Are Ron Paul and Gary Juhnson wrong on drugs?

[Teancum-Old]

Started a new thread to moved this discussion about the status of the Constitution today and what we should (or should not) be doing about it now.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 19&t=18453

[Original_Intent]

I have felt for some time that as far as the nation is concerned it will be dead, and will only be kept alive by a group committed to its principles in the Rocky Mountains...I think there are many groups, primarily but not exclusively LDS - that are going to keep those principles even as the nation collapses. That is why I think that the rest of the nation will find us "bearing it on our shoulders" and I also think that is why anyone who doesn;t wish to fight his brother will have to flee to Zion.

I think there are pretty large groups in Utah, Idaho and Montana that will be involved, and possibly Wyoming and others as well.

It may come to a point of secession - possibly not formally, but again I feel there is a group that will just start living as "separatists" under their own system and will pretty much ignore the federal government - and the federal government is either going to have its hands too full to "deal with them", or the federal government itself will be in complete chaos/nonexistent.

At any rate, I think the Constitution hanging by a thread doesn't mean it will survive in our current government, in fact, Ia gree with Jason - in THAT regard it is already dead. I think the "thread" are the people who remember the principles, believe in them and teach them to their children (and anyone else that will listen.)

Even THAT thread is getting pretty frayed...I would be surprised if 1 in 1000 LDS truly support "full on" constitutional government. I'm pretty awake, and I have been suckered into "partaking of the spoils" of the gadiantons from time to time.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

OI: You must know something I don't know about the Rocky Mountain Groups. I know there are some BUT NONE as far as I've been able to locate are headed and run by LDS.

[wiser2]

I am not that familiar with Paul and Johnson's position on drugs. I am familiar with our people's position on the Declaration of Independence and our pledge to the US flag - we say it but don't believe it. Both require "justice and liberty" for all people, under God.

The right support a strong border, oppression of immigrants, government permission and control to work (e-verify), etc. while the left support the murder of babies, the disarmament of the people, the seizure of the people's property as taxation, high expenditure of government resources, etc. Both highly support "big government" in that they want laws that control the people more rather than controlling the government, for the purpose of furthering their own agenda. And, most importantly, neither support morality, liberty, nor the rule of law, especially under God.

Which leads us to 3 Nephi 20, where Jesus Christ warns us that if we, as a people who scattered His people, do not repent for having scattered them, that we will be like sheep with a lion amongst us. I currently believe that this is being implemented by our use of drugs - as a people having abandoned God, we are left with a need to fill, which leads to our seeking to use drugs. Because drugs are illegal/controlled, the drug demand is causing massive amounts of resources to become available to the drug industry, artificially inflating the value of drugs. I do not believe that many drugs cross our borders without making officials in our government more wealthy (ie. the officials likely take money to allow the drugs to flow). Our people's loss of the resources and the accompanying gain by the drug cartels seriously threatens our nation's stability. Because, 1) many of our people are voluntarily supporting the drug industry, and 2) the resources being given the drug industry can be/are used to oppress us.

Clearly the best solution to this problem is for us as a people, or even as individuals, to turn to God, embracing His principles of justice and liberty for all people. I don't see that happening as I could not name a single person that really stands for that today. So, lacking support for justice and God, much of the power being provided to the drug industry could be deflated by stopping the artificial inflation of the value of drugs by lowering the controls against them (making them more legal). This would then cause the drug industry to look much less lucrative, attracting less participants to the industry.

Since drugs are highly addictive, acting like bear traps, to actually serve its purpose, the "legalization" of drugs would need to be done very carefully, looking for the point of equilibrium where the gains of attracting less participation in the industry are not overcome by those becoming more addicted. I am not confident that our government can accomplish that task any better than it supports our liberty. But, I do see the potential for making things better by easing the control of drugs.

In addition, the law prohibits the federal government from generally controlling drugs. So it would be a step toward the rule of law.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Wiser: A very sound economic analysis. Glad to have you posting on this thread. Please do more.

[InfoWarrior82]

I am not that familiar with Paul and Johnson's position on drugs. I am familiar with our people's position on the Declaration of Independence and our pledge to the US flag - we say it but don't believe it. Both require "justice and liberty" for all people, under God.

The right support a strong border, oppression of immigrants, government permission and control to work (e-verify), etc. while the left support the murder of babies, the disarmament of the people, the seizure of the people's property as taxation, high expenditure of government resources, etc. Both highly support "big government" in that they want laws that control the people more rather than controlling the government, for the purpose of furthering their own agenda. And, most importantly, neither support morality, liberty, nor the rule of law, especially under God.

