Church members and basic doctrine

[freedomforall]

To answer Freedomfighter’s question “How is it that people who lean toward a socialistic lifestyle can become an LDS in the first place?” I can only suggest that many people join the Church not understanding various principles of the Gospel to begin with. My wife, who grew up and worked as a nurse in Denmark before I came along, still has difficulty accepting that socialized health care is not right.

On a bit of a tangent now, the record book of baptisms at the St. George Temple shows baptisms were not done for John Hancock nor for William Floyd at the same time they were done for the other 54 signers. A film of that record book can probably still be viewed at the Family History Center in SLC. It’s worth having a look at if one gets a chance. Just ask for the film of the record of baptisms at the St. George Temple for 1877.

Maybe the missionaries ought to have a lesson on freedom, not politics, and the adverse affects of socialism. And why not? God brought to pass our Constitution, therefore, it could be taught and compared to the circumstances around Moroni and the freedoms and liberty of that day, and the impending destruction of them. We are told to study and feast upon the word. Nowhere does it say we are not to talk about freedom and liberty. New prospects should be taught all aspects of the gospel, not just about Christ. Everything good is relative and applicable.

[LukeAir2008]

Its quite obvious why people accept socialism. It masquerades as charity and compassion for the less fortunate. I know an Iranian sister, a member of a ward in London, who's husband lives in Malaysia, who heard that if she came to England she could live for 'free' - 'gratis'. The UK Government pays her rent which is 750 pounds sterling, her council tax which is about 100 pounds and gives her 120 pounds a week for food. She thinks England is wonderful - so wonderful that she even joined the mormon church to appear more westernized and christian. She never questions where this money is coming from. She doesn't want to know. England is the land of milk and honey. Yes, the land of milk and honey with the worst deficit in Europe. She's now planning on moving to Scotland with her husband. They have a devolved parliament with responsiblity for local issues. So she'll get all of the above benefits - plus free university tuition fees! Yes socialism is wonderful isn't it.

[momto5]

John Hancock is a relative of mine and is in my family history. His baptism was done Aug 23, 1876. He was endowed May 30, 1877 at the St. George temple. He was sealed to Dorothy Quincy June 8, 1877 also at the St. George temple. He has also been sealed to his real parents. His uncle, Thomas I believe it was took him in. According to my mother he is sealed to them as well, by mistake. This information is posted on the familysearch website. These are listed with the LDS Church Temple Records as one of the contributors to the information. I would do more research before jumping to conclusions.

[Songbird]

In the long run and in the end, it is the principles of the Gospel that we need to be examining in our lives. Once we have a clear understanding of these things, then we understand how socialism etc do not fit in with the plan of happiness. It is a long study to be sure, but the results are worth it. We shouldn't be criticizing others for their country of origin or the way they have grown up to believe. The fact remains that we must all be purged of all things (through the teachings of Christ and the Holy Ghost), of erroneous ideas that Satan and his minions would have us believe. Let's take the motes out of our own eyes before we criticize others of theirs.

Keep being the light that you are English Saint...You are in Good Company!

[lundbaek]

It would be nice if new investigators were taught all aspects of the gospel, including the principles of freedom. When I was discussing the Gospel with missionaries and for a while after I was baptized there was nothing said to me about freedom and the US Constitution. Only after I took serious note of what President McKay, President Clark, Ezra Taft Benson, and a few other General Authorities were saying and writing about our responsibility to the US Constitution and its preservation did I start to catch on to those principles. And I had an advantage in already being more awake than most members to what was being referred to as a “secret combination”. But it was several years before I really began to pay attention to it. At the moment, there are a few of us in our stake and some in other stakes around here who are looking for ways to promote awareness among church members of these things.

While on a mission at the Family History Library with my wife 4 years ago I discovered the same info as Momto5 reported about John Hancock. I’ll look up William Floyd perhaps later, unless somebody else wants to.

Something Chris Bentley, LDS author of "A Glorious Standard Fot All Mankind" and "The Hidden Things Of Darkness" (both reviewed on this forum in the book review section) wrote the following about welfare a few years ago that I found enlightening:
“There were, however, some who interpreted the welfare clause as a general authority to the Congress to do whatever it felt was for the welfare of any person(s), groups, regions, or foreign nation(s). Probably most prominent among these was Alexander Hamilton. Initially, Hamilton’s views seemed to square with those of Madison, Adams, and Jefferson. But it appears that Hamilton veered from the Constitution after he became Secretary of Treasury of the United States, changed his opinion and maintained that the welfare clause in the Preamble allows the FedGov to do anything it thinks is for the welfare of anyone or any part of the country, even if it is not included in the “enumerted powers”, and even if it is for local or special welfare instead of for the general welfare. I believe this is what is used to justify the kind of welfare we have in America today”

[freedomforall]

Its quite obvious why people accept socialism. It masquerades as charity and compassion for the less fortunate. I know an Iranian sister, a member of a ward in London, who's husband lives in Malaysia, who heard that if she came to England she could live for 'free' - 'gratis'. The UK Government pays her rent which is 750 pounds sterling, her council tax which is about 100 pounds and gives her 120 pounds a week for food. She thinks England is wonderful - so wonderful that she even joined the mormon church to appear more westernized and christian. She never questions where this money is coming from. She doesn't want to know. England is the land of milk and honey. Yes, the land of milk and honey with the worst deficit in Europe. She's now planning on moving to Scotland with her husband. They have a devolved parliament with responsiblity for local issues. So she'll get all of the above benefits - plus free university tuition fees! Yes socialism is wonderful isn't it.

Good point.

[freedomforall]

In the long run and in the end, it is the principles of the Gospel that we need to be examining in our lives. Once we have a clear understanding of these things, then we understand how socialism etc do not fit in with the plan of happiness. It is a long study to be sure, but the results are worth it. We shouldn't be criticizing others for their country of origin or the way they have grown up to believe. The fact remains that we must all be purged of all things (through the teachings of Christ and the Holy Ghost), of erroneous ideas that Satan and his minions would have us believe. Let's take the motes out of our own eyes before we criticize others of theirs.

Keep being the light that you are English Saint...You are in Good Company!

Awesome, Songbird. Your statement brought to mind what we've been told all along...to feast upon the word.

How else could one know God's stand on liberty? How can one make an intelligent decision one way or another without knowing the difference, whether near or in faraway lands?

[sbsion]

church is all about doctrines of the church governed by the priesthood, and using what the prophet thinks of the gospel the people can handle at the time........like in Moses time

[freedomforall]

At the moment, there are a few of us in our stake and some in other stakes around here who are looking for ways to promote awareness among church members of these things.

What you have said here gives me the impression that the things The Brethren, including Joseph Smith, have been saying just might be coming to pass before our very eyes. It is that church members and other people will step forward and save the Constitution. It kind of gives me chills thinking about it.