The man in the arena makes the difference, not the talker

[Samuel the Lamanite]

THE MAN IN THE ARENA by Teddy Roosevelt
Excerpt from the speech "Citizenship In A Republic", delivered at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France on 23 April, 1910 - download PDF

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

IMO, this applies to many here. I hear criticism upon criticism about Ron Paul and Mitt Romney but I don't see anyone who lists what they've personally done action wise in the arena. I certainly have been critical of Romney but to his everlasting credit, he has placed himself in the arena and be quite attacked by his critics. The same with Ron Paul especially by two or three Saints who claim he has NOTHING.

Over the months I've been here on LDSFF, I have shared the many ways I have been in the arena over the past 40 years trying to show I have "arena credentials." For listing these things, I've been accused of "blowing my own horn."

When I've challenged the many critics to show us what they've done other than talking, I hear the answer (1) it's none of my business and (2) I don't want to toot my own horn. To me this are simply rationalizations and deflections from the probable fact that liitle if anything has been done in the arena.

In James it talks about faith and acts. Bottom line, I'll show you my faith BY MY ACTS. IMO, this applies to the arena.

[Vision]

Sam are you needing a hug? Heres a virtual hug from me. :ymhug:

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Vision: Thanks for the hug. I can always an extra one.

Please undertsand that for over 40 years, I've been fighting the battle for liberty, not just talking a good game. What troubles me greatly is seeing a great of talk, complaints, and stutting around but ask someone to actual give money and even more important time, suddenly there is silence. I'm 70 and don't have many years left or energy to continue the battle. Seeing the coming forth of the Tea Party movement is so refreshing and gives me hope in the younger generations.

Concerning Mormons, I get very discouraged to see so few walk the walk. Where much is given/known, much is expected. Can you imagine the power that would occur if even 20% of the Mormon Priesthood stood up to be counted for liberty in action, not just platitudes? Then there are some who simply don't try because there is no hope anyway. My answer to that is "With God all things are possible.

[Amore Vero]

Thank goodness there are a few men (& women) like you left Samuel. Who, like Moroni, are willing to get into the arena & fight for liberty. For it is a fight & those who stand on the sidelines are actually on the Adversary's side.

For the Adversary doesn't care if we don't actively fight for 'his' side, though he will enjoy that too, but he just doesn't want us to do anything to help the 'good' side. For he is a sure win if good men & women will just do nothing.

Repentance & Education are key to be able to enter the arena & make sure we are fighting for the right side. For it seems most LDS people are being deceived to think they are fighting for the right side, when they are actually supporting the Adversary's side.

We must be sure about the side we are really on & that takes education (knowledge) & the Spirit to discern, truth from error, right from wrong, & devils from saints.

[John Locke]

I don't see a need to share my personal contributions with anyone...if someone wants to see what I've done I have provided enough of my personal information it would be easy to find out. I don't seek the praise of men..maybe thats just me.

Oh and I guess i'm one of the those 2 or 3 saints who think Ron Paul is not the right guy for the job

[Samuel the Lamanite]

John: I happen to like Governor Gary Johnson better. What are your thoughts?

Please show me a link to where I can see your actual poilitcal giving and activities. I will give it a deep look especially given the namesake you use. Send me the link in a PM. OK?

Bottom line: Every job in life requires a resume. Without it and verification, a company/university can be snookered. I could tell you some real horror stories I know of personally.

IMO, to claim political activity without a "resume" is simply blowing smoke and an paranoid unwillingness to be transparent which is typical of those who say something that they've done when it is simply a "lie." IF you sought any type of major volunteer position or paid position in a significant political campaign, you would be REQUIRED to provide a "resume."

I just don't understand this.

[Original_Intent]

Sam, in my opinion this really comes across as wnating to engage in a pissing contest. I'll stand before the judgeement bar some day as will you. I will drop a few things that I have done but mostly to contrast between them, not to compare resumes with you.

