Ron Paul - What has he accomplished?

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

...extremely fascinating Joel Skousen presentation here. Thank you 7cyclon7 for posting this on another thread. I am reposting it here for those interested who might have missed it.

To view it full screen, use this link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 354412946#

People should watch the whole thing, but here are some excerpts on WWIII and why we should support Ron Paul. I guess according to Semp, RP has swindled people like Joel Skousen and Alex Jones. I'm glad we've got people like Semp and Jason on these forums who expose RP for the phony he is. Joel Skousen has spent his whole life studying constitutional principles and secret combinations, yet he was conned into supporting Ron Paul.

Debate the merits of Semps and Jasons arguments 7. Don't just compare intellects here. Alex Jones and Joel Skousen are not all knowing or beyond reproach. They can be conned or misled just like anyone can.

[iamse7encaptain of 1,000]

I have debated too many times on many other threads. No thanks. Joel Skousen doesn't know all nor claims to, but he does have great credibility in my book, and he also knows RP personally. In the video, he says why RP is so important - and all that he has/will accomplish for the liberty movement. I think his argument is a lot stronger than Jason's or Semp's. Everyone has their own opinions and I completely disagree with them as has been stated many times before.

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

I have debated too many times on many other threads. No thanks. Joel Skousen doesn't know all nor claims to, but he does have great credibility in my book, and he also knows RP personally. In the video, he says why RP is so important - and all that he has/will accomplish for the liberty movement. I think his argument is a lot stronger than Jason's or Semp's. Everyone has their own opinions and I completely disagree with them as has been stated many times before.

Having spoken personally to Skousen some years back He thinks he knows more than most of the Brethren when it comes to the actions and plans of govt combinations and conspiracies. Just ask him.

[HeirofNumenorthe Heir Of Numenor]

Judging from Joel's World Affair Brief of Ap[ril 22,2011, which someone posted here: http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18030&p=207928&hilit=Mormon+Church+Criticized+for+Hypocrisy#p207928 - well....this is one of the issues that I have with Joel....that sometimes he tends to think/write that his knowledge and viewpoint trumps any other course that Church leadership will take. As I have said many times before...what God wants done is what we follow, Constitution & 12th Article of Faith aside (preserve the Union, end slavery, oppose gay marriage, illegal immigration statement, etc.).

Normally thought, I agree with his analysis - at least as one very plausible pattern/possibility.

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

Judging from Joel's World Affair Brief of Ap[ril 22,2011, which someone posted here: http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18030&p=207928&hilit=Mormon+Church+Criticized+for+Hypocrisy#p207928 - well....this is one of the issues that I have with Joel....that sometimes he tends to think/write that his knowledge and viewpoint trumps any other course that Church leadership will take. As I have said many times before...what God wants done is what we follow, Constitution & 12th Article of Faith aside (preserve the Union, end slavery, oppose gay marriage, illegal immigration statement, etc.).

Normally thought, I agree with his analysis - at least as one very plausible pattern/possibility.

Agreed H. Skousen seemed very presumptuous to me when he opined about what the Brethren do and don't understand regarding the workings of secret combinations. A bit to full of himself for my taste but to each their own.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

If you really want to change things, you first need to come to terms with just how corrupt and evil the current system is.

An incomplete understanding of the situation will lead to half baked solutions that accomplish nothing.

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

I have debated too many times on many other threads. No thanks. Joel Skousen doesn't know all nor claims to, but he does have great credibility in my book, and he also knows RP personally. In the video, he says why RP is so important - and all that he has/will accomplish for the liberty movement. I think his argument is a lot stronger than Jason's or Semp's. Everyone has their own opinions and I completely disagree with them as has been stated many times before.