Which leads us to 3 Nephi 20, where Jesus Christ warns us that if we, as a people who scattered His people, do not repent for having scattered them, that we will be like sheep with a lion amongst us. I currently believe that this is being implemented by our use of drugs - as a people having abandoned God, we are left with a need to fill, which leads to our seeking to use drugs. Because drugs are illegal/controlled, the drug demand is causing massive amounts of resources to become available to the drug industry, artificially inflating the value of drugs. I do not believe that many drugs cross our borders without making officials in our government more wealthy (ie. the officials likely take money to allow the drugs to flow). Our people's loss of the resources and the accompanying gain by the drug cartels seriously threatens our nation's stability. Because, 1) many of our people are voluntarily supporting the drug industry, and 2) the resources being given the drug industry can be/are used to oppress us.

Clearly the best solution to this problem is for us as a people, or even as individuals, to turn to God, embracing His principles of justice and liberty for all people. I don't see that happening as I could not name a single person that really stands for that today. So, lacking support for justice and God, much of the power being provided to the drug industry could be deflated by stopping the artificial inflation of the value of drugs by lowering the controls against them (making them more legal). This would then cause the drug industry to look much less lucrative, attracting less participants to the industry.

Since drugs are highly addictive, acting like bear traps, to actually serve its purpose, the "legalization" of drugs would need to be done very carefully, looking for the point of equilibrium where the gains of attracting less participation in the industry are not overcome by those becoming more addicted. I am not confident that our government can accomplish that task any better than it supports our liberty. But, I do see the potential for making things better by easing the control of drugs.

In addition, the law prohibits the federal government from generally controlling drugs. So it would be a step toward the rule of law.

Aww c'mon! Don't you know the reason why they support this legislation is because they just LOVE using drugs themselves!? Ugh! People are so ignorant sometimes! *sarcasm*

[Jason]

I am not that familiar with Paul and Johnson's position on drugs. I am familiar with our people's position on the Declaration of Independence and our pledge to the US flag - we say it but don't believe it. Both require "justice and liberty" for all people, under God.

The right support a strong border, oppression of immigrants, government permission and control to work (e-verify), etc. while the left support the murder of babies, the disarmament of the people, the seizure of the people's property as taxation, high expenditure of government resources, etc. Both highly support "big government" in that they want laws that control the people more rather than controlling the government, for the purpose of furthering their own agenda. And, most importantly, neither support morality, liberty, nor the rule of law, especially under God.

Which leads us to 3 Nephi 20, where Jesus Christ warns us that if we, as a people who scattered His people, do not repent for having scattered them, that we will be like sheep with a lion amongst us. I currently believe that this is being implemented by our use of drugs - as a people having abandoned God, we are left with a need to fill, which leads to our seeking to use drugs. Because drugs are illegal/controlled, the drug demand is causing massive amounts of resources to become available to the drug industry, artificially inflating the value of drugs. I do not believe that many drugs cross our borders without making officials in our government more wealthy (ie. the officials likely take money to allow the drugs to flow). Our people's loss of the resources and the accompanying gain by the drug cartels seriously threatens our nation's stability. Because, 1) many of our people are voluntarily supporting the drug industry, and 2) the resources being given the drug industry can be/are used to oppress us.

Clearly the best solution to this problem is for us as a people, or even as individuals, to turn to God, embracing His principles of justice and liberty for all people. I don't see that happening as I could not name a single person that really stands for that today. So, lacking support for justice and God, much of the power being provided to the drug industry could be deflated by stopping the artificial inflation of the value of drugs by lowering the controls against them (making them more legal). This would then cause the drug industry to look much less lucrative, attracting less participants to the industry.

Since drugs are highly addictive, acting like bear traps, to actually serve its purpose, the "legalization" of drugs would need to be done very carefully, looking for the point of equilibrium where the gains of attracting less participation in the industry are not overcome by those becoming more addicted. I am not confident that our government can accomplish that task any better than it supports our liberty. But, I do see the potential for making things better by easing the control of drugs.

In addition, the law prohibits the federal government from generally controlling drugs. So it would be a step toward the rule of law.

Aww c'mon! Don't you know the reason why they support this legislation is because they just LOVE using drugs themselves!? Ugh! People are so ignorant sometimes! *sarcasm*

....there is a very large demographic of drug users out there. I could go off on multiple tangents here....everything from in-house surveys that found that 75% of a Marine Corps enlisted unit (100+ Marines) had done one drug or another over a 30 day period.....to executives from In-N-Out smoking pot at a party. Unless people have exposure to it.....they are very ignorant of the situation on the street.

This is part of Ron Paul's strategy to attract the younger generation....along with the pro-gay stance and other such efforts.....that ultimately culminate in his basic stance of defiance against authority (complete self government) which is very attractive to a wicked people....especially the rising generations.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Jason; You should be happy because you convinced me that both Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are evil men actually helping Satan work out his plans. Than you for saving me. :-ss