I have run for state legislature on a third party and gotten better than 10% of the vote.
I have contributed WAY more than I could afford to good candidates.
I have been a county chairman of a political party.
I have sat on a national party committee, and been involved in the very nitty gritty details of a third party going from a state party to a national party.
I have spent quite a few hours working on Ron Paul's presidential campaign in 07-08 (sign making, distributing fliers, etc.
Manned booths at gun shows distributing literature for the JBS.
Gone door to door selling copies of "An Enemy Hath Done This" at my cost, have organized firesides for liberty speakers to come. (Did a stake wide fireside with Hans V. Anderson Jr., which he said was by far the best attended fireside he had ever spoken at.)

That's not an exhaustive list, but a sampling. The thing is, I think that you seem to put things like running for office as Great Accomplishments that require a lot of sacrifice. In my opinion, that type of thing is EASY compared to things like manning the booth at the gun show several times, knocking on doors trying to wake people up, the financial contributions from my VERY modest income. The "big things" that I did, those were easy and even enjoyable, in my opinion the real "fighting in the arena" are those who fight in the trenches, with little or no recognition - and just sacrifice their time, effort and money trying to do good. And in that regard I agree with John Locke - this just seems to be a "look at me and all I have done" pissing contest...if you feel the need to be recognized and applauded for all you have done, "behold, you have your reward."

The fact that you keep returning to this "man in the arena" theme - always with the attitude that you have been one such and wanting to entice others to do the same - as if you are wanting to pass judgement on their efforts or be some kind of Grand Poobah - sorry, it doesn;'t sit well with me, it does indeed come across as narcissism and posturing.

That may not be how it is intended, but that is how it is perceived by me, and from some of the comments I am not alone. If you have indeed done the unrecognized fighting in the trenches, then I DO appreciate you and all that you have done - I jsut don't understand this unseemly need for recognition and attention.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

OT: I think it is great that you are a doer/walker. The reason I mention the importance of running for office is that this is exactly what GA letters read from the GAs at the pulpit have asked repeatedly, with emphasis on state and local races. When I ran for NC Governor, I was the ONLY Saint running in my Stake. Am I wrong in simply repeating what the Prophets have said?

Yes, the grunt work is absolutley necessary in many areas as you've so well stated. Most of my activity has been behind the scenes helping others to win elections. I know from your actual political experience that you listed that it is just a few who actually step up and stand in the public arena. I thought you were likey one of the walkers before you confirmed it in your post.

This is NOT a pissing contest. It is an attempt at "outing" who the talkers are who criticize and snipe at the walkers. To win this liberty battle, we need to know who we truly can count on. Past behavior can be somewhat predictive of who we can count on.

OBVIOULSY I WOULD WANT YOU COVERING MY BACK (SIXES) IN ANY BATTLE. I HOPE YOU WOULD KNOW THAT I WOULD COVER YOUR BACK EVEN TO THE DEATH IF NECESSARY.

Sorry I came across as trying for a pissing contest

[Original_Intent]

and I am sorry that I once again reverted to being unkind to you. I do not know if you have ever read a book called "The Color Code" but if you have I am a dominant White personality with a strong blue element. I probably come across as more of a red on the forums, but it is not true. I hate "tooting my own horn" and although I appreciate others tooting my horn (feeling appreciated) there is also a large degree of discomfort. One reason I make a lousy candidate for office is I have a HARD time comparing myself favorably to someone else. There are different personalities that excel different things. I think that rather than running for office, an even better option is to seek out local constitutional scholars who would never dream of running themselves and recruiting them to run - one of the biggest problems we have, I think, is that most people that "throw their hat" in the ring are exactly the wrong types to hold office.

So again I am truly sorry for my response. When I see someone "tooting their own horn" or repeating their resume - it just seems like an attempt to "recruit followers" - it doesn't feel right = but in your case it appears I was assigning motives that I should not have.

