Abdicating our Freedom online

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MercynGrace
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Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by MercynGrace »

The internet is something of a sociological petri dish and I find it fascinating and educational to watch how people interact in groups online. The dynamics that develop, the cults of personality that emerge, the way thinking among groups is shaped, it's all just amazing.

There's one phenomena that occurs repeatedly online where like minded people gather on message boards, chat groups, or even newspaper comment sections that undermines freedom and can even profoundly affect our perception of the world, the lens through which we process information, and our ability to think independently. This phenomena is the creation of a "media echo chamber".
The term "media echo chamber" can refer to any situation in which information, ideas or beliefs are amplified or reinforced by transmission inside an "enclosed" space. Observers of journalism in the mass media describe an echo chamber effect in media discourse.[1][2] One purveyor of information will make a claim, which many like-minded people then repeat, overhear, and repeat again (often in an exaggerated or otherwise distorted form)[3] until most people assume that some extreme variation of the story is true.[4]

Similarly, the term is also used to name the media effect, whereby an incorrect story (often a "smear") is reported through a biased channel, often first appearing in a new-media domain, and it is this simple presence of a story which is reported in more reputable mainstream media outlets, often using intermediary sources or commentary for reference, independent of the factual merits of the story. The overall effect often is to legitimize false claims in the public eye, through sheer volume of reporting and media references, even if the majority of these reports acknowledge the original factual inaccuracy of the story.

Regarding this condition arising in online communities, participants may find their own opinions constantly echoed back to them, and in doing so reinforce a certain sense of truth that resonates with individual belief systems. This can create some significant challenges to critical discourse within an online medium. The echo-chamber effect may also impact a lack of recognition to large demographic changes in language and culture on the Internet if individuals only create, experience and navigate those online spaces that reinforce their "preferred" world view.[5] Another emerging term used to describe this "echoing" and homogenizing effect on the Internet within social communities is "cultural tribalism".[6] The Internet may also be seen as a complex system (e.g., emergent, dynamic, evolutionary), and as such, will at times eliminate the effects of positive feedback loops (i.e., the echo-chamber effect) to that system, where a lack of perturbation to dimensions of the network, prohibits a sense of equilibrium to the system. Complex systems that are characterized by negative feedback loops will create more stability and balance during emergent and dynamic behaviour.
When, for example, a forum owner or moderator bans anyone who disagrees with them, or even when members of a message board are so like minded that they shout down any dissent, what emerges is a distorted view of reality and of the validity of the dominant opinion of that particular group.

I appreciate Brian allowing people on this board to disagree with him and with each other and I apppreciate the voices which disagree with me because they cause me to think and rethink my positions and to analyze and reconfirm with the Lord those ideas I have which may not be perfectly aligned with His mind and will. I also appreciate those people who have the courage to voice dissent in threads here where the issues are raised rather than addressing them on a separate message board where they know they will generate sycophantic support rather than considered and respectful challenges.

Thanks to all those who make this forum more than an echo chamber. And here's to a New Year of learning, sharing, and growing toward our shared goals!

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

Thanks MercynGrace. :D That's a fantastic quote. Could you let me know where you got it from? I believe your observations are very important and worth pondering further.
I appreciate Brian allowing people on this board to disagree with him and with each other and I apppreciate the voices which disagree with me because they cause me to think and rethink my positions and to analyze and reconfirm with the Lord those ideas I have which may not be perfectly aligned with His mind and will.

I must say that shows a great deal of maturity on your part. :)

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MercynGrace
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by MercynGrace »

I just cut & pasted the quote from wiki but "echo chamber" is a fairly common term used to describe online group dynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_chamber_(media)

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

Thanks! I'd never heard of the term before.

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Songbird
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by Songbird »

Nice post..Well said!

Squally
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by Squally »

The other side of a great forum, is that you are given the opportunity to learn and progress with others around you (if humble) while being open to new opportunities for learning & growth, while seeking to understand your own viewpoints better or change them if incorrect. Doesn't necessarily happen this way, but the opportunity is available. Yes, it takes true humility to always be in a learning mode. Our own pride stops our progression; when we think we already know and have it all nailed down. Sometimes we are forced to learn new things through experiences and affliction that force our eyes to open and our minds to become maleable again. How much better when we are always open to the spiritual truths all around us, even when perchance one of these might cause us to have to rethink our understanding and even change the way we see the world around us. For example, I believe this forum helps us to distance ourselves from setting our heart upon the babylonian world around us. It helps us see through it, and realize the babylon foundation is actually made of blowing sands being moved about about by satan, and his armies. There is only one eternal immovable unshakeable foundation. Christ.

