Abdicating our Freedom online

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mattctr
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by mattctr »

This is a great thinking group, but there is some group think.
As far as I'm concerned, the positive (what I learn from various threads) far outweighs the negative (occasional in-fighting, pride, personal attacks, etc.).
As for the forum, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

As for the forum, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Okay... but is anyone here on this thread saying to do that? I know I have stated my desire to leave the forum several times on other threads (for VARIOUS reasons), but I have also admitted that I can't seem to stay away. :lol:

Yes, there is definitely a lot of positive things about this forum. No doubt about that.

I also seriously doubt that this thread is meant to be a whining session, so please don't dismiss the message for that reason either.

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mattctr
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by mattctr »

ChemtrailWatcher wrote:
mattctr wrote:As for the forum, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Okay... but is anyone here on this thread saying to do that? Nope, it appears my comment was the only one that even implied that as an option. :lol: ...
I also seriously doubt that this thread is meant to be a whining session, so please don't dismiss the message for that reason either. Point taken. Other than a little quarreling back and forth in the middle there, I've really enjoyed what people have had to say.
Thanks for helping me reflect on what I had typed. Sorry to interrupt the discussion with my own display of weakness. :oops:

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

Hey, no problem mattctr! :D You had every right to express your feelings, I had a right to challenge what you wrote, and you showed humility which impresses me greatly!

If you change your mind tomorrow and tell me I'm full of hot air, that's OK too. :wink: I have learned that sometimes candor is a good thing. Not always pleasant, but sometimes necessary.

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creator
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by creator »

"Media Echo Chamber"... good stuff...

You all make this forum so much fun for me! It's good to laugh... have fun... and discuss important topics :)

speaking of contention, I hope everyone on this forum has a reset button :) Mine works nicely... you can borrow it if you want... actually I might even have some extras lying around somewhere.

"What is this reset button you speak of?", you ask.

"It's more than just a reset button! It allows you to not get offended by what others write on the forum (even when they have just personally attacked you and slandered your good name like road kill on a remote desert highway)... It's also an instant forgiveness button. Hold it down for 5 seconds and you don't even remember what just happened! Hold it down for 3 seconds and you'll have the ability to realize that this is just an online forum after all, 1's and 0's, it's not even real - it is, but it isn't. Press the button twice really fast and you'll also realize that usually what you think other people think is a lie..."

"Say what?!"

"Yes, that's right. What you think other people think is usually a lie. How you interpret what someone else wrote is not necessarily how they intended it to be interpreted. In other words, don't read too much into what people write on a discussion forum, don't jump to conclusions, and simply choose not to be offended."

"WOW!, what else does the reset button do?"

"I could go on and on, the manual is thick!"

"Oooh!, where can I get a manual for my reset button?"

"Get up out of your chair, go towards your front door, open it, and take a step outside. It's best to do this during the day, when the sun is shining with just a slight breeze, now take a deep breath and relax. Next, go for a walk."

"But what about the manual?"

Shimdidly
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by Shimdidly »

I was asked to copy and paste this, a post I originally made in another thread, into this thread:

"I really have to say that it is a relief that there aren't codified rules here. On top of that, freedom of expression, even if it gets heated, is fostered here. That is something I really, really appreciate. Many other forums have strict rules and too many moderators for each board. A community develops a "culture" and typically any thread created that is foreign or seems radical to the culture of the board is locked by the moderators.

The only issue I ever saw here out of the ordinary was that of Wikiwajio, I still don't know what got him banned. He seemed very passionate about his beliefs, nothing incriminating was ever observed by me."

Ironically, I made this statement before ever reading this thread, and it was very surprising because I thought I was the only one that noticed this phenomenon. The forum I always think of in relation to this is, zybez.net/community. I remember posting a thread there about Nazis using fluoride in concentration camps; the 2nd reply was a rebuttal, basically saying, "since I can't find this in any peer-reviewed journal, it isn't true, and you're an idiot." What followed was everyone else thanking him for "clearing that up" and ridiculed my post. It was locked after about 15 unsubstantial replies.

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

Brian, I like your humour. :D

Shimdidly, thanks for your thoughts too. :D

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MercynGrace
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by MercynGrace »

ChemtrailWatcher wrote:I sincerely doubt that MercynGrace started this thread for the purpose of an immature, tit-for-tat cat fight. The message is WAY more important and deeper than that.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I certainly did not. It's something that has been on my mind for quite some time and I was trying to get this point across in another thread but that thread went personal and I didn't want an important topic to get lost or misconstrued so I started fresh. In retrospect, I probably should've waited a few days before starting this thread because it seems that at least one person (and if there's one there's more) took the thread other than how I intended.

Timing has never been my strong suit.