[tmac]

Sam, this is another headscratcher that could very well turn into another LDSFF classic. When I first read your OP, I found it so alienating that I quickly typed a response. But then I sat on it and thought about it for awhile. After further reflection, I concluded that the reason it bothered me wasn't that I don't agree 100% with your conclusion that most people are talkers not walkers, and that it is the acts, actions, and fruits that really count, and that is something I often think and say myself, and find frustrating just like you do. What bothered me was the angle and approach you have taken -- basically a pious, holier than thou approach, putting everyone else down while at the same time trying to elevate yourself. When I saw Vision’s post asking you if you needed a hug, it seemed to hit the nail on the head, so at the time I decided not to join the fray. But at this point I will have to say that I find your approach to getting this message across fairly disturbing. And I know you think I'm just try to pick on you, but what I'm really trying to do, Sam, is get you to take a few steps back, take a look at your approach, and see how it comes across. In the end, though, you always seem to emerge from these discussions very bloody, but completely unbowed.

I was interested to see OI’s & JL’s reactions. Mine is much the same. Sam, you may be the greatest man in the world, but your approach is very hard to swallow. Not only would I call your tactics ("I have 'arena credentials'," . . . having been in the arena the past 40 years), tooting your own horn, but where I come from, we call it picking a fight -- pissing match also fits the bill. Once again, Sam, you're going way out of your way to make yourself the message . . . you're making the messenger the message. Another interesting thing about your approach is that you're not really interested in opposing opinions and voices. You only want to hear what validates your position. Consequently, you have "foed" me and others to block our posts, so you won't even need to be troubled by the sincere opinions of others who may even agree with your in principle and practice, but completely disagree with your approach. Like OI says, your approach doesn't pass the gut test. There's nothing about it that feels right. It’s very off-putting. Braggadocios is the best word that I can find to describe it.

The only conclusion I can draw from all your posts in this thread, Sam, is that you desperately want to be validated and want to be crowned the greatest Mormon gladiator in the arena. Frankly, I don’t get it. To me if feels like it has everything to do with trying to elevate yourself above everyone else – including acting like you have some kind of entitlement to act as judge and jury of everyone else’s “resume.”

And the hidden beauty of your approach in blocking the posts of everyone you don't like and don't want to see and acknowledge their opposing positions, is that we don't need to worry about getting into another long, drawn-out pissing match. That gives you an opportunity to continue to live in a state of complete denial. Although you'll inevitably come away plenty bloody, because you refuse to see the blood, you'll undoubtedly emerge completely unbowed -- viewing yourself as both a great gladiator in the arena . . . and a victim . . . simply because others stepped into the arena to tangle with you -- which is why I thought you stepped into the arena in the first place. But in the end, to me you come across as Goliath -- challenging others to face-off with you, but at the same time roaring around trying to do everything in your power to scare them off.

All I can say, and I’ve said it before, is that I know my fair share of “walkers,” and I consider myself to be one, and I don’t think you’ll find many of them jumping in line to follow your approach. Most such gladiators lead a pretty lonely, solitary existence -- if that is what you want.

FWIW

[Jason]

Braggadocios....yeppers....did a search on that one.....that's a first for the forum.

[sixth seal]

Sam, this is another headscratcher that could very well turn into another LDSFF classic. When I first read your OP, I found it so off-putting that I quickly typed a response. But then I sat on it and thought about it for awhile. After further reflection, I concluded that I agree 100% with your conclusion that most people are talkers not walkers, and that it is the acts, actions, and fruits that really count, and that is something I often think and say myself, and find frustrating just like you do. When I saw Vision’s post asking you if you needed a hug, it seemed to hit the nail on the head, so I decided not to join the fray. But at this point I will have to say that I find your approach to getting this message across very alienating.

I was interested to see OI’s & JL’s reactions. Mine is much the same. Sam, you may be the greatest man in the world, but your approach is very hard to swallow. Not only would I call your tactics ("I have 'arena credentials'," . . . having been in the arena the past 40 years), tooting your own horn, but where I come from, we call it picking a fight -- pissing match also fits the bill. Once again, Sam, you're going way out of your way to make yourself the message . . . you're making the messenger the message. The great thing about this discussion, though, is that because you have also "foed" me and blocked my posts, you won't even see my responses. But based on your OP, and the discussions we've had, both publicly on this forum, and privately, via PM, Sam, it's pretty obvious that to a some extent you're attempting to direct this threat straight at me -- like you’ve tried to do before. And like OI says, it doesn’t feel right at all to me. It’s very off-putting. Braggadocios is the best word that I can find to describe it.

