Parents charged in death of vitamin def. breastfed baby!

[keeprunning]

JST Gen 9:11 “And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands.”

D&C 49:21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need.

D&C 89:15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

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IMO, those mean what they say. They don't say to not eat it ever. They say do not kill animals unless you need them for food. Don't go around killing life just for fun. Do it to save your life (self defense) or for when you need food to feed your family.

Sparingly not only means that we should just eat a small amount, but also means that we should not just eat the muscle meats and then throw the rest away. Making stocks and broths from the skin, cartilage, and bones extends more very valuble nutrients and soothing gelatin. We should not discard organ meats either, especially in times of famine. Those organs will provide essential nutrients that will be difficult to obtain elsewhere.

We need to work at being more self-reliant physically. We should ideally be healthy enough to be able to handle all good, wholesome foods. If our bodies are so unhealthy that we will get ill if we consume dairy, meat, grains, or beans, then we should be working to overcome that weakness.

[Obiwan]

On the whole eating meat thing... seems you have overlooked what the Lord said in D&C 89 after asking that meat only be used sparingly...

"Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine."

So it's pleasing unto the Lord that we not eat meat, except in times of winter/cold/famine.

I would recommend you read what I've wrote on this in my posts above. Your interpretation is false.
To give you a brief "overview", the usage of the word "not" is Old English.... It's the using of a negative word to describe a positive. If the intent was to "ban" the eating of those things ONLY in Winter, etc., then the verse would have been written like verse 15, and the word "not" wouldn't have been included. As well, given the historical events at the time, such as with the Shakers, it's clear that the verse wasn't banning the eating of meat.

And if there is confusion about what exactly that means, Joseph Smith and others helped clear it up... Joseph Smith taught on several occasions the idea of only eating meat to save your life (i.e. when other food wasn't available).

Here's just one source of multiple:

In pitching my tent we found three massasaugas or prairie rattlesnakes, which the brethren were about to kill, but I said, "Let them alone -- don't hurt them! How will the serpent ever lose its venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition, and continue to make war upon it? Men must become harmless before the brute creation, and when men lose their vicious dispositions and cease to destroy the animal race, the lion and the lamb can dwell together, and the sucking child can play with the serpent in safety." The brethren took the serpents carefully on sticks and carried them across the creek. I exhorted the brethren not to kill a serpent, bird, or an animal of any kind during our journey unless it became necessary in order to preserve ourselves from hunger. (May 26, 1834.) D.H.C. 2:71.

Your quote from history also doesn't mean what you think it means, you are also misinterpreting it.
First Joseph was teaching them to not kill wantingly, thus unnecessarily. Second, they were "wild" creatures, and if you read the Word of Wisdom, it is "Wild" creatures that should ONLY be eaten during winter, famine, etc. Third, you ignore the fact that Joseph and the rest of the Saints were STILL eating MEAT at the time. They ate cow, dear, etc. Thus, you are misusing this quote from history using it to try and support your position, when the full facts tell a different story.

I'm not vegetarian or vegan, but I thought I should at least contribute some statements from modern prophets on this topic.

Thank you, but you are in error.... Thus you are only adding to the confusion.

Bottom line, the command is to eat meat sparringly, and those who forbide it are not of God. That's the bottom line with all the facts. Personal "feelings" that go contrary to these facts, the Word of God, are just that contrary. Even the prophets have sometimes had a personal opinion. When we look at their words, we must weigh them against all the facts. The Bible scriptures aren't corrupt, the D&C scriptures aren't corrupt, the words of the modern Prophets aren't corrupt, etc. All three of these teach that meat IS to be eaten. People can't say the Bible is corrupt unless you actually know it is by showing SOME EVIDENCE of it. It should be noted that most of the corruption that is in the Bible is actually "private interpretation" by the various religions and missing and slightly changed scripture. I don't know of ANY evidence which shows these particular scriptures as "corrupt" do you all? Further, since the Bible conforms to all the other sources and facts, it's clear it is not corrupt, but those who are embracing this New Age ideology and religion that is Veganism or not accurately interpreting things.

[Obiwan]

As earlier referenced, a great many verses in the Bible have become corrupted and are not correct...whereby a great many to stumble. (1 Neph 13:21-29)

And as I say above.... Prove it.

