The Law of Consecration Under American Law

[sovereignthink]

or
(The Loss of Freedom of Religion)

This Land was promised Sovereign, Sacred Checks and Balances under a Public Law that is a protectorate against force, fraud and coercion; to maintain peace, order and prosperity equitably for one and all.

The Sovereign Entities in the America are;
(in order of Recognized, Understood and Just Legal Authority)

1. Individuals (Everyone, All of the Public)
2. Groups (Churches, Clubs, Organizations)
3. Communities (Cities, Counties and Local Regions)
4. States (Groups of Counties and Larger Regions)
5. Nation (A Republic of All the Above)

Each of these are a Check and Balance, a Nullifcation, an Interpostion Against the other from committing any act of force, fraud or coercion which is a Violation of THE LAW of heaven. That is what makes this Land the Promised Land.

THE LAW of Free Will, THE LAW of Free Agency.

It is the Principle that was set, fought and already settled before THE BEGINNING of this temporal world.

THE LAW above all laws.

To violate this Law is THE absolute act of evil.

In this Land we Promise, we vow, we are duty bound; that if This Law is violated, the violators will be Stricken Down with terrible hostility, vengeance and complete destruction.

That is what makes this Land THE Promised Land.

We Protect Voluntary Free Agency.

We are supposed to lead by example, to rule by wisdom and to judge with understanding, patience and forgiveness.

Force is Evil.

In this Land, if the LDS people could have held to the iron rod and followed this principle we would have had Complete Interposition and Defense of Individual Sovereignty under the voluntary law of Consecration.
The early and modern LDS were unable to understand and follow this LAW and have surrendered their church to 501c3, to enforced regulation, to a toothless interposition and utter destruction.

We must Work to Attain Free Agency, to Understand that principle in this temporal world or perish.

The majority of the LDS are blind to this ideal, this principle and this LAW.

They will be saddened to find that they have supported the side of force, fraud and coercion, the side of evil in the latter days.

Those Works in these days have not been performed and Faith without these works is Death.

-sovereignthink

(full)
The Power of a Religious Revolution
http://sovereignthink.wordpress.com/201 ... evolution/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Original_Intent]

How Gentle God's command!

[sovereignthink]

Indeed. and so easy a law, so simple a principle.

[Jason]

Force isn't evil or God becomes evil......better rethink your doctrine!

[Original_Intent]

Force isn't evil or God becomes evil......better rethink your doctrine!

Actually, God doesn't force, any more than He forces someone who jumps off a cliff to fall.

The law does not force behavior, just ENforces consequences (both good and bad).

[Jason]

Force isn't evil or God becomes evil......better rethink your doctrine!

Actually, God doesn't force, any more than He forces someone who jumps off a cliff to fall.

The law does not force behavior, just ENforces consequences (both good and bad).

flood, Israelites, man struck down for steadying the ark, families sucked up into the earth, devil and 1/3 of host of heaven "cast" out, Nephi slaying Laban, etc etc etc etc

It always comes down to force!!!

[sovereignthink]

If someone forces their will on me, or forces their will on others I and God have the moral obligation to strike down that original force (that originator of sin).

We strike the instigator of force, fraud and coercion down with patience, love, reason, wisdom or with returned and direct defensive force.

Jason, look not to the Argonauts but to the saints, the foundation of free agency, the foundation of our nation.

It can be confusing if the principle is not understood, Once the principle is written on the heart, it is a guide stone, an iron rod and simplifies every question or debate.

Learn the Principle of Free Agency, the Principle of Sovereignty, it is the principle of life.

It is Tropic vs Entropic
It is the still small voice of truth.


-sovereignthink

[Original_Intent]

Force isn't evil or God becomes evil......better rethink your doctrine!

Actually, God doesn't force, any more than He forces someone who jumps off a cliff to fall.