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7cylon7
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by 7cylon7 »

You already posted this a long time ago and it died a natural death now you bring it up again on a totally new post. Total unneccassary. I question your purpose in posting this again. Go read the discussion you first posted only a month ago.

If you think this is only an echo chamber then why are you here? What is your purpose in read these post? Are you trying to shut down the free exchange of ideas by saying all posters just want to hear only their own views and anyone that has an opposite view will be socially ridiculed out of the forum. Please. I think your have fallen into a trap of the person who wrote the article as I see it main purpose of trying to convience people not to go to forums and post your ideas because if you do then you are only a human cow trying to fit into the crowd. Please echo me. I find the article to be inflamatory and rediculously based on a false premise. Echoing has its purpose and can be used for the greater good or for the greater evil like anything else in this world. It all depends on your attitude and point of view.

Are you going to post this again in another month....

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ChelC
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChelC »

7cylon7- surely you jest. You simply must see the irony in your above post.

ndjili
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ndjili »

I agree 7cyclon7. I will keep bringing it up, for it is where many who post on this thread began some personal attacks on other for a simple difference of opinion. The santa thread. There were some with a mere difference of opinion. Imedietly the ones with the different that socially acceptable opinion were made fun of, called names starting with santa haters...and later when some of us were trying to explain our side were told to quit bullying in what's the word..kindness?? I'll go look up the direct quote..What does thqat even mean? Being a bully for having a difference of opinion? From there it spread to other threads where many made false accusations about peoples research only being about dark things and Satan and saying that they are akin to smeone who reads pron to warn people of porn. It feels that when one has a difference of opinion that there seems..I say seems as it seems that way to me...I cant say how other see it...I'm not meaning this mean but trying to understand....that if one doesnt agree with people like mercyngrace for example..that one hears well you need to get the Spirit and pray about this topic more...inferring that the person with a difference of opinion does not have the Spirit and hasnt prayed on the subject of which they are speaking about. Chemtrail this statement you made on the ultra mormon thread seems contradictory to me
Report this postReply with quoteRe: ultra-Mormons & President Benson
by ChemtrailWatcher » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:35 pm

Thanks for your response, Mullenite.


The question as to who is an apostate today and who is not is a difficult issue. I don’t think it can be automatically associated with either the social Mormons or the ultra-Mormons. There are apostates in each group – both among those who don’t say or do enough as well as among those who say or do too much. Both are problems and both can be damaging to our progress in the gospel.

I agree with this!! I have to say, though, that I feel uncomfortable with this idea of a spectrum with "social Mormons" on one end and "ultra-Mormons" on the other. I have never heard of the term "ultra-Mormon" before and it brings up all sorts of bad connotations for me. I'm not trying to accuse you of anything, and I apologize if I've offended you in any way, but I have to say that I have a very bad taste in my mouth from some people on this forum who see themselves as teachers and preachers to the "unenlightened". It makes me sick. While we are called to be teachers, we are also here on this earth to be learners. I see some who like to force-feed others. I don't care if it's milk or meat -- when we force-feed others on a continual basis, we lost balance. I tend to admire those who feed others with their own supply of knowledge, but also acknowledge that they have much to learn from others as well. I think a faithful Mormon is one who is able to maintain a balance between understanding greater truths that they are privy to and also finding the greater truths in people who might have a different approach or different attitudes. To me, a truly faithful Mormon tends not to make these sweeping generalizations about other people's faithfulness. Am I making any sense here?
You make some dare I say assumptions about some people on this forum and then say a faithful mormon wouldnt do that?

I admit being fed up quite frankly and it is showing in many post all over this board at present as I am finding many who are again I'm not writing this in a mean way...please do not take it as such...I'm trying to understand...lets say ganging up on those on certain threads with a difference of opinion...to which those with the difference of opinion feel they must band together to defend themselves.

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ChelC
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChelC »

Ndjili - What upset you so about the Santa thread? The way I see it, I was called a liar, not Christian, and told I was harming my children because we include Santa in our traditions, yet it is you who is upset. On the fushigi thread I expressed my personal opinion which was not inflammatory and your reply was first an eyeroll and then that my opinion was "lame" I believe was the word you used.

If you can't see any unkindness in the way you've responded to people here what can I say?

ndjili
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ndjili »

I never called you a liar but was accused of doing so and still am.After trying to nicely explain how I do it I got
I like Santa. I AM NOT abusing, mistreating, or leading my children astray. As I read in a book today, "Don't bully me with your politeness".


I did an eyeroll ona thread and think not believing in magic..as satans power is lame...not you personally...As you have eyerolled me and not liked things I've said but I'm finding that a certain group getting called out personally for a difference of opinion. Why?

I like much of your sarcasm and wit chelc but there are times lately you have gotten personal...and then wonder why people get frustrated.