The following scriptures are directly from God to the prophet Joseph Smith. I know they are correct. They are simple and very plain. They stand on their own with no special interpretation necessary. They are so simple and plain that a typical four-year-old can easily understand them. A typical four-year-old would also believe them. To get any other meaning other than what the very plain and simple and precise words say, one would have to bend and twist the words and phrases all around...as you have attempted to do repeatedly, above.

They do indeed stand on their own, but YOU are perverting them and their intent to suit YOUR OWN ideology.
You are doing the same thing anti-mormons and Christians of other religions do when they interpret various things of the Bible incorrectly and also try to condemn LDS with them.

I believe and trust God. I do not believe nor trust you.

If you believed God, you would follow the Word, not your own interpretations by the ignoring of facts.

Here are the verses, as referenced earlier. As when referenced before, no fancy interpretations or explanations are necessary. They stand on their own. This is precisely what God really has said on this issue, in very plain and simple language. The reader should feel free to look them up for themselves in their own scriptures, and read as much of the surrounding scriptures that they might feel to be necessary to ensure their full context.

You are very "dismissive" to facts and truth. You should be concerned by that.

JST Gen 9:11 “And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands.”

Yes, the blood of every beast shall be on us. God is telling us not to WASTE meat.
You are "adding" to the scripture, trying to say it is saying things it doesn't say or imply. You are doing exactly the same thing as Christians do when they try to say "God is Only Spirit" by that verse that say's God is a spirit or is spirit. The original language we know that it's supposed to say God is spirit. That's not saying God is ONLY spirit. Further, other scriptures make show the similar language when referring to man, etc. Thus, it's a false interpretation to say God is ONLY spirit.

This is a good example.... Because you belittle further facts and understanding as "fancy interpretations"... Not realizing that the FULL FACTS of things are "paramount" to an accurate and truthful understanding of some subjects. Without the LDS "fancy interpretation" we wouldn't be able to show Christian interpretation false, at least from a Biblical and historical view.

D&C 49:21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need.

Again, as I said above, nothing to do with your claim. This verse talks about "wasting" flesh unneedingly.

D&C 89:15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

And, you take scripture out of it's context just like anti-mormons do in order to make your point.
The verse prior to this verse is specifically talking about Wild Animals and other "creeping" things. Regular meat is ALREADY talked about in prior verses, and they say they are to be eaten "sparingly". Thus, you are embracing a "private" interpretation, one not actually from God as you claim.

I believe God's own words. I trust God. I have never been in a time of famine or excess of hunger in my entire life. There is no such thing as a nutritional-animal-product-deficiency...no supplementation is necessary. My entire family's spectacular health, strength, vigor and energy are a testament to that; together with Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego -- whose exceptional health was also a testament to that fact in their day.

You are not believing God's own words, you are believing your own perverted interpretation over what the words actually say.
How can you even say that, that there is "no such thing as an animal product nutritian deficiency"??? This entire thread was above an example of such a thing. You are living in serious denial, just like anti-mormons do. So invested in your ideology about a thing, you completely ignore the necessary facts which would change an objective persons view.

You also pervert the story of the above four faithful of God. First, you are a hypocrite..... after all why isn't that story "false" like apparently everything else in the Bible per your view? Second, the Kings food was obviously unhealthy, glutonous food. Obviously, they did a system cleansing on themselves, that there action was a form of a "Fast". Nothing wrong with that. But that is far different from living life as a Vegan. You are again applying your own ideology on a story that says nothing about such.

No-one is denying benefits of a body cleansing.... No-one is denying the benefits of eathing healthier.... None of these things say one should be a Vegan, especially God saying it. Even more, God has specially said NOT to be a Vegan, and he's specifically said that meat is to be eaten sparingly. You aren't trusting God, you're leaning upon your own judgment and calling it God. I've shown clearly why your judgments are flawed, are not of God. So, who is really leaning upon God? Your feelings are not "God" anymore than anti-mormon feelings about Mormonism and their own theology is "of God". Truth is the Truth.... Not feelings. Feelings should be based on truth and facts, the FULL EVIDENCES, not the ignoring and ommision of facts and truth like you are doing by calling and dismissing them as "fancy explainations". Most people who don't have your ideology can clearly see the standard LDS view on these scriptures, without needing "fancy explainations". Thus, your claim that a 4 year old sees the same as you is also flawed. Only a 4 year old that doesn't pay attention to the details makes such a view, just as you have done. Not surprising a 4 year old would think the same as you.... They after all don't have the intellectual skills yet, and also just follow along with whatever you teach them it says.