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

The other side of a great forum, is that you are given the opportunity to learn and progress with others around you (if humble) while being open to new opportunities for learning & growth, while seeking to understand your own viewpoints better or change them if incorrect. Doesn't necessarily happen this way, but the opportunity is available. Yes, it takes true humility to always be in a learning mode. Our own pride stops our progression; when we think we already know and have it all nailed down. Sometimes we are forced to learn new things through experiences and affliction that force our eyes to open and our minds to become maleable again. How much better when we are always open to the spiritual truths all around us, even when perchance one of these might cause us to have to rethink our understanding and even change the way we see the world around us. For example, I believe this forum helps us to distance ourselves from setting our heart upon the babylonian world around us. It helps us see through it, and realize the babylon foundation is actually made of blowing sands being moved about about by satan, and his armies. There is only one eternal immovable unshakeable foundation. Christ.
Wow. Beautifully said, Squally. :D

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

I've been doing a bit of research into this concept of a media echo chamber, and here's an article I found that was quite interesting:
Fox News, the White House, and the Dangers of Only Listening to Opinions Like Your Own
Wednesday October 28, 2009

The Fox News-White House fracas raises issues aplenty about objectivity and fairness, especially at the cable networks. The Obama administration was clumsy in its attempt to single out Fox, but its larger point is well taken: Fox News (and MSNBC for that matter) are many things, but fair and balanced isn't one of them.

But there's another, more disturbing aspect to this: The tendency of more and more news consumers to tune in only the coverage and commentary they agree with.

This isn't theorizing on my part. A study done at Ohio State University found that people spent 36 percent more time reading articles that agreed with their point of view than they did reading text that challenged their opinions.

"We found that people generally chose media messages that reinforced their own preexisting views," said Silvia Knobloch-Westerwick, co-author of the study. "In general, they don't want their views to be challenged by seriously considering other viewpoints."

The result? A decline in informed opinion formation, a more polarized and fragmented electorate, and reduced political tolerance, the researchers say.

In other words, right-wingers watch Fox, lefties choose MSNBC, and they're all living in an echo chamber that reinforces the views they already hold.

But it's the echo chamber that people seem to love. Fox News and opinion shows like "Glenn Beck" bring home ratings gold, while the newsier CNN's ratings are in the tank.

Jill Geisler, who teaches management and leadership skills at the Poynter Institute, a journalism training center, says the splintering of the once-monolithic news media has only aided this all-too human tendency.

"There was a time when we tended to hear multiple sides to a story in the mainstream media," she says. "The effort was there in traditional newsrooms to vet for bias and fairness."

Now, she says, "It's so easy to set up your RSS feed on your web browser to keep you in touch with a world that reminds you everyday that the opinions you have are right. All you hear everyday is that your opinions are right.

"People are more able than ever to expose themselves to things selectively, to choose to hear only what they believe already," she adds.

The only problem is, when all we hear are opinions that echo our own, real thinking stops, and a kind of intellectual autopilot takes over. We stop questioning our own assumptions and biases, and become ever-more entrenched in our own partisan positions. Real dialog between people of differing viewpoints is replaced by rancor and shouting that sheds lots of heat but little light.


Sounds like an episode of "The O'Reilly Factor."
http://journalism.about.com/b/2009/10/2 ... ur-own.htm

Squally
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by Squally »

....when all we hear are opinions that echo our own, real thinking stops, and a kind of intellectual autopilot takes over. We stop questioning our own assumptions and biases, and become ever-more entrenched in our own partisan positions. Real dialog between people of differing viewpoints is replaced by rancor and shouting that sheds lots of heat but little light
Exactly! This thread topic is wonderful. Only if we truly seek to learn and stay humble will we even recognize when the above is happening.

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

....when all we hear are opinions that echo our own, real thinking stops, and a kind of intellectual autopilot takes over. We stop questioning our own assumptions and biases, and become ever-more entrenched in our own partisan positions. Real dialog between people of differing viewpoints is replaced by rancor and shouting that sheds lots of heat but little light
Exactly! This thread topic is wonderful. Only if we truly seek to learn and stay humble will we even recognize when the above is happening.
Unfortunately, very few people on this forum seem to care, judging by the relatively few numbers who have participated on this thread. It's like an elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. Their loss, I guess....

ndjili
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ndjili »

No I think many see that this thread is populated by those who had cried for the moderators to shut down subjects they felt uncomfortable with and maybe sense a little hipocracy.

Reminds me of a thread about santa where some had a different point of view about it and were called names and then accused of being the name callers.

It's like the kid who hits their brother and then cries to mommy that their bother hit him, they bat their eyes and act sweet and innocent and when the brother protests he is prideful and evil.

So over this place and all the hipocracy veiled in false humility.