The law does not force behavior, just ENforces consequences (both good and bad).

flood, Israelites, man struck down for steadying the ark, families sucked up into the earth, devil and 1/3 of host of heaven "cast" out, Nephi slaying Laban, etc etc etc etc

It always comes down to force!!!

I think we may be having a semantics breakdown. These are all consequences, not God forcing anyone to do anything. Did God force Nephi to slay Laban? Did God force any of the 1/3 to rebel? etc. Sure, being cast out means they were forced from heaven, again, I say that is like jumping off a building and claiming God forced you to fall. It's just the consequence of a law being carried out.

I had a thought earlier, that triggered my "How Gentle God's command" comment.

If we were a plant and Heavenly Father the Gardener, we could look at the ten commandments and see that it is not God saying "because I said so" it is God spelling out some eternal laws for us. A lot of people feel like the 10 commandments limit our freedom. consider the plant analogy, it would be like claiming that the following were "limiting" of freedom.

1 Thou shalt get plenty of sunshine.
2. Thou shalt not spray yourselves with Roundup(tm).
3. Thou shalt not suffer weeds to spring up around you.
4. Thou shalt not have too much water, or too little.
5. Thou shalt not wish to pollinate with other types of plants.
6. Thou shalt enjoy the soil in which thou art planted, and not think the grass is greener for other plants.

etc.

God doesn't force, but He does TRY to educate. When He told Adam "In the day thou eatest (of the fruit) thou shalt surely die" - He was NOT saying "..in the day thou eatest I'm going to kill you!" Just informing of consequence.

[Jason]

If someone forces their will on me, or forces their will on others I and God have the moral obligation to strike down that original force (that originator of sin).

We strike the instigator of force, fraud and coercion down with patience, love, reason, wisdom or with returned and direct defensive force.

Jason, look not to the Argonauts but to the saints, the foundation of free agency, the foundation of our nation.

It can be confusing if the principle is not understood, Once the principle is written on the heart, it is a guide stone, an iron rod and simplifies every question or debate.

Learn the Principle of Free Agency, the Principle of Sovereignty, it is the principle of life.

It is Tropic vs Entropic
It is the still small voice of truth.


-sovereignthink

....so Force isn't evil???

[tsc]

“Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force." ~ Yoda

)

[sovereignthink]

Instigating Force is Evil.

[sovereignthink]

Hopefully now that we are past the semantics breakdown. (and I do appreciate the clarity, Jason, even through the obfuscation of the topic)

Surrendering to and Supporting the instigation of force over the will of others is evil.

For the LDS church to file as a 501c3 is supporting the force of will over others.

If the early pioneers had ‘suffered’ the law of consecration and retained religious sovereignty, then the loss of state sovereignty could have been mitigated and retained by a true church interposition.

The Laws of this nation were established protect the inviolate practices of religions. If the early saints had followed and enacted the law of consecration as stewards of ‘church’ property there would be no income tax, property tax, etc. imposed on the members/stewards of the LDS church ‘activities.

It was a failure in the previous generations that we are seeing the effects of now, and can fully grasp the wisdom of today.

There was no forced lien on food, clothing, shelter, personal production, pursuits or enterprise in those days and the wisdom of the law of consecration could not be appreciated.

It was a failing that has now cost us more than our fathers could have ever known.

[Jason]

Hopefully now that we are past the semantics breakdown. (and I do appreciate the clarity, Jason, even through the obfuscation of the topic)

Surrendering to and Supporting the instigation of force over the will of others is evil.

For the LDS church to file as a 501c3 is supporting the force of will over others.

If the early pioneers had ‘suffered’ the law of consecration and retained religious sovereignty, then the loss of state sovereignty could have been mitigated and retained by a true church interposition.

The Laws of this nation were established protect the inviolate practices of religions. If the early saints had followed and enacted the law of consecration as stewards of ‘church’ property there would be no income tax, property tax, etc. imposed on the members/stewards of the LDS church ‘activities.