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ChelC
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChelC »

That quote above was a general quote. If you read the entire thread, you'll see Rob thought it was directed at him and I clarified myself. Earlier in the thread someone commented that I sounded like a fun Mom and you got pretty defensive and said that to be a fun Mom one has to be a liar- which both insinuate that I AM a liar and take a comment to me as something personal against you. Did you read what actually was said about people who include Santa on the first two pages if that thread?

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MercynGrace
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by MercynGrace »

7cylon7 wrote:You already posted this a long time ago and it died a natural death now you bring it up again on a totally new post. Total unneccassary. I question your purpose in posting this again. Go read the discussion you first posted only a month ago.

If you think this is only an echo chamber then why are you here? What is your purpose in read these post? Are you trying to shut down the free exchange of ideas by saying all posters just want to hear only their own views and anyone that has an opposite view will be socially ridiculed out of the forum. Please. I think your have fallen into a trap of the person who wrote the article as I see it main purpose of trying to convience people not to go to forums and post your ideas because if you do then you are only a human cow trying to fit into the crowd. Please echo me. I find the article to be inflamatory and rediculously based on a false premise. Echoing has its purpose and can be used for the greater good or for the greater evil like anything else in this world. It all depends on your attitude and point of view.

Are you going to post this again in another month....
7cylcon7,
I'm not sure who you are addressing here but if it's me, I believe you are mistaken. Please provide a link to where I posted this before. CFR.
Thanks,
MnG

PS You are mistaken. Nevermind on the CFR. I just searched for the term "echo chamber" with my name as the author and came up with 3 hits all to this thread which means I have not, in fact, posted this here before.

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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by creator »

7cylon7 wrote:You already posted this a long time ago and it died a natural death now you bring it up again on a totally new post. Total unneccassary. I question your purpose in posting this again. Go read the discussion you first posted only a month ago.
MnG, I'm glad you started this discussion on "media echo chambers"... I was familiar with such things going on but not the term "media echo chamber"... an educational thread, I say.

Also, this very discussion has proved that the LDS Freedom Forum is not an echo chamber... yes, there are many common beliefs we all share because of our common link to the Gospel and Church of Jesus Christ and being Liberty-minded, but the great thing is we all have different understandings, we are all at different levels on different things, and we come from different backgrounds and experiences, all of which contribute to this forum not being a complete media echo chamber (I say that with confidence because I've experienced others forums that are definitely more of an echo chamber, which was one of the reasons I created this forum - to get away from that).

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MercynGrace
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by MercynGrace »

Thanks, Brian, for the most part I agree which is why I stated as much in the opening post. It's intersting to note that this isn't a new phenomena. Consider how the Jews reacted when Stephen testified before them, Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord.

There's no reason to stop up our ears when we encounter someone who disagrees with us and there's certainly no reason to stone them, even if words are our only weapons. In fact, the sole message uttered by the Holy Ghost in scripture consists of an admonition to be open to input. He warned "Harden not your hearts as in the day of provocation."

Soft hearts allow us to hear what goes unsaid and unwritten. Soft hearts allows us to receive instruction from the Spirit rather than taking a defensive position to defend what we think we know. Soft hearts allow us to love even those who persecute us and to seek to save even those who would destroy us.

More for me to work on :wink:

Shimdidly
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by Shimdidly »

I admit that a large portion of threads I've created here was for, in part, the purpose of preaching to the choir and having my beliefs validated. So in that sense I suppose I cannot say this forum is free from some of the characteristics of an echo chamber, but what forum is? The fundamental difference here, is that differing views are acknowledged as a person's right to say by the existing authority at LDSFF, and the community is understanding and, for the most part, noninflammatory to views that are "radical" to us.

With that said, we've still got a long way to go. The biggest improvement that needs to be made is the community. Fortunately, we all probably have the gospel as our background, so we all know the proper way to gently persuade, be longsuffering, and offer discourse that is meaningful and edifying.

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

[quoteChemtrail this statement you made on the ultra mormon thread seems contradictory to me

Quote:
Report this postReply with quoteRe: ultra-Mormons & President Benson
by ChemtrailWatcher » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:35 pm

Thanks for your response, Mullenite.


The question as to who is an apostate today and who is not is a difficult issue. I don’t think it can be automatically associated with either the social Mormons or the ultra-Mormons. There are apostates in each group – both among those who don’t say or do enough as well as among those who say or do too much. Both are problems and both can be damaging to our progress in the gospel.

