US vs Arizona suit and Illegal Immigration

[pritchet1]

The USA under the current POTUS sides with Mexico against Arizona and the citizens of the USA, in NOT defending the citizens from those who break the law (human traffickers, drug cartels, murderers, foreign felons, scofflaws, etc.).

Why?

Patriot Networks Production
http://www.youtube.com/embed/tsH8xvjTAlo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How Mexico treats illegal immigrants
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oALGLTdJTqw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lundbaek]

The current POTUS and others controlling our governemnt side with Mexico against Arizona and the citizens of the USA, in NOT defending the citizens from those who break the law because it is in the interest of those Americans who are seeking to destroy American sovereignty and our constitutional republic by making a shambles of our country and replacing it with first a regional and then a global socialist dictatorship.

[wiser2]

I won't pretend to understand why the president does things, but I will explain some reasons why he should do some things.

The 10th amendment of the US Constitution takes all implicit authority away from the federal government and gives it to the states and people. This affects your question in 2 arenas: 1. immigration, and 2. crimes. In general, only the states have legal power to prosecute and to legislate morality laws like murder and drugs. And concerning immigration, the federal government is only allowed to impose a tax up to $10/migrant (Article 1, Section 9).

So, the Arizona law which bases itself upon illegal federal law becomes somewhat baseless. But, you may ask, why doesn't Arizona create their own immigration laws as the 10th amendment suggests they may? Well, their power is limited by the 14th amendment which requires that all people ,who fall within the states jurisdiction, receive equal protection of the law and due process. That requirement then prohibits a discriminatory law that punishes according to place of birth.

So, the quick answer is that Arizona is in direct rebellion to our Constitutional supreme law as they purse immigration.

The Declaration of Independence declares that all men have the God-given right to the pursuit of happiness, life, and liberty. I argue that means that God thinks that it is legal that I try to get gainful employment (pursuit of happiness), and have a right to exist within this country, not because the country gave me a permit, but because God permits me. I also believe that it should be the people that permit the government to operate, not the government permitting the people to exist or work. I believe that God will eventually make His power known - meaning that those who violate the rights He has given will understand personally why He gave them and the cost associated for violating them. Jesus Christ specifically threatened "gentile" Americans on this subject in 3 Nephi 20 and 21.

Can we survive as a nation as we make working a serious crime? Shouldn't we be rewarding those who are willing to contribute to our economy? I believe that one saving solution to our economic woes would be to allow hard working immigrants to rebuild our economy. And yet, we try to make it illegal for them to work, or for me to hire them to work.

Jesus Christ taught us in Matt. 25 that if we don't let the stranger/immigrant in, we will face everlasting fire. This is a very serious issue to Him.

In summary, the Arizona law is illegal, immoral, and depresses our economy and liberty. That may have something to do with why the president is actually following law in this case. I guess there is the possibility that he does not have his government permit to work and is relying on the God-given one

[pritchet1]

You tactfully left out the word "illegal" in your comments.

[lundbaek]

The Declaration of Independence declares that all men have the God-given right to the pursuit of happiness, life, and liberty. Fair enough. Illegal immigration deprives many Americans of that right, as it is intended by its fomentors to do. Too many Americans have no clue why Obama does so much of what he does. Until they understand why he does as he does they will likely never understand the real reason why illegal immigration and amnesty have been and are still promoted.

It is apparent many Mormons think illegal immigration is what the Lord wants. That is wrong, as a careful read of 3 Nephi 16, 20 & 21 should make clear. I believe He simply permits it now because of the general wickedness of the Gentiles of America.

[wiser2]

It is apparent many Mormons think illegal immigration is what the Lord wants. That is wrong, as a careful read of 3 Nephi 16, 20 & 21 should make clear. I believe He simply permits it now because of the general wickedness of the Gentiles of America.

I think that your statement is unfair. As I have pointed out, immigration is not "illegal" in the US, nor under the Lord, but rather the encroachment on our liberty as people, attempting to illegally control immigration, is illegal and immoral. Yet, you likely have a point about the Lord's desire for immigration. Consider verses 13 and 14 of 3 Nephi 20 which state that the scattered "remnants" of the house of Israel will be gathered to America per Christ's Father's command. Verses 15 on then explain that it is the Gentiles, which scattered them, that will be held accountable because they did not repent of scattering them.