It was a failure in the previous generations that we are seeing the effects of now, and can fully grasp the wisdom of today.

There was no forced lien on food, clothing, shelter, personal production, pursuits or enterprise in those days and the wisdom of the law of consecration could not be appreciated.

It was a failing that has now cost us more than our fathers could have ever known.

So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and @#$, with the edge of the sword.

http://lds.org/scriptures/ot/josh/6?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rand]

Hopefully now that we are past the semantics breakdown. (and I do appreciate the clarity, Jason, even through the obfuscation of the topic)

Surrendering to and Supporting the instigation of force over the will of others is evil.

For the LDS church to file as a 501c3 is supporting the force of will over others.

If the early pioneers had ‘suffered’ the law of consecration and retained religious sovereignty, then the loss of state sovereignty could have been mitigated and retained by a true church interposition.

The Laws of this nation were established protect the inviolate practices of religions. If the early saints had followed and enacted the law of consecration as stewards of ‘church’ property there would be no income tax, property tax, etc. imposed on the members/stewards of the LDS church ‘activities.

It was a failure in the previous generations that we are seeing the effects of now, and can fully grasp the wisdom of today.

There was no forced lien on food, clothing, shelter, personal production, pursuits or enterprise in those days and the wisdom of the law of consecration could not be appreciated.

It was a failing that has now cost us more than our fathers could have ever known.

Freedom is more powerful than liberty. It seems freedom to choose is an internal entity and not harmable by any outside entity without your permission. If we are humble, trust God and forgive freely, there can be no force imposed upon us from the outside. Our liberty can be removed, but not our freedom (the power to choose).

Romans 13:1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." According to this, anyone who does anything to you, does so only because God allows it, ie the lamanites capturing Alma and his people. So how is this a loss of freedom?

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

God doesn't do force, He delivers us up to our fate and withdraws protection. To many of the prophets, that looked just like God striking them down and the net result was the same, but He didn't do it, they did with their own agency by the eternal laws that not even God could violate (He became God by mastery of them). The scriptures use colorful wording, but to take them as 100% literal would mean that God was an angry, mean, vengeful guy. Were that so, we could exercise no faith in Him nor expect mercy to circumvent His wrath.

Killing/striking someone is just like any other physical act, it has an equal and or opposite reaction (recoil). You can't mingle in judgment without becoming tainted by it. For that reason God "delivers us up" to those whose business it is. True He is the judge, but not the executioner (reference 4 angels etc...).

[SpeedRacer]

After the 3 fold mission of the church was changed to the 4 fold mission, which I thought was included in the 3 fold but added the helping the poor for emphasis, I have noticed more and more in my BoM the emphasis that is placed on helping the poor. I noticed the extreme condemnation for not taking care of them.

The object of the Law of Consecration was to have no poor among them. It was stated in the last GC that our version of the law of consecration is the fund from fast offerings. If you think about it, you will see the divinity in the plan. There are no requirements to participate in any way shape or form. Your contributions are between you and the Lord. If you decide you want to live the law of consecration to the fullest that you can without a united order it is available to you. You can set everything in order, make a budget, live by it, save for a rainy day, and give the rest in your fast offering once a month. In this you are consecrating your means to the Lord. Your time and talents are consecrated by your service to your family, your calling, and your daily interactions.

[Jason]

God doesn't do force, He delivers us up to our fate and withdraws protection. To many of the prophets, that looked just like God striking them down and the net result was the same, but He didn't do it, they did with their own agency by the eternal laws that not even God could violate (He became God by mastery of them). The scriptures use colorful wording, but to take them as 100% literal would mean that God was an angry, mean, vengeful guy. Were that so, we could exercise no faith in Him nor expect mercy to circumvent His wrath.

Killing/striking someone is just like any other physical act, it has an equal and or opposite reaction (recoil). You can't mingle in judgment without becoming tainted by it. For that reason God "delivers us up" to those whose business it is. True He is the judge, but not the executioner (reference 4 angels etc...).

