Which laws are immoral, and do Americans need to obey them?

[Kingdom of ZION]

Which laws are immoral, and do Americans [the Saints of G_d] need to obey them?

The Declaration of the Kingdom of ZION

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one
People to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with
another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and
equal station to which the Laws and Commandments of God, Nature, Common
Law, and the Constitution entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of
mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to
the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are
not created equal in the sight of God, that they were however all endowed
by the Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,
Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness/Property. That to secure these rights,
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the
consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes
destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to
abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such
principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem
most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will
dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light
and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that
mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to
right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But
when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same
Object evidences a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is
their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide
new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance
of all true followers of Joseph Smith, Jun.; and such is now the necessity
which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The
history of the present Unconstitutional Socialist Democracy form of
Government in these United States is a history of repeated injuries and
usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute
Tyranny over the Saints of God. To declare this, let Facts be submitted to
God and a candid world, of the history and/or current injustices.

They have from the very beginning, in violation of their own
Constitution, Outlawed sacred Principles, Ordinances, and Commandments
that are fundamental to our Religion, and have denied us our God given
Rights, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

They have historically forbidden representation and have failed
to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance. They have utterly
neglected to attend to any regresses wronged us by their citizens or
our enemies among them.

They have refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of
large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish living
their Religion, being denied the right of Representation in the State
Legislature and Congressional bodies, a right inestimable to them and
formidable to tyrants only.

They have called together legislative bodies at places
inaccessible, uncomfortable, and distant from those who would live
Gods laws, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with
their measures.

They have dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for
opposing with manly firmness their invasions on the rights of the
people.

We have for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others
to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of
Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise;
the Saints remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of
invasion from without, and convulsions within.

They have endeavored to prevent the population of these Saints;
for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of
Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration
hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

They have obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing
their Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

They have made Judges dependent on their Will alone, for the
tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

They have through Judicial Rulings, violated the Laws of God,
brought the sin of Shedding of Innocent Blood upon us, by the
Murdering of the Unborn.

They have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither
swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

They have kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies,
without the Lawful Consent of the People.

They have affected to render the Military independent of and
superior to the Civil power.

They are planning to combine us with other nations to subject us
to a jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by
our laws; giving their Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation,
for quartering large bodies of armed troops among us.

For abolishing the free System of English Common Laws with Roman
Civil Law, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging
its Authorities so as to render it at once an example and fit
instrument for introducing the same absolute rule unto the People:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable
Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments;
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for
any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of the
Saints;
For cutting off our Free Trade with them, among ourselves,
and all parts of the world;
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent and were
unconstitutional from their inception;
For depriving us continually, of the benefits of
constitutional Common Law Courts, with Trials by Juries of our
peers;
For transporting us to jail, to be tried for pretended
offenses, that have color of Law, without constitutional footing;
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring
themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases
whatsoever.

They have abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of order
with the Constitutional Laws of the Land when we have not been and
have failed to extend the Protection they are sworn to provide, and
have and are waging War against us.

They have plundered our resources, ravaged our lands and
properties, and destroyed the lives of our people.

They are at this time preparing to transport large Armies of
foreign Multi-national forces to complete the works of death,
desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty
and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and
totally unworthy of the Head of a civilized nation.

They have constrained the Saints at times to bear Arms against
other Sons and Daughters of God, to become the executioners of their
friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

They have excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and have
endeavored to bring on the inhabitants like merciless Savages, whose
rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes
and conditions.

We have stated these Oppressions, We have Petitioned for Redress in
the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by
repeated injury. A Government, whose character is thus marked by every act
which may define Tyranny, is unfit to be the rulers of a free people. Nor
have We been wanting in attentions to our American brethren. We have warned
them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an
unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the
circumstances of our emigration and settlement of our forefathers here. We
have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured
them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which,
would inevitably interrupt our commonality and relations. They too have
been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore,
acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them,
as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, Therefore, the Representatives of the Kingdom of ZION, in Solemn
Assembly, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the rectitude of
our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the Saints of God,
solemnly publish and declare, That these Saints are, and of Right ought to
be Free and Independent People; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance
to the current United States of America Governments, and that all political
connection between them and the Kingdom of ZION, is and ought to be totally
dissolved; and that as a Free and Independent People, they have full Power
to enact Laws, maintain Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and
to do all other Acts and Things which Independent Peoples have of right to
do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the
protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our
Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

* * *
Copyrighted by Kingdom of ZION (KoZ) ver 2/95, 1995-2003

[NoGreaterLove]

I think the problem arises when we get into the gray area of interpretation of laws as being immoral. Some things are black and white such as Heir describes. Of course we would not obey such a law if one were imposed upon us. Those are easy. Where the problem lies is such things as taxes, freedom of speech, right to bear arms, etc.. Too many begin to say these laws are unconstitutional and become there own law or a law unto themselves, setting their own boundaries and justifying it using the D&C. Our modern day prophets have taught us this is not correct as shown in the conference talk I posted which is sanctioned by the prophet before it is presented at conference.