The one thing I expect from Ron Paul is not to talk about freedom but to defend our freedoms. "Against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic, to preserve, defend, protect the constitution. In this case Joel has too much invested, and is to close to the situation to have an objective view about Ron Paul. Like you said, he knows Ron Paul. I like Joel. But he is wrong here. Our Constitution is being put through the meat grinder by a man who isn't even eligible to serve. Right in front of of faces. Ron Paul has decided being quiet is the better option for him rather than defend the constitution. As far as Ron Paul being "so important to liberty" just isn't true. He is wrong. The truth is the most important thing. He is to close to the situation and here is why. Not only does Joel know that Obama is not a natural born citizen but he knows Obama broke the law AGAIN by forging a document.

http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.co ... te-is.html

Joel is very well informed. I will always listen to what he has to say. But Joel thinks your crazy if you think Obama is a natural born citizen. In one interview he even said the only way not know this is to either lie or pure arrogance. Ron Paul is the one exception though, he is niether lying or is arogant. Whats worse is out of all the people in our country Ron Paul happens to be the one guy that actually can do something. Yet the very man he supports believes Obama is qualified to be president. If Joel knows Ron Paul why hasn't he called him and tell him to wake up and pull his head out of his butt. Convince him like he has others that this is a life and death situation and the importance to expose these lies. But I already know what he will say. "BUT Joel, I don't want to get laughed out of congress. I would rather ignore the truth and the constitution than get laughed at." One reason why we are doomed. If not even the supposed good guys will stand up for the constitution and listen to the voice of the people who have demanded our representatives take immediate action on these issues, Nope. But you are all fine with this while our freedoms are being flushed down the toilet. I agree with Joel about Obama eligibility, I just majorly disagree with with him being OK with Ron Paul silence. Not just this but a whole score of situations.

As President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., said, “We do not lack a prophet; what we lack is a listening ear by the people and a determination to live as God has commanded” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1948, p. 80). What we need today is our representatives to listen to the people, same thing with our awful situation, we don't lack the truth we lack a listening ear, meaning our representative need to listen to the people. Which they are not, and neither is Ron Paul. Or he would listen to his supporters. What Ron Paul need to do is stop talking audit and start listening to the people. Not just him all of them. But they wont listen and that's why we need to vote every single incumbent out of office! Joel need to start convincing his audience, we know the truth, what he need to do is convince and hold those in power accountable.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Inside the "Ron Paul" Spam Botnet
http://www.secureworks.com/research/threats/srizbi/

Spam Promoting Ron Paul Traced to Ukrainian Botnet
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/1 ... ul-promot/

[iamse7encaptain of 1,000]

Semp, in those videos I posted above, Joel does address the topic of conspiracy and running for office. Says RP does believe in conspiracy, but won't say so publicly, then says he agrees with that strategy, comments on why he can't ever run for office himself because of everything he's said. Says RP played it smart, is winning the hearts and minds of people - educating them and helping them awake. I can personally attest to this as I'm sure many others can.

So because Joel knows RP, he can't view him objectively. You don't know him, so you can view him objectively. So if you want to know about Joseph Smith's character, you must listen to those people who didn't know him, because those close to him aren't objective; they've invested too much in him. Wonderful, Semp.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

The Washington Post’s Dave Weigel asked Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) why he changed his mind and now supports repealing the military's “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy. Here’s what Paul said:

"I have received several calls and visits from constituents who, in spite of the heavy investment in their training, have been forced out of the military simply because they were discovered to be homosexual," Paul said Friday. "To me, this seems like an awful waste. Personal behavior that is disruptive should be subject to military discipline regardless of whether the individual is heterosexual or homosexual. But to discharge an otherwise well-trained, professional, and highly skilled member of the military for these reasons is unfortunate and makes no financial sense."

http://reason.com/blog/2010/05/28/ron-p ... g-dont-ask

Ron Paul was one of five Republicans who voted to repeal “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.” I was a Ron Paul supporter before Ron Paul was cool, but that was a bad vote. There is no imperative to apply libertarian ideology to the military, an inherently very unlibertarian institution. The military discriminates in all kind of ways for the purpose of creating the most effective fighting force. It discriminates based on IQ (entrance tests), height, health, gender (certain fields), drug use, etc. There is no reason why it shouldn’t discriminate against homosexuals if they are felt to compromise the effectiveness of the force. I’m afraid this will hurt Paul if he runs for President again.