And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.

http://lds.org/scriptures/ot/num/15.36?lang=eng#35" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

God does do force and the scriptures are full of evidence....whether directly (the great flood, Red Sea, sermons of the earth...control via the word of His mouth) or indirectly (via Israelites, Nephites, Lamanites, wicked, destroying angels, etc.).....

Does it really matter? The reality is you either keep the Lord's commandments....or you don't. If you don't you will suffer consequences - whether it be of God or man. You can repent and repentance ultimately means changing from following after your own will to keeping the Lord's commandments and being obedient unto His will. The choice is yours!

Faith resides in a God that will forgive (withhold justice or vengeful force) when one reconciles one's will to God's will and is obedient from that time forth in keeping His commandments. Not in a God that won't use force. Lucifer fell because he wanted to pursue his will against the Father through the use of force.....and thus was forced or cast out of heaven.

In fact faith even revolves around the belief that God will use force to avenge us of our enemies (right the wrongs...or justice). Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess....

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all amen, both free and bond, both small and great.

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/rev/19?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Force is the ultimate reality check....and it always comes down to force when you have opposing wills. One will force the other will to subside - whether offensive or defensive it matters not in terms of defining force.

And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought against Michael;

And the dragon prevailed not against Michael, neither the child, nor the woman which was the church of God, who had been delivered of her pains, and brought forth the kingdom of our God and his Christ.

Neither was there place found in heaven for the great dragon, who was cast out; that old serpent called the devil, and also called Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into the earth; and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ;

For the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

http://lds.org/scriptures/jst/jst-rev/12.6?lang=eng#5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/rev/20?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/rev/22?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

Absolutely it matters. How can you have faith within your life that He will sustain you if you believe that God is vengeful and brutal to the imperfect? Sure you may have faith in the hereafter, but faith now, not so much. I absolutely need to know that He has my back right now and only can if He is the God of love and not vengeful justice.

God commands us to put bad people to death absolutely but that doesn't tie His hand into the act (or why bother, He could just strike them down).

I certainly understand your position, but I maintain mine.

[Jason]

Absolutely it matters. How can you have faith within your life that He will sustain you if you believe that God is vengeful and brutal to the imperfect? Sure you may have faith in the hereafter, but faith now, not so much. I absolutely need to know that He has my back right now and only can if He is the God of love and not vengeful justice.

God commands us to put bad people to death absolutely but that doesn't tie His hand into the act (or why bother, He could just strike them down).

I certainly understand your position, but I maintain mine.

Its in the "trying"....if you are trying - yes. If you are not - no.

Just reality. Most want a perception of God that leaves out wrath and anger against the wicked....because they are wicked. Its like most Christians never discussing the Jesus that braided a whip and cleared the temple. We take faith in knowing that there is also love and mercy involved versus the selfishness of the adversary....and that ultimately the chastening is for our own good. But at the end of the day, its still force although for correction, judgment, and punishment for our benefit....not to benefit another. For example when people are so wrapped up in sin.....it becomes merciful to wipe them out (put an end to the sinning). Thus I wouldn't phrase it as "vengeful and brutal"....

What good parent out there doesn't use a little force on occasion to correct a wayward child?

If you absolutely need to know that He has your back right now and only can have faith if He is the God of love and not vengeful justice.....then I think you only have half the story. Its far more than love vs. vengeful justice. Justice can only be appeased by repentance (as a result of the Savior's paying the purchase price to obtain the keys of death and hell).....and repentance means becoming obedient to God's will and keeping all His commandments. Thus obedience to commandments is the only real solution. The faith comes in a God that is not a respecter of persons and is bound by His word.....unchangeable - not a liar from the beginning. The knowledge that one can repent and become obedient to God's will and reap the rewards for doing so (not cast off) provides faith to exercise repentance. And that faith cannot be based upon mere earthly experiences as the Lord will try (test) His people as to their obedience to His commandments. The Lord had Obinadi's back.....but in this life that back was roasted.

