Who did the most damage to the USA?

[p51-mustang]

Wilson and Roosevelt did the most damage and Obama is right up there with them, and then maybe Carter and Clinton.

Sadly you all have fallen for the liberal and nut spin machine believing the lies against Bush & Cheney. Bush wasn't perfect being a "social" conservative and all, but he was nothing close to those others. It is sad that so many call good evil and evil good willing to throw the baby out with the bath water and painting everyone as being the same as everyone else.

You are mormons, and should be better than ideologically supportive of moral equivalency and relativism. Bush and Cheney are nothing close to liberals, and you willingly embrace the "Bush derangement syndrome" propaganda machine rather than understanding what really happened and was done in their presidency's.

Who said anything about Bush being liberal? Most of the folks on this forum recognize Bush for who he his. A fascist puppet for the globalist bankers. And a socialist (at least thats what the RNC called him after he was out of office and they wanted to distance themselves from his dismal record)

[patriotsaint]

Wilson and Roosevelt did the most damage and Obama is right up there with them, and then maybe Carter and Clinton.

Sadly you all have fallen for the liberal and nut spin machine believing the lies against Bush & Cheney. Bush wasn't perfect being a "social" conservative and all, but he was nothing close to those others. It is sad that so many call good evil and evil good willing to throw the baby out with the bath water and painting everyone as being the same as everyone else.

You are mormons, and should be better than ideologically supportive of moral equivalency and relativism. Bush and Cheney are nothing close to liberals, and you willingly embrace the "Bush derangement syndrome" propaganda machine rather than understanding what really happened and was done in their presidency's.

Possibly the most foolish post I have read on this forum in recent memory. Let's just take one man off of your list....Bill Clinton and do a little comparison between him and GW Bush.

Who drove us deeper in debt....Bush or Clinton?
Who started more undeclared preemptive wars of aggression....Bush or Clinton?
Who signed more legislation that curtailed our liberties....Bush or Clinton? (patriot act, military commissions etc)
Who created more unconstitutional departments/agencies....Bush or Clinton? (DHS, TSA etc)
Who issued more unconstitutional executive orders....Bush or Clinton?

If you are going to spout neocon nonsense you better come backing it up. Some vague reference to "relativism" does not an argument make. Nobody here is claiming Obama, Clinton or the others are good either, so your accusation of calling evil good is also groundless.

What do you say, care to take the challenge and answer the questions I posed above? If you have the guts to do it you will discover that this blind mormon neocon paradigm you have invested in is nothing but smoke and mirrors.

[charles.fuqua]

It is none of the choices offered. The answer is "We the People"! Why? Because our polliticians are no more than a reflection of the populace. The did what WE allowed them to do. If we had been vigilant, none of this would be upon us. So, if it is to lay blame for the mess we are in is what you want.....go look in the mirror....ALL OF US!

[Jason]

Wilson and Roosevelt did the most damage and Obama is right up there with them, and then maybe Carter and Clinton.

Sadly you all have fallen for the liberal and nut spin machine believing the lies against Bush & Cheney. Bush wasn't perfect being a "social" conservative and all, but he was nothing close to those others. It is sad that so many call good evil and evil good willing to throw the baby out with the bath water and painting everyone as being the same as everyone else.

You are mormons, and should be better than ideologically supportive of moral equivalency and relativism. Bush and Cheney are nothing close to liberals, and you willingly embrace the "Bush derangement syndrome" propaganda machine rather than understanding what really happened and was done in their presidency's.

Possibly the most foolish post I have read on this forum in recent memory. Let's just take one man off of your list....Bill Clinton and do a little comparison between him and GW Bush.

Who drove us deeper in debt....Bush or Clinton?
Who started more undeclared preemptive wars of aggression....Bush or Clinton?
Who signed more legislation that curtailed our liberties....Bush or Clinton? (patriot act, military commissions etc)
Who created more unconstitutional departments/agencies....Bush or Clinton? (DHS, TSA etc)
Who issued more unconstitutional executive orders....Bush or Clinton?

If you are going to spout neocon nonsense you better come backing it up. Some vague reference to "relativism" does not an argument make. Nobody here is claiming Obama, Clinton or the others are good either, so your accusation of calling evil good is also groundless.