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

No I think many see that this thread is populated by those who had cried for the moderators to shut down subjects they felt uncomfortable with and maybe sense a little hipocracy.
Ndjili, I challenge you to find a quote from any of the participants on this thread where they cried for the moderators to shut down others. I can tell you from my own perspective that I would do no such thing. People have asserted that I have done that in the past, but I have not. Even if I do not like what any poster has to say, I respect and defend their right to express their opinions. I do however see the need for moderators in order to protect people's rights such as the right to privacy and the right not to have to listen to profanity. I suggest you consider other people's perspectives a little more carefully before making assumptions. I don't believe in censorship.
Last edited by ChemtrailWatcher on January 13th, 2011, 4:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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ChelC
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChelC »

I read this quote a couple days ago:

"Any man who needs to surround himself with loyal acolytes doesn't really believe in himself," he would say. "And if he doesn't believe in himself, why should I?"

I think in some ways creating a bubble is okay, but when we're seeking truth sometimes we need to be introduced to another perspective. I've learned my best lessons from losing arguments.

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

I think in some ways creating a bubble is okay, but when we're seeking truth sometimes we need to be introduced to another perspective. I've learned my best lessons from losing arguments.
I like your perspective, ChelC. Yeah, you're right -- sometimes we do need a bubble around us, especially when we're feeling insecure and need some reassurance. (Which is human.)

ndjili
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ndjili »

Brian, go ahead, let the discussion on Satan and his minions and their devilish ways rage on, but then next time you or others consider accusing others of apostasy for not listening to the prophets, I would take a step back and remember Elder Ashton's talk and realize that you're doing the very thing he is counselling against.

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

Brian, go ahead, let the discussion on Satan and his minions and their devilish ways rage on, but then next time you or others consider accusing others of apostasy for not listening to the prophets, I would take a step back and remember Elder Ashton's talk and realize that you're doing the very thing he is counselling against.
Uh huh.... and please explain to me how that is saying that people should not have a right to express their opinions? That is asking people to question their points of view. Sorry, that's not censoring people. Come on!!! Can't you do better than that?

ndjili
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ndjili »

patriotsaint wrote:
MercynGrace wrote:
Mark wrote:
To each their own. Allow agency for people to learn whatever they choose.

Kathyn wrote:
None of us has to read anything we don't want to.
Absolutely agreed.
patriot saint wrote:
The one thing I would suggest then is to mark this forum differently so that those who are unaware recognize that these parts of the board are not really open to discussion or debate, rather they are platforms for Bella to present/teach. That should eliminate contraversy and discourage posters with dissenting opinions from expressing them on these threads.


In my opinion, those that don't want discussion or debate, but would like to hear Rosabella teach are welcome to visit her website. There is a place where she can determine if debate will be allowed or not.

Thankfully I don't think Brian would ever allow ideas/debate to be locked down in the manner suggested by MnG. If any of our positions are so fragile that they can't withstand a little debate, maybe we should take a long hard look at them.

Last edited by ndjili on January 13th, 2011, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

I can't answer for MercynGrace. I will let her answer for herself. But I suspect that you have misunderstood what she is trying to say.

The fact that she started this thread in the first place tells me that she believes very strongly in allowing for differences of opinion.

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MercynGrace
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by MercynGrace »

ndjili wrote:No I think many see that this thread is populated by those who had cried for the moderators to shut down subjects they felt uncomfortable with and maybe sense a little hipocracy.

Reminds me of a thread about santa where some had a different point of view about it and were called names and then accused of being the name callers.

It's like the kid who hits their brother and then cries to mommy that their bother hit him, they bat their eyes and act sweet and innocent and when the brother protests he is prideful and evil.

So over this place and all the hipocracy veiled in false humility.
njdili,

I have never asked for anyone to shut down subjects I was uncomfortable with. Not. Once.
I have never asked for anyone to be banned from this or any other forum or any thread within this or any other forum. Not. Once.
I have never reported anyone for disagreeing with me or for any other reason. Not. Once. (Except when there was a bunch of porn spam one evening.)
I have never suggested that anyone be stifled in their conversation. Not. Once.

I suggested that if the forum is in the business of providing platforms for individuals who can not handle or do not want to be disagreed with, then those areas of the forum should be adequately labeleed so as to avoid contention.

I believe in free speech. I am able to express my opinion without being insulting, name calling, or even using the ever popular eye rolling emoticon. I welcome critics because they show me where my thinking is flawed and where I need to work. Opposition in all things.

So ndjili, there is no hypocrisy behind my starting this thread and the fact that you don't understand what I post or my motivations is no excuse for bearing false witness against your neighbor.

You'll notice that in the numerous times we've disagreed, I have never questioned your motives or made personal insinuations about you.

ndjili
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ndjili »

Thankfully I don't think Brian would ever allow ideas/debate to be locked down in the manner suggested by MnG. If any of our positions are so fragile that they can't withstand a little debate, maybe we should take a long hard look at them.
Patriotsaint wrote this...I just copied it here.