That said, I think love is what provides the desire (probably the point you are trying to make and I have been slow to pick up on). Knowing that He would sacrifice His own son for our benefit (allow us the opportunity to return to obedience - repent).

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/heb/12.7?lang=eng#6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:

For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

http://lds.org/scriptures/ot/prov/3.11?lang=eng#10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be, by the things which they suffer.

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... lang=eng#5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And it came to pass that in this year Nephi did cry unto the Lord, saying:

Lord, do not suffer that this people shall be destroyed by the sword; but O Lord, rather let there be a famine in the land, to stir them up in remembrance of the Lord their God, and perhaps they will repent and turn unto thee.

And so it was done, according to the words of Nephi. And there was a great famine upon the land, among all the people of Nephi. And thus in the seventy and fourth year the famine did continue, and the work of destruction did cease by the sword but became sore by famine.

And this work of destruction did also continue in the seventy and fifth year. For the earth was smitten that it was dry, and did not yield forth grain in the season of grain; and the whole earth was smitten, even among the Lamanites as well as among the Nephites, so that they were smitten that they did perish by thousands in the more wicked parts of the land.

And it came to pass that the people saw that they were about to perish by famine, and they began to remember the Lord their God; and they began to remember the words of Nephi.

And it came to pass that when Nephi saw that the people had repented and did humble themselves in sackcloth, he cried again unto the Lord, saying:

Lord, behold this people repenteth; and they have swept away the band of Gadianton from amongst them insomuch that they have become extinct, and they have concealed their secret plans in the earth.

Now, O Lord, because of this their humility wilt thou turn away thine anger, and let thine anger be appeased in the destruction of those wicked men whom thou hast already destroyed.

O Lord, wilt thou turn away thine anger, yea, thy fierce anger, and cause that this famine may cease in this land.

O Lord, wilt thou hearken unto me, and cause that it may be done according to my words, and send forth rain upon the face of the earth, that she may bring forth her fruit, and her grain in the season of grain.

O Lord, thou didst hearken unto my words when I said, Let there be a famine, that the pestilence of the sword might cease; and I know that thou wilt, even at this time, hearken unto my words, for thou saidst that: If this people repent I will spare them.

http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/hel/11.5?lang=eng#4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... ang=eng#37" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How oft have I called upon you by the mouth of my servants, and by the ministering of angels, and by mine own voice, and by the voice of thunderings, and by the voice of lightnings, and by the voice of tempests, and by the voice of earthquakes, and great hailstorms, and by the voice of famines and pestilences of every kind, and by the great sound of a trump, and by the voice of judgment, and by the voice of mercy all the day long, and by the voice of glory and honor and the riches of eternal life, and would have saved you with an everlasting salvation, but ye would not!

Behold, the day has come, when the cup of the wrath of mine indignation is full.

And the wicked shall go away into unquenchable fire, and their end no man knoweth on earth, nor ever shall know, until they come before me in judgment.

Hearken ye to these words. Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world. Treasure these things up in your hearts, and let the solemnities of eternity rest upon your minds.

Be sober. Keep all my commandments. Even so. Amen.

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... ang=eng#24" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I, the Lord, have suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted, in consequence of their transgressions;

Yet I will own them, and they shall be mine in that day when I shall come to make up my jewels.

Therefore, they must needs be chastened and tried, even as Abraham, who was commanded to offer up his only son.

For all those who will not endure chastening, but deny me, cannot be sanctified.

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... lang=eng#4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding.

And inasmuch as they erred it might be made known;

And inasmuch as they sought wisdom they might be instructed;

And inasmuch as they sinned they might be chastened, that they might repent;

And inasmuch as they were humble they might be made strong, and blessed from on high, and receive knowledge from time to time.