We should in fact repeal the Clinton era “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell,” which was as much PC as they could get away with at the time, and we should return to the prior arrangement where potential recruits were explicitly asked. The question was in there with all the other questions like “Have you ever used drugs?” and “Have you ever had asthma?” Homosexuality is either a threat to good order and discipline or it is not. If it is, which is obvious, then it should not be handled any differently due to PC sensibilities.

http://conservativetimes.org/?p=5477

California Young Americans for Freedom (YAF) chairman Ryan Sorba generated a media controversy when he was shown at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) denouncing the organizers for inviting a homosexual Republican group, GOProud, into the event as an official sponsor. In “controversial” remarks, Sorba said homosexuality was unnatural and that he welcomed more debate and discussion about the subject from his political adversaries.

But what many people don’t realize is that Sorba’s “outburst” was provoked by a speaker who preceded him, Alexander McCobin of Students For Liberty (SFL). McCobin went out of his way to use valuable time from the podium to thank the American Conservative Union, the main CPAC organizer, for making the controversial decision to approve GOProud’s participation.

David Keene, a lobbyist, is the chairman of the ACU and personally approved GOProud’s involvement in CPAC.

“I think CPAC went overboard this year. I don’t think he [Keene] should be sitting at the top of CPAC,” Sorba told me. He noted that CPAC over the last several years has also allowed groups such as the ACLU to have exhibits at the event.

“What’s next?,” Sorba asked. “Are they going to have Republicans for Obamacare? Republicans for free abortions?”

Incredibly, McCobin of SFL told me that his group “is not a conservative organization” and that “We spent this past weekend reaching out to the left and the right at both the Young Democrats of America’s convention and the Conservative Political Action Conference. We are not left or right.”

If they are not conservative, Sorba asked, “What are they doing at CPAC?”

No stranger to controversy, Sorba is the author of the book, The Born Gay Hoax (this is a working draft) and was shouted down at Smith College by lesbian activists because of his support for traditional values.

Sorba said the negative reaction he got from some in the CPAC audience came from those in libertarian and pro-Ron Paul groups whose purpose is “to infiltrate the conservative movement and take it over from within.” He said that he received strong support after the event from traditional conservatives.

Proving the point, McCobin’s SFL is based at the libertarian Cato Institute, which has a conservative view on federal spending issues but promotes a U.S. military withdrawal from much of the world and very liberal social views, such as legalization of marijuana and other drugs.

Adding to the controversy, the Cato Institute has been funded by the ultra-liberal billionaire George Soros, a major financial benefactor of many different “progressive” organizations. The Open Society Institute of Soros has put tens of thousands of dollars into Cato for such purposes as a “lecture series” on the dangers of a war on drugs, a project to prevent a national system of identification under the immigration laws, and a “Civil Liberties and Counterterrorism Initiative” that protects the civil liberties and human rights of accused terrorists.

What’s more, GOProud isn’t a conservative group, either. Christopher R. Barron, chairman of GOProud, runs CapSouth Consulting, which works for “centrist Republicans” — not conservatives.

So the issue isn’t just why GOProud was at CPAC but why Students For Liberty, an admittedly non-conservative group, was there and had a speaking role.

“The media gave these clowns a lot of favorable coverage,” noted one traditional conservative activist who was upset by the drift of CPAC this year. “We have our work cut out for us, between the media and the libertarian student movement that supports sodomy. We are going to organize a huge turnout of socially conservative youth next year, to offset the libertarian slide that CPAC has taken.”

At David Horowitz’s Newsreal blog, the libertarian slide was also in evidence, as Ryan Mauro wrote that Sorba’s tough response to McCobin and others amounted to “condemning CPAC for allowing homosexuals who share their agenda to co-sponsor them.”

In fact, GOProud’s commitment to constitutionally protected homosexual sodomy (i.e., anal intercourse) is not a position that appears on the agenda of any conservative groups.

Mauro claimed, “I know many conservatives who do not have a problem with homosexuals openly serving in the military, and many more who find banning sodomy to be an act of big government.”

