How will the Constitution govern the world?

[jeanpierre]

Recently another member of the Church was visiting in our home and had a lot to say about the Constitution of the United States becoming the governing system for the whole world. My wife and I both wonder how that will come about, considering the large number of Latter=day Saints born, raised, and living in countries that are socialist and like that system of government and would not want to be under the chains of the Constitution. If the U.S. Constitution is to become the governing system for the whole world, as I forget which prophet or apostle stated, how will that come about?

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

It will not govern the world until all nations are broken apart by their own mobocracy. The world will all be in chaos and the only safety will be in Zion (which will be found wherever the church is hint hint) and those who seek good governance and thereby safety will be forced to flee to it, to us, that is not to say exclusively to Missouri or Utah. Maybe to the Western Hemisphere (as Zion is broadly interpreted as both North and South America), but that's as far as I'm willing to go.

[sbsion]

being written in their hearts

[Samuel the Lamanite]

One the bet articles I've read was by Brother DeHoyas, noiw dead but a sociology professor at BYU and I beleive later a Seventy.
The major point of his article was that people in different nations have their own cultures which they bring to the Gospel when they convert. What needs to be recognized by people of all nationalities is that there is a Mormon culture which is part of the change and being born again. The Inspired Constitution is part of that Mormon culture, not just a political document.

[Tetraman]

Is it the constitution itself that will govern the world or the principles of the constitution that will be woven into the law of Zion?
I don't think this will happen world wide until Christ come in his full glory to the whole world.

[lundbaek]

I guess it doesn't really matter if the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights become the governing document, or if just the principles themselves are codified into something else. Some statements about it sem to indicate that the principles will be taken to the rest of the world, while other statements give me to think the US Constitution will be the governing document here in America when LDSs come to America at some point in time to get away for the chaos and conflice that is prophesied to take place. My concern now is for the members in all countries who for various reasons would have a hard time living under the principles of the original Constitution, and I have met and known many of them.

[Darren]

The Constitution of the United States is a continuation, in a long line of the constitutional ways to live, of God's covenant people. We will not copy and paste the US Constitution as it is into the future constitution of the people who choose the Zion way to live in the Millennium. Although that continuation of the constitutional way to live in Zion will have principles that are in harmony with principles in the Old US Constitution.

Living by constitutions is how Moses set up the children of Israel to be judged in their looking forward to Christ. Living by constitutions is how the 12 temple priests who introduced their god to them, set up the lost tribes of Israel in the North to be judged in their looking to the resurrected Christ that also visited them.

God Bless,
Darren

[Original_Intent]

Let me add to BrentL's thought:

The Constitution is nothing more than a facet or aspect of the stone that will be cut without hands and roll forth and encompass the earth.

The reason it will do this is as Brent hints at: it will NEVER be enforced upon anyone, it is based upon the principle of agency, and a person must DESIRE to live under it. That is why it is only able to be the governing document of a moral and religious people - because only a moral and religious people will want it, and if you don't want it badly enough it will be lost. Not MAY BE lost but MUST BE.

It is not a document for a people that want the government to rule them, it is a document for people who want to and are willing to rule themselves (and allow others the same privilege). Each individual must UNDERSTAND, ACCEPT, ADHERE TO, and DEFEND the principles. You can't relegate that duty to someone else who takes an oath to do so, each person must make the internal commitment to do so. Any individual who fails to do so surrenders their right to it.

And the day is coming that people will cry out for it. It won't be the United States enforcing a hegemony over the rest of the world. It will be people throughout the world understanding and craving the principles in their lives.

edit: also +1 to what Darren posted.

[jeanpierre]

So, BrentL, you think I am not capable of understanding how the U.S. Constitution could become the governing system for the entire world? Try me.

[Darren]

The way I see it happening, is that at the future conference at Adam-ondi-Ahmen the leaders past and present will meet with Christ and He will say, "Look unto ME." Those leaders will make available that "Look unto ME" covenant of the Church to the world. That will be the next version of the "constitution of the people" that will be a continuation of the constitutional way to live and work together. And then "out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."

Choosing to live by our personal and collective covenants/constitutions to "Look unto ME", instead of by the arm of flesh Governments and Orthodoxy, that is how the constitution will come that will govern the world.

God Bless,
Darren

[lundbaek]

I have a hard time explaining to LDSs why they should espouse the principles of the US Constitution. The posts by Darren and Original Intent have given me to realize that I have been trying to beat the Constitution and its principles into people by constantly reminding them of the commandment to "befriend" the Constitution; to mandate, command that they study and abide by it. I wonder if that is what those past latter-day prophets and apostles tried to do, and it didn't work very well, did it ? This has been an eye opener to me, and I need to ponder it some more.

[Original_Intent]

I have a hard time explaining to LDSs why they should espouse the principles of the US Constitution. The posts by Darren and Original Intent have given me to realize that I have been trying to beat the Constitution and its principles into people by constantly reminding them of the commandment to "befriend" the Constitution; to mandate, command that they study and abide by it. I wonder if that is what those past latter-day prophets and apostles tried to do, and it didn't work very well, did it ? This has been an eye opener to me, and I need to ponder it some more.

I am glad to have helped lundbaek, as you have helped me to see a great many things as well.

I have been thru the same process of trying to "beat the Constitution" into people. Finally dawned on me that 1) that is not the Lord's way, and 2) it doesn't work.

I actually wrote something down for my personal notes as I was writing my previous post. I wrote "Some things CAN NOT be taught and must be SOUGHT AFTER and LEARNED. And the only help that you can give is to awaken that desire to learn."

Kind of lightens the weight on your shoulders once you realize that.

[iamse7en]

...the U.S. Constitution is to become the governing system for the whole world, as I forget which prophet or apostle stated...

Anyone have the quote or reference to the prophet or apostle who stated this?

[lundbaek]

The Lord told us thru the Prophet Joseph Smith that the US Constitution should be "maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh" (D&C 101:77) and that this "principle of freedom belongs to all mankind" (D&C 98:5). Also, in the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland Tempel the Prophet prayed that "the Constitution of our land....be established forever. (D&C 109:54). Statements by subsequent prophets and apostles that indicate the Constitution will eventually be the basis for governing the world can be found in Chris Bentley's book "A Glorious Standard For All Mankind" in section 4. Perhaps later I or someone else can copy them here. I gotta scoot.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

If memebrs don't want to defend the Constitution now, what will happen to these same people in the Millenium? All of us are creatures of habit. We rae constantly told in the BofM that we should NOT procrasitinate our repentence.

BTW, this has been a MARVELOUS dialogue.

[jeanpierre]

There is a story, true or not I don't know, that one of the ancient philosophers like Socrates on someone else was approached by a young man who asked him to teach him all that he knew. So he elder man took the young man out in to water, shoved his head under and held it there for a long while. When he let the youong man up for air, he told him that if he wanted knowledge as badly as he wanted air, he would not need him to teach him; he would seek it out for himself. Maybe that's the way it will have to be. And I thank each of you for you contributions to this thread.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Jean: It's true showing the best way to teach. Asking questions and getting people to act so they experience the learning for themselves

[sbsion]

Is it the constitution itself that will govern the world or the principles of the constitution that will be woven into the law of Zion?
I don't think this will happen world wide until Christ come in his full glory to the whole world.

righton..........and for those who have "experienced the might change"

[Samuel the Lamanite]

SB: That is the key to many things in living the Gospel. All of life is seen in a very different and eternal way. Without it, we are just another competing Church.

[GeeR]

The "law" mentioned in the hymnal High on a Mountain Top is the Constitution! Members sing it all the time in Church and don't even know what it means.

For there we shall be taught
The law that will go forth,
With truth and wisdom fraught,
To govern all the earth.
Forever there his ways we’ll tread,
And save ourselves with all our dead.

As I understand the subject, Zion will be the only people to live under the Constitution. When the worlds political and socio-economic world falls apart, only Zion will be at peace and it will be a light to the nations that has the answers. People will come to us for a defense and refuge and its influence will spread throughout the world.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

An assignment??? Ask your Bishop and SP if talks on the Constitution are allowed in Sacrament meeting? I've heard that their handbook says not to do this, stick to the milk.

What say ye?

[Libertas]

This is from the dedicatory prayer of the Idaho Falls Temple given on September 23, 1945. This may give some additional insight on this topic. Notice the date it was given. Look at the last paragraph of the quote below for how the US Constitution will fulfill Isaiah's prophecy in Isaiah 2:3

We thank Thee, O God, for the choice land upon which we reside, and for the marvelous promises Thou hast made concerning America, that it should be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under Heaven so long as the inhabitants of the land should worship the God of the land who is Jesus Christ. Thou hast revealed unto us that in the great controversy which took place in Heaven that the cornerstone of Thy plan of salvation was the free agency of man, and that Lucifer, who was an angel in authority in Thy Holy presence, proposed a different way; that Lucifer's plan was rejected because the effect of its application would be to deprive Thy children of their free agency. When Lucifer's plan was rejected by Thee he rebelled against Thee; there was war in Heaven and he and his followers were cast out. We thank Thee that Thou hast warned us by revelation that Satan would deceive the nations in our time. Thou hast said: "I will give you a pattern in all things, that ye may not be deceived, for Satan is abroad in the land, and he goeth forth deceiving the nations." As we look about in the world among the various countries we find philosophies and forms of government the effect of which is to deprive men of their free agency, but by reason of Thy timely warning to us, we know that they are not approved of Thee. Since the God of this choice land is Jesus Christ, we know that His philosophy of free agency should prevail here. Thou didst amply demonstrate this great principle to us by raising up wise men for the very purpose of giving us our Constitutional form of government, concerning which Thou hast said: "I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles; that every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment. Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another. And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up into this very purpose." There are those, our Heavenly Father, both within and without our borders who would destroy the Constitutional form of government which Thou hast so magnanimously given us, and would replace it with a form that would curtail if not altogether deprive man of his free agency. We pray Thee, therefore, that in all these matters Thou wilt help us to conform our lives to Thy desires, and that Thou wilt sustain us in our resolve so to do. We pray Thee that Thou wilt inspire good and just men everywhere to be willing to sacrifice for, support and uphold the Constitution and the government set up under it and thereby preserve for man his agency.

We thank Thee that Thou hast revealed to us that those who gave us our Constitutional form of government were men wise in Thy sight and that Thou didst raise them up for the very purpose of putting forth that sacred document.

Wilt Thou, O our Father, bless the Chief Executive of this land that his heart and will may be to preserve for us and our posterity the free institutions Thy Constitution has provided. Wilt Thou too bless the Legislative and Judicial branches of our government as well as the Executive, that all may function fully and courageously in their respective branches completely independent of each other to the preservation of our Constitutional form of government forever.

We pray that kings and rulers and the peoples of all nations under heaven may be persuaded of the blessings enjoyed by the people of this land by reason of their freedom under Thy guidance and be constrained to adopt similar governmental systems, thus to fulfill the ancient prophecy of Isaiah that "out of Zion shall go forth the law and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."

[Libertas]

An assignment??? Ask your Bishop and SP if talks on the Constitution are allowed in Sacrament meeting? I've heard that their handbook says not to do this, stick to the milk.

What say ye?

The handbook does not prohibit talking about the constitution in sacrament meeting. This is from the handbook.

The bishopric selects subjects for talks and music in sacrament meetings. Talks and music should focus on gospel subjects that help members build faith and testimony.

I believe the constitution is scripture and is therefore an appropriate topic for sacrament meeting.

[Original_Intent]

We pray that kings and rulers and the peoples of all nations under heaven may be persuaded of the blessings enjoyed by the people of this land by reason of their freedom under Thy guidance and be constrained to adopt similar governmental systems, thus to fulfill the ancient prophecy of Isaiah that "out of Zion shall go forth the law and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."

Sweet.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Libertas: Thanks for the research. So we can coclude that if we rarely if ever hear about Last Days events, defending the inspired Constitution, and subjects surrounding the command given in Ether 8... that it is a local decisison?