice that they never offensively attack the Lamanites again from this point until their destruction, their fate is already sealed. Note the language of all subsequent battles:

- the Lamanites did come against us as we had fled to the city of Jordan
- they came against us again, and we did maintain the city
- the Lamanites did come again against us to battle, and we did stand against them boldly
- we did again take to flight
- The next battle was their last at Cumorah.

Mormon never led them in an offensive war - ever. Their last battles were fleeing and defending. So to use the fact that Mormon went back on his oath to lead them was probably only because they were in a state of weakness where he knew that they couldn't offensively attack.

Reread verse 1: "they looked upon me as though I could deliver them from their afflictions." They were not wanting to be led into battle, they were wanting someone to SAVE them from attack!...

Good!! :ymapplause: