The Tiny Dot

[LoveIsTruth]

Look the reason you are kicking against the bricks and nashing your teeth is because you have already convicted your logic.

You admitted that the IP developed by someone was their property. You admitted it was wrong to take or copy that property without permission.

God asks you one simple question - "Did you get permission?"

Who cares if that permission is a c with a circle around it, clicking the yes box when installing software, right of first refusal, non-disclosure agreement, sales receipt,......or whatever legal contract or tool is used to represent permission from the inventor/creator/developer or their authorized representative through legal arrangement.

Did you get permission?

The only trump to that....that I am aware of....is permission from God (for example the Israelites were permitted/commanded to take others property since those people had refused to honor God and turned away from Him to their own wicked pursuits). The reason this is legal is because God created the world, us, and gave us talents and abilities.....and it all ultimately belongs to Him.

If you have gotten carte blanche go ahead from God to take another's property without permission.....so be it. If not I highly doubt President Benson would condone your behavior or your logic.....including the 300 gig of music/movies/etc. on your hard drive that you didn't obtain permission for!

And of course you are wrong again.

The question is not "Did you get permission?" But "Do you have the moral right to use FORCE on your neighbor, when he uses his copy machine to make a copy of your book if he made no contract with you, neither deprived you of the use of your property?"

The answer is resounding NO.

Therefore, you cannot delegate the authority to your government.

It is similar to these two questions: "Is it good to give charity to the poor?" The answer in most cases is yes. But "Is it right to FORCE your neighbor to give to the poor?" The answer is resounding NO; because you do not have moral right to do this, therefore you cannot ask your government to do it for you.

This is key principle, without which Liberty CANNOT survive and must be unavoidably destroyed. It is the Benson Principle. And current IP laws CLEARLY violate it. Therefore they are just as immoral as "forced charity" to the poor skims. It is IMMORAL, wrong, and destructive of the Liberty itself.

[Jason]

Look the reason you are kicking against the bricks and nashing your teeth is because you have already convicted your logic.

You admitted that the IP developed by someone was their property. You admitted it was wrong to take or copy that property without permission.

God asks you one simple question - "Did you get permission?"

Who cares if that permission is a c with a circle around it, clicking the yes box when installing software, right of first refusal, non-disclosure agreement, sales receipt,......or whatever legal contract or tool is used to represent permission from the inventor/creator/developer or their authorized representative through legal arrangement.

Did you get permission?

The only trump to that....that I am aware of....is permission from God (for example the Israelites were permitted/commanded to take others property since those people had refused to honor God and turned away from Him to their own wicked pursuits). The reason this is legal is because God created the world, us, and gave us talents and abilities.....and it all ultimately belongs to Him.

If you have gotten carte blanche go ahead from God to take another's property without permission.....so be it. If not I highly doubt President Benson would condone your behavior or your logic.....including the 300 gig of music/movies/etc. on your hard drive that you didn't obtain permission for!

And of course you are wrong again.

The question is not "Did you get permission?" But "Do you have the moral right to use FORCE on your neighbor, when he uses his copy machine to make a copy of your book if he made no contract with you, neither deprived you of the use of your property?"

The answer is resounding NO.

Therefore, you cannot delegate the authority to your government.

It is similar to these two questions: "Is it good to give charity to the poor?" The answer in most cases is yes. But "Is it right to FORCE your neighbor to give to the poor?" The answer is resounding NO; because you do not have moral right to do this, therefore you cannot ask your government to do it for you.

This is key principle, without which Liberty CANNOT survive and must be unavoidably destroyed. It is the Benson Principle. And current IP laws CLEARLY violate it. Therefore they are just as immoral as "forced charity" to the poor skims. It is IMMORAL, wrong, and destructive of the Liberty itself.

Well I reckon agree to disagree! We'll see how it shakes out at the judgment bar! I look forward to you answer to the question - "Did he/she give you permission to copy their property?"

You've already stated it was wrong.....so it shouldn't be hard to guess what the answer will be in the full blazing piercing Light of Christ!

I must thank you though as you have convinced me to destroy all the property on my hard drive that I didn't get permission from the owners for......and I must say it feels really good to repent! Thank you!

[LoveIsTruth]

love is lies,

In this case L in BrentL(ies).

your logic is so twisted. by the same reasoning, you should be able to drive your car across someone's land, because to deny you this right would be to tell you HOW you can use your car.

Land is tangible property. It is impossible to drive over it without depriving the owner of the simultaneous use of it. Therefore, driving over it without permission would be violating his property. Information is different, as been stated before.

the FACT is, that without the original, you cannot reproduce it. you cannot sit down and write a copy of THE LORD OF THE RINGS without reading it, or having a copy to begin with. that is the virtual landscape you are driving your car on. make up your own virtual land!

And your point is? Tangible and intangible property obeys the same laws? That is simply false.

the analogy of giving charity to the poor does not apply,

Because you say so? It applies perfectly!

a proper analogy would be, do you have a right to FORCE your neighbor to pay restitution for theft. go look that one up and see what the Benson Principle says.

What exactly was stolen? Are you saying you have the moral right to break your neighbor's door and by force prevent him from using his copy machine?

stop twisting the gospel to fit your preconceived philosophy of men.

Don't confuse "philosophy of men" with truth taught by an apostle.

[LoveIsTruth]

Well I reckon agree to disagree! We'll see how it shakes out at the judgment bar! I look forward to you answer to the question - "Did he/she give you permission to copy their property?"

You've already stated it was wrong.....so it shouldn't be hard to guess what the answer will be in the full blazing piercing Light of Christ!

I must thank you though as you have convinced me to destroy all the property on my hard drive that I didn't get permission from the owners for......and I must say it feels really good to repent! Thank you!

I am glad I could be of help!