What do you say, care to take the challenge and answer the questions I posed above? If you have the guts to do it you will discover that this blind mormon neocon paradigm you have invested in is nothing but smoke and mirrors.

Do a search for LeeUniverse....and you'll get plenty more. Ignorance is bliss....at least until reality smacks you upside the head!

[Obiwan]

Everyone thinks everyone else is the "ignorant" ones. Personally I find those here the ignorant ones, such as your "lists". Your lists are nothing but misrepresentations and ignorance of those particular issues. I already indicated that he was a "social conservative" thus wasn't perfect in that way. But everything else you mention is misrepresented and frankly just wrong, such as your judgments as to the wars, so-called torture etc. These are ALL liberal misrepresentative talking points, and you all willingly suck it down as "truth".

As for "leeuniverse", I have known him for years in LDS apologetics, and he's a good smart guy, and we have similar interests. I see he was banned from this forum. Sad you all are for getting rid of people for simply not towing your conspiracy theory's line having a different viewpoint. Anti-mormons give their "lists" also, but that doesn't mean their judgements on each of those particular issues are truthful and accurate. Sorry, but your lists aren't either.

And fyi, I'm a former marine, a strong constitutionalist, a conservative, a faithful mormon, a republican, etc. all because of ideology and truth. I've spent my whole life observing people and living and experiencing different circumstances and different kinds of people, and my judgement is true. Your judgements are an extreme misrepresentation but toward the other side, just as wrong as the extreme left are. Step outside your box and realize there is MORE to things than you think with your lists and drive-by degradations.

[patriotsaint]

Wow Obiwan, not up for the challenge huh?

If we are ignorant and are posting misrepresentations please feel free to correct them. All you've done so far is complain without posting anything of substance. Back up your talk with some data instead of crowing vague neocon platitudes.

Take my list and answer the questions posed line by line with data...not rhetoric. I've had enough neocon rhetoric shoved down my throat to last me two lifetimes. And anyway, how is it an ignorant misrepresentation to ask a set of questions? Or are you just upset because you already know the answers?

[Jason]

Everyone thinks everyone else is the "ignorant" ones. Personally I find those here the ignorant ones, such as your "lists". Your lists are nothing but misrepresentations and ignorance of those particular issues. I already indicated that he was a "social conservative" thus wasn't perfect in that way. But everything else you mention is misrepresented and frankly just wrong, such as your judgments as to the wars, so-called torture etc. These are ALL liberal misrepresentative talking points, and you all willingly suck it down as "truth".

As for "leeuniverse", I have known him for years in LDS apologetics, and he's a good smart guy, and we have similar interests. I see he was banned from this forum. Sad you all are for getting rid of people for simply not towing your conspiracy theory's line having a different viewpoint. Anti-mormons give their "lists" also, but that doesn't mean their judgements on each of those particular issues are truthful and accurate. Sorry, but your lists aren't either.

And fyi, I'm a former marine, a strong constitutionalist, a conservative, a faithful mormon, a republican, etc. all because of ideology and truth. I've spent my whole life observing people and living and experiencing different circumstances and different kinds of people, and my judgement is true. Your judgements are an extreme misrepresentation but toward the other side, just as wrong as the extreme left are. Step outside your box and realize there is MORE to things than you think with your lists and drive-by degradations.

No such thing as a "former" Marine...they don't exist!

A quote from the Commandant, General James F. Amos:

"A Marine is a Marine. I set that policy two weeks ago - there's no such thing as a former Marine. You're a Marine, just in a different uniform and you're in a different phase of your life. But you'll always be a Marine because you went to Parris Island, San Diego or the hills of Quantico. There's no such thing as a former Marine."

http://www.marines.mil/unit/hqmc/cmc/Do ... 0FINAL.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...what did you say about ignorance again....of course some are just devilpups with no teeth or brains!

....a little devildog imperial storm trooper porn!

The Warrior Song - Hard Corps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sam4lq2W ... ture=email" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...small world on here....LeeUniverse is devilpup, conservative, republican, and caught up in the left vs. right - like pharisees and sadducees....and just wonderful irony that the two of you share such similar ideology, word choices, sentence structure....need I go on. Remember....honesty is the best policy.....and what we do in life - echoes for an eternity!!!

Also fascinating that you know him so well since he was banned before you joined! Have to ask Brian to check your IP address....