But since you want to call everyone out, and claim to have spent 40+ years making a difference "in the arena," whether it be in politics, or in private sector business, and you like to talk about it, I’m going to call you out, and challenge you to tell us exactly what public office(s) you have held, what law(s) you have actually changed, what law(s) you have ever actually voted on, and what public policy decision(s) you have actually made in the public sector "arena." Same thing in the private sector, please tell us exactly what companies and/or industries you have captained, and what you have done/accomplished in the private sector arena. Instead of tell about all the time you have spent in the arena, please show us. I agree with you 100% that it is the acts and actions that really count -- "By their fruits ye shall know them." So, please show us your fruits. Bring them to the table and let us look at them, so that we can judge for ourselves.

I don't have any qualm making this challenge because although I have told you before that I'm not going to be drawn into a "greatest gladiator in the arena" contest with you, I will let it suffice to say that I have spent my entire adult life as an entrepreneur and a private sector businessman, doing it instead of talking about it, and taking the full brunt of political and market forces and challenges on the chin in the private sector. In the process, I have also held public office several times -- both executive and legislative positions -- and at the levels that I consider to be the very most important. I have had the experience of making/changing law, and making public policy decisions. I have also run successful referendums, and successfully worked behind the scenes to change whole legislative councils, as well as hold a long list of office holders accountable for their actions. I have also gone nose to nose with the federal government, including the DOJ and the FBI. A lot of people talk and joke about the black helicopters, but I don't joke. I've had them at my house -- more than once. I have been involved in many political campaigns, and fought plenty of tense political battles. In fact, I'm heading to another one this evening. But I feel no need to share the details with you. Those who know me and whose opinions I really care about know what I do and what I have done. I don’t feel any need to brag or to compare my “resume” with yours. I am very content and secure within myself about what I have done thus far.

The only conclusion I can draw from all your posts in this thread, Sam, is that you desperately want to be validated and want to be crowned the greatest Mormon gladiator in the arena. Frankly, I don’t get it. I don’t think it has anything to do with calling others out. To me if feels like it has everything to do with trying to elevate yourself above everyone else – including acting like you have some kind of entitlement to act as judge and jury of everyone else’s “resume.”

All I can say, and I’ve said it before, is that I know my fair share of “walkers,” and I don’t think you’ll find many of them jumping in line to follow your approach.

FWIW -- again, the beauty is that since you’ve blocked my posts I won’t need to worry about getting into another long, drawn-out pissing match.

Would you be willing to talk about the black helicopters and what they wanted with you?

[shadow]

The only conclusion I can draw from all your posts in this thread, Sam, is that you desperately want to be validated and want to be crowned the greatest Mormon gladiator in the arena. Frankly, I don’t get it. I don’t think it has anything to do with calling others out. To me if feels like it has everything to do with trying to elevate yourself above everyone else – including acting like you have some kind of entitlement to act as judge and jury of everyone else’s “resume.”

I hope this helps you "get it". I'm foe'd too so hopefully we won't hear the denial which always comes with this disorder...
fwiw-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_8lE6IfZm8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Samuel the Lamanite]

OI: I think over the past few weeks we've gottenb to know each other better. I 100% accept your apology.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

6th Seal: I don't know whether to thank you for posting TMAC's extreme criticism of me and my "tactics" but I now KNOW 100% that I was quite right in blocking his posts. How sad.

[Mark]

The only conclusion I can draw from all your posts in this thread, Sam, is that you desperately want to be validated and want to be crowned the greatest Mormon gladiator in the arena. Frankly, I don’t get it. I don’t think it has anything to do with calling others out. To me if feels like it has everything to do with trying to elevate yourself above everyone else – including acting like you have some kind of entitlement to act as judge and jury of everyone else’s “resume.”