And so I ask you, should the illegal US immigration laws restrain the Lord from gathering His scattered people (including the Indians) in North America? Do you blame the people that are gathered at His request, or do you blame Jesus Christ Himself for the fact that He does it anyway? ("And behold, I am he who doeth it." (vs. 19))

Please elaborate on how you interpret 3 Nephi to indicate that immigration should not occur? I would also be interested in why you think that people that are not born here should not have standing, to exist, to work, to purchase property, to live? Is that your idea of a crime? How would you feel if I concluded that you don't have that standing? And if I convinced lawmakers to officially make you illegal, as the Jews were in Germany, or the Mexicans in the US? Would you you feel like justice has occurred? Be aware that Jesus Christ has promised that you will be judged as you judge. So the scenario that I hypothetically bring up will become a reality, unless a change is made.

The Declaration of Independence declares that all men have the God-given right to the pursuit of happiness, life, and liberty. Fair enough. Illegal immigration deprives many Americans of that right, as it is intended by its fomentors to do.

Please elaborate on how immigration "deprives" Americans of the right to the pursuit of happiness, life, and liberty?

The opposite is clearly the case (making immigration illegal). For example, many propose that we control immigration by making it a serious crime to allow immigrants to work for us or to come into our homes or vehicles. The Arizona law makes it a felony to take a large family of Mexicans home from school to save them from a rainstorm. Yes, a felony. I believe it would allow the government to seize my vehicle. And they intend to enforce the prohibition from hiring by micro-managing all businesses. And so we trade our freedom for the ability to be bigots. Is that the trade you were hoping for?

The other problem is that our Declaration of Independence allows us to make the legal, moral, and rational claim that we should not be treated unfairly, because no person should. But, as we make the argument that Mexicans should be treated unfairly, we also make the argument for our enemies to treat us unfairly. So, if you support the violation of civil rights for "illegals", you should pray and hope that no one decides to treat you poorly, because much of your argument is lost that they should not. Not unlike the man in the parable that owed talents (thousands of dollars) and was forgiven, yet held his client accountable for pennies.

[durangout]

I won't pretend to understand why the president does things, but I will explain some reasons why he should do some things.

The 10th amendment of the US Constitution takes all implicit authority away from the federal government and gives it to the states and people. This affects your question in 2 arenas: 1. immigration, and 2. crimes. In general, only the states have legal power to prosecute and to legislate morality laws like murder and drugs. And concerning immigration, the federal government is only allowed to impose a tax up to $10/migrant (Article 1, Section 9).

So, the Arizona law which bases itself upon illegal federal law becomes somewhat baseless. But, you may ask, why doesn't Arizona create their own immigration laws as the 10th amendment suggests they may? Well, their power is limited by the 14th amendment which requires that all people ,who fall within the states jurisdiction, receive equal protection of the law and due process. That requirement then prohibits a discriminatory law that punishes according to place of birth.

So, the quick answer is that Arizona is in direct rebellion to our Constitutional supreme law as they purse immigration.

The Declaration of Independence declares that all men have the God-given right to the pursuit of happiness, life, and liberty. I argue that means that God thinks that it is legal that I try to get gainful employment (pursuit of happiness), and have a right to exist within this country, not because the country gave me a permit, but because God permits me. I also believe that it should be the people that permit the government to operate, not the government permitting the people to exist or work. I believe that God will eventually make His power known - meaning that those who violate the rights He has given will understand personally why He gave them and the cost associated for violating them. Jesus Christ specifically threatened "gentile" Americans on this subject in 3 Nephi 20 and 21.

Can we survive as a nation as we make working a serious crime? Shouldn't we be rewarding those who are willing to contribute to our economy? I believe that one saving solution to our economic woes would be to allow hard working immigrants to rebuild our economy. And yet, we try to make it illegal for them to work, or for me to hire them to work.

Jesus Christ taught us in Matt. 25 that if we don't let the stranger/immigrant in, we will face everlasting fire. This is a very serious issue to Him.

In summary, the Arizona law is illegal, immoral, and depresses our economy and liberty. That may have something to do with why the president is actually following law in this case. I guess there is the possibility that he does not have his government permit to work and is relying on the God-given one

I love it when people take scriptures out of context to prove their point.

[lundbaek]

I don't like it and have no time for it when people take scriptures out of context to try to prove their point. It matters little anyway. As I heard Elder Eyring say about illegal immigration, "We are going to have to live with it."

[wiser2]

I don't like it and have no time for it when people take scriptures out of context to try to prove their point."

I don't like it either. I think that it is wrong, and that we all benefit immensely by finding out and following truth. So, as we make the choice to deny truth, we pay personally, whether or not we are intelligent enough to realize it.

[wiser2]

You tactfully left out the word "illegal" in your comments.

Can you see them better now?

So, the Arizona law which bases itself upon illegal federal law becomes somewhat baseless.
...
And yet, we try to make it illegal for them to work, or for me to hire them to work.
...
In summary, the Arizona law is illegal, immoral, and depresses our economy and liberty.