Of course, the “banning” of homosexuality is not realistically possible at this stage in the United States because the Supreme Court has effectively legalized it.

GOProud, the organization at the center of the storm, claims to be “conservative” but supports the Obama policy of putting active and open homosexuals in the military, supports homosexual marriage, and even advocates a foreign policy of promoting acceptance of sodomy abroad. The latter is referred to as “Standing strong against radical regimes who seek to criminalize gays and lesbians.”

GOProud also says it wants to “defend the Constitution” in the U.S. by “Opposing any anti-gay federal marriage amendment.” It doesn’t explain how protecting the country against out-of-control judges legalizing gay marriage without a vote of the people is unconstitutional.

On the association with the Cato Institute, he asserted, “Students For Liberty is not affiliated with Cato in any way.”

However, he acknowledged that “Cato in-kinds office space to SFL for our use, and we work together on initiatives sometimes (e.g., Cato was one of many sponsors of the 3rd Annual International Students For Liberty Conference last weekend and Cato and SFL co-sponsored a republishing of Cato’s ‘With all due respect, Mr. President, that is not true’ ad in student newspapers after it was successful in national papers last year), but there is no formal relationship and Cato does not fund SFL. SFL is run by students and recent alumni dedicated to liberty as an independent entity. Cato believes in what SFL is doing and we believe in what Cato is doing and so work together when we can.”

SFL’s office is listed on its website as at the Cato Institute.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribun ... _02_26.asp

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

@iamse7en; He sure hasn't won over my heart and mind and in fact he lost it. And once again you have to bring The Prophet of this dispensation and mention him in the same breath as Ron Paul. Like I said before, Ron Paul is no giant. Just a punk like the rest of them cowards. I know Ron Paul believes in conspiracies, that why I am so upset with his lies and silents. By the way, This isn't really about Ron Paul per say but about the rule of law and the Constitution and how it is in the balance.. But Ron Paul wants to educate not defend when it need defending more than at anytime in our countrys history. All the blood our fathers have spilled for our freedoms is going to waste.. And all of are reps are deliberate letting it go into the trash. This whole course is delibertly planned and Ron Paul is nowhere to be found on key issues. Anyone with eyes and anyone with ears who has spent any matter of time listening to Joel knows he promotes Ron Paul like few others. He never lets an opportunity go by without mentioning him. As well as all the Ron Paul signs in the background of his lectures. Anyone with eyes and ears can tell you this. No way he is about to take a step back and say Ron Paul is not a patriot. I don't know Obama but I know he is a communist, just like I know Ron Paul is a sell out.

There is No justification for his actions. He has been apart of this corrupt system as long as anybody. If Ron Paul doesn't want to fight for the Constitution and wants to talk liberty he need to resign tomorrow. We need people who will listen to the people, which he isn't, we need people in office who even if they cant make a change at least die trying. That's the price of freedom.

Ron Paul is not running for president to win, or he would put his own money to the very cause he has ask his supporters to do. He is a hypocrite. Plain and simple. How can someone get up on a pulpit and tell everyone how important it is to pay tithing when they don't pay themselves. He is not defending the constitution (neither are the rest of them pigs) He is about one last bank run on the very people that support him.

You are the one who isn't looking at it objectively. But hey, like I said, you fine with Ron Paul sitting on the side line late in the 4th quarter. He is close to the stands informing people about the game when his team needs to be in the game putting everything on the line not holding anything back. Its the only way.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

4.05 - "What do you say to people who advocate for self government, rather than a return to the Constitution?"

Ron Paul: "Great. Fine. That is really what my goal is."

[JasonI am a nobody!]