I hope this helps you "get it". I'm foe'd too so hopefully we won't hear the denial which always comes with this disorder...
fwiw-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_8lE6IfZm8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There you go again projecting Sigmund. Are you THAT jealous of me because of my rugged good looks or is it just that I live in paradise? Get over it! Somes got it and somes don't.

[tmac]

I hope this helps you "get it". I'm foe'd too so hopefully we won't hear the denial which always comes with this disorder...
fwiw-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_8lE6IfZm8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, Shadow, thanks. Best explanation I've seen yet. Seems to really hit the nail on the head. Nutshell summary:

. . . While these kinds of people tend to spend a lot of time tooting their own horn, one of the reasons they have so many problems with others, and why other people often tend to dislike them so intensely is not so much that they are constantly bragging about themselves, which does tend to get irritating, but implied in all that bragging is a thinly veiled devaluation of whatever it is that everyone else is doing. So, it’s not only an attitude of “I’m so great”, but also the implied “. . . and you’re not,” which tends to upset people, and make a person not very popular. . . .

Sound familiar?

[tmac]

Sixth Seal wrote:
Would you be willing to talk about the black helicopters and what they wanted with you?

What is the nature of your interest?

[sixth seal]

Sixth Seal wrote:
Would you be willing to talk about the black helicopters and what they wanted with you?

What is the nature of your interest?

Nothing specific. It just peaked my curiosity to hear you mention the black helicopters. I was wondering if it's something you still have to deal with.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Black helicopters are in the SCs arena of action. What if anything can we do to deal with them in the arena of liberty?

[tmac]

I was wondering if it's something you still have to deal with.

On our end, dealing with it involves the fact that we've got a small ranching operation that is quite secluded, except from the air. And the black helicopters seem to like to keep an eye on it. Its in a place that they have no other reason to be there. It started a few years ago when we were doing some building . . . of what some might consider to be a compound, that could not really be seen or accessed any other way. They typically show up out of nowhere, emerging very low from a nearby canyon, come right to our place, make a few low, close passes, and leave the way they came. In terms of if it is something we still have to deal with, we had another such "visit" in just the past week. Do I have all the answers about what's going on? I wish I did.

[Mark]

I was wondering if it's something you still have to deal with.

On our end, dealing with it involves the fact that we've got a small ranching operation that is quite secluded, except from the air. And the black helicopters seem to like to keep an eye on it. Its in a place that they have no other reason to be there. It started a few years ago when we were doing some building . . . of what some might consider to be a compound, that could not really be seen or accessed any other way. They typically show up out of nowhere, emerging very low from a nearby canyon, come right to our place, make a few low, close passes, and leave the way they came. In terms of if it is something we still have to deal with, we had another such "visit" in just the past week. Do I have all the answers about what's going on? I wish I did.

Just tell me where your property is and I'll have the boys back off. (for now) :ymdevil:

[EmmaLee]

I was wondering if it's something you still have to deal with.

On our end, dealing with it involves the fact that we've got a small ranching operation that is quite secluded, except from the air. And the black helicopters seem to like to keep an eye on it. Its in a place that they have no other reason to be there. It started a few years ago when we were doing some building . . . of what some might consider to be a compound, that could not really be seen or accessed any other way. They typically show up out of nowhere, emerging very low from a nearby canyon, come right to our place, make a few low, close passes, and leave the way they came. In terms of if it is something we still have to deal with, we had another such "visit" in just the past week. Do I have all the answers about what's going on? I wish I did.

Dang, tmac; that's seriously creepy, but not totally surprising, given who is running things... Have you ever recorded them on video? Do they know you are watching them, or do you all stay out of sight when they're around?

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Stella: I too wish to know what TMAC and family does. Are you doing anything suspicious and/or dangerous to the SCs that would cause the Black Heliocopter people to return over and over again

[Mark]

Stella: I too wish to know what TMAC and family does. Are you doing anything suspicious and/or dangerous to the SCs that would cause the Black Heliocopter people to return over and over again

On second thought don't tell us anything tmac. You may then have to kill us. :-ss