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... ang=eng#26" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And thus we see that except the Lord doth chasten his people with many afflictions, yea, except he doth visit them with death and with terror, and with famine and with all manner of pestilence, they will not remember him.

http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/hel/12.3?lang=eng#2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... lang=eng#5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... ang=eng#20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

It would be interesting to know how badly Christ physically injured the money changers that day. I think it would be instructive too. The overwhelming evidence is that God and Christ have withheld their hands (notwithstanding the immense depravity of this world) to the point that it is extremely difficult to lay anything on their account.

But this is beside the point. I do not lay the satisfaction of justice within their hands. I see them as Judge and advocate not executioner. Satan stands across the line of judgment ready to administer punishment, it's his role.

[Jason]

It would be interesting to know how badly Christ physically injured the money changers that day. I think it would be instructive too. The overwhelming evidence is that God and Christ have withheld their hands (notwithstanding the immense depravity of this world) to the point that it is extremely difficult to lay anything on their account.

But this is beside the point. I do not lay the satisfaction of justice within their hands. I see them as Judge and advocate not executioner. Satan stands across the line of judgment ready to administer punishment, it's his role.

Perhaps....in my reading the scriptures are littered with evidence to the contrary....but to each their own!

As I understand it....Jesus Christ is our advocate with the Father.....and Satan is the accuser (testifying to our wickedness to ensure that he has company in hell - and thus his efforts to have lots of souls to accuse). As for executioners....destroying angels. All that said....does it matter if the boss fires you directly or through proxy...does it not boil down to the boss pulling the trigger? To my knowledge....Lucifer didn't cast himself and companions out of heaven.

[Original_Intent]

It would be interesting to know how badly Christ physically injured the money changers that day. I think it would be instructive too. The overwhelming evidence is that God and Christ have withheld their hands (notwithstanding the immense depravity of this world) to the point that it is extremely difficult to lay anything on their account.

But this is beside the point. I do not lay the satisfaction of justice within their hands. I see them as Judge and advocate not executioner. Satan stands across the line of judgment ready to administer punishment, it's his role.

If you jump off a cliff, do you break the law of gravity or break yourself against it? Who punishes you for your choice, God, Satan, or the law? Satan defintely is the accuser, God certainly passes judgement, but I would propose that punishment is the law itself. And only a higher law, of an innocent willingly suffering the consequence for the law that you broke can deliver us from taking those consequences ourselves.

[Jason]

It would be interesting to know how badly Christ physically injured the money changers that day. I think it would be instructive too. The overwhelming evidence is that God and Christ have withheld their hands (notwithstanding the immense depravity of this world) to the point that it is extremely difficult to lay anything on their account.

But this is beside the point. I do not lay the satisfaction of justice within their hands. I see them as Judge and advocate not executioner. Satan stands across the line of judgment ready to administer punishment, it's his role.

If you jump off a cliff, do you break the law of gravity or break yourself against it? Who punishes you for your choice, God, Satan, or the law? Satan defintely is the accuser, God certainly passes judgement, but I would propose that punishment is the law itself. And only a higher law, of an innocent willingly suffering the consequence for the law that you broke can deliver us from taking those consequences ourselves.

Somebody has to enforce the laws....and its usually those who sustain the laws. Amalickiah may have tossed himself off the spiritual cliff.....but it takes a Captain Moroni to enforce the laws (ultimately Teancum took care of that one).

What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... ang=eng#37" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.

http://lds.org/scriptures/ot/num/15.36?lang=eng#35" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.

If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the Lord hath not sent me.

But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord.

And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:

And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.

They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.

http://lds.org/scriptures/ot/num/16.32?lang=eng#31" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[tsc]

It would be interesting to know how badly Christ physically injured the money changers that day. I think it would be instructive too. The overwhelming evidence is that God and Christ have withheld their hands (notwithstanding the immense depravity of this world) to the point that it is extremely difficult to lay anything on their account.