@iamse7en; He sure hasn't won over my heart and mind and in fact he lost it. And once again you have to bring The Prophet of this dispensation and mention him in the same breath as Ron Paul. Like I said before, Ron Paul is no giant. Just a punk like the rest of them cowards. I know Ron Paul believes in conspiracies, that why I am so upset with his lies and silents. By the way, This isn't really about Ron Paul per say but about the rule of law and the Constitution and how it is in the balance.. But Ron Paul wants to educate not defend when it need defending more than at anytime in our countrys history. All the blood our fathers have spilled for our freedoms is going to waste.. And all of are reps are deliberate letting it go into the trash. This whole course is delibertly planned and Ron Paul is nowhere to be found on key issues. Anyone with eyes and anyone with ears who has spent any matter of time listening to Joel knows he promotes Ron Paul like few others. He never lets an opportunity go by without mentioning him. As well as all the Ron Paul signs in the background of his lectures. Anyone with eyes and ears can tell you this. No way he is about to take a step back and say Ron Paul is not a patriot. I don't know Obama but I know he is a communist, just like I know Ron Paul is a sell out.

There is No justification for his actions. He has been apart of this corrupt system as long as anybody. If Ron Paul doesn't want to fight for the Constitution and wants to talk liberty he need to resign tomorrow. We need people who will listen to the people, which he isn't, we need people in office who even if they cant make a change at least die trying. That's the price of freedom.

Ron Paul is not running for president to win, or he would put his own money to the very cause he has ask his supporters to do. He is a hypocrite. Plain and simple. How can someone get up on a pulpit and tell everyone how important it is to pay tithing when they don't pay themselves. He is not defending the constitution (neither are the rest of them pigs) He is about one last bank run on the very people that support him.

You are the one who isn't looking at it objectively. But hey, like I said, you fine with Ron Paul sitting on the side line late in the 4th quarter. He is close to the stands informing people about the game when his team needs to be in the game putting everything on the line not holding anything back. Its the only way.

In the video I posted above Ron Paul clearly states his position with regard to those who actually want to fight the fight.....right at the beginning of the video (specifically with regard to the IRS)....supports your statement above.

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

Dang Jason, I tried looking for this exact interview a while back and could not find it. Great find. How did you come across this?

Also, Ron Paul has benefited, and partaken in the PTB spoils just like the rest of them. He also has personally partaken in the secret combination. Obama care. One day Its Defund, the next day it is repeal. (which defunding is the only to end Obama care, well there is one other way, Since Obama is not qualified for the office of president it means every single piece of paper he has signed is actually invalid.)

Helaman 6:38

And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.

Ether 9:6
6For so great had been the spreading of this wicked and secret society that it had corrupted the hearts of all the people; therefore Jared was murdered upon his throne, and Akish reigned in his stead.

Pride, the desire for money, and seeking the praise of man make people susceptible to uniting with secret combinations; such go on to murder, plunder, and bear false witness against their neighbor (Helaman 7:21, 25–26).

[JasonI am a nobody!]

Dang Jason, I tried looking for this exact interview a while back and could not find it. Great find. How did you come across this?

Also, Ron Paul has benefited, and partaken in the PTB spoils just like the rest of them. He also has personally partaken in the secret combination. Obama care. One day Its Defund, the next day it is repeal. (which defunding is the only to end Obama care, well there is one other way, Since Obama is not qualified for the office of president it means every single piece of paper he has signed is actually invalid.)

Helaman 6:38

And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.

Ether 9:6
6For so great had been the spreading of this wicked and secret society that it had corrupted the hearts of all the people; therefore Jared was murdered upon his throne, and Akish reigned in his stead.

Pride, the desire for money, and seeking the praise of man make people susceptible to uniting with secret combinations; such go on to murder, plunder, and bear false witness against their neighbor (Helaman 7:21, 25–26).

....European forum -
http://followthemoney.forumotion.net/t2 ... opposition

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

I need to get me that shirt that kid is wearing giving that interview. One of my favorite sayings; "Give me liberty or give me death" Patrick Henry
Liberty or Death.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

I need to get me that shirt that kid is wearing giving that interview. One of my favorite sayings; "Give me liberty or give me death" Patrick Henry
Liberty or Death.

LOL.....you won't catch Ron Paul in it!!!

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

....European forum -
http://followthemoney.forumotion.net/t2 ... opposition

Sweet! I thought I was the only one who has ever said Ron Paul was controlled opposition.

I need to get me that shirt that kid is wearing giving that interview. One of my favorite sayings; "Give me liberty or give me death" Patrick Henry
Liberty or Death.