I agree with this!! I have to say, though, that I feel uncomfortable with this idea of a spectrum with "social Mormons" on one end and "ultra-Mormons" on the other. I have never heard of the term "ultra-Mormon" before and it brings up all sorts of bad connotations for me. I'm not trying to accuse you of anything, and I apologize if I've offended you in any way, but I have to say that I have a very bad taste in my mouth from some people on this forum who see themselves as teachers and preachers to the "unenlightened". It makes me sick. While we are called to be teachers, we are also here on this earth to be learners. I see some who like to force-feed others. I don't care if it's milk or meat -- when we force-feed others on a continual basis, we lost balance. I tend to admire those who feed others with their own supply of knowledge, but also acknowledge that they have much to learn from others as well. I think a faithful Mormon is one who is able to maintain a balance between understanding greater truths that they are privy to and also finding the greater truths in people who might have a different approach or different attitudes. To me, a truly faithful Mormon tends not to make these sweeping generalizations about other people's faithfulness. Am I making any sense here?


You make some dare I say assumptions about some people on this forum and then say a faithful mormon wouldnt do that?
I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you're saying to me, Ndjili. I truly believe and stand by what I wrote here. I also made no claims that I happen to be one of those "perfectly faithful" Mormons. I aint perfect by any means, but I believe my heart is in the right place. I think what happened before is someone took an analogy that I had used and blew it completely out of proportion and took it as a personal accusation rather than a questioning of their choice of topic of research and their methods. Anyone who claims to be a true scholar or even "expert" of any area of research must be able to handle all types of feedback, questioning, and even some criticism without taking it personally. Have you ever heard of peer-review, Ndjili? It's all about getting down to the nitty-gritty, and while it's not always pleasant, I'm sure most scholars find it useful. Ask Dr. Jones -- I'm sure he can tell you all about it. Graduate school definitely has its benefits -- you have to be prepared to defend your thesis to all sorts of people.

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis
A dissertation or thesis[1] is a document submitted in support of candidature for a degree or professional qualification presenting the author's research and findings.[2] In some countries/universities, the word thesis or a cognate is used as part of a bachelor's or master's course, while dissertation is normally applied to a doctorate, whilst, in others, the reverse is true.
The term dissertation can at times be used to describe a treatise without relation to obtaining an academic degree. The term thesis is also used to refer to the central claim of an essay or similar work.
The word "thesis" comes from the Greek θέσις, meaning "position", and refers to an intellectual proposition. "Dissertation" comes from the Latin dissertātiō, meaning "discourse."

Presentation style and structure

A typical thesis has a title page, an abstract, a table of contents, a body, comprising the various chapters, and a bibliography or (more usually) a references section.
Dissertations vary in their structure in accord with the many different areas of study (arts, humanities, social sciences, technology, etc.) and the great differences between them. Dissertations normally report on a research project of some kind, and the structure nearly always reflects this by a) introducing the research topic, with an explanation of why the subject was chosen for study, b) reviewing relevant literature and showing how this has informed the research issue, c) explaining how the research has been designed and why the research methods being used have been chosen, d) outlining the findings, e) analysing the findings and discussing them in the context of the literature review, and f) concluding.


If someone is going to write a book, they had better be prepared for all types of feedback. And on certain controversial subjects, I have a feeling some of that feedback from the general public will be anything but pretty. (Unless you just go in with the attitude that the general public are all "lost" or "deceived" and are going to hell, so there's no need to listen to them anyway). I believe this is a "safer" forum than many others out there, so perhaps we should count ourselves lucky to have some fairly like-minded people here. The kind of criticism you find here is nothing compared to what you will find elsewhere.

And you talk about assumptions Ndjili. I have been what some might say a very "faithful disciple" of a certain person who shall not be named for a little under a year now and studied a fair bit under this person's "tutelage." I have observed a fair bit over this period. I began to observe some things that disturbed me (almost right from the beginning), but I continued give this person a great deal of my respect and appreciation. About a month ago, I began to see that some of my worries might have some truth to them and I began to question my own attitudes as well. When I began to consider other people's points of view more carefully, I began to see things in a different light and realize that things are not always so black and white. Ndjili, am I allowed to question my "discipleship" or must I follow blindly? You might laugh at (or be offended by) my use of the word "disciple," but that's almost how it feels. You might call it an "attack," but it's truly not meant to be. I'm really not a "vicious" person, but I am human. You might think (along with that someone else who will not be named) that I have gone to the "dark side," (as I believe has been joked about me) but I assure you I have not.

Squally
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by Squally »


This is an example of a non-echo chamber

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

This is an example of a non-echo chamber
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I love that skit. Those guys are brilliant. :lol: :lol: :lol:

ChemtrailWatcher
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by ChemtrailWatcher »

Thinking more about 7cyclon7's post, I believe he may have been referring to a thread I started on December 4, called "The Doctrine of Inclusion." Here's the link:
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 14&t=15178

It's not specifically about media echo chambers, but I think it's definitely related. It's about creating unity in diversity. Something ALL of us can learn and try to apply to a greater degree in our interactions (myself included.)

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AussieOi
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Re: Abdicating our Freedom online

Post by AussieOi »

how does anyone find the time?

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