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MercynGrace
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by MercynGrace »

And clearly didn't understand it.

ndjili,
Stifling speech is not the same as designating certain avenues inappropriate for discussion. Do you consider sacrament meeting a stifling of free speech just because we discourage the congregants from conversing back and forth with the speaker?

Not only have you mischaracterized me, you have clearly misunderstood my position in its entirety. I can only presume you didn't read the thread from which you are posting quotes. Actually, I don't have to presume. You posted a complaint that no one disagrees with the predominant position of truthers on this forum even though ChelC registered a complaint in the very thread where you complained. Then when I pointed that out, you deleted your post.

You really should read the thread. I never suggested locking down debate. The fact that you have to copy Patriotsaint's interpretation of my words rather than my own is very telling. My words are as follows:
The one thing I would suggest then is to mark this forum differently so that those who are unaware recognize that these parts of the board are not really open to discussion or debate, rather they are platforms for Bella to present/teach. That should eliminate contraversy and discourage posters with dissenting opinions from expressing them on these threads.

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

The thing about this topic is that it's something we ALL can learn from. It applies to all sorts of aspects of our participation on this and any other online forum. All of us are susceptible to this way of approaching the world around us. It feels safe. It's a very natural thing to do. Of course, most of us who are LDS don't believe that truth is changeable (or at least shouldn't), but we still need to keep an open mind about what that truth really is. Sometimes we might discover that our perceptions were slightly off from what the Saviour or the prophets have taught. When we're talking about grey areas, then I believe there's all sorts of room for differing ideas and opinions. We don't have to agree with someone for the most part, but if we truly listen to what that person is trying to say, we can usually find at least a snippet of truth in what they're trying to convey.

Like Squally said, if we're truly humble, we'll take that snippet of truth and learn something from it. If we continually choose to dismiss people entirely because we believe their opinions are "off the wall," then we will lose out on much IMO.

I sincerely doubt that MercynGrace started this thread for the purpose of an immature, tit-for-tat cat fight. The message is WAY more important and deeper than that.

katmr
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by katmr »

I sincerely doubt that MercynGrace started this thread for the purpose of an immature, tit-for-tat cat fight. The message is WAY more important and deeper than that.[/quote]


I agree and I doubt that the thread was started for that reason either but sadly it feels like it's turned into one. :(

Sometimes when reading these posts it feels like rather than really trying to listen and understand what each other is trying to say, people are more concerned about who's in the right or who's right.

I do appreciate the topic thread and I learn from others with different opinions as well. Thank you everyone for posting your thoughts and allowing me to learn from you.

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

If we continually choose to dismiss people entirely because we believe their opinions are "off the wall," then we will lose out on much IMO.
I will admit that I have done this in the past. There have been individuals on here that I must admit I had a strong dislike for. These individuals have been banned from the forum (at least temporarily, that I know of). Mentally, I had a rather surprising reaction when they were removed from the forum (very surprising to me at least). Instead of thinking, "Yeah! I'm glad to see them go! Good riddance!", I actually had these thoughts going through my head: "What? Wait a minute.... Was that really fair? I'm going to miss them," etc. I realized that I had actually acquired a respect for them for having a different approach and personality than mine. I had begun to appreciate them for their candour and honesty and for their strength and courage. It really made me rethink the opinion that I had initially formed of them.

I think that experience among other experiences I have had on here have taught me a lot about being more open to others' viewpoints and appreciating differences in personality as well.

SAM
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by SAM »

This is a really interesting concept (and maybe I just think that because I studied a lot of things along this line in school). This could explain why there are some on this forum who take criticism of their ideas (and I am not calling out any one person because I've seen it witih a number of posters during my 2+ years time here) very personally and get offended more easily than others. I think most of us have initially come to and continued reading this forum because we've found a body of people who believe in what the mainstream would consider some pretty quirky ideas regarding gov't, conspiracy, etc. We find this place a safehaven where we can discuss our points of view more openly and we don't expect so much criticism. We get enough of that with all those around us who think our way of thinking is out there. When we start to participate more habitually here, we'll often find our ideas challenged which can be difficult to take when we come as a place to escape from everyone else who already thinks we're crazy.

That being said, I am all for an open exchange of ideas. I am a junky for forums, newspaper comments, letters to the editor, etc. I have always been fascinated with varied opinions and ideas. I don't believe we should stifle those. We would be do well, as members of this forum, and the world at large, to allow others' their opinions without it threatening us when theirs differs from ours. This little freedom forum is a bubble in a lot of ways and we are very prone to the echo chamber. Most of us probably think far more similarly than we do differently, but oh the things we can learn from the subtle differences we do have with each other. Let's take a step back and learn from one another rather than take offense or bicker. Thanks, MnG for bringing this concept to our attention.

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