LOL.....you won't catch Ron Paul in it!!!

True that! Sad but true.

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

I've tried to alert you folks to the real doer in terms of liberty. One has done things for 8 solid years in a state where Democrats outnumber Republicans by 2 to 1.

Governor Gary Johnson. This will come out clearly as the debates start really going. Look at his actions, not just his words.

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/a ... 20730.html

April 27, 2008
Ron Paul’s New Publishing Company?

According to the Houston Chronicle-"To further Paul's Libertarian-leaning agenda, his campaign is exploring a novel way to use millions of dollars in leftover donations: setting up a for-profit publishing company that would focus on free-market economics and personal liberties — causes the Texas congressman holds dear."

This was in April, 2008!!! Ron Paul didn’t even announce he was ending his presidential campaign until June 14, 2008. This was also reported in late 2007 that he had already made plans for his campaign contributions, and it wasn't going to spent trying to win the nomination. Like I said before, Rand and Ron had this whole scheme planned out before he even ran for President. He played his part magnificently. Yet he was deceiving us the entire time. So this is what we know, While Ron Paul was asking all his supporters to donate to his presidential campaign,(which he wouldn't do himself, which says a whole lot) when he knew full well he was going to eventually back out and spend that money elsewhere. He was not in it to win it. From April to June ( more like the entire time) he continued to put on the appearance that he was in it to win it, saying all the right things like politicians and actors do, and ME and others continued to donate to his campaign on this false believe. Now if Ron would have been honest, and ethical and told the truth it would have cost him MILLIONS of $$$$$$. Which might have coast him his seat in the house. He was not about to do that. But it does show he is willing to do whatever it takes to push his own agenda. Even if it means lie and deceive.

Than he does what all smart and rich people do. They let their money work for them. He took "some" left over money, ( 5 million plus) and put into a profit organization. Unbelievable. There is nothing honest about this, the is nothing ethical about this at all. Plain and simple!! Anyone who has eyes to see knows Ron Paul hustled us. He lied. Well played Dr. Paul!!!

What I want to know is what does he already have planned for all his left over money this time around. Either way I have no doubt they have already discussed it or its already planed. Maybe.... http://ask.metafilter.com/80372/What-ha ... paign-ends


Paul has a novel idea for his campaign leftovers
Lawmaker might start for-profit publishing firm, testing bounds of finance rules

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5732113.html

Political finance experts say such a business venture funded with some $4 million in political cash would test the bounds of federal campaign finance regulations.

"I've never heard of anyone taking their campaign money and putting it into a for-profit corporation," said Fred Wertheimer, president of Democracy 21, an organization that advocates campaign finance reform.............

Federal guidelines stipulate that campaign funds can't be used for the candidate's personal use, specifically things such as vacations, mortgage, rent or household items. Funds also can't be used to seed a for-profit corporation that benefits an individual or shareholder.

But Ron Paul supporters will say this was all for educating the masses and not to make a dollar. You put Mitt Romney name in front of Paul’s and everyone here would have something to say about this. The one good thing I can say for mitt is he is he puts his money where his mouth is.. Nobody can argue this. Just look how much of his own money he put into his campaign last time around. That is a heck of a lot more than Ron Paul can say.

40 years in government and Ron Paul's biggest single landmark legislation is???

I have also come up with the perfect nickname for Ron Paul; Master of disguise

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

Sempre: I felt the exact same way about my gifts near the end. He promised to take this to the GOP Convention no matter what and then set up his own mini-convention "next door" during the same time as the national GOP Convention.

I'm not as cynical as you appear to be. I would suggest that you turn your attention to a great libetarian GOP candidate who has shown he can use libetraian concepts in running aNM for 8 years... Governor Gary Johnson.

[Teancumcaptain of 100]

This thread is turning into an anti-Paul cheerleading campaign. Waste of time for me.

[JasonI am a nobody!]

This thread is turning into an anti-Paul cheerleading campaign. Waste of time for me.

....yeah facts suck.....waste of time....why bother commenting at all?