But this is beside the point. I do not lay the satisfaction of justice within their hands. I see them as Judge and advocate not executioner. Satan stands across the line of judgment ready to administer punishment, it's his role.

Sorry but I must disagree - God and Christ have destroyed, and will continue to destroy the wicked:

3 Nephi - chapter 9

1 And it came to pass that there was a voice heard among all the inhabitants of the earth, upon all the face of this land, crying:

2 Wo, wo, wo unto this people; wo unto the inhabitants of the whole earth except they shall repent; for the devil laugheth, and his angels rejoice, because of the slain of the fair sons and daughters of my people; and it is because of their iniquity and abominations that they are fallen!

3 Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof.

4 And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned.

5 And behold, that great city Moronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them.

6 And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth;

7 Yea, and the city of Onihah and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Mocum and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Jerusalem and the inhabitants thereof; and waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come up any more unto me against them.

8 And behold, the city of Gadiandi, and the city of Gadiomnah, and the city of Jacob, and the city of Gimgimno, all these have I caused to be sunk, and made hills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I buried up in the depths of the earth, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up any more unto me against them.

9 And behold, that great city Jacobugath, which was inhabited by the people of king Jacob, have I caused to be burned with fire because of their sins and their awickedness, which was above all the wickedness of the whole earth, because of their secret murders and combinations; for it was they that did destroy the peace of my people and the government of the land; therefore I did cause them to be burned, to destroy them from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up unto me any more against them.

10 And behold, the city of Laman, and the city of Josh, and the city of Gad, and the city of Kishkumen, have I caused to be burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof, because of their wickedness in casting out the prophets, and stoning those whom I did send to declare unto them concerning their wickedness and their abominations.

11And because they did cast them all out, that there were none righteous among them, I did send down fire and destroy them, that their wickedness and abominations might be hid from before my bface, that the blood of the prophets and the saints whom I sent among them might not cry unto me cfrom the ground against them.

12 And amany great destructions have I caused to come upon this land, and upon this people, because of their wickedness and their abominations.

[sovereignthink]

Instigating Force is Evil. Original Force is evil.

It is a principle of heaven, before the earth was created, before gravity.


Freedom agency vs enforced will.

Instigating and Forcing our will on those that are not originally forcing their will on us individually is an act of evil. Just as accepting, surrendering and lending aid and comfort to original force is an act of evil.

The Law of Consecration was not to ensure that there was no poor.

The object of the Law of Consecration was to ensure that our works were not used for evil. That our stewardship was protected as in-a-Lien-able from original force, from an involuntary lien; that might attempt to convert the pure, good actions and pursuits into other evil acts of original force; through the protection of church interposition and nullification against the State.

The Law of Consecration was a voluntary insurance policy against involuntary policey enforcement.

As for ‘Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers’? Man is equal with man and is not a higher power unto itself on this earth. Or to say it another way; the might of man over another is not a ‘higher’ power unto which we surrender. Tyranny, unlawful government and coercion are not higher powers unto which we surrender. Gravity, Death and Free Agency are higher powers.

Force must be resisted first with turning the other cheek, then the other, then with a return of force and an olive branch.

Sins that are personal and voluntary, such as prostitution, gay marriage, etc., cannot have force used as a reaction without violating the laws and commandments of heaven. These sins must be met with example, patience, wisdom and forgiveness; but never with force.

Original Force is the original Evil. It comes before the sin of disobeying Gods will in Eden; for it is defying the Original Law of Heaven.

The Law of Consecration in a Church that is Truly Sovereign and Purely Free from the Original en-Forcement of man and government could have offered Church Interposition and protection of our food, clothing, shelter, life, liberty and pursuits of individual Latter Day Sainthood.

It could have freed and protected all of the works from enforcement and supporting the work of the great beast.

I fear that the mountains will swallow us for not understanding the support that we give to Federal and State Original Enforcement against the higher powers of Free Agency; for surrendering our lives, sacred honour and church to involuntary regulation enforcement.