[Mahonri]

as shown in the conference talk I posted which is sanctioned by the prophet before it is presented at conference.

wonder why they edit them afterwords then? The Prophet sanctioned it wrongly before hand, but then fixed afterwords. Oh crud, what about those that don't have an opportunity to study it afterwords? The sanctioned talk they heard is going to lead them astray, but the Prophet can't lead them astray. Oh man, this is so confusing.

[Original_Intent]

as shown in the conference talk I posted which is sanctioned by the prophet before it is presented at conference.

wonder why they edit them afterwords then? The Prophet sanctioned it wrongly before hand, but then fixed afterwords. Oh crud, what about those that don't have an opportunity to study it afterwords? The sanctioned talk they heard is going to lead them astray, but the Prophet can't lead them astray. Oh man, this is so confusing.

Yeah there should be some entity or something that can help us thru all this confusion...

or what about poeple who are aware of a previous statement but for some reason missed a more recent statement - guess they are hosed...

[superslob]

Hello original intent,

>>>Yeah there should be some entity or something that can help us thru all this confusion...

or what about poeple who are aware of a previous statement but for some reason missed a more recent statement - guess they are hosed...<<<

In the B of M Lehi (who was a prophet) had a dream which was later interpreted to Nephi by an angel. The people were attempting to find there way to heaven but there was a fog. Luckily there was a rod of iron there which was later interpreted as the word of God. This word of God would naturally have consisted of the Mosaic writings plus some of the OT prophets. Some people grabbed this rod and were able to find there way to the spacious building (heaven) but many people let go of this rod and couldn't find there way and were lost. It should be noted here that even though lehi was a prophet the dream didn't say to cling to what lehi said but rather to the original writings of Moses.

[HeirofNumenor]

Hello original intent,

>>>Yeah there should be some entity or something that can help us thru all this confusion...

or what about poeple who are aware of a previous statement but for some reason missed a more recent statement - guess they are hosed...<<<

In the B of M Lehi (who was a prophet) had a dream which was later interpreted to Nephi by an angel. The people were attempting to find there way to heaven but there was a fog. Luckily there was a rod of iron there which was later interpreted as the word of God. This word of God would naturally have consisted of the Mosaic writings plus some of the OT prophets. Some people grabbed this rod and were able to find there way to the spacious building (heaven) but many people let go of this rod and couldn't find there way and were lost. It should be noted here that even though lehi was a prophet the dream didn't say to cling to what lehi said but rather to the original writings of Moses.

Or rather whatever the scriptures/teachings of the prophets were (much more than the 5 books of Moses that the Jews have clung to every since 134 AD when the Romans expelled them for good).

[Kingdom of ZION]

Hello original intent,

>>>Yeah there should be some entity or something that can help us thru all this confusion...

or what about poeple who are aware of a previous statement but for some reason missed a more recent statement - guess they are hosed...<<<

In the B of M Lehi (who was a prophet) had a dream which was later interpreted to Nephi by an angel. The people were attempting to find there way to heaven but there was a fog. Luckily there was a rod of iron there which was later interpreted as the word of God. This word of God would naturally have consisted of the Mosaic writings plus some of the OT prophets. Some people grabbed this rod and were able to find there way to the spacious building (heaven) but many people let go of this rod and couldn't find there way and were lost. It should be noted here that even though lehi was a prophet the dream didn't say to cling to what lehi said but rather to the original writings of Moses.

Very good point taken. We in this day should not look beyond Dispensation Presidents of the past. Yes there are greater and lessor Prophets, but Dispensation Kings (Presidents) are more than just greater Prophets, they are Archangels. Some will say that this is just old Jewish traditions and generally referred to in none canonized references, but what and who they are has been manifested from the foundations of this world and their writings [or words and deeds written about them) stand out as the foundations of all Gospel doctrines and principles.

[Amore Vero]

.

[superslob]

Hello amore vero,

I think the HS will help us determine what laws are immoral. As far as his/her involvement in the constitution I frankly don't see it. There was another thread on here somewhere which mentioned that within the church there is supposed to be a vote on stuff before it is accepted by the church. If the HS doesn't care if the church constitution is followed I don't think he/she will care if the constitution is followed.

[Amore Vero]

.

[SteveMartin]

I think the American constitution and the American law is one of the best in world.So i will say that the people must have to follow with obedience without any excuse.