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

Teancum: Ron Paul is who I will vote for if he is the GOP nominee. I would prefer Governor Gary Johnson.

[ktgcaptain of 100]

It's funny how people bashing Ron Paul admit that he's the best choice out of those running. I guess to each his own.

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

This thread is turning into an anti-Paul cheerleading campaign. Waste of time for me.

....yeah facts suck.....waste of time....why bother commenting at all?

Did you even read the first post Teancum? Instead of talking why Ron Paul is afraid of being "laughed out of congress," his fans want to talk about what said yesterday about certain issue. I have heard enough talk. What is he doing right now to stop this? All I hear is excuses for he silence. If we don't stop this Communist and stop him today and reverse everything he has done, whose every move is against the best interest of the people of the united states, who is breaking the law at every corner, and who isn't even qualified under the constitution of the United States to be president, than America as we know it is gone. Hence, "Are awful situation"

And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations. And thus they did obtain the sole management of the government, insomuch that they did trample under their feet and smite and rend and turn their backs upon the poor and the meek, and the humble followers of God. And thus we see that they were in an awful state, and ripening for an everlasting destruction. (Helaman 6: 37-40)

It's funny how people bashing Ron Paul admit that he's the best choice out of those running. I guess to each his own.

Whats even more funny is those who worship Ron Paul actually think he is different than the rest of these lifetime politicians. That people think Ron Paul actually gets it. I guess each his own.

Ron Paul the other day suggested we walk away from our debt. I wanted to ask him why he would say such a dumb thing. How are we to just walk away form our debt with China? We can't run from our debt. But we sure can run from the Federal Reserve. Maybe one of his fans can go explain this to him.

[iamse7encaptain of 1,000]

Ron Paul the other day suggested we walk away from our debt. I wanted to ask him why he would say such a dumb thing. How are we to just walk away form our debt with China? We can't run from our debt. But we sure can run from the Federal Reserve. Maybe one of his fans can go explain this to him.

There can be a good and moral argument to debt repudiation. I don't know where I stand, but before you claim to know more about economics than someone who has been studying and following Austrian economics, calling bubbles, and warning about exactly what is happening today for 40 years, this is a decent post to read. In this case, RP agrees with one of the greatest economists of our day: Murray Rothbard. Then this is good for a look at both sides of the argument.

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

KTG: I can't speak for anyone else but I think the best man is Governor Gary Johnson who also is a principled libertarain Republican. He actually applied libetarain ideas while NM< Governor for 8 years. He did this in a state where Democrrats out number Republicans by 2 to 0ne. How was this possible? He vetoed over 700 bills and only had 3 overriden. That IMO is a miracle and shows his great ability to deal with the big governmenr folks.

[SempiternalHarbingercaptain of 1,000]

Ron Paul the other day suggested we walk away from our debt. I wanted to ask him why he would say such a dumb thing. How are we to just walk away form our debt with China? We can't run from our debt. But we sure can run from the Federal Reserve. Maybe one of his fans can go explain this to him.

There can be a good and moral argument to debt repudiation. I don't know where I stand, but before you claim to know more about economics than someone who has been studying and following Austrian economics, calling bubbles, and warning about exactly what is happening today for 40 years, this is a decent post to read. In this case, RP agrees with one of the greatest economists of our day: Murray Rothbard. Then this is good for a look at both sides of the argument.

You are SOOOO right iamse7en. I am not an economic expert. But you don't need to be an expert to understand whats going on. Ron Paul suggested we walk away from our debt with China?? There is no reasonable explanation for this. I guess we could walk away from paying China back but than they would be invading us tomorrow. iamse7en, What do you think would be the results of walking away from our debt with China?

[Samuel the Lamanitecaptain of 1,000]

I beleive that Paul and Rothbard are talking only about the debt created by gross speculation allowed by the FED truning on the money spigit. I know I'll get flamed for this by some but I'm an Austrian with a Doctorate who taught such economic concepts for 30 years. Blowing my own horn.

As to the debt to China, fully expect both economic and militart retaliation. Wouldn't you do the same if this was done to the USA?