[dconrad000]

As I've said all along, you go ahead and eat meat if you want -- whenever you want. However, you are out of order for forbidding me to abstain (that man should not eat the same). You are also out of order for forbidding Daniel, Shadrach Meshach and Abednego to abstain. You go ahead and use your definition of sparingly, which is totally subjective and can be whatever you decide for it to be. I will use the definition of sparingly which the Lord was kind enough to give those with ears to hear...because without His definition -- the word sparingly is meaningless -- because it means whatever a person of themself, designates it to mean, and they use it to their detriment. You ask just about anybody in the Church if they think they are consuming animal products sparingly, and most of them will tell you yes...because they are, according to their own definition, which is subjective...and a very high and alarming percentage are succombing to the Destroying Angel of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, auto-immune disorders, endocrinological disorders, neurological disorders, arthritis, osteoporosis...and the list goes on, and on...and these are people who many of them have never smoked, drank alcohol, coffee or tea, or done "recreational" drugs in their entire lives. On the other hand, those enumerated diseases, and many others -- are extremely rare amongst those who choose to abstain from all animal products, except in times of famine or excess of hunger. The wonderful and marvelous Promise of the Word of Wisdom is real -- especially for those who choose to live it according to the Lord's definition of sparingly -- not their own.

[creator]

I trust the "opinions" and "interpretations" of the Lord's prophets over that of others...

Brigham Young, President of the Church, 6 April 1868"

A thorough reformation is needed in regard to our eating and drinking, and on this point I will freely express myself, and shall be glad if the people will hear, believe and obey. If the people were willing to receive the true knowledge from heaven in regard to their diet they would cease eating swine’s flesh. I know this as well as Moses knew it, and without putting it in a code of commandments. [“Necessity of Obeying Counsel—Reformation in Eating and Drinking—Improvements—Female Relief Societies—Chastity,” reported by G. D. Watt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 12 (Liverpool: Albert Carrington, 1869), p. 192.]

Brigham Young, President of the Church, 19 July 1877:

Swine’s flesh . . . is more susceptible of diseases than any other flesh that we eat. It is not like fish or fowl. It is susceptible of disease of every kind, and will impregnate the system with disease far quicker than any other food that we eat. [“Relief Societies—Talk to Mothers—Improvement Societies—Domestic Matters—Training Children—Home Production—Silk Interests,” reported by James Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol. 19 (Liverpool: William Budge, 1878), p. 67.]

George Q. Cannon of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, 7 April 1868:

We are told that swine’s flesh is not good, and that we should dispense with it; and we are told that flesh of any kind is not suitable to man in the summer time, and ought to be eaten sparingly in the winter. [“Word of Wisdom—Fish Culture—Dietetics,” reported by David W. Evans, Journal of Discourses, vol. 12 (Liverpool: Albert Carrington, 1869), pp. 221–22.]

Son-in-law of George Albert Smith, President of the Church

In the summer, he [President Smith] eats no meat, and even in the winter months he eats very little. [in Gerald E. Jones, PhD Dissertation entitled Concern for Animals as Manifest in Five American Churches: Bible Christian, Shaker, Latter-day Saint, Christian Scientist, and Seventh-Day Adventist (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University, 1972), p. 111.]

Heber J. Grant, President of the Church, 1 October 1937

It is no hardship to me to eat meat sparingly. I lived for several years, during the winter time, in the Utah Hotel and I am sure that not more than ten or a dozen times did I order meat, and then it was some small lamb chops; no pork, no turkey, no chicken, no veal of any kind did I ever eat during that time at the cafeteria. [in Conference Report, October 1937, p. 14.]

Heber J. Grant, President of the Church, 4 April 1937

I think that another reason why I have very splendid strength for an old man is that during the years we have had a cafeteria in the Utah Hotel, I have not, with the exception of not more than a dozen times, ordered meat of any kind. On these special occasions I have mentioned I have perhaps had a small, tender lamb chop. I have endeavored to live the Word of Wisdom, and that, in my opinion, is one reason for my good health. [in Conference Report, April 1937, p. 15.]

Lorenzo Snow, President of the Quorum of the Twelve, 11 March 1897

[President Lorenzo Snow] introduced the subject of the Word of Wisdom, expressing the opinion that it was violated as much or more in the improper use of meat as in other things, and thought the time was near at hand when the Latter-day Saints should be taught to refrain from meat eating and the shedding of animal blood. [in Journal History of the Church, 11 March 1897, LDS Archives; see also Leonard J. Arrington, “An Economic Interpretation of the ‘Word of Wisdom,’ ” Brigham Young University Studies, vol. 1, no. 1 (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, Winter 1959), p. 47.]

Jessie E. Smith, Wife of Joseph Fielding Smith, President of the Church

My husband doesn’t eat meat [but rather] lots of fruit and vegetables. [in Gerald E. Jones, PhD Dissertation entitled Concern for Animals as Manifest in Five American Churches: Bible Christian, Shaker, Latter-day Saint, Christian Scientist, and Seventh-Day Adventist (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University, 1972), p. 118.]

John A. Widstoe of the Quorum of the Twelve, 1937

It was shown early in the history of plant science, but after the Word of Wisdom was received, that plants contained all of the necessary food substances: Proteins (flesh-formers), fats, starches and other carbohydrates, minerals and water. . . .

The great Builder of the earth provided well for the physical needs of His children. Countless varieties of edible plants, vegetables, cereals, fruits and nuts are yielded by Mother Nature for man’s daily food. . . .

Modern research has shown as already indicated that all of the necessary food constituents are found in plants. From that point of view, vegetarianism should be practicable. . . .

The Word of Wisdom does not contain a prohibition against meat eating, but urges its sparing use. Unfortunately, this advice is not generally observed, and man’s health suffers in consequence. [The Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1937), pp. 126, 128, 135, 218; emphasis added.]

Brigham Young, President of the Church, 19 July 1877

Mothers, keep the children from eating meat. . . .

Now, sisters, will you take notice, and instruct those who are not here today, to adopt this rule—stop your children from eating meat, and especially fat meat. [“Relief Societies—Talk to Mothers—Improvement Societies—Domestic Matters—Training Children—Home Production—Silk Interests,” reported by James Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol. 19 (Liverpool: William Budge, 1878), pp. 67–68; spelling modernized.]

Joseph Fielding Smith, President of the Twelve, 30 Dec. 1966

This is my answer to you in relation to President Brigham Young's statement that mothers should not feed their small children meat. Yes! Small children do not need the flesh of animals. May I add also that adults would be better if they would refrain from too much eating of meat. As far as I am concerned the eating of meat should be very sparingly. In fact I will be contented if the Millennium was to be ushered in next week. When it is, we will learn that the eating of meat is not good for us. Why do we feel that we do not have a square meal unless it is based largely on meat. Let the dumb animals live. They enjoy life as well as we do.

In the beginning the Lord granted man the use of the flesh of certain animals. See Genesis 9:1-6, but with so many fruits of the soil and from the trees of the earth, why cannot man be content? Naturally in times of famine the flesh of animals was perhaps a necessity, but in my judgment when the Millennium reaches us, we will live above the need of killing dumb innocent animals and eating them. If we will take this stand in my judgment we may live longer. [In a letter to a member sister in El Paso, Texas, dated 30 Dec. 1966, quoted in Health Is A Blessing: A Guide to the Scriptural Laws of Good Health, by Steven H. Horne, advance publication copy (Springville, Utah: Nature’s Field, 1994), p. 34.]

Ezra Taft Benson, President of the Quorum of the Twelve, 4 March 1979

To a great extent we are physically what we eat. Most of us are acquainted with some of the prohibitions, such as no tea, coffee, tobacco, or alcohol. What need additional emphasis are the positive aspects—the need for vegetables, fruits, and grains, particularly wheat. In most cases, the closer these can be, when eaten, to their natural state—without overrefinement and processing—the healthier we will be. To a significant degree, we are an overfed and undernourished nation digging an early grave with our teeth, and lacking the energy that could be ours because we overindulge in junk foods. I am grateful to know that on this campus you can get apples from vending machines, that you have in your student center a fine salad bar, and that you produce an excellent loaf of natural whole-grain bread. Keep it up and keep progressing in that direction. We need a generation of young people who, as Daniel, eat in a more healthy manner than to fare on the “king's meat”—and whose countenances show it (see Daniel 1). [“In His Steps,” 1979 Devotional Speeches of the Year (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1980), p. 62.]